Circumcision is genital mutilation even if most don't want to believe it.

[Maraya1969]

Especially since the baby cannot give consent. So Desantis essentially banned circumcision and I don't see how making an"exception" for it should mean anything because it is cutting off part ot the penis

Maybe everyone should write to him, or all him to ask.

Oh, and if it is excused because it is part of the Jewish religion then I hope others will create a religion that supports surgery for trans and other people.

Kind of like "The church of the flying spaghetti monster"

EDIT - To add a different title since so many people pointed out that circumcision is not in the bill. Maybe it is not but it is still genital mutilation even if most people think it is good or do it for religious purposes.

[Meadowoak]

1. sounds like a page out of mein kampf.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

2. So he has basically BANNED Judaism then?

For when a male child is born after 8 days, the ceremony of circumcision is performed by the Rabbi.

Like that will go over well.

[Irish_Dem]

4. DeSantis is going to drag Rabbis away and throw them in jail for performing a religious ceremony?

Good God this man is insane.

[WarGamer]

18. the OP is false, BTW

And 55% of all American babies are circumcised, down from 80% in the 80's...

It's hardly only a "Jewish thing"

[CTyankee]

33. I think a moyel (sp.?) does the circumcision.

[jmowreader]

38. Mohels can be rabbis

There's a school that teaches the procedure, and rabbis are allowed to go to it.

[Irish_Dem]

39. Yes but under the direction of a rabbi?

The rabbi is the one conducting the service.

[PCIntern]

82. No.

Where I come from it’s done by the mohel alone. It is an element of the Covenant of Abraham and takes precedent over all.

[MayReasonRule]

86. The Mohel Directly Places His Mouth On And Sucks The Blood From The Baby's Penis

The ritual, known as the metzitzah b’peh, is a type of circumcision in which the person performing the procedure, or mohel, directly places his mouth on and sucks the blood from the baby’s newly circumcised penis.

The controversial ritual came under intense scrutiny... after health officials reported 11 babies had contracted herpes infections between 2000 and 2011.

The health department reported that an estimated 20,493 infants in New York City were exposed to direct oral suction in that period.

“There is no safe way to perform oral suction on any open wound in a newborn,” said the health commissioner, Dr. Thomas Farley.

Baby boys who were reportedly circumcised “with confirmed or probable orogenital suction” between April 2006 and December 2011 had an estimated risk of contracting neonatal herpes (HSV-1) infection of 24.4 per 100,000 cases, 3.4 times greater than other infants, the health department said.

I am wholly against metzitzah b’peh.
I am wholly against child genital mutilation.

May reason rule where delusion dwells.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

3. There are a ton of Jewish voters in Florida

[Celerity]

9. yep, and the only ones who are MAGAts are the Orthodox, a small minority

https://jstreet.org/j-streets-surveys-of-likely-jewish-voters-in-fl-pa/

[TwilightZone]

5. The bill doesn't include circumcision.

There are a few Twitter claims to the contrary, but they appear to be false. I think it's mostly people being sarcastic about the "genital mutilation" part of his speech.

[Maraya1969]

6. I don't know if that is legal. How can you designate that it is OK for one group and not another?

Especially if it involves religion - like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

8. How is it any different though?

What about Beauty Pageant children who want a boob job or a Nose Job? Will it exempt removing teeth for braces?

How about ear piercing? That's body modification too...

[Maraya1969]

21. Good points to bring up when the jerk speaks again.

[MayReasonRule]

7. I'm In Favor Of Banning Child Circumcision

Unfortunately that’s not what was done.

If only…

[Elessar Zappa]

10. No way.

[marble falls]

11. Absolutely, no way. It's a medical procedure with proven medical benefits.

[obamanut2012]

13. not really

[MayReasonRule]

20. Zero Medical Benefits

Have a great life.

[Orrex]

24. Out of curiosity, where did you get your medical degree?

Must be somewhere prestigious if we’re meant to accept your offhand assertion as incontestable fact.

[Polybius]

50. Maybe cleanliness

The extra skin makes it smell if you sweat.

[MayReasonRule]

71. Oh Yes. Routine Infant Circumcision Is Genital Mutilation.

Have a great life.

[Demsrule86]

16. Should be up to the parents...we are living under fascist rule now in some states.

My Dad was circumcised in his 40's...It was an emergency.

[MayReasonRule]

19. Infant Circumcision Is Genital Mutilation, Assault, and Child Abuse - A Crime Against Humanity

Period.

Here's to your father's rapid recovery.

[Orrex]

25. Lol

[Maraya1969]

29. Why do laugh at that person It is their believe and should be treated with respect

[Silent3]

34. This specific issue aside (I have mixed feeling about it myself), no, there doesn't have to be...

...any automatic respect for what people believe.

The right to believe as you choose, yes.

Anyone's particular beliefs themselves, no. Some beliefs are truly stupid, or mean-spirited, or based on bad information, or sometimes a wonderfully toxic combination of all of the above. Such beliefs deserve no respect whatsoever.

[Underdog2]

45. Even better than respecting someone's belief

Would be to respect a person's right to choose this procedure for themselves unless medically necessary. I don't know what sane adult would actually go and pay to have a piece of their genitals cut off, but they should at least have the choice - instead of being subjected to it as a helpless infant.

[RussBLib]

46. Welcome to DU

This is a touchy subject.

Parents consented to circumcision because they believed it to be a benefit to the health and safety of the child. Circumcision does reduce the risk of UTI's and other nasties, which could go undiagnosed and cause some serious side effects. If one waited until they were an adult to circumcize, they could be seriously impaired.

[Underdog2]

49. It's a solution in search of a problem.

The risk you're speaking of is very low, and there are risks introduced by the circumcision itself. As for STDs, they can be avoided in other ways by a sexually active person.

Most of the stuff I've read on it gives about equal credence to both options. It says there is "no right or wrong answer." But to be honest, I think the medical community wants to avoid wading into a culture war. And nobody wants to hear that they might have reduced sexual pleasure because of a decision someone made for them.

Thanks for the welcome. I like your avatar. 👍

[RussBLib]

51. Well, tell ya what

Last edited Fri May 19, 2023, 01:31 AM - Edit history (2)

If I could speak informally...

My circumcised wang is still plenty sensitive, even after all these years, thank you very much. If uncircumcized wangs are more sensitive than circumsized wangs, I don't know if I could handle it! I might cum twice as fast as I do now, and where's the fun in that?

Lots of studies have been done about that, naturally.

Here's one from Pubmed and I'll just print the conclusion.

Conclusion: The highest-quality studies suggest that medical male circumcision has no adverse effect on sexual function, sensitivity, sexual sensation, or satisfaction.

I'll just go with that one. Thanks, Mom and Dad.

(Couple of edits to correct dumb mistakes)

[gopiscrap]

98. welcome to DU

[Orrex]

35. I accept that they hold the belief, but I see it as hyperbolic grandstanding

This is consistent with other posts elsewhere in the thread, creating an overall impression that the poster is unserious or is at least given to overstatement for purposes of dubious rhetorical gain.

[11 Bravo]

88. It is Trump's belief that he can magically de-classify documents using the power of his mind.

I feel zero compulsion to treat him or his belief with even the slightest modicum of respect.

[Demsrule86]

54. I don't agree. My own Dad needed a emergency circumcision in his 40's...it has to do with hygiene

and infection can set in even if you are careful. But I don't think it is any of your business.

[MayReasonRule]

57. It's Not The Parent's Genitalia Getting Mutiliated

A child’s genitalia is not the parent’s play thing.

All my best to you and your dad.

Have a great life y’all!

May reason rule.

[Orrex]

61. You're arguing from pure emotionalism

You’re accusing parents of a crime against humanity because they follow the advice of at least one doctor on the scene, whose advice is based on years of experience consistent with AMA guidelines.

Perhaps parents should await the infant’s consent before cruelly severing their umbilical cord or subjecting them to vaccination. After all, the infant’s bloodstream isn’t the parents’ plaything.

[Demsrule86]

85. There are medical benefits for circumcision. But it must be left up to the parents IMHO.

[Takket]

68. you are shockingly ignorant. I cannot believe I'm reading this on DU.

https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

[Goodheart]

92. Agree. It's genital mutilation, and should be banned.

Let adults decide if they want to be circumcised or not. I promise you... the practice would almost disappear because unmutilated men know it's absurd.

[Underdog2]

79. 🙄

I can't wait for you to tell me why you're against an individual deciding this for themselves.

[RussBLib]

12. what next? female genital mutilation mandated by Florida?

women should not experience pleasure!! that is the domain of men!!

[madinmaryland]

15. Don't give the crazies any ideas!

[niyad]

65. Yeah, they would no doubt make it mandatory.

[niyad]

64. Thank you. I was wondering when that would be discussed.

[maxsolomon]

75. Does the FL Anti-Trans bill ban FGM?

FGM is a real thing - it does exactly what you're saying.

If I'm reading this correctly, FL banned FGM explicitly in 2022: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0794/Sections/0794.08.html

[TheProle]

14. Link?

[Maraya1969]

22. He banned genital mutilation. And that includes circumcison and, as someone pointed out pierced

ears and whatever they do to babies in beauty pagants

[TheProle]

27. Link?

I'm not interested in what "someone pointed out."

I'll ask another way: Can you provide a reputable source that confirms that circumcision, itself, is now illegal in Florida?

Otherwise, your OP is misleading at best.

[Maraya1969]

28. No, but don't you think circumcise is genital mutilation? I think I posted a link to the actual

procedure here. I was shocked when I watched it. And you can't tell me isn't mutilation. I realize a lot of parents chose it but my opinion is it is mutilation. I mean they cut all around the penis and take a part of it off

[TheProle]

30. Not debating the ethics of the procedure

I am asking if you have any links to any reputable sources that specifically state that, under this law, circumcision is now outlawed.

It's not a big ask, and you know damn well that it would make the headlines.

And if it is, I am not seeing it, other than some similar kneejerk posts on Reddit.

[Maraya1969]

31. NO I posted the OP as a stance on this bill. If trans surgery is considered "genital mutilation"

Then I believe that circumcise should be considered "genital mutilation" And all you have to do is go to Youtube and watch one - I posted one somewhere.

[TheProle]

32. NO you made a declarative statement: "So DeSantis just banned circumcision..."

I see no factual basis for this. If you cannot provide one, you have posted a misleading thread title.

What you "believe" and what is enshrined as law are not one and the same.

[Demsrule86]

55. I looked for a link stating that his had become law...and there isn't one...posting your opinion is

fine but you said it was now a law which is not a matter of opinion... I see no evidence of that so maybe we do need a link.

[WarGamer]

17. Is the OP accurate?? Or...

It's not nice to mis/disinform other DU'ers

[Maraya1969]

23. I answered that in #22 by mistake.

But here is your link

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-ron-desantis-anti-trans-bills-ban-gender-affirming-care-minors-drag-shows/

[Earth-shine]

52. There is no mention of circumcision in this article.

I am circumcised. I turned out okay.

[inthewind21]

97. It's completely

bogus information. And the OP knew it when they posted it.

[lark2]

26. Southern Fundamentalist all circumcise their male babies.

They will be sooo pissed.

[onenote]

74. So you think all these groups that engage in circumcision didn't realize what the bill does?

Or maybe, as has been shown, the claim in the OP that the bill bans circumcision is patently untrue.

The OP apparently has some rationale for posting and persisting in this lie, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it is.

[msongs]

36. so the group is ok with cutting off babies' ears...if it's religiously approved? how about feet? nt

[malaise]

37. WTF

Is this man mad?

[onenote]

47. Yes. But the OP is false

Sadly not the first or last time bogus claims will be presented on DU.

[Hortensis]

87. The more extreme or intentially biased the wording, the more likely to be bogus.

One glance,... then wondering what follows.

If extreme positions could be adequately supported with truth, without resorting to bogus claims, they wouldn't be extreme. It's defining.

I'd never disagree, though, that circumcision didn't inflict serious damage (mutilation) on the foreskin. My husband absolutely insisted our newborn's be "mutilated," and I've been glad since that he did. I'm pretty sure that at that age (turned 19) on my own I would have fought to protect my baby's tiny winky.

[jmowreader]

40. I'm concerned about that "no teaching gender identity" thing

That bill is worded so loosely that a teacher's aide telling a kid he has to go to the "boys room" or the "girls room" could be prosecuted for teaching "gender identity." The only solution I see is to build a row of one-toilet restrooms and have an employee stand next to them to make sure only one child at a time uses them.

[Ms. Toad]

41. The law is specific to "sex reassignment."

It doesn't prohibit circumcision either specifically, or by inclusion in a larger category of genital mutilation (which also not prohibited).

99 Section 4. Subsections (8) and (9) are added to section
100 456.001, Florida Statutes, to read:
101 456.001 Definitions.—As used in this chapter, the term:
102 (8) “Sex” means the classification of a person as either
103 male or female based on the organization of the human body of
104 such person for a specific reproductive role, as indicated by
105 the person’s sex chromosomes, naturally occurring sex hormones,
106 and internal and external genitalia present at birth.
107 (9)(a) “Sex-reassignment prescriptions or procedures”
108 means:
. . .
118 3. Any medical procedure, including a surgical procedure,
119 to affirm a person’s perception of his or her sex if that
120 perception is inconsistent with the person’s sex as defined in
121 subsection (8).

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/BillText/er/HTML

[radius777]

42. Circumcision should be banned

as it has no scientific or medical benefit, and is a non-consensual body alteration that can have life-long consequences.

[TomSlick]

44. While there is some debate, the CDC concluded there are some health benefits to circumcision.

[link:https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/fact-sheets/hiv/male-circumcision-HIV-prevention-factsheet.html#:~:text=Circumcised%20men%20compared%20with%20uncircumcised,%25%20to%2047%25%20percent).

Whether or not to circumcise an infant is a decision best left to parents. It should neither be banned nor required.

[Demsrule86]

56. +10000

[hardluck]

43. 42 replies and only one actually read the statute to determine that it does NOT ban circumcision

The OP is patently false. People should read the underlying law before accepting such a claim at face value.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/BillText/er/HTML

[onenote]

48. Let me get this straight...

According to the OP, a law just signed by DeSantis "banned circumcision." This is in reference to a piece of legislation that was introduced more than two months ago, debated in both the Florida House and Senate before being passed.

Given that Florida has a Jewish population of more than 670,000, and that there is absolutely no indication that Jewish organizations in Florida argued at any point during the two and a half months the bill was pending that it would ban circumcision, the OP apparently believes and/ or would have us believe that one of the following things is true:

1. The Jewish population of Florida didn't notice this legislation "banned circumcision".
2. The Jewish population of Florida didn't comprehend that the legislation "banned circumcision."
3. The Jewish population of Florida didn't care that the legislation "banned circumcision."

Or maybe there's a fourth explanation: the legislation doesn't ban circumcision and the OP is a piece of garbage that should be deleted.

[Orrex]

73. I vote for the 4th option

And of course the OP’s argument depends entirely on the false equivalence for FGM and male circumcision.

Anyone who equates the two knows nothing about either.


I don’t doubt that the OP is passionate about the subject, but that passion has resulted—perhaps inadvertently—in a sensationalistic and inaccurate post.

[BlackSkimmer]

53. Please provide a link?

I’m sorry, but where did you find this? Twitter?

[iemanja]

58. I see nothing about such a law in my search of the news

and since you can't provide a link, one has to wonder why you're even posting this. Perhaps you misunderstood something?

[MayReasonRule]

59. Hear, hear!!!!!!

[onenote]

60. The OP has changed the title of the thread, but hasn't changed the lie in the post

The post still claims that DeSantis "essentially banned circumcision" -- a statement without any basis in fact.

Apparently, the OP believe they are more astute than, for example, the hundreds of thousands of Jewish Florididans, including numerous members of the Florida legislature who haven't argued that the bill bans circumcision. Only the OP, apparently, is smart enough to see the thing that's in the bill that isn't in the bill.

The dishonest (and arrogance) of the OP continues despite the cosmetic change in the title.

[Maraya1969]

62. You obviously missed the entire point. But please excuse my dishonesty and arrogance

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Your "entire point" has drastically moved.

Now you're framing this as an anti-circumcision thread - "circumcision is genital mutilation".

That doesn't, however, have anything to do with the Florida laws. They do not mention "genital mutilation", as links (which you didn't bother with) show. They do not affect circumcision.

[Maraya1969]

66. My point was that circumcision is genital mutilation. And that is based on the way they

do it and it; by cutting and removing tissue. I did not make any declaration s about whether or not circumcision is good or bad. Just that it is genital mutilation. I do not understand why some people can't understand that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. No, that wasn't your point. Here's what your OP used to say, in full:

So DeSantis just banned circumcision I wonder how that will be received by people who want

to circumcise their baby? Especially since the baby cannot give consent.

Maybe everyone should write to him, or all him to ask.

Oh, and if it is excused because it is part of the Jewish religion then I hope others will create a religion that supports surgery for trans and other people.

Kind of like "The church of the flying spaghetti monster"

Your point was about the law, which you apparently hadn't read (and, I suspect, still haven't read), but assumed things about (which no one else was assuming).

[TheProle]

70. Thank you

[Takket]

67. circumcision is not "multilation"

mutilation means that something has been damaged to the point of not functioning as intended or functioning at all.

I am circumcised and I assure you I have not been "mutilated".

Also babies don't need to consent to circumcision. That's what parents are for. To make decisions for people too young to do it on their own.

Here's mutilation used in a sentence if the definition is not clear: Threads like this mutilate the goal of DU to be a place that shuns ignorance and encourages fact based discussions.

[MayReasonRule]

81. Infant Circumcision Is Child Abuse And Genital Mutilation

Threads like this reveal those within our midst that lack the reason to recognize barbarism.

Have a better one.

[Goodheart]

94. Truth.

[Goodheart]

93. Of course it is.

The foreskin has been damaged to the point of not functioning. We uncircumcised men are quite aware of and happy with its function.

[Orrex]

72. Argument by assertion is a fallacy even if you don't want to believe it

Also, pulling a “dirty delete” as you’ve done here is really low class.

[Ms. Toad]

76. Read the bill. It does not ban genital mutilation.

It bans "sex reassignment" surgery, with a very specific definition which does not include either circumcision or any other form of genital mutilation done for purposes other than "sex reassignment." Connecting this to the bill recently signed by DeSantis by suggesting that he has banned circumcision is fake news. We need to be better than that.

While I'm generally opposed to circumcision of infants, because it permanently alters the penis of child with little to no health benefits, this bill isn't about genital mutilation. It is about "sex reassignment" surgery.

[Bmoboy]

77. Early in my nursing career

Early in my nursing career I briefly worked in a newborn nursery and assisted in a circumcision

The baby boy had his diaper removed and he was spread eagled and all four limbs strapped to a plastic board.

Screaming began.No anesthetic.

A device was slid under the foreskin and a portion of the foreskin was cut away.

Much screaming.

I believe they use some topical anesthetic (lidocaine?) now. Still strapped speed eagled to the board. Still sore after the procedure for a day or so, especially after peeing.

Welcome to the world. Let me cut off this part of you.

This was before the birth off my two sons. They were not circumcised and their sons were not circumcised.

I was circumcised in 1951. Nobody asked me for consent.

No matter the reason for circumcision, it seems like an angry greeting.

Don't get me started on the mohel who transmitted herpes by kissing circumcised penises after the cut.

Mutilation? That would be a personal judgment. I don't think much of tattoos, piercings, or scarification.

As to DeSantis. He's a nut.

[radius777]

78. Evolution determined that the penis should have a foreskin,

which is not a defect but a natural part of the human male penis.

There is no medical reason for routine circumsion, an outdated practice that is driven mainly by religious superstition, class conformity and irrational hygiene and moral fears.

A few (specious, IMO) studies show some benefit (lower STD rates) - but there are other ways (condoms, safe sex) to reduce STD's that don't involve the non-consensual alteration of the body.

[MayReasonRule]

80. Goddamn Right! Infant Circumcision Is Genital Mutilation . Period.

Outlaw routine infant circumcision.

Outlaw men sucking the blood from a baby's dick after they've cut off the foreskin.

FFS!!

May reason rule.

[Goodheart]

95. Amen.

[PCIntern]

83. My genitals feel just fine....

Anti-Semitic tropes are full of this “mutilation “ horseshit.

[sky_masterson]

84. I miss the old lounge Circumcision arguments

It was a cut above most arguments. It was the tip of awesomeness.

[11 Bravo]

89. People went to great lengths to flesh out their own personal convictions.

[sky_masterson]

90. People often were

dicks in those threads. But a slice of fun they were

[Behind the Aegis]

96. So true, replete with cheesy arguments too!

[Mad_Machine76]

91. Not to mention surgery on intersex children

to make their genitals look "normal" based on whatever gender designation their parents and/or doctors want to give them.