Biden Says He Has Authority to Use 14th Amendment

[applegrove]

Biden Says He Has Authority to Use 14th Amendment

May 21, 2023 at 7:34 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 29 Comments

https://politicalwire.com/2023/05/21/biden-says-he-has-authority-to-use-14th-amendment/

"SNIP........

“President Biden on Sunday said he believes he has the authority to use the 14th Amendment to unilaterally address the debt ceiling, but he acknowledged potential legal challenges could still lead the nation to default if he went that route,” The Hill reports.

Said Biden: “I’m looking at the 14th Amendment as to whether or not we have the authority — I think we have the authority.”

He added: “The question is, could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed, and as a consequence past the date in question and still default on the debt. That is a question that I think is unresolved.”

..........SNIP"

[MutantAndProud]

1. Just make sure the chain is set up so that the neocon runners can't get their request

To the Supreme Court for an emergency injunction sooner than it’s passed before the influx happens into the treasury etc

[Autumn]

2. Yes he does. There is no reason for him not to use it. These games are getting ridiculous.

[Walleye]

3. Seniors, Republicans don't want you to get your Social Security and are willing to go to the Supreme

Court to keep you from getting your benefits. Everybody knows Republicans are selfish tightwads. As long as they get their money They don’t care about you

[Rebl2]

24. Couldn't agree more

What gets me is MANY republican constituents depend on that social security and Medicare and Medicaid to get by. Why aren’t they screaming about it! They need to call their representatives and let them know they won’t be able to pay their bills and medical bills without it and let them know they won’t vote for them next time there is an election.

[Walleye]

32. They are not screaming about it because they are counting on the Democrats to pull their

Fat out of the fire again. To them it is all a reality show. Maybe they need to miss a check to find out what’s going on. Unfortunately that would mean I would miss a check too. They should look at their doctor bill and see how much Medicare pays. They’d have to pay all of that. I feel there is no way to get through to them at this point.

[wnylib]

36. Those R constituents have been told

that holding up the debt ceiling approval to negotiate budget cuts is normal politics. The media are helping to support that idea. So if Biden refuses to negotiate, then they believe that he is responsible if the US defaults.

Don't underestimate the R constituents' blind loyalty to party. I live in a solidly Republican Congressional District. A Tea Party Republican Congressman for this district consistently voted for reducing SS benefits but sent out self promoting flyers claiming that he stood up for seniors and protected their interests. The R constituents in this district ate it up, reelecting him several times, until he resigned in disgrace over a sexual assault scandal that was too well documented for his usual gaslighting. Even then, he would have stayed in office and the people would have voted for him except that the state Republican party chair told him to resign. (The one who resigned and the state R party chair both wanted to run for governor, so the chair eliminated the competition when he told the assaulter to resign.)

[Botany]

4. Go dark Brandon ... Trump and the GOP ran up this debt and this is just about paying the bills.

FAFO

[elocs]

5. If Biden can use the 14th Amendment as he believes,

he also realizes that it is not an easy-peasy answer to the problem as so many others appear to believe and comes with it's own potential peril, especially with this Supreme Court.
How many here thought that Roe would never be overturned?

[Captain Zero]

14. But Roe was not a ratified amendment, the 14th is

And contains strict constructionist language as well.

[Shrek]

18. None of which authorizes additional borrowing

It refers only to debt already incurred.

[SouthernDem4ever]

38. Which is what has to be covered

This is debt already incurred.

[Dave says]

44. When is the debt "incurred"?

When a program or policy is passed that requires funding? I don’t think so. It could be funded by raising taxes, issuing bonds, or both. The debt is incurred when the bonds are issued, not before.

What is mandatory is the House needs to fund these already passed programs and policies one way or another, or vote to end them. But the Republican House won’t do either. This is an egregious failure to meet the responsibilities of their office.

The Executive Branch, to illustrate, can’t unilaterally cut the defense budget, cancel Medicaid, and raise some taxes to get done most of the programs and policies under the debt ceiling that Congress already voted into place. The debt ceiling puts the Executive in an entirely untenable position. This is where, in a working democracy, the courts would step in and rule the debt limit law unconstitutional and allow the Executive to do its job and chide the House for its attempt at disloyal sabotage. The Republicans in the House should be understood as traitors to our nation.

But the Robert’s Clown Car of a SCOTUS won’t do its job. Default is the order of the day. Our democracy transforms more fully into a kleptocracy. And Putin throws another party across the pond.

Please, please talk me down from the ledge!!

[SouthernDem4ever]

48. If the debt hasn't been incurred, would we be threatened with default?

As far as the rest of your comment you'll get no argument here.

[Marius25]

16. If the Supreme Court rejects the 14th Amendment, Biden should ignore them

They don't even have the authority to rule on its Constitutionality.

[Demsrule86]

19. It is an amendment. The court has no role in this...but this is what happened when Roosevelt

stopped using the gold standard. And a rightie SCOTUS ruled in his favor.

[Sympthsical]

33. The Court absolutely has the right to interpret an amendment

It's kind of their whole job.

[peppertree]

23. Hear, hear. What's Thomass going to do?

Throw a Coke can at the White House?

[eShirl]

6. do it

[calimary]

29. Yep. Just do it.

[Gore1FL]

7. The 14th Ammendment says he has the autority, too. nt

[Demsrule86]

21. Hi! How are you...and you are right...he has the authority and I believe the duty to do this and

save the economy. Trump said yesterday that he wants to crash the debt ceiling so I doubt a deal can be reached and we need to attack the GOP on this every day .

[Turbineguy]

8. "....enemies, foreign and domestic..."

[Fiendish Thingy]

10. That's not part of the presidential oath. Nt

[calimary]

27. True, but it certainly describes these times.

[617Blue]

9. House GOP will NEVER vote to lift the debt ceiling...

they are crazy fuckers who literally think that God has sent them to DC to do his work.

Hopefully Biden has been "negotiating" only for show. Surely the Admin realizes who they are dealing with right?

[global1]

11. Don't Think You Can Do It. Don't Question It. In The Spirit Of The Company Nike......

Just Do It!!!

Don't leave the subject open for the Repugs to know that you are thinking and questioning it. That gives them the green light to challenge it.

If the shoe were on the other foot - they would just go ahead and invoke the 14th Amendment without 'thinking or questioning' it. All their talking heads would be supporting the invoking of it. They would be saying they are damn sure they could invoke it. They would do it and wouldn't look back.

We Dems need to develop that same attitude. Just Do It!!!

[CentralMass]

25. All though Phil Knight most like sides with the republicans on this one.

[Hotler]

12. Joe, quit fucking around a do it. Stop trying to play Mr. Nice guy with fascist.

Same goes for Garland.

[Cha]

45. Pres Biden is NOT 'fucking around".. he

knows what he's doing.. those who only want to Rush don't.

Same with AG Garland.

[Hotler]

50. .....

https://spoutible.com/thread/7359937

[Takket]

13. I have a dumb question..........

Everybody keeps asking "can he use the 14th?" Why don't they just put in some sort of emergency request to SCOTUS and say "can you please tell us NOW if we can use the 14th?" Like, this doesn't seem to be a "pull the pin in June 1st and hope the grenade actually explodes otherwise we're all fucked" kind of thing. We should know full well BEFORE the government runs out of money whether this "works" or not.

[Captain Zero]

15. Invoke it now and stamp a Brazillion dollar coin.

Immediately.

[jcgoldie]

22. Brazilian $1 is only worth 20 cents US...

Won't effect the debt ceiling much...

[LakeArenal]

39. Every Republican boss said this to me when they wanted to do something g questionable...

Just do it. It’s easier to get forgiveness than permission.

We already know there will be a rw firestorm no matter what route Biden takes.

[tritsofme]

49. Federal courts do not issue advisory opinions.

There must be an actual case or controversy for them to decide.

[JohnSJ]

17. If the 14th amendment is invoked the SC should circumvent the appeal process, and decide

[no_hypocrisy]

20. You mean the Shadow Docket deal?

Last edited Sun May 21, 2023, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Or will it be the "full treatment"?

[JohnSJ]

40. They already do it for a lot of things. The best chance though is a discharge petition, and find 5

House republicans in blue districts

[JohnSJ]

41. They already do it for a lot of things. The best chance though is a discharge petition, and find 5

House republicans in blue districts

[bucolic_frolic]

26. Biden is shrewd and I'd bet he rarely goes where he doesn't know the answer

Could it be coupled with wartime national security? Default will be a national emergency.

[Freethinker65]

28. This is Biden's compromise.

Come to the table with legitimate policies we can come to agreement on with some back and forth effort, or I will expose your ultimatum wish list which does nothing but help your big donors at the expense of average Americans. Then I will do my Presidential duty and invoke the 14th Amendment. The USA does not default on its debts.

Do your job, Kevin.

[elocs]

30. If the 14th Amendment is such a simple solution to the debt ceiling problem,

Biden would have done it by now. But he doesn't believe it is and he must have trusted advisors who tell him it's not a simple solution. Lots of smart people are on both sides of using the 14th. But if he does use it, then we will find out if it was the answer or not. I'm not sure if it is but I'm willing to admit I was wrong about it. But will all who are crowing about to just use it, no problems, be willing to admit they were wrong if it does not go well? I doubt it.

[EndlessWire]

47. Between a rock and a hard place

Once Trump announced that he told the Repubs not to compromise because the Dems would cave and give them what they want, these negotiations were doomed. There are simply too many Repubs afraid of Trump.

There is no real interest in negotiating by the Repubs. It is a sham. When McCarthy announced that there would be no further negotiating until Biden returned from G7, you knew something was up.

I don't think, from what I have read here, that any DUer thinks it will be easy to invoke the 14A. But, if the Repubs are just toying with us, and I believe that they are, then you can take one of a few positions. You can say, I trust Joe to do the best thing possible for the country (without knowing what that would be yourself); you can say, Just invoke the 14th and get it over with; You can advocate printing more money to pay bills incurred by the Trump regime (the easiest way out, IMO, like getting a second credit card to pay the first card); or you can continue to attempt negotiating with the tyranical GOP in a vain attempt to move them. We are tired.

I think that Joe is doing a combination of two things: continuing to offer to negotiate, right up until the witching hour, and solid legal research and advice by those that know on invoking the 14thA. We cannot default, and we won't. But neither are we going to let the likes of Trump do the negotiating, nor are we going to let the GOP dictate what will turn out to be devastating terms for millions of older folks who are dependent on what the fascist Repubs want to take away.

So, IMO, those that are calling for the 14thA might be a tad premature, but not by much, because we all can sense what is coming. And, we all know it won't go smoothly. But, what choice is there? Mr. Fifteen Times McCarthy is following what Trump dictated.

I call for the 14thA, myself. I am particularly curious about the language that any insurrection debt is invalid. This should be something to work with. If Trump's entire debt schemes were invalid because he planned an insurrection, what would that mean to the debt ceiling? Lots to think about.

[ancianita]

31. Biden is playing this brilliantly.

Say he's right and rethugs file suit in court.

Even if a conservative court doesn't dismiss their suit on constitutional grounds, Biden's DOJ still has all the documented evidence -- gained in congressional meetings and negotiations -- to prove that rethugs "questioned" the debt per the 14th. Appeal might be done, but that's where the suit will end.

Right there the resolved question ends trumpcult political games. The court's ruling now stands as precedent. Rethugs may try new tacks, but "shall not be questioned" will override any new tricks, as well.

Which is why he can say in Hiroshima that rethugs have backtracked and said they will not default.

[Walleye]

34. If they can ignore the 14th amendment, we can ignore the second amendment, so there

[David__77]

35. Sometimes "I think... caveat caveat" is ineffective politically.

And this is a political question, not principally a technical one.

At the same time I can why one might conclude it must be done at last moment.

[Marthe48]

37. Invoke at the 11th Hour

Let the traitors sue. Better still, arrest them all for being traitors and then invoke the 14th. They'll have to make bail before they try their revolting antics. Maybe they'll understand the freedoms they are ruining and stfu.

[Dave says]

42. The Repubs will impeach him

They won’t convict, but it will be (they’ll think) the perfect retaliatory attack on Biden’s and the Democrat’s reputation ahead of 2024.

On edit: but that’s where we’re headed. I don’t see any other likely path.

The problem with this is buyers of Treasuries will demand a high risk premium in face of the fact that courts could deny the validity of the debt sold under the 14th amendment. That’s very likely what will happen. That means all fiscal instruments that base their rates on treasury bonds will also skyrocket, plunging us into a recession. It’s a perfect win-win for power-only focused MAGATs. It gives them more propaganda weight than if we slip into default because they won’t budge in negotiations.

Anyone see a better path and outcome?

[usonian]

43. Biden can, and should, ignore the GOP's debt suicide attempt

https://democraticunderground.com/1016352142

Biden can, and should, ignore the GOP's debt suicide attempt
BY ROBERT HOCKETT AND LAURENCE TRIBE
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/4009101-biden-can-and-should-ignore-the-gops-debt-suicide-attempt/

I added, from that opinion piece:

In 1974, Congress took charge of the federal budgeting process in a way it had not done before. The precipitant was “The Imperial Presidency” of Richard M. Nixon, who had developed a worrying penchant for regularly impounding — that is, refusing to spend — funds that Congress had appropriated for specifically authorized federal programs. In effect, Nixon had been flouting both Congress’s Article I “power of the purse,” of which some commentators make pointlessly heavy weather, and the Constitution’s own Article II “take care” clause, pursuant to which the president must “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.”

(details)


Lest there be any doubt on this score, we suggest that conservatives note how the current incarnation of the no longer meaningful (since 1974) Liberty Bond Act of 1917 is a would-be freestanding ceiling whose disregard leaves in place all sections of Title 31 that authorize needed borrowing — per the U.S. Code Subchapter I, sections 3102 through 3106. Conservative critics are accordingly dead wrong again, be it deliberately or inadvertently, in suggesting that we and others are proposing the president borrow without congressional authority. 

(snip)

We say it because this isn’t about “Biden versus Congress,” or even about “Biden versus the MAGA faction of the House Republican Caucus,” at all. It’s about that minority faction versus … Congress itself.

Let’s cure this schizophrenia now. President Biden, Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) and all reasonable Republicans should kindly call the MAGA conservatives’ bluff. Simply ignore the 1917 vintage debt ceiling, which is now null and void, and abide by the 1974 budget law. You will be vindicating our Constitution and preserving our constitutional republic in so doing.

The authors say that Biden is trying to avoid exercising a line-item veto — that is, ”prioritizing” repayments as some MAGA Republicans have demanded. I vaguely remember line-item vetoes --- seems that I had other priorities at the time they were in the news.

[ZonkerHarris]

46. The 14th Amendment is a law the GOP is gnoring.