Dominion Failed Us

[tecelote]

They had an opportunity to hold FOX accountable but instead took the money and ran.

FOX is sharing this statement with their viewers:
“We are pleased to have reached a settlement of our dispute with Dominion Voting Systems. We acknowledge the Court’s rulings finding certain claims about Dominion to be false. This settlement reflects FOX’s continued commitment to the highest journalistic standards. We are hopeful that our decision to resolve this dispute with Dominion amicably, instead of the acrimony of a divisive trial, allows the country to move forward from these issues.”

They ran this full page ad in the NYT:
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA19YA2z.img

Their viewers will believe they won and, therefore, that the election was stolen.

Plus, the fines will probably be paid by their insurance company (I assume)

Sad.

[Phoenix61]

1. Oh please! They filed a lawsuit against Fox seeking

damages to make themselves whole. They got what they sued for. They aren’t a Social Justice anything.

[tecelote]

3. Yeah. I get it.

So does Smartmatic...


Ben Smith
@semaforben
·
12h
Statement from Smartmatic lawyer Erik Connolly: “Dominion’s litigation exposed some of the misconduct and damage caused by Fox’s disinformation campaign. Smartmatic will expose the rest. 1/2
Ben Smith
@semaforben
·
12h
Smartmatic remains committed to clearing its name, recouping the significant damage done to the company, and holding Fox accountable for undermining democracy.” 2/2

[Rhiannon12866]

16. Here's the last news item I posted about Smartmatic:

From March 14th:

Smartmatic (Voting Machine Company) Defamation Lawsuit Approved For Trial - Raw News And Politics

The New York Supreme Court refused to dismiss the Smartmatic defamation lawsuit against FOX News, some of its hosts, and one attorney for Donald Trump. - 03/14/2023.

[tecelote]

19. Thanks!

Fox needs to tell their viewers that the election was not stolen.

Without that, Dominion and Smartmatic may get money, but their reputation will not be restored.

[Rhiannon12866]

24. You're right about that and that's a disappointment.

Part of the settlement should have been Fox was required to tell their viewers the truth, but I know I'm tilting at windmills. But unless we get rid of the lies and propaganda, we're going to continue to experience more anger and violence and attempts to steal elections. Of course, getting rid of the guy who started it all would accomplish the same thing - but even so it's going to take a long time, maybe a generation. If only he'd been removed after the first impeachment we'd have a start. *sigh*

[tecelote]

26. Yes. *sigh* :(

I want to take this opportunity to Thank You for your posts.

I'm a big fan!

[Rhiannon12866]

27. Awww, thanks so much! I never know, videos don't get that much attention

But I know that not everyone stays up as late as I do - or even has TV. And back atcha!

[claudette]

29. Fox viewers

will not believe it. Winning the money PROVES that Fox lied

[inthewind21]

82. Oh please again

If you think for one second Smartmatic wouldn't settle as well you are mistaken and likely to be disappointed again.

[Dorian Gray]

22. This x1000

They did right by their company, which is what they were in this for.

I know we are all disappointed bc we want Fox to be held accountable, but Dominion did right by Dominion.

[treestar]

33. Exactly

And Faux admits wrongdoing here.

[Straw Man]

2. It wasn't their job ...

... to save democracy. This was a civil suit to redress damage done to their company's reputation.

[tecelote]

4. Sure. But they had an opportunity to hold FOX accountable for more than cash.

Smartmatic remains committed to clearing its name, recouping the significant damage done to the company, and holding Fox accountable for undermining democracy.

They get it.

I realize we no longer expect corporations to have a conscience - it's not like corporations are people.

[Straw Man]

5. Dominion is a business.

As such, their goal is to make money. They aren't a social justice organization, and it's unrealistic to expect them to act like one.

[tecelote]

8. A lot of republicans agree.

Why should corporations care about anything else?

I get it. Profit is the only goal.

There are better companies though.

Harvard Business Review:
Business is about more than just making a profit. Climate change, economic inequality, and other global challenges that impact communities worldwide have compelled companies to be purpose-driven and contribute to the greater good.

In a recent study by Deloitte, 93 percent of business leaders said they believe companies aren't just employers, but stewards of society. In addition, 95 percent reported they’re planning to take a stronger stance on large-scale issues in the coming years and devote significant resources to socially responsible initiatives. With more CEOs turning their focus to the long term, it’s important to consider what you can do in your career to make an impact.

https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/corporate-social-responsibility-examples

[Straw Man]

96. Not only Republicans.

They were faced with a choice; go to trial or take the money. Trials aren't without risk. It's one thing to take a social justice position when the risks are minimal or non-existent. If Dominion had lost this one in court, they would not have restored their damaged reputation, and they would have been on the hook for massive legal expenses.

We can expect companies like Dominion to be good corporate citizens. We can't expect them to risk capital on making a social justice statement.

[Doc Sportello]

62. Many corporations over the years have responed to social justice issues

Such as after the George Floyd killing. More than that, corporations are protected by this country's laws and security forces, so they benefit from government protections. Businesses are not some kind of entity that is separate from the bod politic. People who run them have the same kind of obligation to be good citiznes as any othe rperson. Using the kind of argument that "its just business so that justifies anything" is the same kind of amoral logic that libertarians use. And it's just as wrong for Democrats to use it.

[Straw Man]

92. A jury trial is not without risk.

Dominion's case was strong, but there was a more-than-zero possibility that they could have lost. Their reputation was severely damaged by the lies that Fox was spreading, and a loss in court could have meant the end of the company. It's one thing to take a stand for social justice when the downside is minimal or non-existent. It's another to risk your company's future on it.

They did the prudent thing, and it's unfair to blame them for it. Now let's see what the next lawsuit brings. I personally hope that Fox News suffers the thousand cuts that will eventually lead to their demise.

[Doc Sportello]

94. Did Dominion try to include an on-air apology

I don't blame them for not going to trial if Fox stood firm on not doing that. I don't know whether they did or not - and neither do you - so we don't know whether to blame them or not. And you don't know that a loss would doom their company, so you're assuming something that I doubt would happen because the lost a tough to prove defamation case. You also assume that their reputation was severely damaged enough to put them out of business. I've seen nothing about that. It's not unfair at all to question their decision. And, once again, the idea that companies can make money any way they want and owe nothing to the countries that they benefit from is just flat out wrong. That's libertarian "ethics".

[Straw Man]

95. Don't know.

Obviously no one knew what the outcome of the trial would be, nor what the future of the company would be. What we're talking about is managing risk. Dominion weighed the options and decided that settling would best serve their company's interests at this time.

And, once again, the idea that companies can make money any way they want and owe nothing to the countries that they benefit from is just flat out wrong. That's libertarian "ethics".

Please show me where I said anything remotely resembling that canard. That's one hell of a straw man you're building. (See what I did there?) Companies that operate legally and ethically, pay their taxes, and don't abuse their workers are giving what they owe to the countries that they benefit from. The notion that they should take a risky position in order to make a social-justice statement is beyond what we should expect, even from good corporate citizens. If they do it, kudos to them, but certainly they are under no obligation.

[womanofthehills]

93. I heard the Dominion guys had huge smiles on their face

Walking out of courthouse.

[Fullduplexxx]

31. And it's what dominion said they were going to do . They were not going to settle they were going

To hold fox accountable but in the end they took the money and ran

[treestar]

34. the only alternative would be take it to trial

where the jury might have well found Faux was not liable for the damages, or found fewer damages. You're putting too much into a civil verdict.

[Phoenix61]

38. I'm curious where you read Smartmatic is committed to

holding Fox accountable for undermining democracy. I tried to find it but haven’t had any luck.

[inthewind21]

83. It was one statement

Anyone who thinks Smartmatic will spend boat loads of $$ on litigation and turn down a multi million settlement solely to make a point is delusional.

[chillfactor]

6. Agreed!

I posted something similar earlier today and got hit for expressing my opinion. I guess our opinions don't fly on DU.

Thank you for your post!

[tecelote]

10. Nice to hear - thank you!

[RandySF]

7. Dominion didn't go to court for us.

[tecelote]

9. No. But they had an opportunity to do good.

They weren't obligated to. I know.

A lot of Americans were hoping they would care.

But, hey, profit over everything else has become the norm. We have to accept it.

It's been working out so well for us.

[claudette]

30. Dominion

DID good by suing Fox for lying and WINNING thé highest settlement in history

[treestar]

35. that wasn't even profit

a civil suit settlement is not making a profit. It's recouping losses. And one never knows what the jury would do. They'd have "failed us" more if the verdict was zero.

[Phoenix61]

39. A settlement guaranties payment. A jury trial best case

results in an award that Fox would appeal for as long as they could.

[treestar]

69. that too

and uses up judicial resources.

[quakerboy]

11. It seems like this is what capitalism is about

they sued for money. They got money.

Precious few folks would take a long court battle over the better part of a billion dollars. Fewer corporations.

[TexasTowelie]

12. Dominion Voting Systems is owned Staple Street Capital Group LLC, a private equity fund.

If Dominion Voting Systems had let the case proceed to trial and they lost on the final charge of malice, then the shareholders in that fund could have grounds to file their own set of lawsuits against the company.

There has always been a difference between what is moral and what is legal. While we hope that they align, the fiduciary interests of the business is to follow the law and create profit.

[betsuni]

14. One minute: Corporations corrupt, oligarchy, late stage capitalism, rigged, resistance is futile.

Next: Why didn't a corporation save us? Where are the heroes?

[Easterncedar]

44. Word

[yaesu]

13. Having the best government money can buy failed us otherwise Russia propaganda

Networks like fox wouldn't exist in this country.

[Deminpenn]

15. This lawsuit exposed FoxNews, Murdoch, its executives and hosts

to everyone outside the FoxNews viewing bubble as lying hypocrits interested only in the bottom line of revenue from viewership, not in journalism or news reporting.

Dominion probably could have settled earlier, but waiting until the trial was just an hour or so from starting allowed them to speak through their legal filings with depositions under oath supported by written and verbal communications found through the discovery process. Otherwise much of what most of us suspected was true would never have been pubiically confirmed.

Fox reportedly has 4B cash on hand, they had to pay out about 20% of it yesterday. Dominion has set up a roadmap for others to follow.

Dominions other targets don't have the same deep pockets as Fox Corp. They'll likely be bankrupted by whatever lawsuits Dominion brings against them. If Dominion bankrupts Mike Lindell, well, there goes a big FoxNews advertiser and revenue stream.

[malaise]

18. Great post n/t

[tecelote]

20. I agree with Malaise...

Great post

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. +1. . . . nt

[emulatorloo]

68. Great post.

[Deminpenn]

70. Thanks to all, but can't take 100% credit

That is what I inferred from what Dominion's lawyer said in the post-settlement presser.

It was also nice to hear O'Donnell make the same points to open his show last night.

[Lucinda]

90. +1

[malaise]

17. It is Fox that continues to fail you

That is all

[tecelote]

21. It is Fox that continues to fail our country.

[PJMcK]

53. Actually, it's Fox's viewers who fail Americans and the world

The foolish people swallow the BS that Fox broadcasts. They are the culprits who are undermining our country.

[inthewind21]

84. Bingo!

[Tetrachloride]

25. Regarding fiduciary responsibility, I believe Smartomatic can win

a massive settlement. This means going to trial in the biggest way. Increase the requested punitive damages to 8 billion.

[claudette]

28. They didn't

sue Fox for US. Dominion won the highest media settlement in history because Fox lied. It would have been sad if a jury made Fox win

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. No. Because of Dominion, Fox will never be able to say they don't lie. Anchor around their neck

Fox had it proven in court against them, but judge's ruling that they lied.

What Fox avoided was putting anchors on the stand to have to try to say, "I lied but I didn't do it with malice or reckless disregard for the truth". They would have lost that.

As it is Fox had to admit publicly they lie. And back it up with money.

[gibraltar72]

36. They wounded our enemy.

They weakened our enemy so others can see his vulnerabilities. I liked that they said more suits are coming. Who are they gonna sue, our enemies. And I love they can do it with house money. Truth be told 2% of Fox viewers would even care. They aren't there for facts.

[SKKY]

37. Yea, I think we all wanted Dominion to fight this until the very end...

...but they got what they wanted from Fox. And remember, they still have pending lawsuits against Newsmax, OANN, Rudy, and Crazy Sidney.

[sanatanadharma]

40. Talking point, "Fox paid hush money to hide their crimes"

Fox paid hush money to Dominion to assure Dominions silence about Fox criminality.

[dlk]

41. There seems to be wide misunderstanding of what a civil case is about

Of course, we wanted to see Rupert Murdoch, and others, on the witness stand; to see Fox dragged through the mud in the news, day after day, as they so richly deserve. That was never going to happen. Dominion is a business and their decision to settle the case was a business decision. That’s the nature of civil trials and this case was always going to be settled, the only questions being when, and for how much. The astronomical amount of the settlement demonstrates Fox’s deep fear of exposure. Dominion’s attorneys were able to uncover an enormous amount damaging evidence in their discovery.

Fox and the Murdochs need to be held accountable for the horrendous damage they have inflicted on America. Beyond a settlement in the stratosphere, Dominion was never going to give that to us.

[lastlib]

42. "We acknowledge the Court's rulings..."

That statement is tantamount to admitting that water is wet. Yes, Fox, the Court DID make rulings--tell us what they were! And tell us you AGREE with them!

F***ing shitstains.

[Scrivener7]

43. You're being dragged for saying this, but I agree with you.

Yes, Dominion was in this to make themselves whole and not to save Democracy.

Yes, they got a huge settlement. Yes that tells the rest of us what we already know: Fox is bullshit.

But it will have no impact whatsoever with the Fox viewers, and it has little impact on the financial health of Fox.

It would have been much more impactful if the settlement required the guilty talking heads to make a one minute statement at the top of their programs each night for a month correcting their statements on the "stolen election."

That's all I want. I want them to be required to tell their VIEWERS that they lied.

No, Dominion is not responsible for saving Democracy. But if you CAN save Democracy while you are getting your big settlement, why not just do that?

And in the absence of that, where do WE go to stop Fox from doing it again?

[tecelote]

48. Well said!

[onenote]

51. No way Fox would agree to such a thing. So then what? Dominion should risk losing?

No court was going to make Fox do what you want. And you, like so many posters here, apparently are assuming Dominion would have won had the case gone to trial. But no jury trial is ever a slam dunk. And while having Fox personalities grilled on the stand would have been great, we have their emails and those witnesses won't be in a position to make self-serving statements about the first amendment, opinion, blah blah blah.

It is critical that folks remember that during the trial Fox viewers would see and hear what Fox wanted them to hear and see. And even if Dominion won, Fox viewers would only hear and see what Fox wanted them to hear and see. No court was going to make Fox do what you and others want. And if Dominion lost -- imagine what Fox's viewers would hear and see then (and what the rest of the public would take away from a not guilty verdict or a reversal on appeal). That would have been a disaster.

So, in fact, Dominion's settlement was a win for them and for us. Fox can't walk away from the fact that they paid Dominion a significant sum and made at least a partial admission that they presented misinformation about the election. And we are spared the risk of an uncertain outcome and the potential for years of appeals before the final outcome of the case is known.

[Scrivener7]

60. Fox is reported to have added 250 million to the settlement between Monday and Tuesday.

We don't know what they would have agreed to if asked.

And I don't know where you are getting your information about my opinions from, but I never said anything about assuming Dominion would have won if they went to trial.

[onenote]

80. Okay, you weren't assuming Dominion would win.

But weren't you assuming that they had the leverage to make Fox give the concessions you wanted them to get from Fox? And doesn't that assumption have to factor in the odds of winning or losing? Even if Fox lost initially, it would be years before they might have to pay out and losing wouldn't have resulted in them making on-air pronouncements - Fox viewers would hear and see what Fox wants them to hear and see. Knowing that gave Fox a greater incentive to roll the dice than Dominion, for whom losing would be a major disaster, financially and from a public relations standpoint.

[Scrivener7]

81. Again, you are arguing against things in your head, not things in my words. Have a lovely day.

[GuppyGal]

57. +1000

[treestar]

71. you're assuming Faux would agree to that

as part of a settlement and that Dominion just walked away from it.

A civil jury verdict is just money. The civil jury cannot order Faux to make the statements you require.

[Scrivener7]

74. Again, I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that would have been a good thing.

I'm saying it would have had an important impact.

Fox upped their offer by 250 million overnight. We don't know what else they would have agreed to if asked.

And maybe they did ask. But maybe not. In any case, the millions of viewers are still free to have their bigotry shored up on a nightly basis by a company that is paid for by anyone who has cable.

And that's not a good thing.

[treestar]

75. what would move those viewers

is not easy to say, but that wouldn't necessarily do it.

[Scrivener7]

76. They would not be able to continue saying the election was rigged. There would

be grounds in every conversation to prove they are being lied to nightly.

It would have been more impactful than the lack of it.

[treestar]

77. they'd know they had to say that due to the settlement

and make them into victims of the "unfair" settlement. We know they are unmoored from reality.

[onenote]

85. "But if you CAN save Democracy while you are getting your big settlement, why not just do that"

That's from your post. It seems that you implicitly, if not explicitly, were assuming that Dominion could have saved Democracy by getting Fox to make additional concessions. But to make that assumption, one needs to weigh the relative leverage of the parties to the negotiation.

[Scrivener7]

86. I concede. I should never have expressed disappointment that Fox will not be made to tell

its viewers it lied to them. I should never have suggested that, if one can do good while pursuing business interests, one should.

It's very important that people project opinions onto me and parse my posts to within an inch of their lives to prove that to me.

What an awful thing I have done, expressing that opinion.

[doc03]

45. Dominion went after Faux for the money, that's all. nt

[Jirel]

46. WTF Did you think was going to happen?

Dominion wasn’t on a quest for truth. Dominion was in it for a whole pile of cash. They wanted Faux to STFU about their conspiracy theories that put Dominion in a bad light, and they got that, and the cash, and will do it again if Faux so much as peeps. I’m sure repeat behavior is in their settlement agreement.

They failed nobody. Why some people think Dominion was in it on some crusade to out Faux and destroy them because it was the right thing to do, is beyond me. We live in a hypercapitalist nation, and Dominion was in it all along for the money. The end.

[karynnj]

47. Their suit DID expose the hypocrisy and conspiracy of lies behind the scenes at FOX

Dominion's suit was about their being lied about and they won. They are not the problem. It may be the problem is that cable is essentially unregulated.

It is shocking that with everything exposed, there seem to be no laws requiring public broadcasters to not tell things they know are lies.

[Autumn]

49. They did hold them accountable. They got a nice settlement.

Fox news is the result of our politics and giving corporations whatever they want and need. It's not a private corporations job to save our democracy.

[onenote]

50. No they didn't. What a lot of people seem to be missing.

First, despite what most posters seem to assume, Dominion didn't have a slam dunk case.
Second, even if they won, it wouldn't have come with an order requiring Fox to apologize or to make corrective statements on-air.
Third, if Dominion had won (and again, no jury trial is ever a slam dunk), it would have been appealed, possibly all the way to the Supreme Court. Fox would be able to keep denying it is culpable for years while that process played out, and Dominion would have nothing in the interim, except more legal expenses.

Most importantly, Dominion didn't fail us because by bringing this suit -- at their expense and with some degree of risk -- they uncovered emails and statements that reflect very badly on Fox. Those are in the public record and there is no risk that a jury or appellate court judgement will conclude that Fox shouldn't or can't be held legally liable for them

[bluestarone]

61. You are always one of the BRIGHT LIGHTS that shine on this site! TY

Hell, even some judge could say, "that's too much money" (i think) and drop the amount. Dominion was successful. For God sake they are NOT our enemy people! I was wondering if the evidence from THIS trial could be used by others down the line? Anyway TY again ONENOTE! My hat off to you.

[kentuck]

52. Dominion won!

But that does not mean that democracy won. Not yet.

[PJMcK]

54. There is an interesting legal point that needs understanding

Dominion had powerful incentives to settle. Consider this post:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17840697

[GuppyGal]

56. I am not surprised that money is all that really matters each and every time. nt

[inthewind21]

87. As you

shouldn't be. THAT is the whole point of filing a civil law suit.

[localroger]

58. Insurance will not be paying this settlement for Fox.

Make no mistake, as was pointed out over on the orange site this settlement is about half of what Fox brings in in an entire year. Not Fox "news," the entire Fox organization -- sports, entertainment, the whole ball. This will hurt them badly. It is also like 40 years of normal revenue for Dominion. No way Dominion could have turned down such a settlement offer as their own shareholders would have had cause to riot.

The fact that Fox offered this settlement shouts volumes. Dominion's case wasn't a slam dunk but if they did win it Fox's lawyers knew Dominion was going to get everything they were asking for and maybe more. And they still have the Smartmatic case coming up. They also have the little matter of creating precedent. It is still considered very stupidly hard for a public figure or entity to win a libel case in the USA. And that's deliberate, a conscious choice our founders made as opposed to the situation in Britain where you can be found liable even if you can prove you are telling the truth. This would have become the largest libel victory in the history of the United States. There were probably entities far removed from Fox begging them to make sure that didn't happen.

And this is a cash settlement. Fox will have to come up with the money for Dominion. I'm very curious to find out how that will happen. It's probably going to burn a major hole in Rupert's pocket.

[Jose Garcia]

59. How much money would you have given to Dominion if they had lost?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Their attorneys were duty bound to get the best deal for their client.

And not the verdict that pleases the public.

[In It to Win It]

64. That's the name of the game: Take the money and run

[Fiendish Thingy]

65. Dominion had no obligation to "Us". Nt

[USALiberal]

66. Lol, well I'm sure they know way more than you do.

[Scrivener7]

67. People in this thread keep pointing out that Dominion had no obligation to us. And the OP

is saying Dominion failed us.

Both of those things can be, and are, true.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

72. This is why Fox was never going to publicly admit fault as part of a Dominion settlement

Link to tweet

[bigtree]

73. lol

...who's us?

This private company who had their reputation trashed owes you nothing.

[yardwork]

78. Dominion is a corporation.

They don't owe anything to the public other than to follow laws and regulations.

Dominion is a privately held company. If they were publicly traded, they would have a legal obligation to maximize value to their shareholders. Companies have a fiduciary responsibility to themselves and their owners.

[RobinA]

88. Clearly They Have

no legal obligation to the public beyond was is written in lawbooks.

I think that the question of whether they have a moral obligation to the country that provides them with a stable environment in which to prosper and win huge settlements is a much broader and deeper question. And one that will never be answered to everyone's satisfaction.

[FrankBooth]

79. Nothing says 'failure' like forcing FAUX to pay $800M

While I do understand the disappointment that FOX News isn't suddenly going to collapse and go away, that was never, ever, ever in the cards because of this lawsuit. To believe otherwise is naïve. FOX was going to continue as they have even if they'd gone to trial and lost the $1.6B, had all their dirty laundry aired, and been forced to play some scripted apology on the air. Even if they'd been compelled to fire Hannity, Tucker, Maria, etc., they would have just replaced them and moved on, and they would have been fine.

Dominion did as much damage to FOX as anyone ever has, and that's not nothing. The true believers will use their usual cognitive dissonance to rationalize the settlement, but anyone who isn't a true believer realizes that FOX didn't agree to pay 3/4 of a billion dollars because they did nothing wrong. Their credibility is more in the toilet now than in any time in the last 20 years, and that will have some impact with the general public.

The truth is that FOX doesn't have to rely on credibility as a news organization--good for them since they have none are aren't one. They just need to keep spoon feeding their angry, xenophobic viewers the angry xenophobic 'news' they want to hear and they'll continue to exist as they do until playing nursemaid to that pool of deplorables is no longer profitable.

[inthewind21]

89. Agreed

And, FOX finds themselves between a rock and a hard place with their viewers. Their viewers WANT the lies and distortions. As evidenced by the emails from FOX exec's that came out stating as much. This suit, and the Smartmatic one up to bat next puts them in a position to have to STFU with the BS stolen election line. THAT s what is pissing their viewers off and causing them to stop watching. Should be interesting. In essence, Dominion came in with a pretty stout left, Smartmatic could come in with the KO blow. Should be interesting in any event.

[elocs]

91. What obligation did Dominion have to us?

Exactly none.

[GoodRaisin]

97. Dominion doesn't owe us anything.

Dominion got what they wanted, which was to make Fox accountable for it’s lies about Dominion.