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Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 09:45 AM Apr 2023

Civil Settlements and DELAWARE CIVIL RULE 68

First off, Dominion was suing for $1.7B. If your gripe in life is "Fox could just buy its way out of the lawsuit" then you need to understand that lawsuits are primarily about whether or not a pile of money is going to go from one side of the courtroom to another.

Civil lawsuits can seek:

Declaratory relief - this is a type of remedy where you want a court to "declare" something about your rights or the other side's rights, such as "who owns this house".

Injunctive relief - this is a type of remedy where the court can require someone to do, or not do something, like "remove that fence from my yard" or "stop making noise at night". Significantly, in a defamation case, ordering an apology is not on the menu, since that gets into First Amendment issues.

ONE THING TO KNOW ABOUT THE DELAWARE COURTS - Delaware, unlike every other state in the country, has a separate court system for those two previous forms of relief. While pretty much only lawyers will appreciate this simple fact, the technical wording is that Delaware has not merged its courts of law and equity. If you are seeking non-tangible relief in a lawsuit, you have to take it to the Delaware Court of Chancery, and not Delaware Superior Court.

The third thing you can seek in a civil lawsuit, and it is by far the only thing usually sought, is monetary relief - i.e. that person owes me money or has injured me to the tune of $X and I want the court to order them to pay it to me.

Now, taxpayers don't pay the judge, the court employees, the jurors and everyone else for parties to come to court to put on a show for the purpose of entertainment. If you want to put on a national spectacle, do it in a state that has more than 800,000 people to pay for your entertainment.

In the US, the federal system, and most states including Delaware, have a rule described as an "offer of judgment". The way this works is that if you are suing for $X, and the other side offers to pay you $X, then the court, and by extension the public, has an interest in making you accept that offer.

The way we do that in this country is when the defendant makes an offer which they believe is equal to or greater than what you would get anyway, then they can invoke the "offer of judgment" rule along with the offer. Then, if you do not accept the offer, you are on the hook for all of the costs and fees of the defendant for the trial:



If the judgment finally obtained by the offeree is not more favorable than the offer, the offeree must pay the costs incurred after the making of the offer.

You'll notice that the trial was all ready to go, but that the parties conferred with the judge before the thing ended. Normally, settlement negotiations are ongoing throughout the dispute and don't involve the judge (but may involve a mediator or other neutral).

So, here's your choices....

1. You can take $787B now.

2. You can spin the wheel for the next two or three years litigating, appealing and proving up damages to maybe get the present equivalent of that amount several years from now. Remember, it took quite a while for the litigation to even reach this point, and a judgment of $1.7B three years from now is not much better than the present value of $787B.

However, if you do take option 2, then if you do not end up with a judgment of $787B, then you are ALSO going to lose millions of dollars on paying Fox's legal fees - that army of $700/hr billers - in the event you come up short. Now, it may very well be that Dominion's lawyers had some sort of partial contingency arrangement, but Dominion would be on the hook for cash money to pay Fox's lawyers.

That's not even betting on whether you win or not. You could win, but come up way short on damages, in which case you could win the case but lose money in the process.

Nobody starts and runs a company for the purpose of scoring points in lawsuits. The company is answerable to its shareholders for making rational decisions based on the idea that the shareholders invested their money to see some kind of monetary return, and not "worthy citizen" awards from political junkies.

But the takeaway here is that, yes, "buying your way out of a lawsuit" is indeed one of the things that the system is designed to encourage. If someone thinks they are owed a pile of money, and that debtor is willing to pay a pile of money, then we don't ask the 800,000 or so people in Delaware, to pay for you to put on an entertainment spectacle.

In fact, the system is affirmatively designed to punish you if you turn down an offer that is in the neighborhood of what you'd be able to get at trial anyway.

If that is a problem for you, then make sure to pay a little extra in your taxes this month, along with a request that your contribution be used to pay for more courts, judges and paying the jurors more than $35 a day for six weeks.



27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Civil Settlements and DELAWARE CIVIL RULE 68 (Original Post) Effete Snob Apr 2023 OP
The Dominion v. Fox News case was always going to settle PJMcK Apr 2023 #1
People are upset their favorite spring show got cancelled Sympthsical Apr 2023 #2
So.....will Dominion now go after the Fox Show Hosts/ Presenters? FarPoint Apr 2023 #5
Why not? Effete Snob Apr 2023 #9
Why would it? It's been compensated for its losses, Ocelot II Apr 2023 #10
Behold, the torts exam Respondeat Superior Wagon... Effete Snob Apr 2023 #12
LOL! Flashback time! Ocelot II Apr 2023 #13
A lark! Effete Snob Apr 2023 #14
LOL again! Ocelot II Apr 2023 #15
That's a great case Effete Snob Apr 2023 #16
I'm not upset at all localroger Apr 2023 #3
Don't you know that 1/2 their income is just a drop in the bucket! AZSkiffyGeek Apr 2023 #4
Fox's revenue may be in the upper billions, but their profit is around 10% of revenue. haele Apr 2023 #6
My understanding is they have about $4 billion in cash and cash equivalents Dave says Apr 2023 #27
Fox probably has business insurance. Whether any such policy will be canceled Ocelot II Apr 2023 #11
Per their legally required financial statements, Fox had $4B cash on hand as of 12/2022 sir pball Apr 2023 #17
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Ocelot II Apr 2023 #7
What caught my eye Effete Snob Apr 2023 #8
Thank you so much for this most informative, and illuminating, post. niyad Apr 2023 #18
Thanks so much. Kick and rec. emulatorloo Apr 2023 #19
+1 onenote Apr 2023 #20
Well done. cachukis Apr 2023 #21
Thank you Wild blueberry Apr 2023 #22
Recommended. H2O Man Apr 2023 #23
Good points, but we don't know if an offer of judgment was ever served rsdsharp Apr 2023 #24
We wouldn't know that Effete Snob Apr 2023 #26
K&R - - - and thank you for this very understandable explanation. Talitha Apr 2023 #25

PJMcK

(22,038 posts)
1. The Dominion v. Fox News case was always going to settle
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 09:50 AM
Apr 2023

Neither side could afford the public or legal spectacle of a trial.

Thanks for this information. It highlights the reasons why Dominion accepted the settlement.

Sympthsical

(9,086 posts)
2. People are upset their favorite spring show got cancelled
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:02 AM
Apr 2023

I don't care about this at all (I really, really, really don't watch and obsess over cable news) and have read almost nothing about it. I know it involves voting machines and defamation.

But just wanted to chime in and amen this statement. "Now, taxpayers don't pay the judge, the court employees, the jurors and everyone else for parties to come to court to put on a show for the purpose of entertainment."

It feels like that's exactly what was desired here.

It comes down to a simple thing. If people want to damage Fox News - stop watching it. Tons of Democrats watch that channel, comment on it, and advertise it. I've said before, I get 90% of my "What they're saying on Fox" knowledge from other Democrats who are talking about it and sharing links all day.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/02/democrats-fox-news-entertainment-conservative-liberal-00004843

For the cheap seats: "In total-day viewership, Fox News grabbed 42 percent of Democrats aged 25-54, CNN nabbed 33 percent, and MSNBC got 25 percent."

I get hate watching - it's how I got through Rings of Power. But it isn't helpful if you're trying to damage a brand. May I recommend Beef on Netflix? Am three episodes in and it's really, really good so far. And it might even be constructive, showing what happens when trying to get someone at any cost and what that can do to oneself and be a reflection of one's own personal discontent.

Great write up, OP. Been taking pre-law classes for fun this year and find how the legal system works completely fascinating. In another life . . .

FarPoint

(12,417 posts)
5. So.....will Dominion now go after the Fox Show Hosts/ Presenters?
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:17 AM
Apr 2023

Why not? They have the evidence...go after Hannity, Carlson, Laura Ingraham etc....

Ocelot II

(115,783 posts)
10. Why would it? It's been compensated for its losses,
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:38 AM
Apr 2023

and while these individuals are wealthy, they aren't the kind of rich who could afford the kind of settlement Dominion got from Fox. And anyhow, the legal doctrine of respondeat superior would cover their liability - the employer is responsible for the acts of the employees - so the Fox settlement would have included the damages caused by the individuals, and the settlement agreement probably contains language to that effect.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
12. Behold, the torts exam Respondeat Superior Wagon...
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:47 AM
Apr 2023


A smorgasbord of vicarious liability on wheels.

"Carl Crashem was on his way back after making deliveries, and stopped off at the bar to have a drink before picking up his kid from school in his Amazon delivery vehicle..."

Ocelot II

(115,783 posts)
15. LOL again!
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 11:06 AM
Apr 2023

The respondeat superior case that came to my mind was this one, about a cookie salesman who beat up a grocery store manager who refused to stock his cookies on an upper shelf. https://law.justia.com/cases/minnesota/supreme-court/1973/43829-1.html But no larks were involved, and the cookie salesman was not off on one. Your illustration is of a horned lark, which is the only lark native to North America, and it is an employee of Mother Nature.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
16. That's a great case
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 11:12 AM
Apr 2023

What gets me are the threads about the Caroll case where people repeat the trope of the DoJ arguing that "defaming a rape victim is within the scope of presidential duties".

But, yeah, there you have a case that would be characterized in the same inaccurate way of "is beating someone up part of the job of a cookie delivery man."

He should have had the elves come do it later.

localroger

(3,629 posts)
3. I'm not upset at all
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:12 AM
Apr 2023

In fact I have a big bag of popcorn ready to munch while I find out exactly where Fox is going to get cash equivalent to half their annual total income to pay Dominion. I bet that's going to be an interesting story in itself.

AZSkiffyGeek

(11,045 posts)
4. Don't you know that 1/2 their income is just a drop in the bucket!
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:16 AM
Apr 2023

That's what the keyboard accounting team made very clear over the past 24 hours.

haele

(12,663 posts)
6. Fox's revenue may be in the upper billions, but their profit is around 10% of revenue.
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:27 AM
Apr 2023

3/4 of a billion cuts into their profit margin. Shareholders are going to be shorted this year, as earnings are going to suffer, both from the settlement and from a potential loss of revenue by casual watchers who don't appreciate the lies they've been told. Also, with this late settlement - before trial - they do not escape the appearance of guilt, of the facts brought out during discovery that they regularly lie to affect political outcomes. The Federal Government has every right now to reduce their current access to federal facilities as an official approved "news source".
Which may cause other "news sources" to clean up their acts and drop a lot of those infotainment opinion segments for real journalism segments.
But -sigh - who am I kidding?

Haele

Dave says

(4,624 posts)
27. My understanding is they have about $4 billion in cash and cash equivalents
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 03:20 PM
Apr 2023

On edit: I see a post below that beat me to this.

sir pball

(4,756 posts)
17. Per their legally required financial statements, Fox had $4B cash on hand as of 12/2022
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 11:13 AM
Apr 2023

Having to fork over a quarter of their cash isn't small beans, but at the same time it's hardly going to break them – plus I'm sure insurance is going to cover a chunk.

Ocelot II

(115,783 posts)
7. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 10:30 AM
Apr 2023

What too many people couldn't get through their heads is that Dominion is just a business (another evil corporation, and aren't we supposed to hate all corporations?) that lost a whole lot of income as a result of Fox's repeated defamatory statements about its voting machines' involvement in the "stolen election." Dominion is not and never was a lefty crusader for justice whose aim was to destroy Fox. It didn't care about destroying Fox; it cared about recouping its losses. A civil lawsuit is how that's done in this country. But a civil lawsuit involving a dispute between two businesses - which is all this was - is neither a reality-TV spectacle for the delectation of the masses nor a fight for the preservation of democracy. Fox will survive this and the other claims against it. And in any event, though the cross-examinations of the likes of Murdoch and Carlson would have been entertaining, we wouldn't have seen any of it because this court doesn't permit trials to be broadcast.

In this particular case, the settlement offer was enormous - the largest ever in a defamation case (the Alex Jones award was larger, but that was a jury verdict, and the plaintiffs are unlikely to collect any of it). Some people are whining that it wasn't enough because Fox has a lot more money and can easily afford to pay it - but that doesn't matter. Dominion decided the offer was sufficient to compensate it while avoiding the risk of an unsatisfactory jury verdict or years of appeals, and that it was large enough to be tantamount to an apology.

Thanks for bringing up the offer of judgment rule. Maybe that might help hammer home the point that a trial really can be a crapshoot, and if you turn down a good offer hoping a jury will give you a better result you are skating on thin ice. The fact that the judge was involved is also significant (I have seen that happen only once, in federal court). Settlements are encouraged, and most cases do settle. You made another very important point in that regard, which is that the taxpayers of the jurisdiction pay for trials, and this one would have gone on for weeks (I paid for the George Floyd murder trial, thank you very much. I don't resent it a bit, but unless a high-profile trial happens in your city and you see all the commotion, you tend to forget who's paying for the whole thing).

rsdsharp

(9,188 posts)
24. Good points, but we don't know if an offer of judgment was ever served
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 01:01 PM
Apr 2023

let alone ten days before trial. If not, the risk of cost shifting specified in Rule 68 doesn’t exist, and couldn’t have been part of Dominion’s decision to settle.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
26. We wouldn't know that
Wed Apr 19, 2023, 02:30 PM
Apr 2023

...however, the context matters, since they held the final discussion with the judge present.

Any defendant looking for an exit will do that.

You will also recall that it came on the heels of the court's ruling that all of the statements in question were false, so half the job of the suit was already done.

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