General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI absolutely f*****g HATE that TFG is going to be in the history books as POTUS.
But I really love that he is going to be bookended by two good-looking, smart, physically fit, charming, personable, and progressive Presidents.
As much as the MAGAts want to change the history books, they really aren't going to be able to do anything about that.
reymega life
(675 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)mnmoderatedem
(3,729 posts)that no one talks about at family reunions
Rhiannon12866
(206,157 posts)It's like a bad movie that is so far fetched that it would be rejected as unbelievable.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,207 posts)You'll find one fella from 1934-1945 who I'm sure most modern day Germans feel the same about.
It's in the history books. But I doubt his portrait is the German Chancellory.
debm55
(25,466 posts)guess his face will always be included in the list of pictures.
Aristus
(66,467 posts)I mean, there are some pretty rotten people in that picture collection; Richard Nixon, Andrew Johnson, etc. But somehow, Trump just seems to plumb new depths in Presidential awfulness.
Dan
(3,580 posts)I wonder at what point will the TRUMPS change their names?
And at point will the millions that voted for him - start to deny doing so?
Aristus
(66,467 posts)I'm too young to remember, but people have told me stories about former Nixonians going out to scrape the bumper sticker off their cars right after his resignation speech.
It's been two and a half years, and MAGAts are still lining up hoping to get groped by the (as the Scots say) festering shitweasel.
walkingman
(7,671 posts)Dan
(3,580 posts)But just imagine the history books, being read in school (assuming we still have a public education system):
Trump - President:
1. Impeached twice by the House but not by the Senate.
2. Civil Case - were convicted as a rapist.
3. Supported Americas adversaries over his own Intelligent Agencies.
4. Tried to overthrow the government.
5. Publicly lied to the public over 30,000 times
6. Over 3000 lawsuits for things like non-payments
7. Pictures of his current wife - in all her glory.
9. Convicted with his father of racist actions again minorities in his housing projects..
And thats just the start of the history reading lesson
Shermann
(7,446 posts)* Impeached in 2019
* Impeached in 2021
spanone
(135,888 posts)NJCher
(35,750 posts)Then we can add the other 18 other sexual assaults.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,380 posts)That he will NEVER have a Naval vessel named after him nor will there be any kind of permanent monument to him in DC.
The US Navy tends to shy away from naming things after disgraced former presidents and no one in their right mind would consider building something honoring him that shares the same acreage as the Lincoln Memorial or the Jefferson Memorial.
madamesilverspurs
(15,809 posts)It was bad enough when they deified Reagan, no surprise that they named a ship after that weasel. Our sailors deserve to have honorable decks beneath their feet, no member of any military branch should have to wipe their feet clean of trump's name.
.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,380 posts)It also makes me proud that they named a Nuclear Submarine after Jimmy Carter. It's perfectly appropriate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter
I've said this before, but the only proper monument to TFG would be something along the lines of the Benedict Arnold Boot monument. It doesn't even name him;
Rhiannon12866
(206,157 posts)My grandmother grew up in Schuylerville and was also big on history, so she took us kids to visit the Revolutionary War monument there many times. The Schuylerville Monument has four windows, one on each side, containing statues of those considered the greatest Revolutionary War heroes - and the one that was supposed to contain Benedict Arnold remains empty:
marble falls
(57,288 posts)Aristus
(66,467 posts)Granted, it gave us Calvin Coolidge. But at least it spared us a second Harding term.
marble falls
(57,288 posts)From Wiki.
Florence first married Pete De Wolfe and had a son, Marshall. After divorcing him, she married the somewhat-younger Harding when he was a newspaper publisher in Ohio, and she was acknowledged as the brains behind the business. Known as The Duchess, she adapted well to the White House, where she gave notably elegant parties.
Aiming to become a concert pianist, Florence began studies at the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music after graduating from high school in 1878. As she recalled, she spent seven hours per day on the piano for three years, once playing until her finger bled. On return trips to Marion, Florence often clashed with her father, who would whip her with a cherry switch.[4] At the age of 19 she eloped with Henry Atherton ("Pete" De Wolfe (4 May 1859, Marion 8 March 1894, Marion) and they were married in Columbus, Ohio, on January 22, 1880.[5] A record of the issuance of their marriage license was printed in The Marion Star.[6] Florence gave birth to her only child, Marshall Eugene, on September 22, 1880. Her husband worked in a warehouse but alcoholism led him to abandon the family on December 31, 1882. Florence moved in with her friend Carrie Wallace while her mother Louisa financially supported the mother and child.[7] Florence became a piano teacher to provide extra income and enjoyed skating at night. Her estranged husband had attempted to rob a train in 1885, and the pair were divorced in 1886.[8]
Eventually, Amos Kling offered to adopt Marshall but would not provide for his daughter. As a result, Marshall adopted the Kling surname despite not being legally adopted. This freed Florence for other romantic flings, and she soon met Warren Gamaliel Harding, owner of the Marion Star. He was five years younger than she was, and his sister Charity was a student of Florence's. Soon the Marion Star reported on Florence's trips to Yellowstone National Park with her mother and Warren Harding. Harding and Florence became a couple by the summer of 1886.[9] Who was pursuing whom is uncertain, depending on who later told the story of their romance.[10]
In 1890, Florence became engaged to Warren Harding. They married on July 8, 1891, opposed by her father, who thought Warren Harding was using her to climb the social ladder and had a wealthier suitor in mind for his daughter. He repeated a rumor that Harding had Black ancestry and threatened to shoot the young man at the courthouse.[11] After the wedding, which Florence's mother secretly attended, the couple embarked on a honeymoon tour of Chicago, St. Paul, Yellowstone, and the Great Lakes. The new Mrs. Harding made the unconventional decision not to wear a wedding ring.[12] Warren referred to her as "the boss", while she affectionately called him "Sonny."[13]
They had no children of their own, but Florence's son Marshall lived with them intermittently and received encouragement from Warren to work in journalism.[14] When her husband entered the Battle Creek Sanitarium for depression in January 1894, Florence became the informal business manager of the Marion Star although she never had any official role, immediately demonstrating both the talent and the character to run a newspaper.[15] She organized a circulation department, improved distribution, trained the newsboys, and purchased equipment at keen prices. Her newsboys became known as "Mrs. Harding's boys" throughout the town, and she alternatively gave out awards for achievement and doled out physical punishment. Some Marion children began to fear Florence for paddling the boys in the street. One of the newsboys, Norman Thomas, later the Socialist presidential candidate, declared that Warren was the front-man, but Florence was the real driving power of the Marion Star.[16]
Warren returned to work on the Star in December 1894 though Florence continued to nurse him at home. After the SpanishAmerican War broke out in 1898, Florence was instrumental in developing the first wire report. Although she never wrote any articles, she did suggest stories based on leads she had, particularly stories to appeal to women. She hired the first woman reporter in Ohio, Jane Dixon, and supported her when there was a backlash from the people of Marion. Through Florence's leadership, the Star prospered and increased its revenue. She also knew about the machinery of the newspaper plant and how to fix it. Though Warren was not particularly supportive of women's rights at the time, belittling rallies for temperance, he greatly appreciated his wife's help at the office and respected her frank opinions.[17] Florence wrote of her husband, "he does well when he listens to me and poorly when he does not."[18]
During her convalescence, Warren began an affair with a close friend of hers, Carrie Phillips, who had recently lost a child.[22] Florence did not find out until she intercepted a letter between the two in 1911, which led her to consider divorce, though she never pursued it. Apparently, she considered herself too invested in her husband's career to leave him, though her discovery of the affair did not end it. It was one of several adulterous escapades that Warren embarked upon, of which Florence found herself increasingly resigned though she expressed her disapproval. She tried to discourage the affairs by sticking by her husband's side at all times.[23] Florence never spoke to Carrie Phillips again, and only acknowledged her in bitter attacks.[24]
Warren and Florence left for a trip to Europe in August 1911. During her stay in England, Florence began to sympathize with women leading protests and became an ardent suffragette. When she returned to America, she went to a rally for women's right to vote in Columbus. Despite her feelings on the matter, Florence remained silent on women's suffrage during the 1912 election.[25] She continued to be treated by Dr. Sawyer at his new White Oaks Sanitarium for various ailments and deepened her study of astrology. Florence also gave her husband advice on his political chances, discouraging a run for governor in 1912. Instead, she had her sights set on Washington, D.C., and Warren broadened his national reputation by very publicly supporting William Howard Taft at the Republican convention. After Taft was defeated by Woodrow Wilson in the election, Warren sought solace by writing poetry to Carrie Phillips.[26]
Florence worked to protect the image of herself and Warren, concealing his drinking, womanizing, and corruption in the cabinet. She insisted on being beside him and once told him to get back to work when he was golfing. She was concerned as to her husband's personal safety, partially because of Madame Marcia's prediction of his early demise. Despite the fact there were no public revelations of her meeting with the psychic since the 1920 campaign, the consultations continued in earnest, and Marcia was even invited to the White House. Florence relied on astrology to determine Warren's personal schedule, a fact that became known to many in his inner circle. She also feared his susceptibility to blackmail since the Carrie Phillips debacle.[58] After returning from Japan in 1921, Phillips visited Warren at the White House, much to the chagrin of Florence. Several other women also received money from the President, and Florence employed Gaston Means to spy on Nan Britton to steal her love letters.[59]
A trip to Alaska which Florence eagerly anticipated was planned for the summer of 1921 but had to be postponed in lieu of the work obligations. Instead, the Hardings took a cruise through New England and periodical motor trips. Florence developed a thrill for fast driving, nearly having an accident at fifty miles an hour when her car veered toward a telephone pole. The Budget Bureau director criticized her for this, which she simply shrugged off. She was an avid theatergoer, particularly comedies and musicals. Warren, on the other hand, preferred to watch strippers.[60]
Florence insisted her family spend Christmas 1921 with the McLeans after hearing about a bomb threat against Warren. Bombs intended for the President were found the next day, making Florence appear wise in retrospect. By the end of Harding's first year in office, newspapers wrote assessments of his performance, largely praising Florence's role in the administration. However, negativity against her appeared after a House Appropriations Committee hearing found that the $50,000 budget for the White House had been almost completely spent, largely due to her entertaining so many people and reopening the grounds to tourists. The head groundskeeper estimated that it would cost $3000 to repair the greenhouses due to how many flowers Florence displayed in the White House. Throughout the winter, Florence was eager to join Evalyn in Florida, but when they arrived Warren continued his womanizing publicly, to the chagrin of his wife.[72]
By 1923, both Florence and her husband were suffering from dangerous illnesses, but still undertook a coast-to-coast rail tour, which they called the Voyage of Understanding. Florence proved highly popular at their many scheduled stops, but Warren was visibly ailing. After falling seriously ill while visiting British Columbia, Harding died at the Palace Hotel in San Francisco on August 2, 1923.
On this tour, Warren had been under the care of Charles Sawyer, who is believed to have misdiagnosed the President's condition, and administered stimulants that brought on his fatal heart attack[dubious discuss]. As Florence did not request an autopsy and also destroyed many of his papers, a controversial theory was put forward in a semi-fictional book The Strange Death of President Harding, claiming that Florence had poisoned her husband. However, this claim was soon debunked.[83]
ITAL
(645 posts)Has all been disproven many times, but it still continues to pop up.
First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...after Wilson--who was not a particularly decent or magnanimous man--let him rot in jail, even while Debs was running for President in 1920 and getting a million votes. Harding had his personal faults, like many people, but he genuinely hated war and did his best to get the world to disarm. As a man and President, he was miles above Trump.
marble falls
(57,288 posts)Scandals of Warren G. Harding
The nation plunged into mourning, little suspecting that the beloved leader they eulogized as an ideal American would soon be revealed to have been the head of the most corrupt administration in the nations history. Senate investigations uncovered Forbess illegal financial dealings at the Veterans Bureau and pointed to Daughertys collusion with the Ohio Gang. Far more serious was the unfolding of the Teapot Dome Scandal. In 1921 Interior Secretary Albert Fall had persuaded Harding to transfer authority over two of the nations most important oil reservesElk Hills in California and Teapot Dome in Wyomingfrom the Navy Department to the Department of the Interior. Fall then leased these reserves to private oil companies, netting for himself several hundreds of thousands of dollars in gifts and loans. Fall and Forbes later received jail sentences for their crimes; Daugherty twice went on trial, the first resulting in a hung jury and the second in a not guilty verdict.
Harding was never personally implicated in the scandals, but he was aware of the actions of Forbes, Smith, and the Ohio Gang and failed to bring their corruption to light. By the mid-1920s the public began to regard Harding as a man who simply did not measure up to the responsibilities of his high office. Rumours of his heavy drinking in the White House (at a time when Prohibition was the law of the land) and of his involvement in extramarital affairs further degraded his reputation. In 1927 Nan Britton published The Presidents Daughter, in which she claimed that in 1919 she had given birth to a child fathered by the future president. In 2015 genealogists announced that DNA tests showed that Harding was the biological father. Although historians have challenged the veracity of other allegations made against him, most of them agree that he was the least capable of the nations chief executives.
COL Mustard
(5,929 posts)In all its glory.....
Conjuay
(1,410 posts)The hull should be 'christened' with a bottle of woodworms.
Silent3
(15,284 posts)But alas, there are still too many idiots who have seen exactly what Trump was like as President, yet are ready to give him another shot.
NJCher
(35,750 posts)That's one thing we can thank trump for: he showed us that around 25% of the population is as scummy as he is.
Forget these people and work on the independent vote.
Silent3
(15,284 posts)...aren't any happier with Biden. That many people who fail to see how enormously, hugely better Biden is than Trump.
This is a tragedy. Once again, our future will depend on the wobbling preferences of a few percentage points of our population.
In a sane world Biden would coast to victory over Trump.
But being convicted of sexual assault is a whole other thing. I do believe she will get her verdict. I listened to a number of legal podcasts yesterday and they think so, too.
And dont forget: there are 18 other assaults.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Life is too short.
There's nothing that can be done about TFG. He's in the history books, for many reasons. The GOP won the House by 3+ million votes, nationally.
Some politicians are awesome and some are jackals but that's just the way it is.
My father used to say "It is what it is"...
I always disliked when he said it but it's true. Just go with it.
Instead of investing hours of your day with hatred... read a book, try out a new recipe, go on a trip, watch a classic movie, learn something new...
Just a couple days ago, after nearly 60 years on the planet I learned that if you have a vase with cut hydrangeas and they get wilty...
You can submerse the heads in warm water and they pop back up just like new. One of the few flowers that absorb water through the blooms.
Politics is like sports, watch the game and cheer your team on but after the game, live your best life.
NJCher
(35,750 posts)He said he hates [it] that trump's picture will be hanging along with the other presidents.
It's an expression. Some people say they hate "it" and others drop the it. They do the same thing with "love."
Whole different thing than thinking the OP is spending his time hating.
You misread the post.
Chainfire
(17,647 posts)of this century.
Aussie105
(5,437 posts)devoting space to past presidents will either leave the Trump pages blank or use it to list what went wrong and act as a guide as to how to avoid the same mistakes in the future.
I'm hopeful.
cilla4progress
(24,779 posts)dflprincess
(28,082 posts)* lost the popular vote both times he ran.
GP6971
(31,222 posts)has a presidential library. He would have to raise funds for it so it probably wouldn't do it. Then again, he could raise funds and grift off it.
electric_blue68
(14,953 posts)Poiuyt
(18,130 posts)My guess is that historians will come around to labeling him as the worst president in our history (though right now Buchanan and A. Johnson are listed as being worse). I can't imaging how anyone could not rank Trump as the absolute worst. Maybe if he is indicted and convicted of more presidential crimes, that will be enough to rank him last.
Of course, he could be reelected as president next year. How will that affect things?
DemocraticPatriot
(4,428 posts)goes "in the history books"!
(And history will show that he should have been CONVICTED AND REMOVED in BOTH cases,
if it were not for senators voting their party rather than the merits of the cases...)
NJCher
(35,750 posts)I agree that it is distasteful to think of this crook's picture on the wall along with the other presidents, many of whom were truly great, like Lincoln, FDR, and Carter.
He is not presidential material. He doesn't belong there.
But hey, at some point I guess we have to look at the law of averages. Life doesn't allow anyone to bat 100% all the time. We got this schmuck and his picture is going to be there to remind us for the foreseeable future that our system isn't perfect.
I once heard an activist say that it can be helpful to think of America as a work in progress. We have some noble goals, but we have people like trump who have set us back in a big way.
Two steps forward, one step back, although in this case it seems like he set us three steps back, period.
However, as a poster upthread says, we will survive the orange gibbon.
SKKY
(11,824 posts)electric_blue68
(14,953 posts)(I think from The New Yorker)
Year ?2075
Father and son riding in an elevator in a ?60 story building.
Son to Dad: "Dad, why is there No 45th Floor?".
betsuni
(25,660 posts)So many books about Trump, few about the perfect storm of 2016 attacks from all sides against Democrats. Automatic blaming Democrats and as if the 2016 election was all about Hillary and the propaganda cartoon villain they created. That's what I hate. American voters did that.
Tickle
(2,549 posts)I suspect he'll be studied in years to come for being so polarized on both sides. I'll predict some will be pro and others not.