Russia claims to have taken Bakhmut, Kiev calls situation "critical"

[WarGamer]

It's a Pyrrhic Victory, if there ever was one...

How many thousand men for a small and mostly meaningless city?

https://apnews.com/article/bakhmut-russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-da2fc05b818b3dcc39decd40b17d2d8b

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-wagner-claims-bakhmut-kyiv-says-situation-critical-2023-05-20/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65657621

[littlemissmartypants]

1. From the AP link...

Bakhmut, located about 55 kilometers (34 miles) north of the Russian-held regional capital of Donetsk, had a prewar population of 80,000 and was an important industrial center, surrounded by salt and gypsum mines.

The city, which was named Artyomovsk after a Bolshevik revolutionary when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, also was known for its sparkling wine production in underground caves. Its broad tree-lined avenues, lush parks and stately downtown with imposing late 19th century mansions — all now reduced to a smoldering wasteland — made it a popular tourist destination.

So heartbreaking.

[CanonRay]

2. Pyrrhic victory, at best.

The Ukrainians are going to close in behind them.

[Takket]

3. amazing russia actually found 6 properly equipped troops to pose for a photo

just off camera are all the barefoot former prisoners with slingshots

[Xolodno]

4. And yet a few days ago we were being told...

...Ukraine was making advances into the city and Russian and Wagner troops were retreating and inferring the two were likely to abandon each other. Yet, here we are.

Also, we are told the Russian troops are ill equipped. But a Ukranian Colonel disagrees with that:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ukraine-colonel-dismisses-reports-russians-163833284.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall

I also read an article that Russia doesn't have enough reserves for a counter attack, like less than a 100k...yet last week I read that they had anywhere from 200-300k troops in reserve and preparing for a counter attack on all fronts.

I also read that Russia was nearly out of missiles and has trouble making more....then I read that they average making new missiles around 67 a month.

The best I can conclude we are being lied to by the military and MIC. And the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but that doesn't garner public support around the globe. It's a war of attrition and no one likes those (See Libya and Syria) since it means more dead people, such as brothers, friends, fathers, girlfriends, sisters, etc.

This war will continue until something like this is uttered:

"Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired. My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever." October 5, 1877, Chief Joseph

[Boomerproud]

5. Fog of war.

Who knows what the truth is. The waste and destruction is horrible.

[Tommy Carcetti]

6. The truth is a non-aggressor country was unlawfully invaded by its aggressor neighbor

It is that simple. Full stop.

[Arazi]

7. Propaganda exists on both sides. Normal in wars

[Tommy Carcetti]

8. That being said, it's not hard to understand who is in the right and who is in the wrong here.

Ukraine can only end the war by expelling Russia from its borders, or by surrendering its sovereignty.

Russia can end the war simply by leaving.

[Arazi]

9. Agreed. Was just making a comment about their confusion

I follow several reporters who are in Ukraine which helps to get more unbiased coverage (Twitter).

In fact Ukraine War Twitter timelines are the only reason I’m still active there. Really excellent reporting in real time.

Tim Mak is great. So are (surprisingly) some of the retired US generals

[WarGamer]

10. Unfortunately... right and wrong are meaningless in war.

I'd say EVERY war has a right and wrong side... the victims and the aggressors.

From the first colonies of early humans, they'd venture out in groups into the adjacent valley and attack others.

Your conditions of ending the war will never happen.

I think there will be a compromise when everyone is tired of the killing.

I expect something like... (not my plan, but what I expect)

Russia keeps Crimea. Donbas and Luhansk stay Ukrainian, but possible a compromise for autonomy... and Russia is guaranteed a land bridge to Crimea, through Mariupol and Berdyansk.

In return... Ukraine gets fast track NATO + EU membership to prevent future attacks and a global coalition sends reconstruction and investment funds.

Or I could be wrong and the 2 sides just chew on each other for 10 years.