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MissMillie

(39,652 posts)
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:03 PM May 2023

Washington Examiner goes off the deep end when it comes to abortion

There's obviously crazy sh*t in this. (I'll make a comment or two at the end.)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/relationships/with-abortion-women-contribute-to-the-crisis-of-manhood/ar-AA1aWlwv?ocid=hpmsn&pc=U483&cvid=59037094102441838aa18ef7c20b9192&ei=15

With abortion, women contribute to the crisis of manhood

One in every 5 men may be silently suffering in the aftermath of a partner’s abortion, and the liberal feminist movement makes it worse.

More than half of men who have been affected by abortion seek psychological support afterward. Most don’t know what to look for, and few find it when they do, according to a new study from the nonpartisan organization Support After Abortion.

When it comes to this contentious conversation, men are usually excluded. Whether it’s the decision to abort or space to grieve the loss of a child, secular feminists are clear: Keep your mouth shut.

In circumstances of unplanned pregnancy, men are shamed for believing their opinion matters. Emotional baggage isn’t even a consideration. A man’s grief is inconvenient, smashing the illusion that this is merely about a woman’s “bodily autonomy.”

“My body, my choice,” read the signs at the Women’s March and in front of the Supreme Court each time another abortion-related case comes down. But far more than just the woman is affected when a child is conceived.


*************************
There's more. Of course it is what you would expect--sexist crap.

1) Well, obviously the title gaslights the discussion--implying (that's not the right word... I'm sure there's a better one) that women who make their own choices emasculate men. Apparently men are only men in relation to the women they control. It's a CRISIS (!!!!) I tell you, and the WOMEN ARE TO BLAME!!!!

2) Of course in the ideal situation decisions would be made by both parties involved. But of course conception regularly occurs in situations that are less than ideal. No female should ever be forced to give birth.

3) There is a large contingency within the forced-birth movement that argues if a female unintentionally becomes pregnant she's SOL (**** outta luck) and she has to accept the consequences of her behavior--that she has no control. It would appear that saying the same thing to a male is something we should never consider. His masculinity depends on him never considering that there might be something he doesn't control.

4) Allowed to grieve? Sure. And of course absolutely no one needs anyone else's permission to grieve. And sure, if a male feels the need to seek professional assistance with grief, I would applaud his recognition of that need. I'm reminded however that one of the "steps of grief" is acceptance.

At some point, every human being on the planet comes to the realization that they don't control EVERYTHING. And of course, it's high time for these "manly men" to recognize that controlling women doesn't make them more masculine.

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Washington Examiner goes off the deep end when it comes to abortion (Original Post) MissMillie May 2023 OP
My God! Think about how this effects THE MEN!!! underpants May 2023 #1
Apparently Conservative men are fragile snowflakes..... TheRealNorth May 2023 #3
You know who else thinks this way? Hugh_Lebowski May 2023 #24
They're welcome to have an opinion Freddie May 2023 #2
They have been in the deep end for years. grantcart May 2023 #4
The GOP ALWAYS paints men as the victims. Irish_Dem May 2023 #5
It's All The Fault of those Sluts Deep State Witch May 2023 #6
I would like to say "unbelievable," for newspaper that wants to be taken seriously. halfulglas May 2023 #7
Of course it went off the deep end, it's the Washington Examiner, after all: the deep end is ... marble falls May 2023 #8
Oh yes, think of the "poor men" Diamond_Dog May 2023 #9
And at the end, push a watermelon 🍉 out their a** Freddie May 2023 #22
One out of five men are grieving, and the other four are what, celebrating? Walleye May 2023 #10
K&R, someone told them to be angry about an issue and they are uponit7771 May 2023 #11
Simple solution.... MEN do THIS apcalc May 2023 #12
6. Wear a fucking condom. milestogo May 2023 #17
Something I swear a lot of my family law clients say-- heckles65 May 2023 #31
1 out of 5? Sounds as if they're using numbers for miscarriages and health of mother abortions. haele May 2023 #13
I will accept their grieving when FalloutShelter May 2023 #14
You know, there's no reason why it couldn't. Girard442 May 2023 #20
Poor men. milestogo May 2023 #15
My wife had an abortion that almost certainly saved her life. Girard442 May 2023 #16
Think about the poor grieving rapist durablend May 2023 #18
General Quarters ! General Quarters ! Man overboard. Tetrachloride May 2023 #19
Of the abortions occurring by human choice the males are usually the "pushers" for it. GreenWave May 2023 #21
I call bullshit. scarletlib May 2023 #23
Check out the writer's "credentials". She's promoting a book that's on Amazon... keep_left May 2023 #25
Thanks for this! ShazzieB May 2023 #33
You're welcome! keep_left May 2023 #34
The Examiner is a fish wrap. 11 Bravo May 2023 #26
"More than half of men affected by abortion seek psychological support"? Midnight Writer May 2023 #27
Toxic masculinity is deflated by wokeness. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2023 #28
What the heck?! Jean Genie May 2023 #29
Man, oh man! dchill May 2023 #30
What I'd like know is... ShazzieB May 2023 #32
Regressives are all Social Darwinism 'survival of the fittest' until they are selected against. IbogaProject May 2023 #35

TheRealNorth

(9,647 posts)
3. Apparently Conservative men are fragile snowflakes.....
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:10 PM
May 2023

Whose manhood is determined by how many progeny they help produce.

Fucking sad.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
24. You know who else thinks this way?
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:52 PM
May 2023

Every male in the recent evolutionary chain that preceded us.

The human males who think this way do so because of our biological heritage. I.E. they're engaging in Chimp-like thinking, basically.

While I 100% vehemently agree that in the end, child-bearing should be a woman's choice, I believe we should at least consider we may be witnessing an unforeseen consequence of less marriages, less children, and a glut of single men who feel they'll never get to procreate. It's quite possibly an underlying reason for why men are turning fascist (or Jihadi) in so many places across the world. The Allen shooter's writings touch on this topic in fact.

If you look at history, a glut of single males lacking adequate resources to procreate leads to wars of conquest. Basically, that's how rulers would shed the glut of unhappy males in their society (whose presence locally may lead to rebellion against their rule), they sent 'em off to war to try to conquer and gather more resources.

This would both trim down the excess of males, and if successful, more resources meant more children could be supported. This may be (a reason) why so many of the males in our society are arming up, talking about civil war, etc.

This is NOT TO BLAME WOMEN. They should have MORE power than they do!

I just think there's a lot of ancient biology in play with this subject. This happens in Chimp society too. When there's too many males that aren't able to procreate, they instinctively think 'well, we need to band together and take over some territory and resources, so then we can have children!'

We would be wise to ponder this reality in an at least semi-dispassionate way and try to come up w/solutions.

Freddie

(10,104 posts)
2. They're welcome to have an opinion
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:10 PM
May 2023

But not the deciding one. They’re not the ones who suffer from childbearing. And we owe NO ONE our childbearing labor or the use of our bodies.
That’s a hard concept for them to understand.

Deep State Witch

(12,716 posts)
6. It's All The Fault of those Sluts
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:17 PM
May 2023

Who dupe men into impregnating them just so they can have an abortion.

halfulglas

(1,654 posts)
7. I would like to say "unbelievable," for newspaper that wants to be taken seriously.
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:17 PM
May 2023

But considering it's the Examiner it's not. So the fact that it's not his body doesn't mean anything to them. The Examiner does not even take into consideration that sometimes the woman grieves too because under different circumstances the pregnancy might be welcome. Why should it be so hard to understand that a woman might want to be in control of her body? This quasi political-religious rag tries to make an argument again that women are to blame for men not being able to control women and that really hurts mens' feefees.

marble falls

(71,926 posts)
8. Of course it went off the deep end, it's the Washington Examiner, after all: the deep end is ...
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:20 PM
May 2023

... where the real, 24K bullshit is mined.

Diamond_Dog

(40,575 posts)
9. Oh yes, think of the "poor men"
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:21 PM
May 2023

What a bunch of b.s.!! I’d love to see a man go through 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth.

apcalc

(4,528 posts)
12. Simple solution.... MEN do THIS
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:23 PM
May 2023

1) Keep your dick zipped up in your pants . 2) Ask BEFORE sex if she’ll keep a baby 3) ask yourself if you can mentally accept that the female might have unexpected health complications 4) will you support her and a baby if/when she gives birth 5) keep your dick zipped up in your pants

Don’t come crying to me about YOUR ( heh) predicament.

heckles65

(631 posts)
31. Something I swear a lot of my family law clients say--
Tue May 9, 2023, 02:38 PM
May 2023

"But I don't wear a condom. Don't worry, I'll be careful."

haele

(15,399 posts)
13. 1 out of 5? Sounds as if they're using numbers for miscarriages and health of mother abortions.
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:26 PM
May 2023

Abortions where a pregnancy would have been wanted by the partners, but wasn't viable or was too risky to the family.
Shame on the Washington Examiner for peddling this crap. "Feminists" or "My Body, my Choice" supporters don't keep an involved male partner from feeling grief at an abortion. They only keep male "patriarchal" slavers from deciding whether or not any particular woman is valuable enough to keep alive and potentially fertile or should become damaged or die of a miscarriage/pregnancy complication as if she's just a fungible sex-toy/housekeeper for him.

Haele

Girard442

(6,887 posts)
20. You know, there's no reason why it couldn't.
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:34 PM
May 2023

DNA-test the child then bill the IDed biodad for some portion of the expenses, if he's not paying already.

Girard442

(6,887 posts)
16. My wife had an abortion that almost certainly saved her life.
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:28 PM
May 2023

We decided together, but she had the deciding vote.

No grief or guilt. Just relief and gratitude.

Men: it's not all about you.

GreenWave

(12,641 posts)
21. Of the abortions occurring by human choice the males are usually the "pushers" for it.
Tue May 9, 2023, 12:37 PM
May 2023

They don't want the responsibility nor will submit to vasectomy.

keep_left

(3,210 posts)
25. Check out the writer's "credentials". She's promoting a book that's on Amazon...
Tue May 9, 2023, 01:11 PM
May 2023

...among other places. You can find more on her at the Amazon link. Ericka Anderson has worked for the Heritage Foundation (which is currently in the process of going overtly fash), National Review, and "in communications for the US Congress", whatever that is. (I would love to know the member of Congress for whom she worked. It certainly wasn't AOC).

https://www.amazon.com/Reason-Return-Women-Church-Needs/dp/1641585668

ShazzieB

(22,590 posts)
33. Thanks for this!
Tue May 9, 2023, 04:38 PM
May 2023

It's important when evaluating the quality of "information" like this to know the source from which it comes. Thanks for this info!

11 Bravo

(24,310 posts)
26. The Examiner is a fish wrap.
Tue May 9, 2023, 02:20 PM
May 2023

It owes its genesis to the fact that the publishers were afraid that the far-right wingnut rag the Washington "Moonie" Times was't far enough off the deep end.

Midnight Writer

(25,410 posts)
27. "More than half of men affected by abortion seek psychological support"?
Tue May 9, 2023, 02:27 PM
May 2023

I'd like to see a source for that one.

ShazzieB

(22,590 posts)
32. What I'd like know is...
Tue May 9, 2023, 04:34 PM
May 2023

Where did these numbers come from?

One in every 5 men may be silently suffering in the aftermath of a partner’s abortion

More than half of men who have been affected by abortion seek psychological support


Oh, wait, I see they come "a study from the nonpartisan organization Support After Abortion." I googled and found their site. There are all sorts of numbers there (including, I assume these, although I didn't exactly comb through the site looking for them), and the only mention of a source was "our research shows."

On the "about" page their purpose becomes clear. This page is full of "statements" about the supposed "impact" of abortion on those "affected" by it, together with lots of unsourced "statistics" about how many people seek "help" to deal with this "impact."

It's clear to me that the agenda of this "organization" is to promote the idea that abortion is always a horrendous experience for everyone involved, so much so that specialized help is needed. This idea of abortion always leaving people (especially women) emotional wrecks is a very popular trope in the 4forced birth community. The "crisis pregnancy centers" are known for including this among the "risks" of abortion, telling women that if they have an abortion, they will almost suffer from an (imaginary) condition called post abortion syndrome.

I wonder if they have been unable to convince enough women to stay pregnant using this argument and are now trying to do it by naming womenⁿ feel guilty about how their partner will supposedly be affected? It would not surprise me in the least.

Note: I am sure there are women who have conflicted feelings about having an abortion, and women who have strong misgivings about it can benefit from getting some counseling beforehand to sort out their feelings and consider different alternatives if they are genuinely uncomfortable going through with an abortion. What they don't need is to be hit with a pack of lies about nonexistent "dangers." Those who have conflicted feelings after having an abortion can see the therapist of their choice for help. The idea that highly specialized help is always needed is simply false.

As for the men, if a man doesn't get a say in an abortion decision, it's because it wasn't necessary or in some cases, because it was possibly even dangerous to involve them. In the latter case, an abusive male partner often sees a pregnancy as an opportunity to increase the amount of power he has in the relationship and exert even more control over the woman and thwart any attempt on her part to get out. Women in abusive relationships NEED to be able to make these decisions on their own, without the partner’s knowledge if need be.

Aside from that, all women need to be able to make these decisions without anyone else's "permission," because it's the woman's body, health, and even life that are on the line. Any other way of handling things would lead to infantilizing women and denying their bodily autonomy.

Men who are uncomfortable with this should see it as motivation to be extremely responsible about using birth control. Men need to realize that having sex with a woman does not come with the right to control her reproductive decisions, even if he's in a committed relationship with her, and especially if a pregnancy results from a casual fling or even a *gasp* one night stand.

There's more I could say, but this is already too long, and I need to wrap it up. I'll just close by saying to hell with anyone peddling scare stories about imaginary risks to try to convince women they should never have an abortion. Pregnant people are capable of making their own decisions and should be allowed to do without outside pressure from anti-choicers. Trust women!

IbogaProject

(5,913 posts)
35. Regressives are all Social Darwinism 'survival of the fittest' until they are selected against.
Wed May 10, 2023, 04:08 PM
May 2023

What a crybaby. Sorry weak dude, if the women you happened to knock up decides after she sobers up or just gets a better handle on your personality after you begin discussions about family life and that reflection gets her to say 'hell no' well then you and your genes just got selected against. And if she'd be happy to make a baby with you but society puts too many risks and costs onto that, well then it is time to reevaluate that every one is an island fantasy that may 'conservatives' have. Our county is horrible at keeping pregnant mothers alive and healthy. The lack of universal health care is a serious risk to both mom and any kids. Every other developed country does more for parents. What part of the choice should be the person who is at risk making the decision is hard for these conservatives to understand? Seriously dude don't have an abortion and don't mate with anyone who is in favor, I'm fine with you limiting yourself to a much smaller dating pool. As a matter of fact, why not just get a vasectomy so you can have some skin in the baby making game if you decide to reverse it later? I'd bet a vasectomy is way less serious than child birth? The bible clearly values fetuses and children as lower than adults and the bible has howtos with nothing saying it shouldn't be a woman's choice.

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