I want to leave Florida. It ain't that easy

[Cyrano]

I often find myself thinking of my grandparents who had to leave the only country they'd ever known to come here to America. It must have been terrifying to head for a place where there was no one you knew and you didn't speak the language. I can always picture them on a boat in New York Harbor, sailing past the Statue of Liberty, looking at it with awe, knowing they had arrived in a safe place where they could be free.

This is no longer the country they came to. Fascism is on the march, and Florida is right up there in the lead. Fighting our fascist governor and legislature is virtually impossible. They've gerrymandered the state, and installed voter suppression "rules," to the point where it's virtually impossible for them to lose control in the foreseeable future.

As few as ten years ago, no one thought that FL would have a ban on abortion after six weeks, no need for a license to carry a gun, bans on countless books, attacks on education and banning the teaching of true American history, "Don't say gay." And it really is becoming ever more worrisome here if you're Black, Jewish, Muslim, or anyone who isn't a specific type of white, "Christian." Many here don't hesitate to fly confederate flags, but I'm guessing it's just a matter of time before some people will feel free to display swastikas.

I've lived here for many years now and moving means leaving behind friends, community, a way of life, and there are also financial considerations. I know how difficult it would be to start over again in someplace sane and new.

I now realize the tremendous courage that my grandparents had and I hope that I can find in myself. Nonetheless, this is not a place in which I wish to remain.

[dem4decades]

1. Sadly they are trying to make America like Florida, and they may succeed.

I wonder if they take control of the US government, what will it be like in a state like Massachusetts. Will the Nazi's there take control too?

[FakeNoose]

2. You're always welcome here in Pennsylvania

Our winters might be a little colder here than Florida, but our summer and fall weather is delightful compared to what you're used to. I know there's a lot more to it than that. It's a very big decision, and your friends in DU will support whatever you choose.

[onethatcares]

3. we left Pennsylvania 45 years ago

for Florida. There is no way in hell I'd move back. Reasons being; Winters, heating costs, state income tax, city right to work taxes, crappy roads, and who knows what else?

We've been here those 40 odd years and now my 3 sisters and brother have moved here for those same reasons.

[claudette]

6. Personally

I wouldn’t move to Florida if you paid me. Huge roaches. AC all the time. Hurricanes and now DeSantis.

[FakeNoose]

12. LOL you sound like me, Claudette

Don't forget the insects! They have the hugest, scariest flying and crawling bugs in Florida I've ever seen. They have snakes too and they're everywhere. Fire ants crawling up your legs and biting while you stand in the backyard, alligators hiding anywhere near water - OMG it's terrifying.

If you go to Florida in the summer, you can't even go outside after 12 noon until the sun goes down. The heat and humidity are unbearable. You have to store cereal and flour in the refrigerator, or else mealy bugs get in them.

I'm laughing at myself for saying all this, but I've been to Florida too many times. I'd NEVER live there and that was before DeSantis ever set foot in Florida.

[claudette]

15. Went to Miami once

a long time ago for vacation. Vowed right then and there I would NEVER go back. And haven’t. Now it is totally ruined with DeSantis

[Aristus]

22. God, Miami is a hellhole!

I went there in order to embark on our honeymoon cruise. Had to stay overnight. Never, ever going back.

[Disaffected]

53. I can imagine what's it's like in summer.

I once spent six weeks in a Huston summer and would NEVER live in a climate like that. The heat and humidity were so bad one could not bear to be outside for more than a few minutes. Inside the air conditioned hotel it was cooler but always felt clammy, especially when crawling into bed. Maybe it's just what you are used to but I would always choose a temperate cold winter/warm dry summer over such places.

[claudette]

79. It was in

October and I could barely breathe from the humidity.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

144. It wasn't the humidity that hampered your breathing

It was the pollution. Houston has some of the filthiest air in the country, from all those petrochemical plants nearby, plus the entire city is sitting in a swamp. Put millions of people on top of that swamp, driving around in cars and using AC nonstop, and you get the most toxic air stew imaginable.

Go down the coast to Padre Island, where it's just as humid, and the breathing problems pretty much go away.

Because the air is cleaner down there.

[carpetbagger]

118. Breezier than Houston, more clouds and t-storms to cool off.

True, in Florida I envied my friends whose divorced parents provided an excuse to spend the summer with dad in Ohio or wherever, but it was a little easier than Houston.

[soldierant]

127. I know that clammy feeling well.

While in service I was stationed in Okinawa for 21 months - during which I never for an instant felt dry. But it was only hot part of the time - if the temperature dipped below 70F, it was so cold that a mid-calf faux fur coat was not warm enough. Equally clammy, just cold clammy. Any kind of humidity is a deal breaker for me.

[Disaffected]

139. Tell me.

I think the thing I disliked most was the almost instant sweating when outside and overwhelming need to get to somewhere cooler and dryer.

I still remember vividly getting off the plane in Houston. In those days there were no enclosed ramps and one instantly stepped out of the plane's door into the surroundings. I was mystified at first as there was the smell of jet fuel in the air and it was so hot and humid I literally though we must have been standing in the exhaust backwash of a nearby jet engine. I then realized to my amazement that wasn't the case and it was simply the ambient atmosphere.

[Dave Bowman]

101. Yes, it's called The swampy flying roach.

[Lochloosa]

134. It's called a Palmetto Bug and we don't consider them roaches even though they are. They do fly.

.webp

[claudette]

156. LOL!

If not, it should be !

[misanthrope]

110. Imagine Florida's weather and climate but with

Alabama's politics and culture. That is Baldwin and Mobile counties for you.

[Rebl2]

20. Same here-never move to FL

Missouri is bad politically, but not quite as bad as FL-yet. I don’t mind the cold. This past winter we hardly had any snow in my area-actually had more rain. Very unusual.

[mahina]

26. It will be pretty great when Mr. Kunz defeats Josh Hawley

[Rebl2]

27. I wish/hope

[chowder66]

45. +1

I'm from KCMO but live in CA. My mom and a nephew still reside there so I'm hoping things change for the better, sooner rather than later.

[Rebl2]

61. Same here

I live in the KC area, but the way the state has been gerrymandered, rural areas get more say in who is elected to Congress, especially the Senate. Seems like KC and St. Louis, even though more liberal, get out voted when it comes to the national elections.

[UpInArms]

76. son lives in KC

we live in rural area two hours north ...

fighting the good fight everyday in everyway

stay strong ... the winds of change will come

[ShazzieB]

88. Gerrymandering doesn't affect the Senate.

It sounds awful there, and I'm sorry to hear it. But gerrymandering doesn't affect Senatorial races or any other races where everyone in the state is choosing from the same slate of candidates. It can sure as hell screw up the House (not to mention statehouses), though.

[Rebl2]

92. Yes

you are correct. I am thinking of the house.

[ShazzieB]

95. Ah, I see!

It's easy to do. Believe me, I know.

[markodochartaigh]

97. I understand your point that gerrymandering

doesn't affect state-wide or national races. However, I think that gerrymandering does have a suppressing effect on voter turnout, and that is a secondary effect on state-wide and national races. I think that anything which inhibits voter turnout affects all races, either in a primary (direct) manner or in a secondary (indirect) manner. And, as horrifying as it is, much of the US is pretty evenly split between a narrative of hateful fantasy and a narrative of truth and inclusion.

[lark]

28. One of these is wrong in most parts of FL.

FL does have a winter, especially north and central FL. This year in No. FL. we had 3 days of hard freeze, first in a very long time but it happened. We turn our air conditioner off in late Oct. and it comes on again in March. Yes, it's basically summer here from April - mid Oct. and the air conditioners are on. But hey, that's tons better than when I was young and we had no air conditioning at all - that was a nightmare!!! We were lower middle class and dad was very, very cheap. We didn't get air conditioning until I was 16 and doc wouldn't release mom from the hospital until dad put in the air conditioning. Hospital was more expensive, and dad did want mom to be comfortable, so he finally installed 2 room units. Heaven to us poor kids.

[PortTack]

31. Same! Give me the cold any day over the heat, humidity and fascism.

[KS Toronado]

40. We can dress to stay warm in cold weather

but when it comes to fighting the heat & humidity, being completely naked doesn't even help.

[chowder66]

47. Exactly!!

[claudette]

78. Yep!!

And in my area the snow and ice cleanup is SUPER efficient. I can’t handle high temps and humidity. I love the Fall. Eternal summers do NOT appeal to me!! 👎🤤

[PortTack]

147. Oh god forbid!! I'm too old to go naked without ppl screaming in horror!

[moreland01]

37. Humidity, heat, love bugs,

hurricane evacuations, alligators, snakes, not great bicycling, tourists, homeowners insurance, rust/corrosion, meth labs . . .I could go on all day.

That's why we sold our house in Cocoa Beach in 2002, moved to Colorado and never went back.

We were there for the hanging chads, the 9-11 terrorists flight schools, pervs on the beach in Daytona, etc. Florida was constantly in the national news for all of the craziness.

[bdamomma]

85. and

gators!!!

[claudette]

86. Yikes 😳

[Freethinker65]

13. OK?

[Butterflylady]

17. FYI......

Our winters here are changing. This past winter we had had 3 inches of snow. We had exactly 1 really cold spell with the temperature in the teens. So the weather is definitely getting warmer. So PA is definitely where I want to be.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

143. Air conditioning

Costs more than heating, in more ways that one. Install a wood or pellet stove, and your costs go down even more. You can also get by with keeping thermostats lower in winter in the north than you can with setting an AC thermostat higher in the South. You can always put on more clothes and get under a blanket up north if you're cold inside. You can take off only so many clothes if you leave your house in the summer.

Whenever I've been in the South during summer, the AC was running constantly, even with a thermostat set to 85. Only at night did it start running less often. And even then... I was in Texas that awful summer of 2008 or 2009--whichever summer it was that was so bad that they were praying for rain. It was 95-98 outside at 7 pm, nearly every day we were there. I know because I was giving my mother's neighbor a lift to her job every day at that time while her car was in the shop. Her AC died because it literally ran itself to death. I think our AC finally turned off for a bit at around, oh, 3 am., which is when I left to get that woman from her job.

Give me cold, anytime. I can deal with that, but anyplace that has nights running at 85 at midnight is F F'n N-O no for me.

[JanMichael]

159. State income tax was one of the reasons?

Sounds like all of the recently retired conservative leaning Dems that move right over the border to South Carolina from Charlotte so they can still enjoy Charlotte without paying NC state taxes.

[Marius25]

173. Florida not having a state income tax is meaningless

Insurance costs way way more than income tax in blue states. Florida is now the most unaffordable state in America. And Florida has other taxes that are regressive on the non-rich.

Crappy roads? Florida just passed a law to pave their roads with radioactive material.

Don't AC costs in Florida offset heating costs in the North?

You're also ignoring the impact of climate change. Florida will be the first state to collapse from it.

[Mysterian]

11. I've lived in Pittsburgh and love that city

I might move back there someday.

[claudette]

14. I was

born and raised in Philly and only left PA when I got married. Sorry but to me Florida is the deflated penis of America. 😁

[BlackSkimmer]

4. Florida will survive DeSantis just as it survives every other storm that passes through it.

If you love the state other than its politics, then it seems sad to leave because of this particular bad storm.

I hope Dems don't allow themselves to be chased out of anywhere because then the bullies win.

I loved living in Florida and still miss it.

[dameatball]

38. Exactly. Been here since 1955 except for a 12 year stint in Appalachia and 4 years in Indiana back

in the 70's. I do not believe that the Nazi-wannabees will go away during my lifetime, but I am not leaving my kids and grandkids any more.

[BlackSkimmer]

46. I may still come back, but at this point I'm not sure.

I left because of my parents' failing health, and I've been back in NC for 10 some years now.

I love NC as well, but I so miss being on the water. I miss a lot about Florida, and it's actually hotter here in the summer than it was when I lived in the Keys! I don't miss the hurricanes.

Though I don't live there anymore, I will still defend Florida against the regional attacks we see here so often. Doesn't bother me when people attack politicians, but leave the state itself and its people out of it.

Glad you're staying.

[dameatball]

54. Like the old commercial said, "We'll leave the light on!"

[BlackSkimmer]

66. Keep a cold one in the fridge!

[NJCher]

87. the only people I saw attacked

were republicans like DeSantis.

And the criticism was directed toward the climate, bugs, humidity--specific aspects of the state, not the entire state.

[In It to Win It]

52. Truer words, my friend, truer words...

If you love the state other than its politics, then it seems sad to leave because of this particular bad storm.

[Cyrano]

72. DeSantis is just the latest wannabee. The real question is, "Will FL survive Republican fascism?"

[claudette]

5. It's wonderful

out here in western New York. Cold winters but a bustling economy. You’re welcome to come.

[edhopper]

7. I hear you

depends how bad it will get.
It was tough for my Grandparents to leave Germany in 1936.

[BlackSkimmer]

48. Comparing Florida to Nazi Germany is just hyperbole.

People are minimizing what happened in Germany when they use this kind of exaggeration. My parents were great friends with a woman who survived Auschwitz as a child, she only recently died, and she would go absolutely ballistic if she heard such comparisons as I've seen here lately.

This upcoming week there are numerous gay pride events all over Florida; there are black fraternity events coming this summer. The chairman of the NAACP lives in Florida, and I don't think has any plans of leaving anytime soon.

Come on now.

[Marius25]

55. The problem with your post is you're trying to think of 1940s Germany

instead of 1930 Germany.

The first things Hitler and the Nazis did was raid and shut down the Institute of Sexual research in Berlin that had done years of study on LGBTQ issues, especially transgender care. Then they banned all books related to LGBTQ research and any mention of LGBTQ people. Then Nazis shut down gay events, clubs, bars, etc. Then they changed the education system to align with Nazi ideology.

All of this is happening in Florida right now.

[BlackSkimmer]

65. No, I'm not.

I'm very well acquainted with the years leading up to the war. My parents lived under the bombs from that war.

Florida is NOT shutting down gay events. Feel free to google for yourself.

Gay events take place across Florida throughout the year.

[Marius25]

70. Numerous gay pride events have already canceled because of fear over the new laws

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4016205-florida-pride-events-canceled-in-wake-of-new-laws-unsafe-climate/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/pride-event-florida-cancelled-lgbtq-desantis-b2343826.html

Pride events cancelled across Florida due to ‘climate of fear’ after DeSantis’s anti-LGBT+ laws

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

59. You might be surprised to learn how man actual Nazis live in North Florida

[BlackSkimmer]

67. I wouldn't be surprised to learn how many "actual Nazis" live in any state.

I've seen the marches in many states.

I never saw one in Florida.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

69. I have lived in a lot of States

Yeah...I had close contact with one group late one night in Lake City....but I think you would probably be surprised to find out.....who do you think DeFascist is playing to?

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/us-world/2021-03-12/florida-is-home-to-second-most-hate-groups-in-the-u-s-a-former-member-explain-why

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1158344050/florida-far-right-extremism-politics-desantis

https://www.axios.com/local/tampa-bay/2022/09/20/florida-extremism-white-supremacy

Far-right groups find that Florida provides fertile ground — and a national stage

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article258184518.html#storylink=cpy

https://news.wjct.org/show/florida-roundup/2022-02-04/hotbed-for-hate-groups-voting-laws


A new report released by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) reveals a 71 percent increase in extremist-related incidents in Florida between 2020 and 2021.

and please take a look at the graph for this increase here

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/hate-sunshine-state-extremism-antisemitism-florida-2020-2022

Hate In The Sunshine State
https://www.floridatrend.com/print/article/10682

Florida Neo-Nazis Find Anti-Drag Mania Is a Recruitment Tool
https://www.advocate.com/news/neo-nazis-florida-drag

https://www.jewishpresspinellas.com/articles/adl-florida-hotbed-for-extremist-groups/

[carpetbagger]

120. I lived in Gainesville FL when Unite the Right had their Charlottesville follow-up rally

It was a bust, but it did feature real Nazis.

[diva77]

124. The changes are in small increments so you don't really notice. Then they reach a tipping point.

[Pacifist Patriot]

165. Search for "nazi allies in Florida" online.

We have them too.

[Cyrano]

75. So you really believe "IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE?"

In Germany of the 1930's, gays, Communists, Gypsies, the disabled, Jews, and so, so many others didn't believe it either. After all, Germany in that era was an advanced country that believed in science, the arts, and might well have become a cultural world leader. That's what most knowledgeable, aware Germans believed back then.

Instead, a psychopathic madman came along and a large minority listened to him, believed him, and fell into line behind him. We know what came next.

Do you really believe It can't happen here?

C'mon. It can happen anywhere. We don't have any "magic" immunity to fascism.

And, as you know, most gays, Communists, Gypsies, the disabled, the Jews, and many millions of others died. Most of them in death camps. Do you really believe that "death camps" can't happen here? Do you really believe today's right-wing crazies wouldn't go that far? Really?

[Pacifist Patriot]

114. No

It fucking isn't.

[GoneOffShore]

130. It's happening - and your parent's friend would have agreed with the following:

"Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures'... must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing - each act is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow.


You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves, when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things your father could never have imagined."

From Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free, The Germans, 1933-45 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1955)

And she could have seen and drawn the parallels with what is happening in Florida right now.

[mitch96]

8. I have lived most of my life here in Florida. If I jumped where would I go?

Being retired, the money thing is important. I don't mind the heat and humidity in the summer but the swerley blowy things (hurricanes)get me upset.. At least you get a fair warning that they are coming, not like earthquakes and tornadoes. I thrive on sunshine.
Living in Florida is the opposite of living in colder climates. Up north in the winter you go from a heated home to a heated car to a heated job. Down here in the summer we go from a Air conditioned home to an Air conditioned car to a Air conditioned job.. A 180º flip. The winters down here are delicious and no A/C, hence the massive winter tourist trade. If you can afford it being a "snow bird". 6 mos south, 6 mos north is the way to go...
Hollywood Florida is a haven for French Canadians. The west coast of Florida has many people from the northern states in the mid west. Whole different vibe than So Florida where I use to live. Not as diverse though.. Going to Miami is like going to a different country! You hear French Canadian, Creole French, Spanish, Eastern European languages also.
The states that come close to Florida for financial stuff are New Hampshire (too cold in winter) Tennessee (too red) and Nevada which I have not done any research on.
So far none of the objectionable things Florida meat ball man has done have effected me.......yet.... What to do, what to do.
m

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

148. And from late spring into early fall up north

They get to turn off the heat and enjoy life. And no, we don't go from heated this to heated that during the winter. You can actually enjoy life outdoors in most places during a northern winter. Tobogganing, skiing/snowboarding, ice skating, hockey, hiking, hunting and fishing, playing basketball in the park, kids playing on swings and those climbing structures, taking a typical walk or run--we do all of that and more outdoors in the winter. Really!

Now the occasional blizzard can be a downer, you can't be out in that, but that usually doesn't happen often, or last long. No more often or longer than a hurricane where you are.

Once it gets hot in places like Florida or Texas, the outdoors is completely unbearable, for far too long. You have maybe--maybe--a two hour window in the morning to be outdoors without choking to death from the heat, but it's at some horrible hour like 5 am.

So you can get outside in the winter up north, most of the time, but the same is not true about the south in summer.

[mitch96]

149. "And no, we don't go from heated this to heated that during the winter."

When I lived up there years ago, that's what we did and it worked out fine.
Famous line... "HEY turn up the heat!"
If you like out door winter sports, go for it. I'm past that at my age... Geezer here.
Florida afforded me lots of out door Florida winter sports.. Sailing, Scuba, body surfing, wind surfing, fishing etc. I'm a warm weather kinda guy..
What ever floats ur boat..
m

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

153. I'm amost a geezer (61)

But I still enjoy a brisk walk. I still enjoy being outdoors on a cool day, enjoying a cuppa on my back deck.

I couldn't do either in FL or Texas. The heat would kill me. Literally. I start showing signs of heat exhaustion starting around the lower 30sC (90sF), and that's when I'm not moving around. If I tried to take a walk in that weather, I would be dead.

[Earth-shine]

9. I moved to Delray Beach five years ago.

DeSantis and MAGAts and their guns are not going to drive me out.

I also don't have any children. If I did, I might want to leave so they can get a decent education.

[BlackSkimmer]

49. ...

[Mysterian]

10. I hear ya

I'm in a deep red area and have thought about moving to Oregon or somewhere I'm not surrounded by gullible trump-loving idiots. But real estate prices right now are insane so I'm staying put and hoping prices come crashing down.

[erronis]

80. Careful with Oregon (and many other states). Only the coast is somewhat liberal.

The mid and eastern part of the state are very red, and even along the coast you'll find some big pockets of maggats. The Klamath Falls area seems to attract a lot of RW types.

[barbtries]

123. if you go to Oregon,

Bend might not be the place. I personally know several trump loving idiots. In fact most of them are members of my family.

Seems Bend is quite the magatown.

[Tree Lady]

137. Really? I heard it was turning blue

and had more dems than republicans last election. Its close though only 55% blue but climbing because of all the sports in the area. I live in Medford which is still red but I see signs we are getting more dems from the north. I have new neighbors from Eugene and while expensive not as bad as Ashland so we are starting to get the overflow from there.

[barbtries]

138. that's encouraging,

to know that even the red spaces are turning blue. admittedly all i know is my own experience, and I've never been there. the people i know who are there are foxbot magats. at least they were the last i heard which was a long time ago. over a year anyway

[Tree Lady]

142. I know some dems that live there

my city is the retiree city of Oregon so we get lots of people from all over but from the blue bigger cities too. We have a thriving co op here and farmers market which tends to mean more dems.

[obamanut2012]

16. My wife and I left good State jobs and moved 3k away to California

Best decision we ever made, as hard as some of it was. We were lucky to get good State jobs here, too.

[Mister Ed]

18. While you remain there, I'll remain grateful to you for being there.

We're in a war, albeit a cold war. I have a comfortable duty, far behind the front lines. I admire and respect those who are serving in the war zone.

[Cyrano]

21. Hard to fight back when Republicans control all the levers of power

I live in a deep blue area, but gerrymandering has given me a Republican congressperson.

[walkingman]

19. I'm a Texan and I feel the same way - it's not possible for my family

we are trying our best to survive the insanity.

[lark]

23. I understand.

It's kind of scary here now, but it is other places too, so I wish you the best of luck in finding a blue, compatible community to move to.

Everyone has their own comfort zone. I live in Duval, which is a blue/purple town and am so happy we elected a Democratic woman to be our mayor! However, I know there are lots of magats, boogaloo bois, here. But I live in a quiet old development which is an old growth oak forest and it's been very peaceful here. We own our house and have a nice 1/3 acre space so it's very comfortable and most of all, we have FAMILY here. My sister, daughter and son all live in Jax. I don't want to leave them and praying I won't have to.
If there's a civil war, I would try to leave if my friend in CA still has her land.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

24. We should start a Project to begin helping people abandon Florida.. Refugees...

Give the Refugees Asylum in Blue States....

Let the Goobers in North Florida and Floribama have it. At least make a Website about it with a video of Bugs Bunny sawing off Florida to troll them

[FakeNoose]

29. I totally agree and I think it would be successful

Not for the sake of revenge against Repuke Governors, but to help people realize that they really do have a choice. There really are good reasons that Americans choose to live in Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, the Midwest and the upper Midwest states. States and regions should hire their own public relations firms to develop a campaign and make their pitch those who want to leave Florida, Texas, Arizona and elsewhere. The main concern isn't always politics, but a spotlight on jobs, living costs, lifestyle, culture and safety issues should be uppermost.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

33. These states should start Asylum Programs.....

To help them relocate and fill currently open jobs.....give them the job and temporary housing and a stipend to pay for moving expenses...

I mean if things go "South" (pun intended) there will be a major migration....its not like that never happened before.

[tinrobot]

51. That's exactly what they want. Let's be careful about playing into that.

Florida is still a very close state, despite the reports.

The GOP's most consistent base (i.e. old people) is dying off. They're losing their grip on power. Making the state so awful for liberals is part of the plan - they are targeting them on purpose. If they can get them to leave (or avoid moving there) then they cling to power that much longer.

I think we should flood the state with liberals and take it all back.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

58. I LOVED Florida for DECADES.... I moved to and then married a Floridian

And had the privilege to live in every part of it (he built powerlines and I lived in a travel trailer) .....believe me...I am not saying this without regret. But if you think there aren't any youth there that don't agree with them...you have another think coming. This is the Rending of Garments and Gnashing of Teeth portion of the White Majority going away....and this will continue until it is over. I know all about what ahem "groups" find North Florida a haven....

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2021/1222/FBI-informant-describes-life-undercover-with-the-KKK-in-Florida

I warned people in my current Blue State about the infancy of the MAGA in South Carolina (where half of my own family is from) DURING THE BUSH YEARS.....and they laughed and thought I was exaggerating then....They ain't laughing anymore.....

We cannot just put on a brave face and pretend what is at risk here is not a real possibility. One bad election and that fire is lit. Yes we outnumber them as a whole.....but not by that much...

[Mariana]

102. On what basis do you say that Florida is a very close state?

In 2022, 58% of Florida votes for Representatives were for Republicans, and less than 40% for Democrats. Those are percentages of the statewide total of votes for these seats, and therefore unaffected by gerrymandering. Marco Rubio likewise got nearly 58% of the votes for Senator. De Santis got more than 59%. None of this indicates that "Florida is still a very close state".

[madville]

161. Been hearing that for 40 years here

“The old people are dying off”

They’re living longer than ever and more are moving here everyday. There are years-long waiting lists in the retirement communities and they can’t expand fast enough.

COVID completely flipped this state in just a couple of years. We went from 50/50 politically to 60/40 Republican in the blink of an eye between 2020-2022, it’s not coming back anytime soon.

[Fiendish Thingy]

25. If California is out of reach, consider the PNW

Despite what the MSM says, Portland OR is a fine city, and Bellingham in WA is lovely.

Good luck in your relocation!

[Hugh_Lebowski]

30. Other than the wingnuts Arizona ain't too bad

All times but the summer, the weather is pretty awesome. There's stuff to do. Other than rush hour, traffic is pretty mild. Lots of parking. State taxes reasonable. We have a Dem governor and SoS.

C'mon down!

Of course, where I really wanna live is Orinda, CA (about 20 mins east of SF). I was there this last weekend, driving my lady around who's from AZ, showing her my old stomping grounds (lived in Orinda from 1976-1979 as a kid).

Freaking love that town, man. Costs a fortune to live there, but a man can dream, right?

Stopped at "Lake" Cascade (a glorified pond at the Orinda Country Club) to kill a few mins. This was the view in front of the bench we were on ... there were buncha ducks napping about 15 feet away on the hillside below us ...



This was the view of the houses behind us overlooking the 'lake' ... one on the right is probably built in the 1930's or so.



I gotta rep the East Bay in any sort of post about 'where should I live', y'all understand I hope

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

34. Its the Wingnuts they are trying to avoid...

[Hugh_Lebowski]

43. Well, at least we have Katie Hobbs not DeSantis :)

Even here in wingnut hell (Mesa, AZ) I can generally avoid the idiots pretty easily.

Just sayin'

[AZ8theist]

111. Hugh, you know there are Dems here in Mesa....

..besides you and me, there are tens of us....

[Lady Freedom Returns]

81. Pima County Arizona home of the city of Tucson

Pima County is a long time blue county. Someone told me once that we are the Jedi and rebbels to Maricopa County and the city of Phoenix Sith lords and empire.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

83. Oh there are some Blue Areas in Florida too

You do not seem to understand how quickly things can go South...there are even a couple of Blue areas in South Carolina.....And North Carolina WAS once seen as very blue....but look what has happened there...they turned THAT into South Carolina now..

see also Florida.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

94. For us it's the Southern half of state that's blue.

The ideas and ideals of the democratic party has been enforced, believe it or not, by the Sonoran desert itself.

You must coexist, take care of each other and the environment to survive.

These lessons were taught to the Navajo and Apache long ago. Yes they fought many times for the land but the desert still made them learn to coexist.

The Spanish came and had to learn these laws the hard way to. Any and all that came here must follow the rules of the desert or suffer.

During lockdown the desert was sending us reminders that we had to adapt and take care of each other because it was ready to take back what it has allowed us to have.

To this day we have people come in bringing their silly notions that their race and ideas are greater than the law of the desert. But the Sonoran puts them and their descendent in line with the law.

When I first came to Tucson I met some older members of the Tohono Oʼodham tribe. They told me stories about the law and how we all must follow it to survive.

Then and there I knew I found home.

This land is definitely not for everyone. But if you can live with the law of the desert, you can thrive. That's the prime reason Southern Arizona is blue and the north is red.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

93. Meanwhile...

Arizona GOP holds QAnon hearings attempting to expose so-called COVID-19 'atrocities': report


https://www.rawstory.com/arizona-gop-holds-qanon-hearings-attempting-to-expose-so-called-19-atrocities-report-2660617577/

[Lady Freedom Returns]

96. That's the difference between Tucson and Phoenix.

While Phoenix and Maricopa County are so into QuackAnon, Tucson and Pima County has been fighting to preserve a woman's right to choose.

The map says we're something like 200 miles away from each other, but in thinking we are worlds apart.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

99. That's pretty much what it was like in NC before.....

and look what happened.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

105. There is something that divides and rules over us that NC doesn't have

We down here know we must bend to the law of the desert itself to survive. Those that have come to the Tucson area got to see the reminders of the law first hand during the lockdown and the wildfire of 2020 that came to the edge of the city itself.

Maricopa County and Phoenix have this idea that they are above the nature law and that is why they are always in dire straights. They try to hide the fact that they are, but it is becoming harder and harder to hide.

We are known as the Old Pueblo for a reason. The people who settled here originally and those who live here now have had to learn to coexist and take care of the environment around us to survive. Those who can't ends up moving north to Maricopa thinking being there gives them some edge.

It doesn't.

It's a never ending struggle to fight with those that come here with their conservative, strong than the desert ideas. But we know we have to or the desert will get us all.

[Chainfire]

32. My family have been in Florida for 125 years. I hope that one day, the Republicans

will cross that proverbial "bridge too far," and that the voters will come to their senses and get rid of the Fascists.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

35. Sigh...as someone who has family from either side of the Mason Dixon

I do not see that happening....they are not "sensible" people.

[onethatcares]

106. I do believe

I'm going to start asking people why they are here or why they're wanting to re-locate to here. I'm in St Petersburg with the water no more than 7 miles away in any direction.

We moved here because of that and the warmth, September 29, 1977. Now it's a lot different

[Cyrano]

107. Change is inevitable. But whoever thought we'd

be where we are now?

Perhaps the beginning of this path to insanity was when five Supreme Court criminals overruled the voters of Florida in 2000 and appointed George W. Bush to the presidency. I guess after that, anything was possible. And a truly horrible "anything" has come into being.

[malaise]

36. DeSaster will leave before you

He will soon crash and burn like Elon’s rocket and his campaign.

[obamanut2012]

44. Nah, he will get his Leg and hand-picked SCOFL to let him stay Gov

term limits will be POOFED.

For him.

[malaise]

50. Nah - the Disney disaster and the 2023 hurricane season

will finish him off

[Celerity]

98. sorry sis, disagree. MAGAts are moving into the state at a frightful rate

If a person is LGBTQ or has LGBTQ children, they should get the hell out, IMHO

it is likely only going to get worse

[Mariana]

104. Florida is the biggest MAGAt magnet in the country by far.

There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking going on, with people imagining that Florida is still a purple state. No, it is not, and there's no chance it will be in the foreseeable future.

[Mariana]

103. Yes, but who's going to replace him?

De Santis's policies are awfully popular in Florida. Retired MAGAts are flocking there from all over the country because they like what he's doing there, and they're skewing the vote even more toward the extreme right wing Pukes. If De Santis does crash and burn, there's no reason to suppose the next one will be any better.

[madville]

160. We'll probably get Ashley Moody

As the next Governor, if Desantis serves his full term of course.

[Tommy Carcetti]

39. To paraphrase the character Michael Bolton from the movie Office Space:

Why should I be the one who's forced to leave?

They're the ones who suck.

[hay rick]

41. I feel you.

[chowder66]

42. They wear the hats, wave their kind of flags and signs, so that they can identify

the rest of us as not being "...a specific type of white, Christian".

[Fla Dem]

56. Mixed emotions about leaving FLorida.

I came here from Massachusetts and Pennsylvania 23 years ago. I retired early and had friends and family living in FL so decided to move south. At the time Bill Nelson and Bob Graham, both Democrats were the Senators.

Florida had Democratic Governors since 1877, the last one being Lawton Chiles (1991-1998) who died in office and Kenneth MacKay who was the Lt Gov assumed the position to complete Gov Childes term.

Then it was all downhill.
It began with Jeb Bush in 1999-2007
Charlie Crist in 2007-2011 (who later switched to Dem to run for congress)
Rick Scott 2011-2019 I didn't think anyone could be a more corrupt or terrible human being until......
Ron DeSantis 2019 - present. The Devil incarnate, a despicable human being.

In the 23 years I've been here the political climate has done a 180° turn. It was gradual at first, but in the last 10 years Rick Scott was like gasoline on a fire and then DeSantis has just kept adding fuel to the fire.

It's tough living in an environment where your county voted 63% to 36% for Trump over Biden.

So have been weighing my options.

[Oppaloopa]

57. Me either

If anyone is from Pennsylvania and knows of a cheap apt or home for sale Please let me know. I am 73 and do not want to die in this horrible state. All my friends are in Pennsylvania never met many down here

[Marthe48]

60. My grandmother's family settled in western NY

Her mother moved to N.E. Ohio, and then Cleveland. I have a letter from her NY cousin, who asks, "How are things out West?" My grandmother and her cousin were close. My grandmother lived with the cousin's family for at least 2 years,, either while my great-grandmother worked and got on her feet. After the cousins were adults, they didn't get to see much of each other, because of distance. My grandmother never learned to drive, and she was widowed young. I don't think her cousin drove. She and her husband owned a farm, so it was probably hard to get away. I remember one visit to NY when I was young, and I remember one or 2 visits, that might have just been the cousin's adult children. I remember that if my grandmother called her cousin, she had to call the operator, tell her the number, hang up and wait for the operato rto call back saying there was a connection. That was early 1950s. Wow.

All this to say that travel and communication is a lot easier now than it was even 10 years ago. If you happen to move, research where you want to go. If you are part of any organizations, or have professional, military, or hobby connections, see if the places you would like to move have those organizations in place. They could help you make new friends, and feel like you are connected a little faster. If you move, make sure you have all of the current contact information for people and businesses you want to stay in touch with. You can use Facebook, LinkedIn and so many others to stay in touch. I have friends who retired and moved far away, and we stay in touch on fb. I know people all over the world, and we use fb. I am not a social butterfly, so the online contact is enough to satisfy my human connections. But maybe not for you. I have friends who have grandkids on the other side of the country, and they travel frequently to see the grandkids. Mine are 10 minutes away, and I'm grateful.

I have thought about moving because Ohio has turned into a butthole state. But most of my friends wouldn't move, so if I did move, I'd still worry about their mental and physical health. So I'll stay and keep supporting Dems and undermining r's, to the best of my ability. I wish you good luck in making a decision, and hope you have a safe landing.

[we can do it]

115. Moved out of Akron area in 2016, still working election protection for Ohio.

Friends and family still there, but my psyche couldn’t take the buybull thumping anti LGBTQ hatred any longer.

[Hope22]

62. It's hard to know where to go.

How many states are solid stable. I feel like my next move will be in a travel trailer because I don’t think I could survive another Ohio experience!

[peace frog]

63. I've lived in Florida my entire life

but as soon as spouse retires, we're getting out. I'm reluctant to leave but this is no longer a place I can call home.
We will leave behind most of our family, friends, memories over the course of our lifetime. But we will not live in a fascist state.

[TeamProg]

64. "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence." Wherever one thinks they want to

live, study up!


Weather, water, costs, social services, growth patterns, etc.

If you can afford to, go rent for a few months before deciding to move permanently.


I lived on the Calif. foggy coast for 27 years.. I very much prefer the sunny Sierra mtns near Yosmite, still after 10 years, even though it can get hot for a couple of months. The summer nights always cool way down. Lots of space, Space, SPACE! And still relatively cheap to buy.


The 59 - 60% Red to 40-42% Blue is tolerable.

[GoCubsGo]

68. I know how this feels.

I live in South Carolina, and I fucking hate it here. It's headed in the same direction Floriduh is headed. I could move in with family in another state, but that requires fixing up my paid-for house, putting it on the market and paying for a move. I don't have that kind of money. Not to mention that I have lived alone for most of my adult life, and I prefer it that way, but if I moved, I couldn't afford that elsewhereI love my sisters, but I'd probably wind up killing one or both of them if I had to move in with either of them. Not to mention that I'd have to start from scratch in the "friends nearby" thing, which is never easy, especially at my age. Every time I see a post here telling those of us in "red" states that we should just pick up and move, I have to bite my tongue, lest I get the boot for saying what I really think.

[NowISeetheLight]

74. Moved to CA

I left SC a couple years ago and moved to CA. I hate the taxes and prices here but I am so much happier mentally. I got married finally to a lifelong friend and I even fly a rainbow flag on my house sometimes. Our new 55+ community has 700+ homes and a ton of other LGBT people. BBQs and other events and everyone is so friendly. I have neighbors who are Jewish, African-American, Sikh, you name it, and we all stop and talk to each other and are friends. It's so liberating. We've got a few nutcases here and there but it seems most of them are "invisible". Just like they expected me to be "invisible" being gay in SC.

I compare it to SC where I remember how segregated everything was. All the rednecks with their pickup trucks with giant confederate flags flying in the back. Moving there from AZ was a real eye-opener and I couldn't wait to get back to the desert. Of course AZ is totally crazy now too.

[GoCubsGo]

77. My family is in AZ, so that's where I'd wind up.

I like it there, and love the desert, but yeah. It's cray-cray. But, it always has been. It's still better than here, though. At least they have the likes of Katie Hobbs and Mark Kelly. And, good Mexican food. And, they don't have stupid laws related to things like buying alcohol.

[MineralMan]

71. It's never easy to make a major move.

Never has been. However, sometimes, there is is need to do just that.

Always, a move means many changes. But, change for the better is a good thing.

Don't fear moving. Plan, instead. That will make things much easier, once you actually do move.

[llmart]

108. +1

I've had to move three different times due to corporate relocations. Three different states. When I was very young with elementary aged children I can remember being so afraid to move away from my entire family and lifelong friends. I made all the excuses some of the posters on here are making. I worried needlessly about if my children would "adjust". Went from the north to the south - an entirely different culture. I'd never even travelled much at that time. Looking back I laugh at my younger self and how sheltered my life was until that first move from one state to another.

Yes, it can be stressful but I always went into it with the idea that I had to show my kids how to be flexible and how to handle change. They both did amazingly well. I worried for nothing. They are middle aged now and both of them have told me many times how glad they were that they lived in different places - that they learned how to make new friends, try new things, travelled places they wouldn't have if we would have stayed put.

Once you get to be our age you can look back and see that being flexible and able to handle major change will do you well when you approach your senior years.

[MineralMan]

112. Exactly.

[Pacifist Patriot]

167. That's what I am doing. If all goes to plan I should be out of FL

by next spring.

[MineralMan]

176. Good plan.

[Cyrano]

82. Many here responded to the OP by focusing on Florida heat, humidity, hurricanes, bugs, etc.

Just to be clear, the point of this post was none of that. It was about escaping a place in which individual freedom is becoming meaningless. Where cruelty is now the norm. And where fascists want to turn us all into their property. (Umm, that's called slavery.)

Please pay attention to what's happening here. The fascists who call themselves the Republican Party are well down the road to destroying our Constitution, our freedoms, and America. Florida is nothing more than a testing lab for their depravity.

Think "It Can't Happen Here?" Well, it's happening. And it's up to the majority of the sane among us to, once again, put an end to American fascism.

[Pacifist Patriot]

116. Exactly!

I have been fighting the Republican surge in Florida since 2000. I am exhausted. The pace of authoritarian decline accelerated exponentially since Jeb. On steroids with RD. I cannot get out fast enough.

I think my husband is starting to grasp my despair, but I feel like I am losing my damn mind. If the US goes the way of Florida we are all thoroughly fucked.

[AmBlue]

84. With you

Last edited Fri May 26, 2023, 05:27 AM - Edit history (1)

As a 3rd generation Floridian whose grandparents were pioneers in Dade County during Prohibition and earlier, I cannot find words strong enough to express my sorrow, disgust, and utter frustration at the state of our beautiful state. We have recently had anti-semetic flyers appearing in our own neighborhood's little yard library boxes!! Meanwhile, the fealty to racist, misogynist, anti-education, hateful political discourse in this state, and by neighbors on my own street, makes me feel-- for the first time in my 64 years-- unwelcome in my own state.

Staying and fighting appears more futile by the day, but I absolutely hate to give the bastards what they want by leaving. But it's definitely on the table. Exploring all options.

[Saoirse9]

89. Same boat

I love my town. I love the warm winters. I love my family even the trumpers.

I retire soon.

God I really don't know what to do.

[Kaleva]

91. About 3 million people move interstate each year

https://www.shyftmoving.com/blog/moving-industry-statistics#:~:text=15.3%20million%20households%20in%20America,moving%20trucks%20in%20the%20US.

[Pacifist Patriot]

117. And?

[Kaleva]

145. Shows that it can be done

[Pacifist Patriot]

158. Shows that it can be done. Doesn't indicate how difficult it is.

Just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean an individual family has the wherewithal.

Outside of the financial costs and having a job that enables you to do it without budgetary stress, there are ties to the community, friends and family, in-state tuition, etc. that can make the transition even more onerous.

Sure, picking up and leaving can be done. But in many cases there are outrageous hurdles to jump. Posting how many people do it to someone expressing the angst of the OP seems a little callous to me.

[Kaleva]

163. Some do put more importance on connections...

then on fleeing a fascist state.

It's a matter of priorities.

"Sure, picking up and leaving can be done. But in many cases there are outrageous hurdles to jump. Posting how many people do it to someone expressing the angst of the OP seems a little callous to me."

One of my great grandfathers was sold to a well to do farmer when his father died as his mother couldn't support him or his other siblings who she also sold. After he worked enough years, he had to live in the barn with the animals, to earn his freedom, he saved his money and immigrated to the US where he became a successful businessman and made enough money to pay for for his brothers and sisters to come to the US.

Your "outrageous hurdles" are a minor inconvenience to others.

"On the high seas between Florida and Cuba, US immigration policy a matter of life and death"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/01/23/cubans-face-life-death-journey-u-s-immigration-policy-shifts/10994551002/

[Pacifist Patriot]

164. That's true, but ...

someone's greater pain doesn't mean someone else's pain isn't hurting them or that it shouldn't hurt.

I wouldn't tell someone suffering from pneumonia that they shouldn't express their misery because of my cancer diagnosis.

People in states like Florida, Texas, and others are legitimately scared for their loved ones and their future. We may not have to live in a barn, but the fear is very real.

[Kaleva]

171. I generally observe people's actions which I believe....

gives me a more accurate picture about how someone feels or thinks about an issue then listening to what they say would.

Actions should at least match the rhetoric.

Your comment:

"I wouldn't tell someone suffering from pneumonia that they shouldn't express their misery because of my cancer diagnosis."

If someone said they were suffering from pneumonia and they were laid up in bed or in the hospital, I'd take them seriously. I wouldn't take someone seriously who said they were very sick but they were going about their daily life like everything is normal.

Many people here give lip service to the dangers of climate change but that say little to nothing about what they are doing to prepare for what's coming. Thee are exceptions like one DUer who said she and her husband bought acreage in western NC for them and family to move to soon

[Pacifist Patriot]

179. Ok

[Lady Freedom Returns]

100. Well, my advice would be to do it before you end up doing it....

Last edited Fri May 26, 2023, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

With just a backpack with 3 changes of clothes and an extra pair of shoes in it.

Not the easiest way to leave a state, I can tell you that.

And remember, you have family right here on DU. You can't physically hug us or see us, but we're here.

[KT2000]

109. I live in a place

where most people are from other states. Just a few now are from pioneer families. Most are retirees and some skilled craftspeople. The community is growing and everyone has to eke out their own lifestyles. It is up to the person to reach out to others. I did it years ago and I felt like I was construction a new life using shovels, hammers, etc. Actually I reached out to theater groups to offer my services as a costumer. Made lots of friends and my new life blossomed. It is not always easy but I am so glad I did it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

113. I am on realtor.com daily

I have not had an uninterrupted night's sleep in months. It sounds hyperbolic, but I have been texting with a friend of mine whose ancestors fled the Nazis before it was too late. That is why he is here to flee from Florida.

DUers, this shit is real.

The chair of my county's Democratic party left the state a couple of weeks ago. There are countless examples of similar folks who fought the good fight for decades and don't feel safe anymore.

I never thought we would get to this point. I can't leave Florida soon enough.

[OhNo-Really]

119. I sure wood. If I had children in schools.

But wanting to and making it happen require a safe landing spot.

Florida might become refugees in need of help

[bahboo]

121. Lived in South Florida during the the wild and wooly 80's...

It was crazy, but just in a Florida way. Never dull. We were lookin at moving back….specifically Key West. It had always been a dream of ours, and we were finally in a place where we could make it happen. Then Covid happened. Then DeFuckstick. Just can’t see it now. So we happily stay in SoCal….and we can always visit for a couple weeks….

[barbtries]

122. i feel that.

I'm in NC but I'm from CA and you know I get more, not less, homesick as the years tick away. Now I'm getting old, my youngest son is here just married last year, plus money. I want to go home but I don't know if I can swing it there financially, then add to that the terrible irony of my son becoming a father and I'm all the way on the other side of the country. I missed my granddaughter's childhood, over 15 years of it, and will probably never have the closeness with her as I do with her 2 older brothers.

So I stay and wring my hands as republicans destroy the place. not that I don't do my part to fight them off, but it's uphill all the way.

[GoodRaisin]

129. I want to get out of NC too. I hate it here.

It’s so gerrymandered here now I think we’ve lost it. My wife and I came here from Virginia 35 years ago and raised our two sons here. We’re both retired and both sons can self employ anywhere they go. Growing up with me they all are democrats and we all hate NC. I think I could convince everyone to go back to Virginia with me except for one problem. My oldest son has joint custody of one of my granddaughters who is 10 years old. We’re not going anywhere without her, so I’m stuck.

It just ain’t that easy to pick up and go for so many people. 🤷‍♂️

[Mariana]

150. North Carolina is another big destination for MAGAt retirees.

That's not likely to change any time soon.

[ecstatic]

125. I hear you. Hell, it takes a lot of guts to move across town

I'm in Georgia and although I went to college in two different States before returning to Georgia, I'm less adventurous now. I tell myself to stop overthinking and set up shop somewhere new temporarily. I think the main issue though is time. Putting some serious thought and time into moving would move things along, probably for you too. Unfortunately, I have ADD.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

151. Georgia seems to be heading in a good direction

I'd stay put for now, to keep it headed that way.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

126. Those that came ( all my four grandparents too - Ellis Island)

Faced horrible things too. Hatred for the newest group especially.

People literally sold children because they were so destitute!!!

Every generation faced enormous challenges.

We do we.

[vercetti2021]

128. I'm in the same boat when it comes to Texas

But my girlfriend and I are actually looking to see if we can get out of here next year and possibly go to Washington State cuz we both have friends that live there

[tornado34jh]

131. I live in Lakeland

I swear, many people here, including where I work, are complaining about Joe Biden and the like. Sometimes I do think Florida is getting stupid. But as someone with autism, what options do I have? My parents are in rural Montana, my sister isn't planning to stay in Denver, at least that is what I heard when I last talked to her, my brother is in Panama City but will be heading to Monterey, California, my aunt has no plans to move again, and so forth. Also, I don't really have the financial means to relocate. I already had one time where my family thought I would move to Hawaii, but it wouldn't have worked anyway. I am certainly well aware of how messed up politically it is here. But again, the options I have won't be good, either because it is too expensive, or it is too rural that I won't be able to do much. Don't get me wrong, I like the thunderstorms here in Florida, but as much as I hate the political landscape here in Florida, there aren't really any good options for me. Next I suppose it will be a crime to criticize Desantis. Ironically, a lot of people who move to Florida are from up north, especially New York.

[DFW]

132. The last time I moved and felt uprooted, I was 23.

I remember very well. I was leaving a place I didn‘t like (Frank Rizzo‘s Philadelphia) and headed for a place where I knew almost no one. And even then, at least it was for a job I wanted, paid well, and promised a lot of travel. This was 1975, and I still work for the same outfit.

It was far more unsettling than moving here to Europe, where I still had my job, had my European wife to live with, and already knew lots of people. Plus, by the time I moved here, I spoke nine European languages. The paperwork and the bureaucracy were the obstacles, not uncertainty or unfamiliarity.

Anyone who tells you, „well, why don‘t you just move?“ probably has never had to delve into the issue in depth. No one who is established in the place they live, even if they want out, „just moves.“

[onethatcares]

133. the dilema seems to be for us anyway

where to move to with the same or close to same climate or closeness to the water. Georgia? See MTG, South Carolina? RWNJ in a smaller package, Louisiana? Floods/hurricanes/RWNJs? Alabama? RWNJs, Texas? Beginning to see the problem? North Carolina? Gerrymandering, religious RWNJs, Arizona? No beach access, New Mexico? definitely no beach access.

Toss in the educational systems of those states, the taxes applied to those citizens and the cost of living further north, you see the difficulty in transplanting one at the age of over 70?

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

152. Georgia is heading in the right direction, thanks to Atlanta.

MTG is one crazy up in one crazy pocket of GA. It's not the entire state.

Even California has nutbars in their Congressional representation--Kevin McCarthy, Darrell Issa, (until recently) Devin Nunes. NY has Santos and Stefanik. Don't go by what one rep in the state is. Go by what the overall state is doing.

Do your research, of course, but Georgia has a lot of hopeful signs, and much of the state is still affordable.

[Lochloosa]

135. I'm in the same boat Cyrano. I have one more reason for wanting to leave.

I was born in FL and lived here my entire life except for one 4 year stint in Albany, GA, and I'll never go back to that backwoods racist city. But that is another story.

My issue is the heat. Being a Floridian, I know how to live with the heat and humidity. It has never really bothered me till the last 3-4 years. The heat is just different now. It's getting hotter earlier in the day and staying that way till late at night. I don't really know how to explain it, other than it's like a weight pressing down on you.

In Florida, you learn to get up early for any outdoor activity and move to the shade in the afternoon. Have a cold ice tea and relax. It seems that now the heat comes on quicker and stays longer.

I live in N. FL and would grow tomatoes in the winter. Once the first freeze hits was my signal to cut them down and plant something that could take the cold. I haven't had to do that for over 4 years till last year when we had one freezing night.

And it's just going to get worse. I love Florida, but between the heat, Fascist and the population growth, what I loved has disappeared and I don't like what it has become.

[LakeArenal]

136. We auctioned everything we own and moved to Costa Rica sight unseen. Never a visit beforehand.

The Bush housing crisis sapped our retirement and we basically live SS checks to SS checks

The financial burden is there, but we wouldn’t want to live anywhere else

We left friends and family behind but our answer to that is: CostsRica is a fab place to visit.

Why would all the burden of friends and family be on you?

Find a dream place and make your dreams come true.

[ecstatic]

154. Sight unseen? How is it working out? nt

[LakeArenal]

155. It's our total dream come true.

Leaving US was an idea we got on House Hunters International.

Our COVID lock down was in paradise.

We did a lot of reading, questioning, and YouTube videos.

Researched other countries. Finally one quote in a book decided us.

Our family and most friends thought we are crazy. We decided we were going to do this ourselves. First time ever with no input or advice from family, friends or employers.

It was truly our decision. We wouldn’t change anything about moving here.

[Poiuyt]

157. What was the quote?

And do you need to speak Spanish to live there?

[LakeArenal]

162. No Spanish but it helps. We knew no Spanish and we are fine.

Okay a bit of background.

Mr Lake loves the idea of volcanoes
I love birds. CR as plenty of both.

Most books about living here focus on the Pacific or Gulf Coast beach communities.

But there was one chapter on living in central CR in the mountains.

The quote (after discussion of beach living):

“Or, perhaps, you would prefer an emerald green spot on the side of a mountain, overlooking a beautiful 22 mile lake with a view of an active volcano.”

I read it to Mr Lake and we knew this would be our spot, too. Since we planed for 12 years before we got here, unfortunately, the volcano is now dormant. But there is an active one about 30 miles away as the crow flies.

When we got here, it was exactly how we imagined it.

https://postimg.cc/TpGsYv89]


https://postimg.cc/VSVydG9N]



https://postimg.cc/MnwzSFt2


-4009-99fe-1e8b8ef799b9.jpg[/img

[Pacifist Patriot]

169. Lovely! That would be me. No need for a beach. Love mountains!

[Poiuyt]

180. Thanks!

[Marius25]

174. I watch House Hunters International all the time

My family and I want to leave the US too, but we want Europe and it's really hard to move there since I can't get a work visa.

[LakeArenal]

175. Can't get one here until you become a legal resident and three years.

[Pacifist Patriot]

168. Any properties on the market in your area?

In all seriousness, I would love to know more about how you did it. My husband, sister's family, and my parents are very interested in living abroad.

[LakeArenal]

172. Our best advice is know what you like not what you want.

For instance, if you don't like rain. Don’t pick a rain forest.

If you don’t like huge bugs, snakes or critters don’t move to a jungle. (ANTS are the enemy here. Not spiders or bugs)

Property is selling like hot cakes since COVID ended (sorta).

You can buy a house from $150,000 on up.

Then start reading on places you’ve heard about and liked. You tube videos are helpful.

You are different as we wanted NO input from anyone else. We didn’t want to compromise. We’ve been doing that all our lives and wanted no compromises.

Don’t fall for anyone’s opinions. Study and form your own opinions. We lost a couple friends who thought we became assholes for not listening to their negative comments.

[Pacifist Patriot]

177. Excellent advice, thanks! The only thing that would turn me off is snow.

[LakeArenal]

178. There's one mountain here that gets a bit of snow.

Otherwise most have no concept of snow.

We do have some bad landslides though.

[gulliver]

141. We need to get Florida back

What would we have to do to get more votes there? Leaving just gives us less votes, not to mention that's probably exactly what Republicans are aiming for in the first place. They pass these laws because they want some folks to depart.

[Mariana]

146. "What would we have to do to get more votes there?"

Democratic voting retiress could move there. It would have to be an awful lot to outnumber the MAGAt retirees that are flocking there in huge numbers every year.

[gulliver]

170. I would think about it, but there would be cost considerations

And alligators and boa constrictors.

[Pacifist Patriot]

166. That's a question active Dems in FL like myself have been struggling with for decades.

Some days it feels like the harder we fight, the redder it gets. No matter what we do, the next election cycle feels more horrific than the last.