Do you make an active shooter plan when in public spaces?

[ecstatic]

I just watched a video that seems to be pretty informative and thorough, but the problem is, if I have to plan exit routes and hiding places every time I'm in a public place, I'm not going to want to leave the house. I don't want to be a fearful, paranoid person, but at the same time, I'm in a state where you don't even have to have a license to carry anymore. The floodgates are open.

What do you think? Is this premature or should we all have an active shooter plan right now? Do you agree with this guy's advice? I don't want to live in a country where I need an active shooter plan.

39 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	9 (23%)
	No
	28 (72%)
	Not sure
	0 (0%)
	Other
	2 (5%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[BigmanPigman]

1. No, but I sure did when I was a teacher.

[Jack the Greater]

2. Doesn't everyone?

I pay particular attention to people who pay me no mind.

[brooklynite]

42. No everyone doesn't

Just as most police never fire a weapon in their career (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/), the vast majority of people will never encounter a shooter. I don’t propose to live life fearing the world around me.

[sarisataka]

3. I stay aware of my surroundings.

If I see trouble starting, I depart the area.

[mitch96]

6. +1.. Walk in and check where the exits are. If sitting face the front. I don't like crowds..

Shooters like crowds...YMMV
m

[Cosmocat]

26. Same

I am not someone who lives in my fears, but going back many years now, when I go to restaurants, I always try to sit facing the door, and have an awareness of where they exists are, places to go to immediately get out of sight, things to use to try to take someone out if it came to that.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

4. That's the point

Of the stochastic terrorism...

[NewHendoLib]

5. No. I refuse to live in fear.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. Buckling your seatbelt isn't "living in fear", it is common sense.

Having a plan isn't 'living in fear' either, it is simply understanding the time we live in, sadly, necessitates such actions.

[Kaleva]

36. The prepared don't live in fear

[liberalmuse]

7. Rarely.

But when I was walking the dogs in the park last week this kid passed me and I had the weird thought about what I'd do if he whipped out a gun. I felt stupid for thinking that about a random stranger, never mind a teen. When I was leaving the park I saw him with this man by the picnic tables and the guy had a fake rifle and the kid was holding a handgun. I was disgusted that this guy was teaching this kid how to shoot what looked like real guns just after a mass shooting. I felt much less guilty for having that weird thought earlier.

[jimfields33]

8. Not in a million years.

It is awful that these happen but the chances are pretty slim.

[Fla_Democrat]

9. I make an active everything plan when I go out.

A fire plan, a shooter plan, a drunk driver plan, a mob of idiots plan, a bad car wreck plan, a plan if cheaters camera crew shows up to harass the couple at the table next to me.

Only time I didn't have a plan, and it bit me in the ass was when POTUS came to the capital and I was stuck on Magnolia for 45 minutes because they had the roads blocked for the motorcade.

[ecstatic]

12. Lol. Cheaters crew plan? Really?

[Fla_Democrat]

16. The chance of it happening is low.....

but it's never zero.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. I was taught this early on in life.

Though it wasn't usually about shooting, more about fires or natural weather events, my brothers and I were always taught to understand our surroundings, memorizing the "panic" phrase, and knowing where our meet up spots were in case we were separated.

[ecstatic]

13. That makes sense. I'm really bad at that

I don't pay attention like I should. I pretty much assume that I'll be the first to go in any disaster situation or apocalypse. But I'm fine with going first in an apocalypse.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. When we had our Pride festival here, I told my husband what the plan was.

I told him where to go if we got separated, what to do if he was held hostage, and I informed him, if we had to flee, I would drive because I would use the car as a weapon if need be, I didn't think he would. Of course, the fall out was not gun-related, but death threats and now laws being passed that would jail drag queens and anyone associated with aiding the performance. If they can't get us one way, they go a different route.

[chia]

25. What's the panic phrase?

[Behind the Aegis]

48. It is a code word or phrase used in my immediate family.

It let's whoever is on the phone or in the vicinity know something is wrong, get help. It is something out of the ordinary, but not so strange, that it would be detected as a cue.

[chia]

53. Oh, thanks, understand now. What a great concept.

[Skittles]

14. I've scouted for exits before

for example, in hotels and nightclubs

but every time I go somewhere, just to appease gun humping coward pieces of SHIT, *UGH*

[bottomofthehill]

15. Always a plan, maybe not active shooter but an emergency plan that can turn into anything

And always trust your instinct. If you are not comfortable, leave.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

17. no but have had active shooter training through work: run hide fight

[Throck]

19. Yes

Same as a fire escape plan.

[Xolodno]

20. I live in California so its usually no.

With that said, it depends on the state I'm visiting. As you can imagine, lax gun law states, poor mental health services, etc. pushes them to the least likely to visit.

[sarisataka]

49. Would you worry in say

Idaho or Montana?

[Xolodno]

51. In the case of Montana...

I'd say it probably depends where. I have family out there and as such, have visited Helena, Big Sky, Anaconda, Bozeman and Whitefish. Mostly tourist areas and never seen anyone walking around with a gun. Brother in law is a gun owner, but only has hunting rifles as he does hunt which supplies a significant portion of their protein diet.

Once we visited Helena right before a relatives wedding, turned out to be a "Pride" day. Someone at the wedding later asked what I thought of it and I said "I'm from SoCal, that's just a Tuesday". He chuckled and we discussed a wine bar in downtown.

In other parts that are more rural or going to a new city for the first time, yeah I would definitely be very observant of my surroundings.

Idaho on the other hand....

When driving through, I stay in Pocatello overnight, any other stop is just for gas. I blow through the place as fast as I can. This was ages ago, but during a family camping vacation, my dad stopped at one place to pick up food, supplies, etc. After he did that, he got back in the vehicle and said he has no intention of every coming back to the state. My mom asked why, he replied "there were other shoppers holstered and had handguns in them and did not feel safe being there".

[sarisataka]

52. And yet

So far in 2023 the combined total mass shootings in those two states is zero. California has had twenty mass shootings.

I find it interesting what we perceive to be dangerous compared to what statistically is the greater danger.

[DFW]

21. Passively

I give it a passing thought, but that‘s about it. Here in Europe, we have gone through periods when one group or another of crazies were blowing up concert halls or aitports. I missed being blown up in the airports of both Frankfurt and Brussels by a couple of days. For that matter, I only escaped being poisoned at the Düsseldorf airport in 1996 because I took the day off at the last minute to accompany my wife and a girlfriend to escort six neighborhood kids to an amusement park over in the Netherlands. One of the other parents had to cancel at the last minute, so I volunteered, putting off my work appointments until the next day.

[BlueTsunami2018]

22. No but I've always looked for secondary exits.

In clubs or whatever in case of a fire or something. If a panic situation happens, you never want to head for the main exit.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. It's never a bad idea to be aware of your surroundings.

[Happy Hoosier]

24. Sometimes....

Not all the time, at least not consciously. I do, for example, know where all the places I would go if there was a active shooter at the grocery store. And I know multiple routes to get to them.

But mostly I just try to retain a good awareness of my surroundings and pay attention to what is where I am. Not active planning, per se, but an awareness. FWIW, a lot of that stemmed from when I was a fire fighter, and was constantly thinking about what I would do if there was a fire in the building I was in.

[Emile]

27. Only when I'm driving. I had idiots wave their guns

at me when I drove governed 18 wheelers. They thought I was messing with them when I couldn't speed up and get out of their way. If I had waved a gun back, I fear it would have been a shootout at the OK Corral.

[RobinA]

28. I Was Behind

a guy in a jam up situation who was waving a gun at a man driving a tanker truck. Eventually the guy tried to pass the truck on the right and the trucker blocked him. That's when stuff got ugly. This went on for a good 10 minutes with the guy trying to pass the truck and the truck blocking him. I'm not sure where the guy thought he was going to go, since it was a traffic jam, Philadelphia style. The trucker obviously called police because finally, up the road between the two lanes of stopped cars and on either side comes a bunch of cops with guns drawn. The road rager at this point was directly in front of me. Cops got him out gf the car and on the road in no time. At some points it was pretty scary driving near this rage-oholic.

[MattBaggins]

29. I make what if the zombie apocalypse

Outbreak happens right now plans

The funniest part? I'm not joking, I actually do this all the time.

[sir pball]

30. Not so much a plan as a simple reaction - hit the f'in deck.

Knowing where the exits are isn't much use if you take three rounds to the back while running for them. I hear gunfire, I go as flat as I can. Seems to me most of the sociopaths are aiming at upright moving targets, a body on the floor isn't going to attract nearly as much attention…

[Kaleva]

33. I disagree

"Run to Safety
Seek safety. Getting away from the attacker is the top priority.
Leave your belongings behind and get away.
Call 9-1-1 when you are safe and describe the attacker, location and weapons.

Cover and Hide
Cover and hide if you can’t evacuate. Find a place to hide out of view of the attacker and put a solid barrier between yourself and the threat if possible.
Lock and block doors, close blinds and turn off lights.
Keep silent.

Defend, Disrupt, Fight
Fight only as a last resort. When you can’t run or cover, attempt to disrupt the attack or disable the attacker.
Be aggressive and commit to your actions.
Recruit others to ambush the attacker with makeshift weapons such as chairs, fire extinguishers, scissors, books, etc.
Be prepared to cause severe or lethal injury to the attacker."

https://www.ready.gov/public-spaces

I don't know of any reputable source that recommends the first and only thing you do is to lay flat.

[sir pball]

41. I'll take my chances.

Already done it twice on the streets of NYC and DC, worked well enough. Not that any of the bullets were meant for me, or even came close, so it's probably not a good data point, but eh.

OFC I'll look for some kind of concealment, but if there's nothing good within just a few steps I'll risk the lunatic preferring runners. I only recall people being shot on the floor in Aurora, but that's purely my memory.

[Kaleva]

43. Getting out of the shooters LOS is very important

Line of sight.

[sir pball]

46. Indeed

And the ground seems to be as good a place as any, absent some concealment within a few meters. They're just not paying attention to "bodies".

[BeerBarrelPolka]

34. .

The SEAL was correct on some things and wrong on others.

One drill I have my students (including SEALS and other high impact groups) is to get to/out your cell phone and have 911 preprogrammed. Drill stuff like that at all times. For example, set up a number in your phone on speed dial that may simply go to an answering machine. If you're out anywhere (I will use my town of Chicago for example), and you hear a conversation where someone mentions Cubs, get to your phone and dial the "mock 911" number. Get used to using audible and visual triggers and practice, practice, practice.

[ecstatic]

40. What are the things he was wrong about?

besides omitting the 911 part?

[BeerBarrelPolka]

55. Things

The biggest thing he never mentioned is the 4fs (fight, flight, freeze, fawn). No matter how much training you have, you may find yourself losing all composure in a reality situation. This is the biggest thing people have to accept and learn (through proper training) to overcome.

Briefly:

His fighting advice was pretty much all way off the mark. I won't go into great detail, but learning to fight, especially against someone with a weapon takes much, much proper and realistic training. Saying to control the hips/spine is vastly difficult to do. I am a high level wrestler. I train advanced athletes from other sports. Teaching them to control the hips takes a lot of work. A lot of work.

You cannot and should not ever expect anyone to help you, let alone be in an organizational mindset during a panic situation. As a skilled fighter, the last thing I need is someone in a panic getting in my way or actually attacking me (in a sense) by mistaking me or my limbs. They (a good guy) may also strike me in a vulnerable place and take me out of commission. It's easy and casual to say, 'I'll go for the gun and you go for the legs" on a video. Even that would need to be practiced, let alone trying to recruit someone in a life/death situation to do it perhaps immediately.

His way of glossing over improvised weapons, neutralization, control, was a waste of time.

He did not address multiple assailants at all. Big mistake.

He backtracked by stating initially don't run with everyone else and moments later stated you may be with a smaller group of people or alone. That creates what's called crisis conflict. You cannot give definitives that are vague like that. Sometimes the groups' way out is the only or the correct way to escape. It's a situational thing that will vary.

I could probably rewatch the video and pick out more things, but those stuck out in my head.

[Kaleva]

31. Do home fire drills make you afraid to be at home?

Are you afraid to drive when you put your seatbelt on?

[BeerBarrelPolka]

32. +1

Scheduled drilling is the key. Repetition, repetition, repetition.

[Kaleva]

35. Yes

I do fire drills when the grandkids are over and also safe room drills

My wife and I will also do drills on how to react if someone breaks into the home at night

[BeerBarrelPolka]

37. Awesome

I only wish more people thought like you. I cover a lot of these scenarios in some of my seminars, and simply getting folks to practice them is a challenge that many other instructors and I have to deal with.

[Kaleva]

38. Another example of what I do

My home is located on a corner in town and can be approached by car from 3 directions. I prefer approaching from the north as I can check the north and west side, then the south side as I turn left and finally the east side when I turn into the driveway.

I look for anything unusual or out of place.

Much of what I do is done now without too much thinking involved. It's become second nature after much practice.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

39. Second

Second nature is the key phrase. It must become that. I tell everyone I train, you cannot control someone else until you can control yourself. It takes lots of time and proper practice to develop certain skills. It's not instantaneous.

Thanks for sharing your ideas.

[Javaman]

44. I live in texas. absolutely I do. nt

[Sympthsical]

45. I know where all the exits are

Not because of mass shootings. Rather, I made the rather grim mistake of watching the Station fire unedited footage back when it happened.

That stuck.

Where are exits, how crowded is this bar? Too crowded? Ok, I'ma nope out then.

[Paladin]

47. And are those plans made out of fear---or part of your enjoyable recreation?

As usual, there seems to be some of both on this thread...

[haele]

50. Other. I always have a rapid exit plan for emergancies.

Even if it's just a plan to deal with a suddenly sick or cranky kid (or spouse) at a busy location. How to get out quickly and not get separated. My parents taught me that early with me and my brother.
So if I'm by myself, I'm already in that habit.

That this is the same sort of planning that one goes through for an active shooter or crazed/aggressive/drunk brawler type event is not a surprise.

Haele

[SYFROYH]

54. I'm more concerned about locating public bathrooms.

Old man bladder is kicking in.