Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
Wed May 3, 2023, 10:55 AM May 2023

Transgender lifeguard candidate rejected by City of Jacksonville after removing top at the pool

Something scandalous happened, from the way the headline reads, right?

"It happened at the city pool at Cecil Aquatic Center during a group try-out for the job. There were children present during the exercise. The city has received complaints about the incident, though a city spokesperson said they did not have the total number of complaints. Two sources within city hall told Action New Jax that the city has chosen not to hire that applicant."

Here's the reality:

Cielo Sunsarae is a trans man. He had top surgery last year. A quick check of TikTok shows he has had facial hair for a long time. During group try-outs for public pool lifeguard jobs, Cielo TOOK OFF HIS SHIRT WITH ALL THE OTHER MEN TO GET INTO THE POOL.

But here's the statement the city released:

"This incident happened Thursday of last week at Cecil Pool. A transgender person, a female who identifies as male, removed their shirt exposing their bare breasts, and completed a portion of the training with 20 other trainees. While we cannot confirm the age of the individuals participating in the training, JaxParks recruits lifeguards starting at age 15. This occurred within view of several dozen children and their parents sharing the same pool at the same time.”

Again, Cielo has had top surgery. And he has facial hair. The only bare breasts visible in that line up of applicants who all took their shirts off to get in the pool were men's bare breasts, both by identity and appearance. But the city knew Cielo was trans, either by his scars or by doing a background check on applicants prior to the swim test.

Of course, he didn't get the job. Because he is trans. Florida doesn't care if the SCOTUS rulled a couple years ago that such discrimination is unconstitutional. If anything, like other red states they want to put a fresh case before the new, more conservative court so the law can be changed.

(I'm linking to Yahoo! only because it's incrementally less-bad than linking to Fox)
https://news.yahoo.com/transgender-lifeguard-candidate-rejected-city-205131129.html

This is what trans genocide looks like. And they won't stop with us.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Transgender lifeguard candidate rejected by City of Jacksonville after removing top at the pool (Original Post) NullTuples May 2023 OP
Should I be offended by the display of man-boobs now? Victor_c3 May 2023 #1
Only woman-boobs are offensive, even when they aren't there any more. Ocelot II May 2023 #2
how did all these people who complained know that? LymphocyteLover May 2023 #7
I was going to post a snarky response agreeing with you Ray Bruns May 2023 #9
I've got scars from breast reduction surgery. Ilsa May 2023 #3
This reminds me of an old incident. Moosepoop May 2023 #4
New York Times Magazine cover August 1993 Hela May 2023 #12
I remember that.. Demovictory9 May 2023 #13
Looking through old family photographs, men had to cover their boobs on the beach not very long ago. usonian May 2023 #5
Indeed, until 1936 NullTuples May 2023 #8
WTAF??? Who was complaining and why were they complaining? LymphocyteLover May 2023 #6
Why no photo? Sneederbunk May 2023 #10
Because that would be obscene! BWdem4life May 2023 #11
Post removed Post removed May 2023 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author ShazzieB May 2023 #15
How do you know? Were you there? Did you witness this event? ShazzieB May 2023 #16
Cielo had top surgery in December of last year. Oneironaut May 2023 #18
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2023 #19
You are correct. Sorry! Oneironaut May 2023 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2023 #23
I disagree. Quite a bit of people are instantly angered by the sight of a trans person. Oneironaut May 2023 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author sheshe2 May 2023 #20
I think that's from the poster's commentary, not from the article. sl8 May 2023 #28
You sure about that ornotna May 2023 #21
I absolutely believe you about him having had top surgery. 100% ShazzieB May 2023 #17
Not Cielo Learn2Read May 2023 #29
Welcome to DU! RussBLib May 2023 #30
welcome to DU gopiscrap May 2023 #31
Imaginary naked boobies are the most dangerous boobies of them all! hunter May 2023 #25
Americans, not all, are immature children and the sight of breasts makes them Eliot Rosewater May 2023 #26
Cielo Sunsarae is not the lifeguard Sympthsical May 2023 #27

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
1. Should I be offended by the display of man-boobs now?
Wed May 3, 2023, 11:12 AM
May 2023

Many times fat men have large breasts too and nobody cares. Maybe I should start caring…

Ocelot II

(130,572 posts)
2. Only woman-boobs are offensive, even when they aren't there any more.
Wed May 3, 2023, 11:19 AM
May 2023

See, he had them once and that's disqualifying because displaying not having woman-boobs if you once had them is just as bad. Maybe worse. But woman-boobs, whether they are actually present or not, are always obscene and never should be shown to children, even though... oh, never mind...

I suppose women who have had double mastectomies can't go topless either, because boobs were once there.

Ray Bruns

(6,380 posts)
9. I was going to post a snarky response agreeing with you
Wed May 3, 2023, 01:27 PM
May 2023

But I have already been given three strikes by the DU police

Ilsa

(64,386 posts)
3. I've got scars from breast reduction surgery.
Wed May 3, 2023, 11:19 AM
May 2023

I bet someone would love to declare that I'm a man with breast enlargement. You know, since we're basing everything on scars now.

Moosepoop

(2,075 posts)
4. This reminds me of an old incident.
Wed May 3, 2023, 11:25 AM
May 2023

Back in the nineties, a lady who had breast cancer had undergone a mastectomy of one breast. She posed for a photograph showing her chest where the breast had been. The photo was published on a magazine cover, and it caused a shitstorm!!!

Mind you, there was no breast there (and the other one was covered). There was no breast, no nipple, nothing but skin and scar.

But a bunch of people lost their minds over the "pornography" of a woman's torso -- even though there was no breast or nipple left!

There was much support for the woman and the photograph, too, but I remember the outrage over the supposed "indecency" the most. It left a real impression on me at the time.

That event helped to get mastectomy more in the open and talked about. Now you can find images of mastectomy scars all over the internet. It's no longer a thing to be ashamed of and "not talked about or seen."

Now it's male nipples on a body that was once labeled as "female" causing the outrage.

I realize that this situation is different, but in some ways... things never change.

Hela

(476 posts)
12. New York Times Magazine cover August 1993
Wed May 3, 2023, 03:30 PM
May 2023
?quality=75&auto=webp

"When the artist and activist Joanne Motichka took the self-portrait that appeared on the Aug. 15, 1993, cover of The New York Times Magazine, she was 39 years old. Ms. Motichka — who goes, Cher-like, by Matuschka — had been told she had breast cancer at 37 and had undergone a mastectomy and six months of chemotherapy.

[snip]

When the photograph appeared on the cover, it received one of the largest responses in the history of The Times Magazine. “Nothing had caused quite as much of a stir,” Ms. Froelich said. “It was one of the all-time most controversial, and a gatherer of a lot of letter writing.”

[snip]

Mail from readers arrived at the magazine by the cartload: thousands of letters from men and women, some who identified with the cancer survivor on the cover, and others who objected to what they felt was too negative a portrayal.

[snip]

But the response to the bold photograph was largely positive. “I applaud you for your courage and commitment to issues that affect us all,” one reader wrote, adding that the cover image “was the most powerful I have seen on any magazine.” "

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/15/insider/breast-cancer-mastectomy-photo.html

usonian

(25,393 posts)
5. Looking through old family photographs, men had to cover their boobs on the beach not very long ago.
Wed May 3, 2023, 11:28 AM
May 2023

30's or 40's? (the year)
Blue laws, too!

BWdem4life

(3,005 posts)
11. Because that would be obscene!
Wed May 3, 2023, 01:54 PM
May 2023


And probably be flagged as obscene by algorithms that would then hide the article from search results.

Can't look at reality, you know. Don't show graphic pics of dead soldiers or chests / breasts that used to be female.

Response to NullTuples (Original post)

Response to Post removed (Reply #14)

Oneironaut

(6,301 posts)
18. Cielo had top surgery in December of last year.
Wed May 3, 2023, 05:31 PM
May 2023

He has regular man-sized breasts. It is you who is clueless.

Response to Oneironaut (Reply #18)

Oneironaut

(6,301 posts)
22. You are correct. Sorry!
Wed May 3, 2023, 05:38 PM
May 2023


And, furthermore, I don’t agree with just letting breasts hang out. Obviously, if true, that changes the story a lot.

My position now is to seek further clarification, honestly hoping that this won’t be used as ammo against trans people by those who hate us.

Response to Oneironaut (Reply #22)

Oneironaut

(6,301 posts)
24. I disagree. Quite a bit of people are instantly angered by the sight of a trans person.
Wed May 3, 2023, 05:43 PM
May 2023

However, if they didn’t know, I agree that they wouldn’t care.

Response to Post removed (Reply #14)

sl8

(17,110 posts)
28. I think that's from the poster's commentary, not from the article.
Wed May 3, 2023, 06:25 PM
May 2023

And Cielo isn't the lifeguard applicant.

ornotna

(11,491 posts)
21. You sure about that
Wed May 3, 2023, 05:34 PM
May 2023

Rereading the article I'm not sure that Cielo Sunsarae was the individual.

ShazzieB

(22,616 posts)
17. I absolutely believe you about him having had top surgery. 100%
Wed May 3, 2023, 05:29 PM
May 2023

But may I ask how you know (as it's not mentioned in the yahoo article)?.

Just asking as I'd like to have some ammunition to throw at the bigots.

Learn2Read

(1 post)
29. Not Cielo
Thu May 4, 2023, 07:52 AM
May 2023

quote directly from the Yahoo Article

This individual here was coming for a position to protect the children and people at the pool, they came here for one person and were denied for another reason completely not related to it,” Sunsarae said.

so..unless Sunsarae refers to themselves as "this individual" it's not them ...ergo all the arguments made citing, Cielo Sunsarae as the denied lifeguard, are invalid.

Now maybe the denied lifeguard has had top surgery, in which case it would seem to me unfair, but the article also referred to them as "bare breasts" as opposed to a bare chest.

Finally, The lifeguard could be as young as 15. Imagine if a cisgender girl under age 18 exposed her breasts. In addition to being exposed to the children at the pool, the exposed person would also be underage, a child themselves, which would seem to be a double liability for the pools.

Eliot Rosewater

(34,285 posts)
26. Americans, not all, are immature children and the sight of breasts makes them
Wed May 3, 2023, 05:56 PM
May 2023

uncomfortable.

Idiots.

Sympthsical

(10,972 posts)
27. Cielo Sunsarae is not the lifeguard
Wed May 3, 2023, 06:14 PM
May 2023

He is the executive director and founder of the Queer Trans Project and the person discussing the issue with the media.

The lifeguard being discussed hasn't had top surgery.

The dispute is over exposing female breasts in front of children.

(Unrelated, Cielo has to be one of my top five favorite names)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Transgender lifeguard can...