Is nuclear war really back on the table?

[Cyrano]

Nine countries possess nuclear weapons: the United States, Russia, France, China, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, India, Israel, and North Korea.

IMO, no one in those first eight countries is crazy enough to launch a nuclear attack of any kind. They know it would lead to a nuclear holocaust that would destroy most, if not all, life on this planet.

But then, there's that ninth guy: The bug shit insane "Dear Leader" of North Korea. This is someone who holds an entire country in slavery to his every wish and whim. He's someone who has zero understanding of the world outside of the sadistic country/prison that he owns and rules. He's someone who has a handful of nuclear weapons. And he's someone who is ignorant and insane enough to use them.

If he launched a nuke at South Korea, Japan, or wherever, would this lead to Armageddon? It might, but there's a good chance it wouldn't. Any such insane action would turn North Korea into a nuclear ash heap within less than an hour. At which point, all the other nuclear powers would probably call a halt to the craziness.

Nuclear fallout from what was once a country, will drift with the prevailing winds and cause many deaths over many years. That, along with the deaths of 26 million North Koreans, would be the price exacted by a single madman.

To sum up, the ignorant, clueless maniac, Kim Jong-un, who possesses the entire country called North Korea, is the only person who has nuclear weapons and would launch them. And the rest of the world can't do a damn thing to prevent it.

[friend of a friend]

1. I'm not sure Putin wouldn't use tactical nukes against Ukraine.

[Cyrano]

2. Putin is a despicable swine. But I think his nuclear threats are B.S.

[Happy Hoosier]

13. Well SURE is a high bar, but I am pretty confident he will not.

It's a genuiniely earth-shattering decision. And if he did it, he risks the complete destruction of his Russia.

[friend of a friend]

18. Will his ego take the humiliation of being forced out of Ukraine?

I am not saying that Ukraine should accept anything less than completely taking back all of its country.

[Happy Hoosier]

20. Putin is not insane.

If he is forced to withdraw, he will spin a tale for his people that's plausible enough for them to claim "success."

He'll bide his time and try to build up again, and look for a new target, or go after Ukraine more covertly. He may ultimately seek to destablize it before trying again.

But he gains nothing by using a nuke. Even if it doesn;t excalte, he'd never be able to recover from that internationally.

[walkingman]

4. I hope not. However in today's world people don't seem to value human life much.

[GenXer47]

5. we could see above-ground tests return

I wouldn't be surprised if Kim Jong or Putin or even China lets of a few in the ocean or in a desert somewhere.
Then watch countries tear themselves apart in fear.

[Cyrano]

8. I doubt if Russia or China want to further pollute our atmosphere

For all the talk of climate change being a hoax, I doubt that Putin and Xi really believe all the wingnut denial crap. They know that above ground tests would further damage the only planet on which we are presently able to dwell.

On the other hand, no one knows what planet Kim Jung-un believes he dwells. I guess what I'm saying in this thread is that he (and his limited nuclear arsenal) is the most dangerous man in the world.

[MiniMe]

6. If, God help us, tRump gets back in...

all bets are off.

[Cyrano]

10. I truly believe that the Pentagon would not follow Trump's orders to launch nuclear weapons

It's possible that the only difference between them is that Kim Jong-un would attack another country. Trump, on the other hand, might just order a nuclear attack on San Francisco.

[Walleye]

7. We wouldn't even have to retaliate against North Korea with nuclear weapons

We could wipe them out entirely with our leftover stockpiles of conventional bombs. A country that is economically that bad off, NK, is definitely no threat in all out war. Not that he couldn’t kill a whole bunch of people if that’s what he wants to do

[Gaugamela]

9. I could easily see Putin using tactical nukes in Ukraine if he's pushed into

a corner. Moreover, I could see Trump doing something that stupid as well. Many people, especially men, can do stupid things in a moment of rage, like pull out a gun and start shooting in a fit of road rage, or shoot teenagers who happen to pull into the wrong driveway. Over the decades there’s been about a dozen near launches by accident because systems failed — these were only averted because someone refused to push the button. In the Cuban Missile Crisis a Soviet sub commander was ordered to launch a nuke at the US but he simply refused. What does make Kim Jong-un especially dangerous is that there is probably no one around him who would dare to stop him. But that may be true of Putin and Xi as well.

Nuclear weapons are always on the table.

[Cyrano]

11. I guess I find it hard to disagree that nukes are always on the table

Maybe Putin is crazier than we think. Maybe Trump will come back to power and the Pentagon will follow his orders to launch. Who knows for sure?

Some humans have always been a threat to the lives of others. Today, one madman with his finger on the button could end it all. Seems that this is one of the more dreadful places to which "progress" has taken us.

[former9thward]

14. Launch against who?

Trump was in power for four years and there was no launching. in fact no new wars despite the constant predictions. Trump was a lot of things but he was not an interventionist.

[Cyrano]

17. Do you really believe he has an ideogy?

I doubt if he can define "interventionist."

He'll do whatever is best for him and he'll do it the second he sees it as an "attack" on him.

Let me say this about him. The man's a fucking imbecile.

[Dave says]

12. Time is short, time is precious. Love those close to you and enjoy each day.

[Fiendish Thingy]

15. I'm not worried about nuclear war.

I’m much more concerned about the creeping disintegration of democracy around the world.

[Cyrano]

16. Yep. Especially right here in America

[friend of a friend]

19. As climate change keeps getting worse, democracies will tumble.

[Crunchy Frog]

21. We would probably take him out with conventional weapons.

Vaporizing NK would be unnecessary overkill, and would victimize ordinary people.

[maxsolomon]

22. Not convinced he has operable bombs.

I blame the CCP for allowing it to come to this point. Anytime in the last 60 years they could have ended this.

[Xolodno]

23. Yes.

One thing India and Pakistan are doing, is not escalating.

But escalating things with North and South Korea or Ukraine and Russia could launch and accidental nuclear launch. For example, what if Russia deploys tactical nukes to Ukraine, Putin may have no intention of actually using them, but say we do something that forces him to raise the ante. And then a nervous ground commander thinks he has orders to launch. That is the more likely scenario.

Another scenario, a Ukrainian unit starts getting close to capturing a tactical nuke and a nervous ground commander fears he has no choice to launch. Worse, a Ukrainian unit captures one and someone gets trigger happy and uses it on Russian troops before anyone in the high command is aware of it.

If you note, these are examples of "accidental" launches and we came close to a few of those during the Cold War. And since W Bush trashed treaties rather than renegotiate them and put NATO on an offensive position with Russia instead of past cooperation (they held exercises together), not to mention pissed on the whole notion of Russia joining NATO. We are now back at square one where an "accidental" launch can happen.

[Mr.Bill]

24. Kim Jong-un is not stupid either.

He's using his nuclear capabilities as leverage to get things. He has no desire to commit suicide. If he was ever going to use nuclear weapons, he would have already.