General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone supporting Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. as a "Democratic" candidate for POTUS in '24 is in
the same category as the MAGAts: willfully ignorant self-centered political terrorists.
They don't want to build; they want to tear down.
They don't want to elect; they want to defeat.
How could a rational person who agrees with most of our long-held Democratic ideals even CONSIDER voting for a candidate who is backed by the likes of Bannon and associates with malignant trolls like Stone?
Elections are about making a choice, not making a statement. Pull your heads out, people!
Renew Deal
(81,883 posts)There are just clueless idiots and russian bots (inadvertant and intentional)
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)No, and no...and after 2016...it is malice in my opinion both from those who run and those who support them.
Renew Deal
(81,883 posts)LiberalFighter
(51,170 posts)Just like they did with Brexit in Britain.
stevil
(1,537 posts)He's the flavor of the week for Mega folk and its early in the race.
Lovie777
(12,356 posts)and when President Biden wins the primary, their supporters will vote for the GQP in the general or won't vote at all.
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)from Republicans...one way or the other. Having looked at their dreadful chances to win in 24, they GOP have decided they need a spoiler. It won't work this time...
Bettie
(16,132 posts)they are holding hands with the extreme right...where the two sides circle together.
That is NOT, contrary to the belief of many, actual progressives.
I had a friend who fell down that rabbit hole. We don't really speak much anymore, but our last conversation was...interesting? Horrifying? He was a Democrat all his voting life, but he voted for the Green candidate in 2020, because Jimmy Dore told him to.
Quixote1818
(28,992 posts)Rebl2
(13,575 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,667 posts)oldsoftie
(12,632 posts)Celerity
(43,590 posts)SomedayKindaLove
(532 posts)Doesnt pay Kennedy to run as an Independent during the national election. I saw Kennedy was polling at 14%.
a kennedy
(29,723 posts)Aaron Rodgers seems to be on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.s team as he makes his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination against President Joe Biden.
The quarterback appeared to endorse the politician on social media this week, adding #Kennedy2024 and a pair of flexing emojis on top of a video of Kennedy and vaccine skeptic Aubrey Marcus on his Instagram story, which was reported by People.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/aaron-rodgers-robert-f-kennedy-jr-presidential-campaign_n_643854cce4b0ac40918a6184
DownriverDem
(6,232 posts)been anti vaccination all along. I know one who supports Kennedy because of his anti vaccination position.
Joinfortmill
(14,481 posts)I'm going to ignore all things RFK, Jr.
BComplex
(8,073 posts)protect his run.
live love laugh
(13,162 posts)I hope our voters get smarter about split tickets.
Its messaging that Dems need to communicate ongoing.
LiberalFighter
(51,170 posts)mzmolly
(51,010 posts)Or worse than Dems?
Most people who remember the Kennedys are boomers who are already MAGA minded. Theyre not the most thoughtful bunch.
TwilightZone
(25,499 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2023, 02:07 PM - Edit history (1)
51/48, according to Pew. 49/49 in the 2018 midterms.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/
That marginally qualifies as "most", but I think it was a lot closer than many realize.
mzmolly
(51,010 posts)I was not aware of that but am glad to hear it wasn't a greater split in favor of fascism.
Celerity
(43,590 posts)and the white voters in those groups really went Trump. White women broke for Trump at a far higher rate in 2020 (+7% to +11% depending on the poll) versus 2016 (+2% to +3%).
Around 57 million Boomers voted, so Trump netted (depending on what poll you look at), 1.85 to 2.85 million more votes than Biden from just the Boomers. When you add in the oldest third of Gen X and all the voters older than Boomers, Trump netted 2.75 to 4.25 million more votes than Biden from those cohorts. Split difference and call it a 3.5 million Trump net gain. That is half the size of Biden's 7 million overall popular vote win, so the under 50 crowd truly carried the day for Biden (over 10 million net more voted in favour of Biden).
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/18/the-2020-election-shows-gen-zs-voting-power-for-years-to-come.html
https://edition.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/
The 2020 Election Was a Breakthrough Moment For Young Voters
https://time.com/6049270/2020-election-young-voters/
But 2020 was a breakthrough moment for the youngest American voters. Last year, I covered how the rise in Millennial political engagement would shape the country in my book, The Ones Weve Been Waiting For, which is out in paperback this week. Voting data from the election shows that young voters are already reshaping the contours of American politics.
For starters, there are simply more of them. According to new data from the Democratic data firm Catalist, Millennials and members of Gen Zwhich together make up the American adults born since 1981 now represent 31% of the electorate, up from 23% in 2016 and just 14% in 2008. Meanwhile, the voting blocs that have long maintained an iron grip on American political power are receding. In 2008, Baby Boomers and older generations (American adults born before 1964) made up 61% of the electorate; by 2020, they were only 44%. Thats a permanent change, says Yair Ghitza, chief scientist at Catalist. And its only going to grow from there.
Young voters also had record turnout: roughly 50%, according to the Center for Information & Research on Civic Learning and Engagement (CIRCLE) at Tufts University, a jump of 11 percentage points from 2016 and likely the highest youth voter turnout since the voting age was lowered to 18. According to Harvards annual Institute of Politics poll, 36% of young people now consider themselves politically active, up from just 24% in the year after Barack Obama was elected in what was supposed to be a watershed moment for young Americans. Biden won roughly 60% of voters under 30, which helped power his wins in key states. According to CIRCLE, the net youth votes in Bidens favor exceeded his margin of victory in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania, four battlegrounds he flipped.
In the same way that Millennials were shaped by their experiences at the dawn of the 21st century, from 9/11 to the election of Obama and the economic recession, its clear that the last five years have dramatically shaped how young voters see their role in American politics. Gen Z in particular is stepping into the political arena after being antagonized by Trump, radicalized by the reckoning over racial justice, and demoralized by a year of virtual schooling due to Covid-19. I think theres an urgency, specifically to Gen Z, says John Della Volpe, director of polling at Harvard Kennedy Schools Institute of Politics. Millennials are the tip of a spear: their values are significantly different than the values that preceded them in Gen X. Millennials have opened up important conversations around inequality, around climate, around BLM, but now Gen Z is seizing that opportunity, expanding it, and calling it their own.
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Half of Youth Voted in 2020, An 11-Point Increase from 2016
Our analysis of youth voter turnout nationwide finds wide variation between states and underscores the importance of electoral laws and policies that help grow voters.
https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016
We estimate that 50% of young people, ages 18-29, voted in the 2020 presidential election, a remarkable 11-point increase from 2016 (39%) and likely one of the highest rates of youth electoral participation since the voting age was lowered to 18. Our new estimate is based on newly available voter file data in 41 statesAK, DC, HI, MD, MS, NH, ND, UT, WI, WY do not have reliable vote history data by age. This analysis replaces our earlier estimate, released immediately after Election Day, which estimated a 5 to 11 point increase in youth voter turnout compared to 2016 based on data available in that moment.
In recent weeks, we released youth voter turnout in all available states by region: West/Southwest, South, Midwest, and East/Northeast. Those analyses offer more details on several notable states and have now been updated with the latest data. Our estimates of youth voter turnout rates in more than 80% of states are in some ways a tribute to young peoples commitment to political engagement and action in 2020, and their impressive ability to navigate a changing electoral landscape during a global pandemic. The data also allows us to zoom out, look at trends in youth voter participation, and draw some conclusions about what is and isnt working to broaden and diversify the youth electorate. We pay special attention to laws and election administration policies that affect the ease of casting a ballot in each statefrom voter registration to vote-by-mail, which can always impact youth voter turnout but may have had especially large effects in 2020, as the COVID-19 pandemic shifted election processes across the country.
Turnout rates for youth ages 18-29 are displayed on the map. Hover over each state to also see turnout for ages 18-19. No data available for states shaded gray.
Youth Voting Increased Across the Country
Half of eligible young voters cast a ballot in 2020. However, as is the case in every election cycle, youth voter turnout rates varied widely across the country: New Jersey (67%), Minnesota (65%), Colorado (64%) and Maine (61%) had the highest statewide youth turnout rates, while South Dakota (32%), Oklahoma (34%), Arkansas (35%), and New Mexico (39%) had the lowest. Numerous interconnected factors shape whether youth electoral participation is high or low. These include the competitiveness of elections, how much (or how little) campaigns and organizations reach out to young people, the states civic culture and civic education policies, the demographic composition of the youth population, and state voting lawswhich are discussed in greater detail belowthat can either facilitate voting or pose barriers for youth. Because theres no single reason why youth voter turnout may be high or low in a state, and no silver bullet if its the latter, it is crucial to examine these and other factors that may be at play in order to expand the electorate.
Turnout in 2020 was much higher than in 2016, when we estimate (using the same methodology) that 39% of young people cast a ballot. This sizable, 11-point increase builds on young peoples momentum from 2018, when youth turnout was record-setting for a midterm year. State-by-state turnout increases between 2016 and 2020 were 9 percentage points on average, but also varied widely. The largest increases in youth voter turnout were in New Jersey (+22), Arizona (+18), and California and Washington (both +17). Notably, with the exception of Arizona, all of those states automatically mailed absentee ballots to all registered voters without voters having to request them. No states saw a decrease in turnout, and in only one state (Louisiana) did the youth voter turnout rate remain flat, at 42%, between 2016 and 2020.
snip
mzmolly
(51,010 posts)what I recall. Thanks for sharing!
Our youth give me hope.
Celerity
(43,590 posts)RW battshittery has put some sense into many who voted for Motherfucker in 2020.
White men actually voted to a lesser degree for Trump in 2020 than in 2016.
mzmolly
(51,010 posts)Its my understanding that the exit polling data could be skewed because of that? I think its really hard to get an accurate demographic breakdown, given the anomalies in that particular election.
Celerity
(43,590 posts)the same increased movement for white women to Trump and also the trend of less white men voting for him in terms of percentage rate, in some cases dramatically lower rates, which is heartening.
Unfortunately Trump also made gains with Hispanics and black men.
2022 pre/post midterm polls, panels, and exit polls confirmed the increased percentages of white women voting RW being maintained (thankfully not increased at least). And that was post Roe being overturned.
Also, in the Blue Wave of 2018, white women only moved (compared to 2016) a net 4 points (+2 R to +2 D) from Rethug to Dem, whilst white men massively (18 net points) moved in the Dem direction (from +30 R to only +12 R).
mzmolly
(51,010 posts)How that bloated ignoramus could appeal to anyone is beyond me. Especially women and POC.
Quixote1818
(28,992 posts)Not sure any of them would not vote for Trump though. Would be a tiny fraction of them. But maybe some of those you are pointing to.
mzmolly
(51,010 posts)might cross over?
oldsoftie
(12,632 posts)But if he ran as an independent he could very well get a LOT of the anti-vax/flat earth/bill-gates-is-the-devil vote
That's what I am hoping!
Marthe48
(17,047 posts)He has my vote. Agree almost 100% with what he's doing, what he's got done and how he is handling the clean-up in aisle 45.
dlk
(11,582 posts)That says it all.
sanatanadharma
(3,740 posts)Ignore the who* and focus on the choice!
Love vs hate
Health vs hurt
Progressing vs regressing
Teaching vs torching
Justice vs vengeance
Governance vs greediness
Acting vs actors
Thou shall vs shall not
Virtuous vs vacuous
American ideas vs American blood
(more vs less - add your own)
*Actually the who must be labeled as regressive, wrong, and dangerous. Quote the insanity.
live love laugh
(13,162 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Caliman73
(11,752 posts)He is and will likely remain at the level of a Marianne Williams. The only thing he has going for him is the "Kennedy" name, and he has already dragged that through the mud in Democratic circles.
No one serious will give him the time of day.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)Celerity
(43,590 posts)Robert F. Kennedy Jr. launches his unlikely bid for the Democratic presidential nomination Wednesday with the support of 14% of voters who backed President Joe Biden in 2020, an exclusive USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds.
That is surprising strength for a candidate who has a famous political name but is now known mostly as the champion of a debunked conspiracy theory blaming childhood vaccines for autism.
In the survey taken Saturday through Tuesday, only 67% of Biden's 2020 supporters said they would support him for the Democratic nomination over his current challengers. Kennedy stands at 14%, and self-help author Marianne Williamson, a quixotic candidate for the nomination last time, is at 5%. Another 13% are undecided.
The poll was taken by landline and cellphone of 600 Biden voters, identified from national and state polls from 2020 to 2022. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Supporting him for whatever reason one has is not necessarily the same as believing and spreading campaign lies about Democrats and other Democratic candidates, and certainly not the same as not voting democratic in the end.
Give people room to be themselves. Our personal freedoms end where another persons nose begins, not wherever other people want.
(Btw, my nose begins where a candidate betrays by trying to deceive us about ourselves. No excuses. No forgetting.)
snot
(10,540 posts)there has to be room for discussion of alternatives.
Here are RFK's priorities, from his campaign website:
Remake public institutions to serve the public.
Roll back the excessive secrecy.
End warrantless surveillance.
Stop political censorship.
Make government transparent.
Focus on the concerns that Americans hold in common.
Lead the country toward an ethos of respectful dialog and reconciliation across races, parties, and divisions.
Unite Americans around safe and healthy food, pure water, clean air, and living rivers, forests, grasslands, and wetlands.
Accelerate the transition to a regenerative agricultural system and incentivize the transition to zero-waste cycles and clean energy sources.
Reverse Americas economic decline.
Government assistance to the nations most vulnerable.
Reverse the policies that have led to such poverty in the first place.
End the foreign wars, bring home the troops, and devote the freed-up resources to revitalize America.
Repairing our infrastructure, cities, industries, and public services.
Reduce incarceration.
Which of these are in conflict with "most of our long-held Democratic ideals"?
Atticus
(15,124 posts)"MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN" and it is no more meaningful.
RFK Jr. is---to be charitable---a weak-minded man unaware that Bannon, Stone and similar RW thugs are delighted that he is ok with being used to dilute President Biden's support.
"Pre-Wall St.-approved candidates" was a "tell", by the way.
niyad
(113,628 posts)bannon and stone, and speaks at hillsdale. Tells me EVERYTHING that I need to know.
Celerity
(43,590 posts)primaries (potentially).
RFK Jr is a fucking nutter on multiple issues.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s Anti-Vaccine Film Targeted To Black Americans Spreads False Information
The New Apartheid? Conspiracist Robert F. Kennedy, Jrs latest anti-vaccine film spins real history of medical racism to scare Black Americans into rejecting COVID shots
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/08/1004214189/anti-vaccine-film-targeted-to-black-americans-spreads-false-information
When a filmmaker asked medical historian Naomi Rogers to appear in a new documentary, the Yale professor didn't blink. She had done these "talking head" interviews many times before. She assumed her comments would end up in a straightforward documentary that addressed some of the most pressing concerns of the pandemic, such as the legacy of racism in medicine and how that plays into current mistrust in some communities of color. The subject of vaccines was also mentioned, but the focus wasn't clear to Rogers. The director wanted something more polished than a Zoom call, so a well-outfitted camera crew arrived at Rogers' home in Connecticut in the fall. They showed up wearing masks and gloves. Before the interview, crew members cleaned the room thoroughly. Then they spent about an hour interviewing Rogers. She discussed her research and in particular controversial figures such as Dr. James Marion Sims, who was influential in the field of gynaecology but who performed experimental surgery on enslaved Black women during the 1800s without anaesthesia.
"We were talking about issues of racism and experimentation, and they seemed to be handled appropriately," Rogers recalls. At the time, there were few indications that anything was out of the ordinary except one. During a short break, she asked who else was being interviewed for the film. The producer's response struck Rogers as curiously vague. "They said, 'Well, there's 'a guy' in New York, and we talked to 'somebody in New Jersey, and California,' " Rogers told NPR. "I thought it's so odd that they wouldn't tell me who these people were." It wasn't until this March that Rogers would stumble upon the answer. She received an email from a group called Children's Health Defense prominent in the anti-vaccine movement promoting its new film, Medical Racism: The New Apartheid. When she clicked on the link and began watching the 57-minute film, she was shocked to discover this was the movie she had sat down for back in October. "I was naïve, certainly, in assuming that this was actually a documentary, which I would say it is not. I think that it is an advocacy piece for anti-vaxxers," Rogers says. "I'm still very angry. I feel that I was used."
The free, online film is the latest effort by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the founder of Children's Health Defense. (He's the son of the former U.S. Attorney General Robert "Bobby" Kennedy and nephew of President John F. Kennedy.) With this film, Kennedy and his allies in the anti-vaccine movement resurface and promote disproven claims about the dangers of vaccines, but it's aimed squarely at a specific demographic: Black Americans. The film draws a line from the real and disturbing history of racism and atrocities in the medical field such as the Tuskegee syphilis study to interviews with anti-vaccine activists who warn communities of color to be suspicious of modern-day vaccines. At one point in Medical Racism, viewers are warned that "in black communities something is very sinister" and "the same thing that happened in the 1930s during the eugenics movement" is happening again. There is lengthy discussion of the thoroughly disproven link between autism and vaccines. For example, the film references a study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention about the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and autism rates as evidence that African American children are being particularly harmed, but in reality the study did not conclude that African Americans are at increased risk of autism because of vaccination.
The movie then displays a chart claiming to use that same CDC data obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request to make a connection between vaccinating Black children and autism risk. The findings in the chart closely resemble another study sometimes mentioned by anti-vaccine activists, but the medical journal later retracted the study, because of "undeclared competing interests on the part of the author" and "concerns about the validity of the methods and statistical analysis." (That study's author was also a paid independent contractor for Kennedy's group as of 2020 and sits on its board of directors.) The film also brings up a 2014 study from the Mayo Clinic that showed Somali Americans and African Americans have a more robust immune response to the rubella vaccine than Caucasians and Hispanic Americans. One of those interviewed in Kennedy's film then asks, "So if you have that process that could be caused by vaccines, why wouldn't there be a link between vaccines and developmental delays?" But the study's own author and leading vaccine researcher, Dr. Gregory Poland, says this conjecture is not accurate. According to a statement provided to NPR by the Mayo Clinic, the study demonstrated "higher protective immune responses in African-American subjects with no evidence of increased vaccine side effects" and that any claim of " 'increased vulnerability' among African-Americans who receive the rubella vaccine is simply not supported by either this study or the science."
snip
Bluepinky
(2,276 posts)FakeNoose
(32,823 posts)This is just a political stunt and it's going to backfire in slow motion. Steve Bannon is a chaos agent.