Texas Secession Petition

[aletier_v]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B

If Texas secedes,

does that mean no Jeb or George P campaigns for president?

[djean111]

1. Jeb officially lives in Florida.

Too bad. Really.

[virtualobserver]

2. texans on social security won't like it n/t

[VenusRising]

3. Let them sign until their fingers are bloody stumps.

Texas cannot legally secede from the union.

[aletier_v]

4. well, someone else raised an interesting point...

if Texas secedes, we'd probably never see another Republican presidency.

[VenusRising]

6. There is no if, though.

It legally cannot be done.

[Shankapotomus]

21. Why on earth would we

want to stop them? If republicans and conservatives have their own "homeland" to live in it might mean less arguing and political conflict with us.

[VenusRising]

54. Because there are really great Democrats in Texas.

Many DUers among them.

It's time to stop with this Texas bashing bullshit.

[Shankapotomus]

65. Not bashing Texas

I'm well aware there are awesome dems in and from Texas.

Please see my full response to the same objection at the link below, if you require further clarification:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1789943

[Posteritatis]

56. You do know more than 40% of the state voted Democratic, right? (nt)

[Shankapotomus]

64. Yea, I know there are dems in Texas

and I'm not intentionally implying we disregard them. Maybe another red state would be a better candidate for a peaceable and mutually acceptable secession. However, the point is, if conservatives and laze faire capitalists get their own playground, there would be less excuse for them to try and enforce their twisted ideology upon us.

Also it would let the world see them experiment with their political agendas unencumbered and allow its ultimate failure to be witnessed on the world stage. What we have now is their incessant whining that they are not being allowed to "try" what they want to do. I say, let the wing nuts try it but in their own new nation, where the consequences can't reach the majority of liberals. If that state were designated as NJ I would be more than happy to pack up and move if it saved other liberals the necessity of negotiating policy with these nut jobs.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

33. I'm a math geek

So I think I might play with this tonight, just to see how the electoral votes from Texas might be distributed...all in fun, it will never happen.

[Tx4obama]

39. The Texas EVs would not be distributed to the other states - the number would be deducted from 538

The number of EVs each state has is: The number of congressional districts (one for each U.S. House Representative) plus two (one for each of the U.S. Senators).

So, if there were no Texas the NEW total of EVs would be: 538 minus 38 = 500

But Texas is NOT going anywhere

[SickOfTheOnePct]

40. 2 EVs wouldn't be re-assigned

The Senatorial ones. The ones based on the House (36) would be, because the size of the House is fixed at 435.

We would have 536 electoral votes instead of 538.

[Tx4obama]

42. I believe The House number would change if a state left just like it changed when states were added

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionment

The House number is not set in stone and can be amended.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

43. Sure it could be

But why would it? Keeping the number in the House the same would be better, because it would result in more representative government, i.e., fewer citizens per representative.

[Lizzie Poppet]

7. But would we elect, here and now, to wage war to prevent secession?

Personally, I'm disinclined to believe we would...

[aletier_v]

11. One effect of the national debt...

as it was being run up, generally it was a net positive for State governments.

but as it becomes a greater drag, it changes from net positive holding the USA together to a net negative pushing it apart. Soviet Union fell apart, too, although the counter-argument is that it was originally composed of many different cultures and the USA was not.

The secession talk happened after Clinton's election, too, and for the same reasons.

[Posteritatis]

57. No major power will allow that precedent to exist.

Something negotiated over years and done in stages, maybe, but not a "we're outta here." None of them would hesitate to respond to the latter with force.

The P-5 in particular are starkly hostile to secession as a concept even in other nations, and tend to fight against it. It's why nobody dares recognize, e.g., Somaliland, even though there was nothing to secede from in the first place there, and why South Sudan wasn't recognized by anyone until they finally clubbed that recognition out of Khartoum.

If Texas' government unilaterally seceded, the army - well, the rest of the army - would be there very quickly.

[struggle4progress]

5. No, I think we settled all that the last time Texas wanted to secede

The conclusion was slavery is wrong, and Texans don't get to have slaves

Go ahead, Texans: threaten to hold your breath and turn blue

I don't care: we just aren't going to have that discussion again

[brewens]

8. Secede? Hell, we'd give Texas to Mexico if we thought they'd take it! We'd have to move

the Houston Texans first though. The Cowboys they could have. Maybe turn them into a soccer team?

[Sekhmets Daughter]

32. Oh that is too funny!

[Cheap_Trick]

9. let the backwards ass crybabies secede.

Texas would be a third world country overnight.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

10. Maybe it would be better to light a candle instead of cursing the darkness

http://www.facebook.com/TurnTexasBlue

[wandy]

12. Go ahead Texas secede, just don't come around here for foreign aid..............

This isn't the article I was looking for. It only shows some of why it's not so too very good of an idea.

If Texas were to secede from the United States, they would find themselves the thirteenth largest economy in the world. This would put them somewhere above Saudi Arabia. Yee Haw for Texas! This would last approximately one week.

http://myfivebest.com/what-if-texas-succeeded-in-seceding-from-the-u-s/

This article only shows the beginnings of the problems.

Oh and by the way cowpoke, you don't get to keep the hardware. Things like fighters, tanks, computers, you know those little things you might need if you should want a military.

You don't get to keep NASA. That moves to Colorado!

[Horse with no Name]

15. Pull the federal aid from the hospitals

Medicare and Medicaid...boom goes the hospital industry.

Pull the Federal Pell Grants and Federally subsidized student loans...there go the colleges.

Pull all of the military bases, personnel and equipment...oops...is that Lockheed and Raytheon pulling up stakes?

The list goes on and on...

[Dalai_1]

41. My thoughts exactly

Perry has refused to accept Medicaid funding....he bragged about balancing his budget
lets see how this works out for him!

great point about Lockheed and Raytheon!

[hughee99]

16. One issue with that link...

"Texas would suffer from any serious thoughts of seceding from the United States. While it is good and fine to posture about the ability to have individual freedoms, they forget the government aid they receive for the 1.5 million children they have living in poverty. They forget that they receive $625 million dollars each year from the U.S. government to combat their welfare. "

Texas pays in more than it gets back from the federal government. Yes, there are certainly a lot more advantages to being part of the US than being independent, but federal aid wouldn't be the deal-breaker for them. Incidentally, I noticed it's the ONLY state that pays more in federal taxes than it gets back from the federal government that voted for Rmoney in the last election.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/united-states-federal-tax-dollars/

[Sekhmets Daughter]

34. That 13th position in the global economy

depends on them keeping all of the military personnel and bases....That's not gonna' happen.

[wandy]

61. As the article said, for about a week..........

They might keep the land the bases are on and possably some of the personnel. If they tryed to keep the hardware it would likely get real ugly real fast.
Even if they keep enough military power to hold off Mexico, it would still be the least of their problems.
I am not picking on Texas. Think about what would happen in you're (or any ) state were you to be gifted with a trade embargo.
Could any state that seceded believe they would be con sired a US ally?
This is just another example of Tepublicans shooting first and taking aim second.
I fear no good will come from half the country living in an alternate reality.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

62. I was agreeing with you... :-)

[wandy]

66. Disn't say you weren't. Just amplifing how foolish it would be.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

67. Foolish puts it mildly!

[Hippo_Tron]

70. That's basically how the last civil war started

[SDjack]

13. Texans are proud to be in the Union. Texans join the military and die in our wars. Texans

participate in our Federal government. If a group in Texas gained political control and petitioned the US Gov for a divorce, a civil war would break out -- in Texas. The smarter 90% of Texans are not going to let the trouble makers proceed.

[txwhitedove]

14. Exactly, thank you.

[BOG PERSON]

17. why don't we just return texas to mexico

it's never too late to say sorry

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. This s silly

Best case, Mexico will build a wall...mexico don't want the few thousand radicals either.

[Tx4obama]

18. Please stop with the nonsense. Texas isn't going to sucede.

The majority of folks in Texas in the largest cities/county voted for Obama.

"We the People" more PURPLE than red.

2008 Presidential Election Results (Texas) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Texas,_2008#Results

2012 Presidential Election Results (Texas): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Texas,_2012#Results

[DollarBillHines]

37. Thanks for posting that

As a Texan ex-pat, I catch a lot of flack from folks out here.

Texas will soon be Blue.

[Tx4obama]

19. I hope the folks on this thread remember that MANY DUers are Texans. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. We do, hope the signers just got a quick

FBI file.

[VenusRising]

53. Apparently we're dispensable.

It gets really tiresome.

fellow Texas Democrat!!

[ceejdre82]

59. I sure it is the red repugs that want to succeed now.....but it is Dems like you

that reassure everyone that those red Texans make people assume that all Texans think that way....thanks for being blue!

[jbgood1977]

68. Many progressives understand the positives of an amicable break

up before any shooting starts is a good idea.

This is not a bad idea being proposed here:
http://www.irregulartimes.com/secedenow.html

[jsr]

63. Not to mention people are moving to Texas like mad

There are crap loads of out-of-state license plates in Austin clogging the roads and byways.

[cali]

20. uh, this is a petition from a few hundred nutfuckwads. duh

[JPZenger]

22. Most of the cities in Texas are very blue

If you look at a map of presidential elections by county, instead of by state, you see very different results. Many of the rural areas of "blue" states are red, and most of the cities and urban counties in "red" states (including Texas) are blue.

[BOG PERSON]

27. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

74. A home run is NOT "much" better than two doubles!

but that is a discussion for another thread

[mick063]

23. I live in Washington

and you could find a couple thousand that would sign a petition to leave the Union in our "blue" state.


There was even talk of dividing our state in two so that "Seattle can't dictate policy" for the east side of the state.

[kentauros]

78. That's a tidbit

that's rarely pointed out by those in the "Blue NW"

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Oh that is cute

US v State of Texas, been settled.

Oy

[TeamPooka]

29. never happen. Rick Perry doesn't want to pay his bills on his own. nt

[hollysmom]

30. but but., but I have friends there!!!

they tried to talk me into moving there, like my sister wanted me to move to North Carolina - I think they just want more liberal asses down in their areas, and I qualify as a liberal ass.

[DevonRex]

31. Let's give the people who want to secede a

1-way ticket to whatever non-socialized country will take them.

Texas stays with us, as do the people there who love the US.

[LostInAnomie]

35. If Texas secedes, that would be a... shame?

Make Puerto Rico a state though, and we wont even have to change our flag.

[kentauros]

79. It would be far more than a "shame".

It would wreck the economy of the rest of the country.

Stop listening to these uneducated assholes in our great state!

[Swede Atlanta]

36. Let's see....

If Texas were to secede (which they won't)....

The U.S. would set a deadline for its citizens to either leave the new country of Texas or be deemed to be a citizen of said country.

Since we will have had no diplomatic history with them we would of course require visas for any Texas national to enter the U.S. Since Texas is not a member of the WTO we would place high tariffs on their produce, oil, etc. We would sever the pipelines running from Canada to Texas.

I would suggest, further steps. Since they are a hostile nation we should have no telephone, air or mail service to or from Texas. They would be cutoff from the U.S. electric grid. Any water flowing from the U.S. into Texas would be now held in reservoirs.

We would see how long they would last. Not very long indeed. They are all bluster but are, at the core, cowards.

[Thinkingabout]

38. More from the dumb conserative side, not smart.

In Houston we did the best we could and are blue but hoping this changes soon, we have been blue before and can again. We need to remove more of the OOPS.

[ellenfl]

44. i think we should all sign the petition. eom

[SickOfTheOnePct]

45. Just for fun

And knowing that Texas is not going to secede, but again, just for fun..

Assumptions: Texas secedes and the size of the House remains the same at 435. The two Senate electoral votes would disappear, and the 36 House electoral votes would be apportioned out to the states using a new formula that subtracts the population of Texas from the national population, and subtracts the DC population, as their population doesn't count for House apportionment.

Data was downloaded to a spreadsheet from the U.S. Census site

The following states would receive 1 additional EV:
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Georgia
Indiana
Iowa
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Missouri
Oklahoma
Oregon
Tennessee
Virginia
Wisconsin

The following states would receive 2 EVs:
Florida
Illinois
New Jersey
North Carolina
Ohio
Pennsylvania

New York would receive 3 EVs and California would receive 4 EVs.

Yes, it will never happen, but like I said, I'm a math geek, and I love stuff like this.

[AlinPA]

46. Look at the military bases that Texas has. Secede, hell. They need the US.

Major Installations

Army
•Fort Bliss
•Red River Army Depot
•Fort Hood
•Sam Houston/Camp Bullis
•Ingleside Army Depot

Navy & Marine Corps
•Corpus Christi Naval Air Station/Naval Hospital/Naval Station
•Kingsville Naval Air Station

Air Force
•Randolph AFB
•Brooks City Base
•Lackland AFB
•Sheppard AFB
•Air Force Plant 4 (formerly Carswell AFB)
•Dyess AFB
•Goodfellow AFB
•Laughlin AFB

Coast Guard
•Corpus Christi
•Houston/Galveston
•VTS Houston/Galveston
•Air Station Corpus Christi
•Air Station Houston
•Search and Rescue Station Freeport
•Search and Rescue Station Port Aransas
•Marine Safety Unit Port Arthur
•VTS Port Arthur
•Marine Safety Unit Texas City

Personnel Totals
•Army 60,945
•Navy & Marine Corps 6,909
•Air Force 40,981
•Coast Guard 1,409
•Active Duty Military 108,835
•Reserve and National Guard 84,721
•Total Personnel 194,965

[rainbow4321]

47. Heh..so when texas repukes try to send their repuke jrs to a university outside TX

Does that mean that they have to pay foreign students' tuition rate?

Guess they haven't thought that far ahead.

[Matariki]

48. Can we trade them for something useful?

[upi402]

49. A weiner wart

Ann Richards where are you?

[libdem4life]

50. "Don't let the door hit you in the ass" always comes immediately to mind. Then I repent.

[jbgood1977]

51. This progressive site has postulated that it may be time for a break up

http://www.irregulartimes.com/secedenow.html

It's an interesting argument. I really do see two nations when I look at the national red/blue map. Perhaps an amicable break up before any shooting starts is a good idea. I'm not talking about any kind of grade school B.S. about blocking international waterways or building walls, etc. (we don't tolerate the rethugs talking that BS about Mexico so we shouldn't do that in this case either)

Anyway, I think it's an idea that would be worth discussing rationally as adults.

[Texasgal]

52. 41% went for Obama

Stop this bullshit.

[kentauros]

80. Unfortunately,

I think there are as many backwards-thinking DUers as there are republicans in Texas...

[BlueMan Votes]

55. is the petition meant for people in texas, or people in the rest of the country?

i'm in IL, but i'll gladly sign.

[ceejdre82]

58. I remember during the 2004 election....

it may have been on the old DU site, that a person posted a link or conversation with a crazy Texan that wanted to succeed. The woman went on and on about how Texas would do so well because they have oil and NASA. The woman quit her arguing with the poster when they said..."uh, NASA is a federally funded association.." as well as some other facts about oil....I so wish I could remember the whole thing, detail for detail...it was so great to see the woman be told she was stupid and wrong, but in intelligent wording she probably needed a translator to understand!

[democrattotheend]

60. Show me where to sign

Or do I have to be from Texas?

[Great Caesars Ghost]

69. Louisiana is doing the same thing.....

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-louisiana-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/1wrvtngl

[PatrickS]

71. It's almost there

Nearly 20 thousand signatures. It will probably reach the 25k goal today or tomorrow.

This petition started just 3 days ago.

[jsmirman]

73. It's still just a bunch of nutty, overly-emotional jackasses

as has been pointed out, this would be strangled in its bed by right-thinking Texans who want no part of this bullshit.

[gollygee]

72. I don't understand Republicans

They lose an election so they decide to take their ball and leave the ball field? GROW UP. Get a better candidate next time, try running against our candidate instead of against the majority of the population (women, minorities, 47%, LGBT), and maybe you'll do better.

[PatrickS]

75. 25k signatures

The Texas petition got 25k signatures.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B

[ceile]

76. w/a total population nearing 26 million.

25K wingnuts are nuthin'. We're not going anywhere...

[PatrickS]

77. Of course but...

...the petition needed 25k signatures for the White House to acknowledge it.

[kentauros]

81. Acknowledging it is one thing.

Doing something about it is quite another. Hopefully, what they do about it is put it in the shredder and recycle it into compost where it belongs

[sakabatou]

82. Olbermann was on this years ago