Do you think people here in the US will ever be able to live in harmony with each other?

[debm55]

Or are the republicans will always be going after us for any and all reasons?

[bucolic_frolic]

1. No. Harmony is an illusion where opposition is weak.

We harmonized for WWII, but how much was hidden for National security? America is a collection of private interests, though we do commit to patriotism and principle. Or at least we did.

[debm55]

2. So you don't think the republicans will ever stop with their bullshit?

[bucolic_frolic]

3. No, i don't think they ever have, but they do get out of power for periods of time.

Money and business and politics and power are what they are about. Period.

[NowISeetheLight]

4. Too Many Stupid People

There are too many stupid people who are basically sheep and believe things like Faux News. They don’t understand how things like inflation, gas prices, social security and healthcare work. They’re uneducated and believe what they’re fed. I don’t think they can be fixed.

[roamer65]

5. With the northward climate change migration, hell NO.

When their food supply and general ecosystem are collapsing, people don’t get along.

They start WARS.

[debm55]

7. We know that Joe and the Dems are trying very hard to fix the problems, it is sad to think that what

our country is now, is what is always going to be because of the Republicans refusals to work with us.

[roamer65]

10. 1.5C average temp rise is baked into the cake now.

Let’s see what happens at 2C then 3C which are coming.

The Dems trying, but there is not the worldwide will to solve the problem yet.

[Axelrods_Typewriter]

6. My first instinct is no, but I never thought the events of the past 7 years could happen either

so who knows. Maybe someday a pleasant surprise will happen.

[roamer65]

8. This is not a recipe for "getting along".

https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/

The more liberal northern blue states are not going to want the MAGAt section of northerly climate migration.

[CrispyQ]

9. No. Climate change is the game changer that has stopped the clock on our social evolution.

It's all downhill from here as we all scramble for resources & survival. The rich are buying bunkers & the wealthy are buying caves.

There was an interesting article a few months ago, written by a man who consults with rich people about how to prepare/survive the coming social disorder. When the rich guys (yes they were all men) asked the consultant how they can guarantee their security people don't steal from them or betray them in other ways, the consultant said, make them part of your group, your team, your family. Their response? They wanted to know if there is some kind of collar they could design that would monitor/shock their staff who would have to wear them.

It's the WITTs against the YOYOs. *

WITTs = We're In This Together

YOYOs = You're On Your Own

* Credit to Jared Bernstein for this analogy.

[flamingdem]

11. Do you by chance have a link for that article?

Sounds shocking!

[CrispyQ]

14. Found it. It's a long article. This is just a snippet.

The super-rich ‘preppers’ planning to save themselves from the apocalypse

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff

snip...

They started out innocuously and predictably enough. Bitcoin or ethereum? Virtual reality or augmented reality? Who will get quantum computing first, China or Google? Eventually, they edged into their real topic of concern: New Zealand or Alaska? Which region would be less affected by the coming climate crisis? It only got worse from there. Which was the greater threat: global warming or biological warfare? How long should one plan to be able to survive with no outside help? Should a shelter have its own air supply? What was the likelihood of groundwater contamination? Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system, and asked: “How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?” The event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, solar storm, unstoppable virus, or malicious computer hack that takes everything down.

This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from raiders as well as angry mobs. One had already secured a dozen Navy Seals to make their way to his compound if he gave them the right cue. But how would he pay the guards once even his crypto was worthless? What would stop the guards from eventually choosing their own leader?

The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers – if that technology could be developed “in time”.

It’s as if they want to build a car that goes fast enough to escape from its own exhaust
I tried to reason with them. I made pro-social arguments for partnership and solidarity as the best approaches to our collective, long-term challenges. The way to get your guards to exhibit loyalty in the future was to treat them like friends right now, I explained. Don’t just invest in ammo and electric fences, invest in people and relationships. They rolled their eyes at what must have sounded to them like hippy philosophy.

[Kaleva]

12. Humans aren't wired for that.

[GoodRaisin]

13. Not likely.

If anything, the Cabal seems to be tightening it’s grip.

[debm55]

15. I guess it is wishful thinking on my part. Since tRump the assholes have come from beneath their

rocks. I was wishing they would go back or at least make an attempt to work with us as. Yes, I am naive to think that way, but I wish it could happen.

[Butterflylady]

16. No!!

But that is why they will eventually they will destroy themselves.

[cbabe]

17. We tried: New Harmony, Indiana est 1814

https://newharmony-in.gov › about-new-harmony.php

About New Harmony | Official Site of New Harmony Town Government

New Harmony, Indiana, (Population 915) is a small historic town located on the Wabash River in southwestern Indiana. During the early part of the 19th century, New Harmony was the site of two attempts to establish Utopian communities. The first, Harmonie (1814-1825), was founded by the Harmonie Society, a group of Separatists from the German ...

(Curious Buttigieg and AC Barrett came from the same town and culture and religion. And still no harmony between them.)

[Chainfire]

18. We will be able to live in peace when the bullies realize that they can't win.

It may be an expensive lesson.

[Mysterian]

19. Not as long as we have hatemongers spewing lies 24/7 on radio and TV

And preachers preaching hate in their churches.

[debm55]

20. I agree. Wish it would end. But I don't the see hatemongers stopping or the preachers preaching

Last edited Sat May 20, 2023, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

peace anytime soon.

[Ozzi]

21. Yes I hope so

I think such extreme damaging divisions in US is primarily due to your politics, elections, education and overwhelming wealth/power inequity. That has been my impression from travelling a year all around your Country on the cheap (incredible human diveristy and natural scenery), and from daily watching a wide variety of US news and commentary since Trump became a Presidential Candidate.
Best way to fix such negative division, in my opinion, is to vote like your Democracy is at risk. Help the Democrats get a truth & unity message out & that crucial 55% vote (just to win an election due to gerrymandering, voter interference, candidate/media tricks etc) and get that vital 60% vote in House and Senate so that changes can be made. EG so that Supreme Court can be expanded to a more balanced ideological power, alongside an assigned watchdog & with term limits; and so that real public infrastructure, social/health safety nets are in place, so reasonable equality and trust can start to flow thru your communities. Push back at all levels where trickery and extreme ideological powermongering is obviously in development (inform the public of best leadership/political/community caring practice, especially where you see Republican/Extreme Leadership cheating and where theres fear inducing poitical messaging; Use simple, but repetitive, ongoing, Compare & Contrast messages, graphs, maps & slogans. Show a Repub future. Show a Dem future. Use A! maybe. Or street theatre. Be creative. eg How would you like to live with extreme book banning, word banning, political weaponization, racist and sexist and homophobic restrictions, guns everywhere, anger and fear everywhere, election cheating and unfair and extreme wealth/power inequity, less Community welfare organisations and safeguards. Having your hormones checks. No access to any pregnancy controls. Restrictions on marriage. Put that all into a picture story somehow. Discuss your audience's desire to have their children's respect and a safe, harmonious happy future. List Repub history of crimes and corruption. Show maps of other State's and Country's human freedoms and rights (or lack thereof). Use clever imagery.
Anyway get the message out somehow for that crucial 2024 Election. Get your best Public/Worker/Equity-Priority Political Party into power and push them to do the best they can to bring about greater equality and less widespread mental health angst and mistrust. When all genders feel beter informed and educated, truly heard and empowered, with more channels to power, more recreated and reflective time; you may just find that there is more caring and less division in society. (check my other cple of rambling posts, all done whilst suffering the flu unfortunately and Im still not 100% now after 3 weeks!)
So Nothings perfect. It just needs to be good enough to improve, not bad enough to be a runaway train of disinformation and dis-service. You need the best Power/ Influence leadership practice to help valued minorities, middle class and encourage trust happiness and diversity. Governments model, Citizens copy. To help all ages, Women and Men (and all genders inbetween) to be able to bring out their best creativity, individuality and carer roles.
It all starts with getting your best public/worker/consumer/ environmentally focused political party into power with a reasonably qualified, qualitative opposition Party(s) to publically bounce at least half decent alternative ideas and practices around. Yo need 2+ Political Parties to compare and contract and create qualitative,creative ideas and safeguards.
It can happen. We have it, in general, here in Australia. Use us for good examples where you see they best fit. Less Guns, Less mass murder. Cheap Meds (under $10). Easy to see doctors,dentists psychologists. School Counsellors. Free health, dental and mental care. A growing NDIS (Disability) service. Abundant reasonable public schools, Universities, Colleges, roads, transport, welfare organisations. Safe to move around and have conflicting discussions with people. No general sense of unease to be in public. Quality emergency responders and fairly decent Police practices who don't majority shoot then ask. A Political Party that is bringing in a referendum on The Voice for 1st Nation Governmental Imput. Bringing in a Federal Government Watchdog that was promised at last election. Decent Welfare funding as your look for work or are disabled. Substantive Parent payments for single parents up until child is a teen. (unfortunately not enough reasonable rentals or housing in most states so theres still suffering) Easy Elections. Less Elections. Judges dont have to campaign or fundraise. They are assigned by the Governor General and must retire at 70. Majority of Australians trust science, experts, leaders but can easily contact their local Fed and State leaders to complain. Protests are rarely violent. Publicaly owned basic human need infrastrusture is common, eg part owned Elect grid in West State, Government assistance with elect & phone bills. Well serviced public parks. As a result, we have almost wall to wall Labor Party (the people's party)
So please push back hard on Trumpy Republicans and their promotion for a restricted, imbalanced, distrustful, dangerous future. That is n ideological Cult that is out of control and pushing an ideologically divisive, destructive, uncaring theme purely for the political wealth/power racist/sexist unstable sub-groups. US citizens need to bring back the idea that basic public welfare is not evil. Helping is not bad. A good community looks after the weakest link it can. It doesnt use the weakest link for ideological/financial bigoted greed. A well helped community brings about less crime, less cost & more creativity. Rules & Regulations are always needed and seen as best practice when they protect environment, diversity, water, air. and the majority low to middle community needs. Dont be afraid of a partial welfare/public owned protected social/material environment. It cant and shouldn't be all private enterprise. Both public and private funding have a place. Greed and anti-competitive Corporate takeovers should be judged by experts and stopped if its not in the best public interest. Putting the public first results in less division.
If you can get Democrats back into senior power for awhile, then they can hopefully be brave enough to change that silly 60% House/Senate vote to a more realistic 55% vote to bring about bills and change. To bring back reasonable abortion rules (power back to doctors, women, families) and to expand and resource public/civic educational learning.
So
1st Vote, Help others vote.
2nd Quality improved vital Public social/Material needs infrastructure. Improve your Public Education systems (less Charter schools, more checks on schools and home educating families. I was happy to be checked as a short term home educating parent here in Australia), Improve your Justice system (add to the number of judges and put a watchdog over your Supreme Court, put in term limits), Vehicle checks & extensive electric Transport networks, Best practice Election systems (less trickery, limit private corporate funding, maybe shorter and just Mayor, State and Federal Elections and better safer Policing practices (way less destructive opportunistic civil forfeiture and corrupt dangerous cops and less guns so Police can be effective). Clean Air and Clean Water and Diverse Environments equaly happier citizens.
3rd Substantially less powerful number of guns in the Community. Watch out for any collective groups amassing weaponry. Take off any restrictions you have on researching the effect of guns in your society. Bring in laws about age limits, safeguarding weapons from children, Access etc.
4th Maintain/Increase social research to improve equity between most gender and individual differences , eg consider health, age, power, influence, income and family. Safeguard Families and children and schools.
5th More diversity in Media. Some control on news media takeovers & lies, Research the effect and control of unhealthy or dangerously influential social media and AI technologies. Watchdog for outside Country influence. Educate the public to discern extreme, untruthful, unhealthy messaging. Involve public in decisionmaking at all levels.
6th Greater Governmental communication access. Right to March and protest. Work towards an Involved Constituency.
7th Fairer Worker wage, holidays, family days and Right to Unionize
8th Build Trust between people and organisations, Improve community safety and watchdog business practice. Help people more than punish people. Give people more time from work to recreate and reflect and see outside their lifestyle sphere. Create opportunities for happiness and advancement, to save money and reduce crime. Support those who are single parents, disabled, disadvantaged. Use Affirmative Action where appropriate. Keep History access and truth (eg fund libraries and museums etc). Work to make Public and Private institutions reflect the variety of individual differences in the community.
8th Reasonable but vital Financial and business watchdogs and safeguards. Best building practice. Truthful Real Estate institutions. Watchdog over most industries.
Probably overlapped here but its just a brainstormed list of ideas to encourage a happier, safer and more harmonious community. Much of which is happening already in many many countries. Plus with the public happier and more trusting or educated, you can actually save money as there is less broken, less angst, less desperation, less protective bubbles. Last budget handed down was predicting a surplus even as social net was increased.
When I was in the US I actually felt like people didn't trust others. I stayed with wealthy and poor people (as well as months of in-car sleeping/cooking at public parks) and there was a strong sense of highly cautious contractual relationships, a watchful eye, a barrier to get through. I did see that when the barrier was broken, solidarity and loyalty was generally strong, but the barrier was equally strong. Here in Australia, people are much less guarded, more open. I think I shocked a few people in my unguarded casual, manner and in turn I was shocked when there was so much doubt about my honesty and integrity. I was just a young women travelling alone, not someone who looked a threat.

So Primarily:
Get a Public/Worker Political Party into power. Encourage safeguards, equity, engagement and access. Increase public Need/Support infrastructure. Have Public Broadcasting News/Radio Channels, Hospitals, Schools & libraries. But private choice is always a good idea as well. Open public institutions etc all up to the public eye as much as possible. Especially Governmental/Leadership/Justice processes. Focus on connections and support between public subgroups. Build up Community/Scientific/ Governmental/Business safety and trust. Built up your International Status as a quality democratic model to other Countries. Garner and expand International Support and Protections. Create a healthy National Pride in citizens, country and diversity, alongside respect for each other's individualism and culteral differences. Maintain appropriate individal freedoms, consumer protections, high level awareness attitudes & good commnity respectful behaviour.
It starts with helping your Democrat party build up their 55-60% 2024 vote. Sadly they are the only political party that is a healthy functioning political party. Two good political parties are ideal. Here in Australia, you get fined if you dont vote (engage) and I am truly truly thankful for that. & its so easy to vote as well. An engaged, educated, easy-going safe-to-be around citizenship generally has much less division. So....
Vote Well! For all our sakes.

[debm55]

24. Ozzi. thank you for your well thought out post.It us inspiring what you posted. Your country seems

very enlightened. It shows in the ways it has safety nets for the poor, elderly, and disabled. The post is breathtaking in scope and provides ideas that Americans can use. However, se have one half of our population not interested in those ideas. They only want the power. I will bookmark to read more thoroughly after dinner, Also, welcome to DU.

[Sky Jewels]

25. Welcome to DU!

Thanks for your insights.

Lucky you, living in Oz!

[Sympthsical]

22. I think most people mostly do

Social media and MSM are designed to highlight and keep in the forefront the most vigorous divisions possible. The outliers consume the most oxygen, because they are on the edges.

It’s because the craziest and most radical are more easily utilized to galvanize opposition and acquire power.

If every Republican ever is a super Nazi, well, then you kind of have to oppose them, right?

It’s not incredibly healthy. Most people want to be left alone.

Meanwhile, I live around both liberals and conservatives, and I have yet to have a shouting match with anyone in a CVS.

Maybe my life is weird.

[debm55]

27. I also started a post today on what can we change about the media. I agree with your post--they are

Last edited Sat May 20, 2023, 08:09 PM - Edit history (1)

in fact adding wood to the fire to make it burn. I had an incident this morning where a woman was laying on her horn. I went out to see if eveything was okay. Mind you, I live on a dead end street. I walked out of the house and down to the street. She is in this big maga truck. I walked up to her truck and asked her if I could help her, She starts screaming at me that she is lost. I tell her how to get out--simply back down the street and make a left turn. Again, she starts screaming at me. Picks up something off of the other seat. I am blind in one eye and finally realized it was a phone. But for a very split second, I thought it could have been a gun. She called me a MF and backs down the street. It hurts me to say, I will be a little bit more careful offering help and getting so close to strangers. It really does hurt that I would think not to help.

[Sympthsical]

28. It does feel like a lot of society is "on edge"

I have my theories about that. I think Covid broke a lot of people. It degraded social adjustment, and people just kind of forgot how to behave around others. It made me realize that social adjustment is something that needs to be continuously reinforced for a lot of people. Once someone becomes more isolated, they become the main character in life. Everything that happens around them is either useful to or in opposition to them. If you're having a bad day, like that woman you mentioned was, she probably perceived and reacted to you as working against her in some way.

Which, of course, isn't your fault. It's just unpleasant to deal with.

But even without Covid, I think increased socialization online vs. real life has led to this isolation and insular perceptions of society. Covid aggravated the hell out of it. The media don't help. Every story is a hair on fire affair. We see the worst. "Shelly in Bumfuck, Idaho made a racist comment to a passerby, and we've got the video!" Why do I care about Shelly? I do not care about Shelly. Shelly's an asshole. I'm sure the people in her life are aware. But why do I, 2,000 miles away, need a constant stream of Shelly incidents as my daily media diet? We're a nation of nearly 340 million people. There's going to be assholes. It doesn't mean everyone's an asshole or even likely to be an asshole.

But if your perceptions are shaped by a steady diet of assholes, lunatics, Nazis, racists, and violence, well, yeah. It's going to be very easy to believe most of the world works that way. Because, in your world and the reality you're living in, it's a nonstop barrage of those things.

And I think it's just making people crazy across the board. I can't count the number of times I read things on social media, various stories, clearly made up tales to gain social currency and think, "Have you ever met actual people? Actual people do not behave this way or talk this way or think this way." Not everyone behaves like an anxiety-addled shut-in. That's projection.

But it's very, very difficult to make people self-aware of it or to perceive the toxicity that is the daily diet of "information" they're consuming. It's like sugar. As an adult, I can tell if I've eaten too much sugar. Vague nausea or sense of not feeling well. Queasy. Just kind of ugh. With the internet, it's the same thing. I can only get so far into social media in a day before I realize, "This is all shit. There is nothing useful here. I will neither gain, learn, nor find insight by sifting through this landfill any further." And then I just tap out. Full on walk away from interactions. Those people who constantly need the last word? I'm like the anti-matter to that. There's nothing useful in my being in their presence any longer.

And I think this is a skill a lot of people have lost in recent years. Instead, it's constant engagement, fighting, arguing, getting into it and it being mistaken for "doing something." Drinking is also doing something. But no one calls that productive. So why this addiction is valued is yet a mystery. Maybe because it's a socially acceptable one.

Whew. Sorry. Finals week. I'm getting very, very used to typing long things without realizing it. I think I have a point in there somewhere.

[debm55]

29. You did my friend, your words were very helpful to me. Earlier today, for that split second, I

thought being helpful to a stranger was the right thing to do, as I always done. Yes, there are tons of Shelly in Bumfuck, Idaho doing nasty things. There is a constant race to mention it in media. I will continue to be the person I am. Thank you for your post.

[Sky Jewels]

23. Maybe when enough people born before 1980 or so die off,

we'll reach critical mass of less insane, less religious, more diverse, more liberal people who want things like gun control and universal healthcare and full access to abortion and climate change measures and so on...

(Yes, I am one of those born before 1980. I know, I know, "not all older people are conservative...&quot

[debm55]

26. I am 68. Most of my very "liberal" friends are the "what's in it for me" and the hell with every

else. Both my husband and I still believe in liberal policies and safeguards for the poor, sick, disabled, and homeless. Contrary to Repulican thought, we need safety nets for those not able to provide for themselves. My friends think otherwise.

[BlackSkimmer]

32. Your liberal friends think like that?

Are you sure they're "liberal"? How very odd.

Are they registered Dems?

[debm55]

36. Yes, they are liberal only when it suits themselves. I really don't bother with them as much-. But

are many conservative Democrats in my area. As Democrats, we walk the line with them. This was always been a very blue area, When the Steel Mills many Dems jumped to Regan, I stayed with Carter, It is something we have to see, that there are some people all to eager to jump the fence when it suits them.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

30. Why just here? The whole of human history has been a battleground for power in the world

[debm55]

31. But it just seems more in your face right now. It seems like a constant--day after day, for RWNJ.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. Young generation now seem to get along remarkably

So yes, people will definitely get along better. 20 years?

[elocs]

34. Nope. That bird has flown & is gone forever now.

Each side not only disagrees with its opposite side but believes both they and their intentions are evil. This is a bell that once rung can never be un-rung and really eclipses the Civil War national division over slavery or states' rights.
So in this battle if the Left becomes complacent and does not remain vigilant it does so at its own peril and that of democracy.
American partisan politics is binary so if the Left does not get out and vote for the nominees of the Democratic Party, it only helps the GOP. That's just our reality.

[EX500rider]

35. The majority of us already live in harmony with each other I'd say

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. What do you think that would look like?

[debm55]

38. I think it would be all people working together for the common good of the country, Put aside

hatred of libs and work together.