Want to carry a gun? Come to Florida. (Or a few other red states.)

[Cyrano]

An acquaintance of mine carries a concealed gun. Always. He's not a MAGA, he's rational and reasonable, he votes as an Independent, and I asked him why he always carried a gun. His answer was, "Just in case."

[His answer, "Just in case," reminded me of the classic film, "The Deer Hunter." One of the characters used those exact words to explain why he always carried a gun.]

There was no other reason that my acquaintance suggested. "Just in case," was his justification. I have no doubt he sees himself as "a good guy with a gun."

I asked him what he would do if he found himself in the middle of a mass shooting in a school, a church, a restaurant, or wherever. His answer was "I'd try to stop the bad guy."

Then I asked him, "What if the police arrive on the scene and see you holding a gun? How will they tell the "good guy" from the "bad guy?" The question seemed to confuse him, and I never got an answer.

Here in Florida, Gov. DeSantis has signed a bill that, as of July 1st, anyone can carry a concealed weapon with no license and no training. I've been wondering how anyone is going to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys." And I'm also wondering how may people will die for no reason at all because of this insane law.

[CatWoman]

1. my baby brother lives in Houston and his biggest fear is getting shot just for breathing

[anciano]

5. Totally can relate .....

I live in Sugar Land near Houston and fear of gun violence is a part of our reality now.

[CatWoman]

21. Isn't that Tom DeLay country?

[anciano]

25. Yes, from 1985 to 2006.

Current rep is Repub Troy Nehls, so we Democrats here need to GOTV in 2024!
Best wishes to you and your brother. 🙏

[moondust]

2. In addition,

this site says: Of the 393 million firearms in the U.S., only 6.06 million of them are registered.

If true then how many are in the hands of "good guys"? If the owners were "good guys" when they registered them are they still "good guys"? Weren't most mass shooters still "good guys" the morning they woke up before they committed mass murder?

[thatdemguy]

7. Registration is being miss used there.

Every gun bought from a gun store is linked to the person that bought it, but that does not mean its registered. In Maryland only handguns and other regulated firearms are registered. But the people who bought rifles are still linked to the rifle thru the paper work required when its purchased at a store.

The way it works if a gun is found the atf knows which gun store it was sold to, they then call the gun store who looks up who they sold it to. Then we wont even get in to the fairly tail idea that the ATF has a list of every gun owner. But it does seem pretty likely with how fast they know when shooters do something wrong and they announce when the person bought the gun with in a few hours.

[Cyrano]

9. What about the countless guns bought at gun "shows?"

[thatdemguy]

15. Even gun shows that have gun stores there have to do the same paperwork.

The gun store does not suddenly not have to do the paperwork at a gun show. Now yes there are probably people who ae not gun stores selling a gun there to a person. But the same way they can sell the gun at the gas station. Except some states, like Maryland all gun sales have to go thru a gun store, so every gun sold legally has a background check done. Illegal sales will always happen, does not matter what is being sold, someone will sell it illegally.

As for ghost guns, yes they are out there and a lot of em. I dont have the answer for this, or honestly a lot of stuff. In maryland they are illegal to own or buy.

I have been talking to legal gun owners lately, I am thinking about buying one. Ever single one I have spoken to, about 10, all state they follow the law fully, as they dont want to loose the ability to own guns.

To be upfront, I have been thinking about buying one, before I never have the chance. The reason for that is reading here, so many people pushing to ban guns. And the way the country is going I am thinking it might be better to have one locked away in case it ever comes to needing it.

I learned all this at a class a few weeks ago, it was basic gun class which I could not do the shooting portion because I did not have a gun to shoot.

[moondust]

11. And the ghost guns?

And the "gun show loophole," private sales, and maybe other evasions?

[thatdemguy]

16. see my previous reply

[NickB79]

35. Federal registration of guns is forbidden by law

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/owner-responsibilities/registration/

There is no comprehensive national system of gun registration. In fact, federal law prohibits the use of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to create any system of registration of firearms or firearm owners.5

A limited system of federal firearms registration was created by the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § 5801 et seq. The National Firearms Act (NFA) was enacted in 1934 to impose an excise tax and registration requirements on a narrow category of firearms, including machine guns, short-barreled shotguns or rifles, and silencers, and these weapons must also be registered under the NFA.6

In 1986, Congress banned the transfer and possession of machine guns not already in lawful circulation.7 Machine guns that were lawfully owned prior to the ban’s effective date may continue to be owned and transferred provided they are registered in accordance with requirements of the National Firearms Act.8 It is also unlawful for a licensed dealer to sell a short-barreled rifle or shotgun to any person, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity.9

With its provisions effectively limited to pre-ban machine guns and transfers of short-barreled rifles and shotguns that are specifically authorized by the attorney general, the registration system created by the National Firearms Act falls far short of a comprehensive registration system.

I own 9 firearms, all for hunting and target shooting. I live in Minnesota, a liberal bastion surrounded by red states. All were bought through licensed gun stores, all had federal background checks done before purchase. None of my firearms are registered, simply because there is no law requiring it. So I'm not surprised that the vast majority of guns in this country aren't on any registry.

[moondust]

40. Oh yes.

Gun registration is the work of Satan.

Looks like New York requires a license for handguns and some other states have other registration requirements.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/owner-responsibilities/registration/

Unlike more civilized Australia, where:

A person must have a firearm licence to possess or use a firearm. Licence holders must demonstrate a "genuine reason" (which does not include self-defence) for holding a firearm licence[2] and must not be a "prohibited person". All firearms must be registered by serial number to the owner, who must also hold a firearms licence.
~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia

[thatdemguy]

3. Actually 26 states.

Also look up the stats for lawful concealed carriers hitting innocent bystanders. Its less than police do, they also commit 1/12 the crimes that police do.

[Cyrano]

8. Link to statistics?

Also, I'm not sure of the point you're making. Could you be more specific?

[thatdemguy]

13. I cant fine the exact one I was shown but

according to https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/PublicTestimonyDocument/6128 this oregon legislature paper its lawful permit holder are 1/6 as likely to commit a crime as a police officer. I was shown a chart that showed the police are convicted at 12 times the rate for commiting a crime than lawful gun carriers.

Also if you look at the rates, esp NY city police, police are more likely to hit an innocent bystander than a ccw person is going to. I will attribute this to when police are shooting its normally a much more chaotic situation than a ccw stopping someone from robbing them. A civilian might fire 3 rounds when police fire many many more.

[AndyS]

19. Well, ya' see there's a flaw in that. If you limit it to

lawful concealed carriers that eliminates the concealed carriers that were lawful right up to the point that they shot the wrong person at which point they aren't lawful anymore.

[thatdemguy]

22. No that is not how it worked

It means crimes committed by lawful carriers. AKA they would have to be a lawful carryier person who them committed a crime to be counted. It does not kick them out as soon as they commit the crime, if that was true it would be zero.

[AndyS]

26. That's the result I get when I search for law abiding citizens who commit murder. 0.

And yes, that is the way it works. If a CC shoots someone in a legal manner it's counted as a Legal CC shooting. If not, it's not a legal CC because they committed a crime and are no longer a legal CC.

Someone who passes a background check to buy a gun, like 70% of mass shooters, are law abiding right up to the point they shoot the first victim. Then they're criminals.

Go ahead, research how many murders are committed by law abiding citizens. Tell me what 'cha find.

[thatdemguy]

31. well per this washington post article its 2 out of 10 gun crimes are legal gun owners.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/27/new-evidence-confirms-what-gun-rights-advocates-have-been-saying-for-a-long-time-about-crime/

I know thats not murderers or ccw permit holder. So we start off with 20% are legal gun owners committing gun crimes, even if we assumed 1/2 had a permit thats less than 10% of gun crimes where permit holders. I would bet its a lot lower than that.

[AndyS]

33. Again you're jacking with the numbers.

You are singling our a tiny % of people (CC holders) and comparing tem to the population at large. I could do the same with people who have toenail fungus.

Meanwhile a 2023 review by the RAND Corporation concluded there is supportive evidence that shall-issue concealed carry laws are associated with increased firearm homicides and total homicides. In other words when it is easier to get a CC the homicide rate increases. I assume easier = more. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2088-1.html

[thatdemguy]

50. well considering the this thread was about carrying a gun, then I

am limiting it to ccw.

You need to ask your self the question. Are the people who are legally carrying committing the homicides, not any, but the actual increased amount?

If yes then you win the argument.

If no, but yet the homicides are going up, why are they going up? Is it people stealing the gun leading up to it, ie breaking the law and then selling or using the gun that is used to murder someone?
-If no, then where are they coming from? and you cant blame the people with a ccw.
-If yes, then lets push for more safe storage laws, which I agree with 100%. Lets make it a crime to have an unsecured handgun in a car, if it gets stolen you get a 1000 buck fine. And think about restrictions on ccw, but again its still not the person with the ccw.

The blanket its the guns statements and ban them all statements are why I have been reading and took an introductory class. Figured the more I know would let me make an informed decision if I want to get a gun. As I said it might be better to get one while I can and lock it up, then not be able to get it later if I need it.

[AndyS]

55. Okay, let me leave all the snark aside.

The data says that more CCW leads to more homicides. The data says that Stand Your Ground leads to more homicides. The data says that more guns in any population leads to more homicides. The data says that having a gun in the home increases the risk of gun death. The data says that having a gun during an armed robbery makes you 5x more likely to be shot.

That's just hard data. That's science. All the machinations about safe storage and background checks and training and bla bla bla is just dancing around the facts. It's like controlling a Genie instead of putting it back in the bottle.

Guns, the shear number of them and the idea that they somehow make you safer is the Genie.

If you don't own a gun, don't get one. It's not going to make you safer. You can't accidentally shoot someone with a gun you don't have. A gun you don't have won't go off while you're cleaning it. A gun you don't have won't be stolen. A gun you don't have won't be found by a child, yours or someone else, and hurt them.

I speak from my heart. If you believe in science and data and history for God's sake don't get a gun.

[Bev54]

45. Nobody should be walking around with a gun and other than for hunting and target

shooting (and they should be locked in a guns safe when not being used) nobody should need a gun. It is beyond ridiculous that this is even a discussion, just get rid of the guns. If the guns are illegal, it is easier for the cops to arrest someone for having one in their possession, unless with a special permit. I cannot even imagine living in a country that allows their children, and other innocents to die for the right to carry their penis extenders. For Christ's sake just buy a big truck or fancy car like the short dick men in other countries do.

[thatdemguy]

52. This is right up there with make drugs illegal

If anyone has drugs on them then arrest em. This has gone so well for POC, both in the drugs and guns. You cant ban guns at this point, sure the ones who have legal guns, some may turn them in, some will hide em. But the people who use guns to commit crimes most of the time dont have them legally anyway, why would they turn them in. The people willing to go shoot someone would not care about breaking the law about not having a permit to own it.

A very small % of the country are willing to use a gun to kill someone ( not justified ), and the ones that do use them will still do it no matter if guns are illegal.

[Bev54]

54. The number of people killed by guns in the US invalidates that argument

The comparison to other countries that have strict regulations on guns has proven that less guns means less gun deaths. The problem is it seems you, as a population, are willing to live with all these deaths, to protect some stupid 2nd amendment that does not even give the rights to individuals to carry guns. You will never change it and it will only get worse if people refuse to accept it and get angry enough to do something about it.

[sarisataka]

4. I believe the number of states with permit less carry

Is up to 27. (BTW they are not all red)

[AndyS]

20. Yep and they all seem to see an increase of 10-15% in homicides in the two years following

the permitless carry. Who'da thought??

[thatdemguy]

27. From what I was shown that

Deals with the idiots who leave them in their car. There should be a law if you leave the gun in your car it needs to be secured and if its stolen and used you should have some liability even if it just breaking that law.

Also was stated that the more places that say you cant carry the more likely it will be left in a car to be stolen. Which does explain why there is a time delay from when the law changes to when the violent crime goes up. More people get permits, over time more guns stolen if they are left in cars. The example I saw was a person can carry everywhere, except their grocery store. They stop on the way home to get dinner, they leave the gun in their car, get dinner and go home. Very good chance they will just leave the gun in their car.

[AndyS]

28. Nope it's the guns.

Just like a Stand Your Ground law results in similar increases in homicide rates.

Thanks for gun 'splaining for us tho . . .

[thatdemguy]

32. If it was just the guns then the US should top the charts

yet we are not even in top 75, infact we are 76 in the world.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

[AndyS]

36. Okay comparing the US to countries with open rebellion is kinda' skewing the numbers

doncha' think?

But I'll grant you it's not just the guns. It's also the poor paranoiacs who think guns make them safer in spite of every piece of credible data available.

[sarisataka]

34. I haven't seen a state by state breakdown

But it wouldn't surprise me that there would be an increase

[usonian]

6. Soldiers are required to wear uniforms, movie cowboys wear white or black hats.

You pose a dangerous and likely scenario.

Who's the bad guy?

[Cyrano]

10. He always has a sneer and/or a cigarette holder?

[usonian]

24. Cigarettes will kill you if Bond doesn't.

But he's quicker.

[Kaleva]

12. 16 y/olds can conceal carry w/o a permit in Vermont

Vermont is never mentioned in OPd about oermitless carry

[Cyrano]

14. So this makes carrying a concealed gun without a permit okay???

Sorry to be a prick about this, but Florida ain't Vermont. And it has nothing to do with snow and ski slopes.

[Kaleva]

23. Florida is stricter about gun control then Vermont yet no one blasts Vermont

Why?

[AndyS]

29. There are outliers in all circumstances. The difference in most of them is that

most cases people don't cling to the one instance to try to negate the vast majority of data.

[former9thward]

53. Neither Florida or Vermont are outliers.

About 26 states have the same law or close to to as VT or FL. Where is all the chaos predicted -- since there is a "vast majority of data"?

[AndyS]

56. Well, Vermont which is the gunner touch stone is no great shakes.

It's just a little below the national average on deaths/100k. So, no, it's not an outlier. It's just another state when it comes to dying from guns.

National average is ~14/100k and Vermont is 11. States with strict gun laws have lower death rates. That's just simple fact. It's science and data.

So once again, the vast majority of data says fewer guns and more restrictions on guns results in lower death and injury rates.

Guns do not make you safer in any circumstance or under any conditions.

[bronxiteforever]

39. I am curious. What would be your answer?

[Kaleva]

57. Vermont is one of us and gets a pass.

People here aren't going to attack a reliably blue state for it's lax gun control laws

[dickthegrouch]

17. Death Sentence living up to his name

He is complicit in every injury and death that results from this insanity.
Real karma would be him being a victim.

I think every gun owner should have to raise their right hand in front of the muzzle of the intended purchase, or existing weapons, and swear never to injure a person. Based on science similar to a lie detector, the gun would fire.
Yes, the more weapons they own, the more chances to prove their intentions are honorable.

[TheBlackAdder]

18. Those states will become magnets for thosew who wish to do harm to others and get away with it.

[Aristus]

30. Yeah, they're never able to answer the 'how do the cops know you're not the shooter?' scenario.

It's the "I'm a good guy with a gun because I say so" mentality.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

37. No, not anyone is allowed to carry (or even possess) a gun in FL

Here in Florida, Gov. DeSantis has signed a bill that, as of July 1st, anyone can carry a concealed weapon with no license and no training.

Wrong. federal prohibitions against firearm possession still apply:

No convicted felons.
No one convicted of domestic violence, including a misdemeanor.
No (federally) illegal drug users.

This must include hundreds of thousands of people in a state as populous as FL.

[Bev54]

44. If the bad guys can't carry guns, then why do the "good guys" think they need to carry.

It is all total BS.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

46. The OP is about a new law eliminating the permit requirement to carry a concealed firearm.

The law doesn't require anyone to carry a firearm and it definitely isn't going to provide free guns to anyone. It's possible that everyone who was legally able to carry a firearm in FL before this law was passed, and wanted to do so, was already doing it, and that not a single additional person will go to the expense and hassle of buying a gun, buying ammunition, figuring out how they're going to carry this thing, and then actually doing it.

To answer your question, I don't know why anyone would carry a concealed gun. Maybe only criminals actually do.

But I agree that all gun laws being passed today - both allowing and prohibiting - are BS. Purely political showboating.

[James48]

38. You can always spit the bad guys.

They are the ones wearing red hats.

[ForgedCrank]

41. My state

has had this law for years and there has been no measurable increase in crimes as a result.
There have been gang issues in the city, but those come and go as they beef with one another.

[Bev54]

42. Disney World or no Disney World, who the hell wants to take their kids to Florida?

[HeartachesNhangovers]

47. Parents who want them to see the Everglades - one of the greatest natural areas in the US.

[Bev54]

48. As I am Canadian, I don't find the reward worth the risk.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

51. That's actually funny since (as you may know), thousands and thousands of Canadians

flock to Florida every year. I've been twice (to see the Everglades) and was very surprised by all of the Canadian license plates on cars and RVs.

[Bev54]

59. I do know a lot of snowbirds from Canada go down to Florida, but I will not put my

grandchildren's lives at risk going to Florida. We were planning a trip to Disneyworld but that has now changed, we are considering where else to take them. I also know a lot of snowbirds that go to Arizona, many of them are my friends. So far 3 of them have decided to sell their properties there.

[Pepsidog]

43. The Deer Hunter one of the greatest movies of all time. I hate what SC has done to our country. NJ

where I live, only issued about 2,500 carry permits a year pre-Bruen. Now, thousands of carry permits are being issued and I have no doubt tragedies will follow.

[BlackSkimmer]

49. We have posters right here on DU who think they are that good guy with a gun.

I sure hope they never find out something else the hard way.

I loved The Deer Hunter back in the day. Which character said that?

[ecstatic]

58. That's my experience with gun carriers as well

When you ask questions it becomes clear almost immediately that they haven't put thought into any of the scenarios that come to mind with regard to gun use. And then their answers to how they would react in this or that scenario are always outlandish and poorly thought out.

For example, I was talking to a friend about his neighbor's home alarm going off. He said something along the lines of he would go over there with his gun to check on the situation. I said wouldn't it make more sense to call the police? And he acknowledged that yes, my idea was probably better.

It's so weird to me that someone would purchase a gun and not put any thought whatsoever into how to respond in various situations in a safe and effective way. But what I'm coming to realize is that for some people, the gun is a substitute for their brain. Sorry, just my opinion.