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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWashington Examiner goes off the deep end when it comes to abortion
There's obviously crazy sh*t in this. (I'll make a comment or two at the end.)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/relationships/with-abortion-women-contribute-to-the-crisis-of-manhood/ar-AA1aWlwv?ocid=hpmsn&pc=U483&cvid=59037094102441838aa18ef7c20b9192&ei=15
With abortion, women contribute to the crisis of manhood
More than half of men who have been affected by abortion seek psychological support afterward. Most dont know what to look for, and few find it when they do, according to a new study from the nonpartisan organization Support After Abortion.
When it comes to this contentious conversation, men are usually excluded. Whether its the decision to abort or space to grieve the loss of a child, secular feminists are clear: Keep your mouth shut.
In circumstances of unplanned pregnancy, men are shamed for believing their opinion matters. Emotional baggage isnt even a consideration. A mans grief is inconvenient, smashing the illusion that this is merely about a womans bodily autonomy.
My body, my choice, read the signs at the Womens March and in front of the Supreme Court each time another abortion-related case comes down. But far more than just the woman is affected when a child is conceived.
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There's more. Of course it is what you would expect--sexist crap.
1) Well, obviously the title gaslights the discussion--implying (that's not the right word... I'm sure there's a better one) that women who make their own choices emasculate men. Apparently men are only men in relation to the women they control. It's a CRISIS (!!!!) I tell you, and the WOMEN ARE TO BLAME!!!!
2) Of course in the ideal situation decisions would be made by both parties involved. But of course conception regularly occurs in situations that are less than ideal. No female should ever be forced to give birth.
3) There is a large contingency within the forced-birth movement that argues if a female unintentionally becomes pregnant she's SOL (**** outta luck) and she has to accept the consequences of her behavior--that she has no control. It would appear that saying the same thing to a male is something we should never consider. His masculinity depends on him never considering that there might be something he doesn't control.
4) Allowed to grieve? Sure. And of course absolutely no one needs anyone else's permission to grieve. And sure, if a male feels the need to seek professional assistance with grief, I would applaud his recognition of that need. I'm reminded however that one of the "steps of grief" is acceptance.
At some point, every human being on the planet comes to the realization that they don't control EVERYTHING. And of course, it's high time for these "manly men" to recognize that controlling women doesn't make them more masculine.
underpants
(196,495 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,647 posts)Whose manhood is determined by how many progeny they help produce.
Fucking sad.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Every male in the recent evolutionary chain that preceded us.
The human males who think this way do so because of our biological heritage. I.E. they're engaging in Chimp-like thinking, basically.
While I 100% vehemently agree that in the end, child-bearing should be a woman's choice, I believe we should at least consider we may be witnessing an unforeseen consequence of less marriages, less children, and a glut of single men who feel they'll never get to procreate. It's quite possibly an underlying reason for why men are turning fascist (or Jihadi) in so many places across the world. The Allen shooter's writings touch on this topic in fact.
If you look at history, a glut of single males lacking adequate resources to procreate leads to wars of conquest. Basically, that's how rulers would shed the glut of unhappy males in their society (whose presence locally may lead to rebellion against their rule), they sent 'em off to war to try to conquer and gather more resources.
This would both trim down the excess of males, and if successful, more resources meant more children could be supported. This may be (a reason) why so many of the males in our society are arming up, talking about civil war, etc.
This is NOT TO BLAME WOMEN. They should have MORE power than they do!
I just think there's a lot of ancient biology in play with this subject. This happens in Chimp society too. When there's too many males that aren't able to procreate, they instinctively think 'well, we need to band together and take over some territory and resources, so then we can have children!'
We would be wise to ponder this reality in an at least semi-dispassionate way and try to come up w/solutions.
Freddie
(10,104 posts)But not the deciding one. Theyre not the ones who suffer from childbearing. And we owe NO ONE our childbearing labor or the use of our bodies.
Thats a hard concept for them to understand.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Irish_Dem
(81,266 posts)Deep State Witch
(12,716 posts)Who dupe men into impregnating them just so they can have an abortion.
halfulglas
(1,654 posts)But considering it's the Examiner it's not. So the fact that it's not his body doesn't mean anything to them. The Examiner does not even take into consideration that sometimes the woman grieves too because under different circumstances the pregnancy might be welcome. Why should it be so hard to understand that a woman might want to be in control of her body? This quasi political-religious rag tries to make an argument again that women are to blame for men not being able to control women and that really hurts mens' feefees.
marble falls
(71,926 posts)... where the real, 24K bullshit is mined.
Diamond_Dog
(40,575 posts)What a bunch of b.s.!! Id love to see a man go through 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth.
Freddie
(10,104 posts)Then they can have an opinion.
Walleye
(44,805 posts)uponit7771
(93,532 posts)apcalc
(4,528 posts)1) Keep your dick zipped up in your pants . 2) Ask BEFORE sex if shell keep a baby 3) ask yourself if you can mentally accept that the female might have unexpected health complications 4) will you support her and a baby if/when she gives birth 5) keep your dick zipped up in your pants
Dont come crying to me about YOUR ( heh) predicament.
milestogo
(23,082 posts)heckles65
(631 posts)"But I don't wear a condom. Don't worry, I'll be careful."
haele
(15,399 posts)Abortions where a pregnancy would have been wanted by the partners, but wasn't viable or was too risky to the family.
Shame on the Washington Examiner for peddling this crap. "Feminists" or "My Body, my Choice" supporters don't keep an involved male partner from feeling grief at an abortion. They only keep male "patriarchal" slavers from deciding whether or not any particular woman is valuable enough to keep alive and potentially fertile or should become damaged or die of a miscarriage/pregnancy complication as if she's just a fungible sex-toy/housekeeper for him.
Haele
FalloutShelter
(14,465 posts)child support begins at conception.
Girard442
(6,887 posts)DNA-test the child then bill the IDed biodad for some portion of the expenses, if he's not paying already.
milestogo
(23,082 posts)Girard442
(6,887 posts)We decided together, but she had the deciding vote.
No grief or guilt. Just relief and gratitude.
Men: it's not all about you.
durablend
(9,268 posts)Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)GreenWave
(12,641 posts)They don't want the responsibility nor will submit to vasectomy.
scarletlib
(3,568 posts)keep_left
(3,210 posts)...among other places. You can find more on her at the Amazon link. Ericka Anderson has worked for the Heritage Foundation (which is currently in the process of going overtly fash), National Review, and "in communications for the US Congress", whatever that is. (I would love to know the member of Congress for whom she worked. It certainly wasn't AOC).
https://www.amazon.com/Reason-Return-Women-Church-Needs/dp/1641585668
ShazzieB
(22,590 posts)It's important when evaluating the quality of "information" like this to know the source from which it comes. Thanks for this info!
keep_left
(3,210 posts)11 Bravo
(24,310 posts)It owes its genesis to the fact that the publishers were afraid that the far-right wingnut rag the Washington "Moonie" Times was't far enough off the deep end.
Midnight Writer
(25,410 posts)I'd like to see a source for that one.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Jean Genie
(544 posts)I agree with "Underpants" - MY GOD!!!
What else is there to say?!
dchill
(42,660 posts)Wizardly victimhood.
ShazzieB
(22,590 posts)Where did these numbers come from?
Oh, wait, I see they come "a study from the nonpartisan organization Support After Abortion." I googled and found their site. There are all sorts of numbers there (including, I assume these, although I didn't exactly comb through the site looking for them), and the only mention of a source was "our research shows."
On the "about" page their purpose becomes clear. This page is full of "statements" about the supposed "impact" of abortion on those "affected" by it, together with lots of unsourced "statistics" about how many people seek "help" to deal with this "impact."
It's clear to me that the agenda of this "organization" is to promote the idea that abortion is always a horrendous experience for everyone involved, so much so that specialized help is needed. This idea of abortion always leaving people (especially women) emotional wrecks is a very popular trope in the 4forced birth community. The "crisis pregnancy centers" are known for including this among the "risks" of abortion, telling women that if they have an abortion, they will almost suffer from an (imaginary) condition called post abortion syndrome.
I wonder if they have been unable to convince enough women to stay pregnant using this argument and are now trying to do it by naming womenⁿ feel guilty about how their partner will supposedly be affected? It would not surprise me in the least.
Note: I am sure there are women who have conflicted feelings about having an abortion, and women who have strong misgivings about it can benefit from getting some counseling beforehand to sort out their feelings and consider different alternatives if they are genuinely uncomfortable going through with an abortion. What they don't need is to be hit with a pack of lies about nonexistent "dangers." Those who have conflicted feelings after having an abortion can see the therapist of their choice for help. The idea that highly specialized help is always needed is simply false.
As for the men, if a man doesn't get a say in an abortion decision, it's because it wasn't necessary or in some cases, because it was possibly even dangerous to involve them. In the latter case, an abusive male partner often sees a pregnancy as an opportunity to increase the amount of power he has in the relationship and exert even more control over the woman and thwart any attempt on her part to get out. Women in abusive relationships NEED to be able to make these decisions on their own, without the partners knowledge if need be.
Aside from that, all women need to be able to make these decisions without anyone else's "permission," because it's the woman's body, health, and even life that are on the line. Any other way of handling things would lead to infantilizing women and denying their bodily autonomy.
Men who are uncomfortable with this should see it as motivation to be extremely responsible about using birth control. Men need to realize that having sex with a woman does not come with the right to control her reproductive decisions, even if he's in a committed relationship with her, and especially if a pregnancy results from a casual fling or even a *gasp* one night stand.
There's more I could say, but this is already too long, and I need to wrap it up. I'll just close by saying to hell with anyone peddling scare stories about imaginary risks to try to convince women they should never have an abortion. Pregnant people are capable of making their own decisions and should be allowed to do without outside pressure from anti-choicers. Trust women!
IbogaProject
(5,913 posts)What a crybaby. Sorry weak dude, if the women you happened to knock up decides after she sobers up or just gets a better handle on your personality after you begin discussions about family life and that reflection gets her to say 'hell no' well then you and your genes just got selected against. And if she'd be happy to make a baby with you but society puts too many risks and costs onto that, well then it is time to reevaluate that every one is an island fantasy that may 'conservatives' have. Our county is horrible at keeping pregnant mothers alive and healthy. The lack of universal health care is a serious risk to both mom and any kids. Every other developed country does more for parents. What part of the choice should be the person who is at risk making the decision is hard for these conservatives to understand? Seriously dude don't have an abortion and don't mate with anyone who is in favor, I'm fine with you limiting yourself to a much smaller dating pool. As a matter of fact, why not just get a vasectomy so you can have some skin in the baby making game if you decide to reverse it later? I'd bet a vasectomy is way less serious than child birth? The bible clearly values fetuses and children as lower than adults and the bible has howtos with nothing saying it shouldn't be a woman's choice.