Would you hand over a car you had just rented?

[yardwork]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the Citibike rental kerfuffle, in which a woman who was assigned a rental bike is being accused of being a racist Karen because she didn't allow a group of teens to take the bike she'd just rented.

If you're not familiar with the story, google it.

For people blaming the woman - who had just completed a 12-hour shift as a Physicians Assistant at Bellevue Hospital in NYC - I'm curious.

Would you hand over a car you'd just rented?

It seems to be an exact analogy.

I go to Hertz and rent a car. A kiosk gives me paperwork with the license plate of the exact car I've rented. There is no human clerk. I rented the car using an app. If I don't return it, I owe Hertz for the value of the car. I walk up to the car I've been assigned, in its numbered space, and a stranger is standing next to the car, saying it's really theirs. I say, nope, this is the car I was assigned by Hertz. I get in it. The stranger and their four buddies surround the car and prevent me from leaving. I'm startled, confused, scared. I ask them to back off and leave me alone.

They start filming me. They upload the video to the internet and accuse me of being a racist Karen.

Would you hand over the car to the stranger?

[Drum]

1. This topic needs its own forum. n/t

[Effete Snob]

2. Depends

I'd do whatever gets me the most cash on GoFundMe.

[yardwork]

3. Really. This is a true scenario that happened to a human being.

She had a GoFundMe because her employer suspended her and she may lose her job due to being demonized on social media. She's had to hire an employment attorney. She's pregnant and is going to need health insurance for labor and delivery, which she'll lose if she's fired.

[Effete Snob]

4. I'm well aware that

The economically rational decision remains the one with the bigger bottom line.

If you read DU in addition to posting to it, you'd see that I was already in the thread about the gofundme.

[obamanut2012]

5. Watch out, Yardie

You will be catcalled about this.

I use the Lime bikes where I live, and you are 100% right.

So much misogynistic and other bigoted language against the woman.

[yardwork]

7. The sneering has begun already.

Really deep-seated hatred for women being exposed in the reactions to this story.

The fact that she's pregnant seems to be ramping up the meanness.

No wonder Trump got elected in 2016. But we already knew why.

[obamanut2012]

8. Really deep-seated hatred for women being exposed in the reactions to this story.

Yup, I SAID this would happen when that Karen garbage started a few years ago, and it didn't take long for it to start.

The mocking about her wanting to protect her fetus is shocking. I mean, I keep basically being called a racist, and your thread is the only one I will comment in anymore.

Just liek how soooo many DUers loooove using gendered slurs against RW women. They ervel in it.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

10. I still recall getting a ration of shit for defending Central Park Karen's actions back in the day

She didn't know the guy was going to turn out to be the Saint-like founder of the Audubon Society or whatever (okay I know he's not that, but along those lines). But he did make her feel like he was going to take her dog away, right then and there. She seemed legit terrified and was acting on that fear with what she said to the guy and the way she tried to contain her dog. He forgave her entirely and admitted he should've handled things differently, but she's the one who paid the price

It's always interesting for me to watch the way things 'go down' on DU when our two most favorite groups (women and black people) come into conflict in these ways.

[yardwork]

12. This situation is quite different from the Central Park incident.

The media were very wrong to say that these teens were endangered in this instance. There were lots of witnesses. There were five of them - young men - and one small woman. She yelled for help because a man had his hands on her bike and was trying to push her off. She didn't call the police. I doubt she was thinking about their race.

The Central Park woman was wrong to call 911 and claim that a Black man was threatening her.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

13. Yeah, and this is why these things are interesting to me ...

She may've been 'wrong' in retrospect, but the guy was being a dick, and threatening. I watched it and believed she was acting out of legitimate terror in the situation, and made a bad decision that looked a lot worse in retrospect, esp. when it was discovered he was very respected person. But she didn't know it, and he admitted his wrongdoing in the aftermath, and forgave her. As he should've.

So yes they're 'different' but the same arguments were made back then ... she was 'endangering him' because the cops always show up and blow away all the black people when a white person feels threatened ... are some of the same I'm seeing on this topic.

[pinkstarburst]

48. I actually agree with you on the central park thing

She should not have called the police, but I do not find Christian Cooper to be 100% perfect in his actions that day either.

He was acting as hall monitor to enforce park rules, something he felt completely comfortable throwing his weight around doing as a large man over six feet against a small woman because her dog was off the leash. Want to know how many times I have been to the park and seen men with their pit bulls off the leash, or men doing drugs? Want to know how many times I as a woman have confronted men and ordered them to get those pit bulls on a leash or put those drugs away and started filming? Never, of course. I don't have a death wish. And petite Amy Cooper never would have confronted large Christian Cooper had it been HIS dog off the leash. But Christian Cooper felt just fine confronting and intimidating a small woman alone in the woods, luring her dog away and saying "I'm going to do what I'm going to do and you're not going to like it."

And that, my friends, is MALE PRIVILEGE.

[BlackSkimmer]

19. Yes, we are seeing true bigotry, and YES misogyny, in some of these threads.

I've used Lime and Citibikes, and so many people are making assumptions that show they have not the faintest clue what they're talking about.

It's quite amusing, but immensely annoying.

[debm55]

38. So true.

[Srkdqltr]

6. Like I said to the other story: shoot them all, take their phones snd cameras, dump them in the

River/lake/pond and drive away.

[Effete Snob]

9. I'm hanging out with you this weekend

[Takket]

11. I think she did call the police, but they hadn't arrived yet.

KIDDING

I’m just kidding.

[IronLionZion]

15. You're guilty of climate change and polluting waterways. Bikes are better than driving

[BlackSkimmer]

20. Bwahaha!

I wish I could rec your posts in this thread!

[XanaDUer2]

14. Would they call for help if they're surrounded?

Felt afraid? I would probably give them the car. I would beep the horn and/or yell for help. I had a scary incident in an alley once, and I cried. I'd love to know what keyboard warriors here would do if they felt threatened.

[IronLionZion]

16. Both sides can settle this fairly by giving me money on GoFundMe

One of the best things about being me is I get it from both sides. Conservatives call me a bleeding heart libtard. Liberals who don't have shootings in their neighborhoods call me a racist bootlicker. That's how I know I've balanced my karma with the universe.

Happy Friday, Long Weekend, and 4:20 ya'll

[BlackSkimmer]

17. What is annoying to me (amongst other things) is that people who

have obviously NEVER used a Citibike service make comments that show they have absolutely NO idea what they're talking about, and therefore have a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue.

K and r.

[XanaDUer2]

18. And they don't stop

Nt

[BlackSkimmer]

22. Odd, isn't it?

What's that saying from Abe Lincoln? "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool..."

[yardwork]

21. The posters who are criticizing this woman appear to be white middle-aged women.

From their posting histories, I get the impression that they live in rural or suburban communities. They may never have rented any vehicle. They don't seem to be familiar with cities. Clearly, they've never had to depend on renting a Citibike to get home.

Sitting in their comfortable crafting rooms, listening to atrociously lazy, breathlessly biased reporting about this incident, they leap to show their anti-racist bona fides by doing what is familiar and comes naturally - tearing down another woman. Usually, in their communities this is expressed by making catty comments about the new preacher's wife, who wears her skirts a little too short and was seen flirting with the organist. Today it's a Physicians Assistant (they're not clear what that is, but she's definitely not a nurse so stop saying that), who lives in New York City (by herself? Where's her husband? Why's she riding a bike by herself anyway??), and had the gall to make a public scene when those nice polite young men (who are being hunted every day by police - doesn't she know that??!) said "ma'am, please?, could we use this bike?"

These posters have probably never been to NYC except maybe once when they stayed in Times Square and visited the Disney store. They may not know any Black people, but they're keen to let us know that we are Racists for siding with this slutty woman (who is pregnant and still working?! A likely story.) over those nice young men.

The rest of us don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[BlackSkimmer]

24. I'd rec this post a thousand times if I only could.

Spot on about who is making these comments. One even posted that she was "tired of white women's tears."

Someone compared this to the Emmett Till tragedy. And that, I'm afraid, is a bridge too far.

It a horrendous comparison.

[Srkdqltr]

31. I'm not critical of the woman. I would be scared stupid if it happened to me (I'm middle-aged in my

Craft Room I'm 81)
.. I was answering in the style of the story, a what if story that needed a storybook ending.

[yardwork]

34. I didn't take your post as criticizing the woman.

I thought your post in this thread was funny. I'm reacting to posters in other threads.

I too am an older white woman who lives in the suburbs. I'm writing about what I know.

[LisaM]

23. Not to mention the lanyard thing.

She was not at work and she took off her lanyard, which also seemed to set people off. The problem is that total strangers "report" people who aren't at work to their employers for things completely unrelated to their jobs, a really nasty trend.

This Karen stuff has bothered me for a long time. It's misogynistic and usually (though not here) ageist. God forbid women stick up for themselves.

I don't believe any stories any more till I check them out.

[yardwork]

26. She may have taken off her ID because she was being recorded.

She wouldn't want her name on the internet (which happened anyway, since the people who recorded this uploaded it to TikTok and then the media ran with their narrative, demonizing and doxxing her).

And, I agree with you, she also wouldn't want her employer to be identified.

I have no idea how people are seeing something nefarious in her removing her lanyard. But then again, I don't see anything nefarious in anything she did.

[BlackSkimmer]

27. As a long time bike rider, I frequently remove lanyards and avoid having anything hanging from my

neck while on a bike.

It can be dangerous. But no doubt she sussed out what was happening pretty damn quick when she saw the avid filming, the harassing, and realized she was being set up.

What an awful thing to happen to anyone, much less a pregnant woman. I cannot believe that people are attacking a P.A in this manner.

Remember when frontline medical workers were heroes here? Remember #believewomen?

How the worm doth turn.

[debm55]

39. As a former teacher, we had breakaway lanyards. That way you wouldn't get hurt. Being she worked at

Belview Hospital, it may have been a habit to remove in the case of violent patients. Also, a PA is above a nurse in training. In many areas where doctors are scarce, PA will see the patient and are allowed to prescribe medicine.

[aggiesal]

25. I don't believe what you describe is exactly what happened with the Citi-Bike rental. ...

Read this story, to hear the other side.
I linked the images of the boys receipts.

The receipts show that the boy was renting the same bike 560-3915 since 5:53pm,
docking the bike and undocking the bike within 45 minutes to save on rates, because
the rates go up at 45 minutes.

https://newsone.com/4592993/sarah-jane-comrie-update-citi-bike-teens-mother-speaks-out/


5:30 pm - 6:06 pm



6:08 pm - 6:30 pm



6:33 pm - 7:19 pm



7:25 pm - 7:31 pm



7:59 pm - 8:41 pm



9:46 pm - 10:12 pm

[yardwork]

29. The reporting on this has been atrociously biased.

I had to wade through a lot more highly emotional, one-sided "reporting" to get to what he said happened.

Even if their story is true - and others dispute that it is not - the woman was well within her rights to ask people who were hoarding the e-bikes to relinquish them to a new rider. The bikes were not in their possession once their time ran out. It's gaming the system to "hold" bikes you're no longer renting, preventing others from using them.

His receipts corroborate that she had legitimately rented the bike.

In any case, nobody was harmed, and this would be nothing if the teens hadn't recorded the incident, uploaded it to TikTok, and notified the media. Now they're complaining about the publicity. They created it.

The biased reporter states that "conservatives and racists" are criticizing the teens. I'm neither but I'm criticizing them! They absolutely should have relinquished the bikes to another rider, especially a pregnant woman who was trying to get home after work.

The bikes are not theirs to hoard all day long.

[aggiesal]

30. OK, so you didn't read the story ...

I get it.

[yardwork]

33. I read the entire story. I'm responding to it.

[aggiesal]

36. There were other bikes that she could have used! ...

And he needed it to get back home.

They were there for a few minutes when he said Sarah Jane Comrie approached their group. She initially asked one of Michael’s friends if she could take the bike he was resting on. He politely declined, informing her that they were going to be leaving shortly and using the bikes again.

She next approached a different boy in the group and asked him the same thing. That boy also politely declined.

Michael was still standing near his bike with his hands on the handlebars.

According to Michael, Sarah Jane Comrie asked him, “Can I please have this bike?”

Michael said he declined.

“No, I’m about to take it back out,” he told her.

Michael said Sarah Jane Comrie then said to him, “I’m pregnant. Can you help a pregnant woman out?”

Michael said he then told her, “I’m sorry ma’am. I’ve ridden this bike all the way from the Bronx, and I need this bike to go back home.”

Michael says that is when Sarah Jane Comrie moved closer to him and his bike, leaned over him, and scanned the QR code with her phone even as he had his hands on the handlebars.

She then pushed her way onto the bike and attempted to remove it from the docking station and take it.

It was 7:24 p.m., and that is when the boys began recording.

You can hear them in the video calling for someone to record Sarah Jane Comrie at the beginning of the footage.

“You know if someone is using something,” Mary interjected emphatically. “There are obvious physical cues to let you know when something is in use or someone is planning to use something.”

Michael insisted Sarah Jane Comrie knew he was planning to use the bike. He said she asked him and his friends to use theirs, and they all informed her they were using the bikes and would be leaving shortly.

He said she seemed annoyed that they wouldn’t willingly give up their bikes to her. He also said he believes she wanted that bike as opposed to the others that remained docked in the rack because he had one of the newer e-bikes.

[yardwork]

40. They both wanted the e-bikes, which are easier to ride.

They both wanted to get home. She had just finished a 12-hour shift and she's pregnant. He's a 17 year old boy.

I would have told my sons to let the pregnant lady have the good bike.

I would tell my sons not to put it on the internet. Now they're sorry they're getting bad publicity. The woman didn't report them. They sought the publicity.

[aggiesal]

42. A 17 year old boy with little money and he had possession of it ...

I would have told my sons, to point out the other bikes available.
If the boys weren't there, she would have no choice but to use the other bike available.

She still tried to take possession when told he was still in using it and with possession.

The video online is irrelevant.

I think we should agree to disagree.

[questionseverything]

46. If he needed to use it to get home, he shouldn't have turned it in

You seem to want him to have the cake and eat it too

If he was currently renting the bike she couldn’t of rented it

Yes he says he is still using it but he doesn’t want to pay

That’s not how renting works

[aggiesal]

49. If you read the article, which you said you did ...

you would have known that they are poor & on public assistance.
The try take advantage of every loophole they could find.
So riding a bike for less than 45 minutes was a strategy to keep costs down.
Apparently “Even regular Citi Bike riders do this,”

Sarah Jane Comrie had other options.
Give it up, you're losing this debate.

Michael explained that because his family receives some public assistance, he gets a discount on Citi Bike rides, but after 45 minutes, the rate on the bikes increases.

Michael said he pays for his own Citi Bike account, and in order to avoid the higher charges, he frequently stops his rides before they go over 45 minutes to rest and re-dock the bike. Re-docking the bike resets the timer, allowing him to ride for another 45 minutes before stopping again.

“Even regular Citi Bike riders do this,” Mary explained. “The price goes up after 45 minutes for everyone, so people routinely ride their bikes, dock their bikes, ride their bikes, and dock their bikes again.”

Michael’s story directly contradicts the narrative that Justin Marino — the employment attorney representing Sarah Jane Comrie — gave in a statement he wrote to the New York Post.

[aggiesal]

52. All superfluous points. You're just making excuses for them not to use the bikes. Do better. ...

The bikes are to be used by anyone for any purpose.

[questionseverything]

53. Immigrants, poor and on public assistance demanding e bikes for free

To ride all over town

Are you writing republican commercials or what ?

[yardwork]

54. And the pregnant woman who just got off work in the hospital has no rights.

This is a Republican ad.

[aggiesal]

55. There were other bikes to choose n/t

[aggiesal]

56. Funny you should bring up (R)'s ...

I don't know what the woman's politics are, but the majority of those supporting her online appear to be very conservative, because they're defending their "Karen".
And of course there are 5 black males involved.

Just saying.

[yardwork]

58. I believe the right wing might well jump on this story.

The media did a major disservice by running with an overwrought, stereotypical story. It is inexcusably lazy reporting. What was a fairly typical NYC incident between grumpy people got blown way out of proportion, to the detriment of all parties and the detriment, ultimately, of anti-racism.

[aggiesal]

59. Watch this video ...

Let me know what you think.

Link to tweet

[Sympthsical]

60. The entire internet is clowning this guy

Just, fyi. I wouldn't have used that video for anything, lol.

[aggiesal]

63. Not the entire, just the RWNJ's n/t

[Sympthsical]

64. He's a grown man who creepily attacks minors on TikTok

Like, crazy creepy grown man.

Sometimes I think social media get so insular that people don't quite catch how certain things look from an outside perspective. Like, you get so involved, everything becomes normalized.

Then the general public catches wind and has to point out, "You know that's a super creepy grown man preoccupied with attacking minors, right?"

But sure, cite that mess. Linking to videos that only argue against one's position seems to be the theme in all of this.

(But seriously, the man is creepy)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

37. She literally snatched his phone out of his hand.

She started a physical altercation because she wanted a bike he had in his possession and then yelled “help help you are hurting my fetus”

She should be charged with battery and attempted robbery for the attempted phone theft.


You are correct. The bikes aren’t theirs to hoard. But she isn’t the bike cop either and she shouldn’t be trying to push people out of the way and snatching phones.

[yardwork]

41. Well, I can't tell what happened with the phone because the video is edited.

There are a number of jump cuts.

The videos I've seen begin with her on the bike. Did she push him off? That seems unlikely.

[questionseverything]

47. The phone thing is after the men push the bike into the rack after she had paid for it

So they illegally restrained her first

[ForgedCrank]

28. You forgot

the most important part. He still had his hand on it when he got tired of playing, so playground rules say it was still his. At least that's what I'm being told. And you should hand it over because someone might show up and murder him in cold blood because he's a POC and it'll be totally all your fault.
Geez, don't you guys know anything?

/s

[yardwork]

32. What I've learned from a handful of posters:

Women must always defer to men, even if the woman is a pregnant adult who just completed a 12-hour shift as a provider in a psychiatric hospital and wants to get home, and the men are teenagers enjoying summer vacation.

If a woman doesn't defer to a man, and she happens to be white and he's Black, then clearly her goal is to get him killed. No other possibility exists.

If you're a woman who is upset in any way - frightened, angry, frustrated, tired, hungry - you better watch your tone because you can be recorded and smeared on the internet. And your employer will suspend you.

And you deserve to be called a bitch by the strangers who are recording you.

And the media will call you a racist.

Shades of The Handmaid's Tale.

[XanaDUer2]

44. Thank you

Great post

[ChazII]

51. +1 Totally agree.n/t

[Hekate]

35. KnR, yardwork. Here's what I said to the other thread, & a lot of it applies...

Edited to add: All thru college I worked 5pm to 9pm at a department store in a large mall in a city. I had no car. I had no bicycle. City busses stopped running from the mall shortly after 9pm, while all us worker-bees were still counting out the registers and closing up. If I couldn’t beg a ride in the general direction of my apartment I walked home. No matter which mode of transport I used, I ended up walking through a dark alley to get to my street. Now I am old and have a car and live in a suburb — but I have not forgotten being young and female and alone walking through the dark alley.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217947245

45. It would be creepy & scary. I always, always hang on to my receipts. In a retail transaction...

… when asked if I want a bag for a small item, I always say yes. My level of trust for my fellow human beings and their perceptions only goes so far. Must have something to do with all those years I worked in retail.

Also, I am a small person. Most women are smaller than most men. Most men’s upper body strength far outmatches that of a woman of the same size. If I were to be jostled by several male or female people raising their voices at me and filming my reaction, my inner self would be terrified. My outer self would try to stay rational and grounded in what I know to be true, since I am being accused of something I did not do. Try negotiating/arguing my case first.

I’m being jostled, how do I interpret their intentions? It would take violence to steal my purse, because I wear it bandolier-style (it holds all my keys and my wallet and my credit cards and my phone).

At what point do I shout? All of this goes through my mind in seconds…

[yardwork]

43. I saw your post and agreed.

I am a white woman who now has a comfy life in the suburbs, where I have the fortune to drive my reliable car from place to place. But I remember what it's like to feel vulnerable.

This woman is a PA, providing direct care to people in a psychiatric hospital in NYC. She was tired, probably hungry, and probably not in the mood to take crap from some teens hoarding the e-bikes.

They and others chose to make a really big deal out of this, recording it and releasing it on TikTok. They've accused her of racism, of trying to get them killed. What nonsense.

[ForgedCrank]

45. Some folks

apparently live to be outraged. We are surrounded by them. And as a general rule, they hurt every cause they lay claim to with their behaviors. I can understand the emotional reaction on certain subjects, but it appears many abandon all reason and logic when they see an opportunity. It's hard for me to understand.
It's difficult to do sometimes, but it's always wise to look at these things with an open mind because far more often than not, the initial story is completely wrong, and everyone is standing around with egg on their face a week later, and running around deleting their tweets. I don't know if its "gotta be first" or "gotta be right", or "must be the most outraged" that drives it. Maybe it's all of those.

[Kaleva]

57. It's sometimes best to back off and deescalate the situation

Material things aren't worth fighting for.

[Sam_Fields]

61. The safest thing to do is leave the area.

People are capable of becoming violent on a whim. The skin pigmentation doesn't matter.

[ismnotwasm]

62. That is not analogous to what happened, but fine.

It was never about the bike. Not at first. Her behavior could have gotten that 17 year old boy shot.

What I find interesting, is I followed the story before it blew up. I’m still following it. Call it an interest in anthropology.
I’ve looked at the parties involved, the way the bikes are rented, the city maps. the reactions on any side of this issue. I’ve seen ways of describing the young men —anywhere from “thugs” to gang members”—that were particularly heinous. Mostly from bigots.

Then, Somehow, possible due to very clever and effective media manipulation this has turned into a “woman’s” issue before a “young black men vs white woman” episode.

White women, and white women tears have gotten black men killed, time and time again this is not in dispute. I hope. This is the reaction you are seeing from people who defend the young man. Not “pity the pregnant woman”.

At a cursory glance, The boys story, as narrated by his sister ie —he never took his hands of the handle bars—is just as valid as the woman’s. Just. As. Valid. Why we choose the ‘sides’ we do isn’t based on available information alone. We all have biases.
A deeper examination just shows that she (apparently) got told no, several times and decided no wasn’t happening. I am sure she regrets it. I hope she does.

What I would like to see happen is a meeting of all persons involved as a way to decrease tension. I can tell you many Black activists on the left are not happy with the situation, because they are who I listen to in any situation involving race. Always.