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gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:47 AM May 2023

The Extremist Wings Of Both Parties

I usually do not watch any cable news except for Nicolle Wallace, but I watched cable news last night because of the debt ceiling agreement.

I listened to the narrative, the "extremist wings of both parties."

What is the extremist wing of the Democratic party, I would like to know?

Is it people like Joe Lieberman who cost our party getting the public option included with Obamacare?

Is it people like Manchin and Sinema who cost us doing a clean debt ceiling bill in 2022?

I do not believe that the Democratic party has an extremist wing but I realize how ignorant I am, someone set me straight.

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The Extremist Wings Of Both Parties (Original Post) gab13by13 May 2023 OP
It's "bothsiderism" nonsense. Coventina May 2023 #1
Any media outlet you see talking about "both sides" have extremes NotVeryImportant May 2023 #59
the extreme on the left is "anti war in Ukraine" and anti vax. Some of the extreme left mucifer May 2023 #2
Who in the Senate and House gab13by13 May 2023 #5
AOC voted against money to Ukraine. mucifer May 2023 #7
She knew it would pass, she can count. She voted against it because of increased Autumn May 2023 #17
I won't click on "The Hill" gab13by13 May 2023 #18
The Hill, OMG Emile May 2023 #33
Also we don't want to die in a mass shooting. Initech May 2023 #56
I just saw a Joe Leiberman ad for the No Labels Party this morning eShirl May 2023 #3
There are plenty on the Democratic side who would let perfection be the enemy of the greater good. bottomofthehill May 2023 #4
Speaker Pelosi got the votes, gab13by13 May 2023 #8
There is none. ismnotwasm May 2023 #6
Thank you, gab13by13 May 2023 #10
Their extremist wing actually has power 617Blue May 2023 #9
GQP have to pass a Koch brother litmus test or no funding. GreenWave May 2023 #11
If you ticked off the extremists it's a good thing 👌 Srkdqltr May 2023 #12
The "extremist" wing of the Democrats is a fiction media figures love... JHB May 2023 #13
Good explanation of the media treestar May 2023 #48
The names of the extremist House Democrats are taxi May 2023 #14
The Democratic party has no extremist wing. The Democratic party has moderates and progressives. Autumn May 2023 #15
There definitely are extremists in both parties, and there always will be calguy May 2023 #16
Give me a name of a member of Congress gab13by13 May 2023 #19
I'm sure you won't agree with me, and I'm ok with it calguy May 2023 #21
She must be doing something right gab13by13 May 2023 #25
Like I said, you won't agree with me calguy May 2023 #27
gab13by13 specifically asked what position of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez do you disagree with NotVeryImportant May 2023 #58
Nor will you calguy May 2023 #60
There's no tit or tat sir. NotVeryImportant May 2023 #61
I have no beef with you calguy May 2023 #62
If AOC is an extremists, so am I and most young people. walkingman May 2023 #29
I'll be 73 next month calguy May 2023 #31
Hey man...Nice to meet you. History has shown that 50 years later walkingman May 2023 #42
Nice to meet you, too calguy May 2023 #49
I was just reading something about this. betsuni May 2023 #52
Yup, those are my feelings exactly calguy May 2023 #57
AOC?! Oh please. In most advanced countries she'd be considered a centrist. Sky Jewels May 2023 #39
Who cares what her politics are in Europe? AZSkiffyGeek May 2023 #43
I think it's sad that a U.S. Democrat would consider her an "extremist." Sky Jewels May 2023 #44
No it hasn't been "pushed so far right." That's a myth. betsuni May 2023 #54
Hate to break the news... calguy May 2023 #63
Those that refused to vote for Hillary in the general election in 2016 by either voting third party JohnSJ May 2023 #34
Cori Bush Polybius May 2023 #45
Was surprised to see her on "The View" (last October) STILL defending "Defund the Police." betsuni May 2023 #53
The extremists in the Democratic Party want universal healthcare MadameButterfly May 2023 #20
Well said, gab13by13 May 2023 #22
ironic to be called exreme for policies a majority supports MadameButterfly May 2023 #66
+1000 roamer65 May 2023 #38
As Robert Reich explains, Republicans have become extreme. Dems stayed the same. CousinIT May 2023 #23
+1 betsuni May 2023 #55
Democrats vs Republicans NowISeetheLight May 2023 #24
K&R Doc Sportello May 2023 #26
A large majority of the Republican Party is an "extremist wing" Martin Eden May 2023 #28
Extremism does exist in the Democratic Party. Denying it doesn't do anyone any good. Beastly Boy May 2023 #30
Thanks, this is a much more articulate post than what I was trying to say above. bottomofthehill May 2023 #41
Recommended. H2O Man May 2023 #32
except one side is doing all the violence reymega life May 2023 #35
A very good OP and thread. Mister Ed May 2023 #36
I am a Social Democrat. roamer65 May 2023 #37
"The Far Left" in this country is like God ... Sky Jewels May 2023 #40
Even Morning Joe now disparages "bothside-ism" as the fake it is and they used to use the CTyankee May 2023 #46
Those are centrists treestar May 2023 #47
President Joe Biden for the win! UCmeNdc May 2023 #50
The "extreme left" are not Democrats. Lunabell May 2023 #51
This is one of the things that made me quit the "extreme left" and turned me into a Democrat. Axelrods_Typewriter May 2023 #64
Yep, in the words of the Who Lunabell May 2023 #65
Welp, perhaps you spoke too soon Polybius Oct 2023 #67

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
1. It's "bothsiderism" nonsense.
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:50 AM
May 2023

There is no extreme wing of the Democratic party.
There are extreme lefties, but they are tiny in number in comparison to the numbers and clout of the extreme righties.

 

NotVeryImportant

(578 posts)
59. Any media outlet you see talking about "both sides" have extremes
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:55 PM
May 2023

Is not a legitimate media outlet.

That should tell you the state we're in here in America.

mucifer

(23,374 posts)
2. the extreme on the left is "anti war in Ukraine" and anti vax. Some of the extreme left
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:53 AM
May 2023

does not want to give any money to Ukraine and is anti vaccine. But, most dems aren't that extreme. They do believe in human rights.

It seems most republicans are in. the extremes. Most dems are not.

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
5. Who in the Senate and House
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:01 AM
May 2023

doesn't want to give money to Ukraine? Who is anti-vax? I am not aware of these members of Congress and I would like to know their names.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
17. She knew it would pass, she can count. She voted against it because of increased
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:28 AM
May 2023

funding for defense and federal agencies that oversee immigration.

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
18. I won't click on "The Hill"
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:28 AM
May 2023

I view it as a right wing extremist rag that employed John Solomon who was executive VP of digital video while he was there.

Initech

(99,915 posts)
56. Also we don't want to die in a mass shooting.
Sun May 28, 2023, 05:44 PM
May 2023

The right wing on the other hand seems hell bent on making this entire country a giant war zone.

bottomofthehill

(8,261 posts)
4. There are plenty on the Democratic side who would let perfection be the enemy of the greater good.
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:59 AM
May 2023

Extremists, not to me, pain in the ass to Speaker Pelosi when she led the party, Clearly. The non adult clown caucus of the Democratic Party. Complaining you are not getting what you want is easy, getting the votes is hard. Speaker Pelosi got the votes while others talked of perfection.

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
8. Speaker Pelosi got the votes,
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:06 AM
May 2023

those are your words. Speaker Pelosi got those votes because the progressive caucus voted with Pelosi.

I do not want this thread to start another progressive v Moderate fight. There are progressive members and moderate members of the Democratic party who I have differences with but I do not see any member of our party as being extreme, and I certainly don't see any member as being a non adult clown.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
6. There is none.
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:01 AM
May 2023

The right wants there to be, because they have chided to be terrible people. There is nothing extremist about the Democratic Party

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
10. Thank you,
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:09 AM
May 2023

that is my simple point I was trying to make. The Democratic party is a great party because of our diversity, because we represent all of America.

GreenWave

(6,494 posts)
11. GQP have to pass a Koch brother litmus test or no funding.
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:10 AM
May 2023

So as many predicted: You create a legion of Frankensteins, good luck getting them back in the box.

JHB

(37,132 posts)
13. The "extremist" wing of the Democrats is a fiction media figures love...
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:14 AM
May 2023

...because it lets them play at being "the reasonable people". To acknowledge that only one side has rampant extremism means that they'd have to speak against it, and that would mean they have "liberal bias."

"The usual suspects" for the fictional Democratic "extremists" are Bernie, AOC, and "The Squad," who, even if they went hog-wild (which they can't), would still have us looking more like the Eisenhower administration than like Venezuela or Cuba.


taxi

(1,895 posts)
14. The names of the extremist House Democrats are
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:21 AM
May 2023

those whose names are not on Wednesday's discharge petition. Here's the list:

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
15. The Democratic party has no extremist wing. The Democratic party has moderates and progressives.
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:24 AM
May 2023

The Republican party has an extremist wing, they have assholes and fucking crazies.

calguy

(5,223 posts)
16. There definitely are extremists in both parties, and there always will be
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:26 AM
May 2023

The difference is the republican extremists have taken control of the party, whereas with the Democrats, cooler heads prevail.

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
19. Give me a name of a member of Congress
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:32 AM
May 2023

who is an extremist and why he/she is extremist. A Democrat.

calguy

(5,223 posts)
21. I'm sure you won't agree with me, and I'm ok with it
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:52 AM
May 2023

But I consider voices like, AOC to be extremist. While I agree with many of her positions, the way she goes about it offends the very people whose minds she needs to change.

This is understandable because she's still relatively new in Congress and learning the game. When she learns to tone down her rhetoric, she'll accomplish great things. Until she does, she'll continue to voice her extremist position, but she won't have the political leverage to get anything done.

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
25. She must be doing something right
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:03 AM
May 2023

seeing how she is attacked by the Magats. What position of hers are you opposed to?

Ted Kennedy was a loud voice also.

calguy

(5,223 posts)
27. Like I said, you won't agree with me
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:10 AM
May 2023

And I'm cool with it.

Politics is a craft that must be honed. Once she learns to get her points across without pissing off half the people she needs to accomplish her goal, she'll be much more effective.

 

NotVeryImportant

(578 posts)
58. gab13by13 specifically asked what position of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez do you disagree with
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:52 PM
May 2023

I haven't seen an answer from you on that.

Do you have one, or two, or three?

calguy

(5,223 posts)
60. Nor will you
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:58 PM
May 2023

My comment was made in general terms, and I'm not about to get into a 'tit-for-tat' kind of argument. Read the civil discussion between walkingman and myself if you're really all that interested in what I meant by that statement.

 

NotVeryImportant

(578 posts)
61. There's no tit or tat sir.
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:05 PM
May 2023

Just you unable to state one, simple, position that you disagree w/Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on.

That speaks for itself.

calguy

(5,223 posts)
62. I have no beef with you
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:17 PM
May 2023

If you want to make a big deal out of it, you'll have to do it with yourself.
Good day.

walkingman

(7,512 posts)
29. If AOC is an extremists, so am I and most young people.
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:19 AM
May 2023

I have been this way since I was able to vote and most of the people I know from the 60's were also. I'm 72.

calguy

(5,223 posts)
31. I'll be 73 next month
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:36 AM
May 2023

Remember back in the sixties when the extreme voices in our party (which I agreed with) took center stage and got all the headlines?
Remember how it all came to a head at the 1968 convention in Chicago?
Remember how it weakened our party and Nixon won that election?
Remember how the extreme elements of our party, (which I was one of) took control and nominated George McGovern?
Remember how badly we got our asses kicked?
This is the trajectory the GOP is on right now with trump.

Those who fail to learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them.

walkingman

(7,512 posts)
42. Hey man...Nice to meet you. History has shown that 50 years later
Sun May 28, 2023, 12:05 PM
May 2023

we were right about politics and war, right about the environment, right about society. Yes, Nixon beat McGovern but times have changed. The majority voting blocks are becoming the millennials and Gen-Z as we Boomers fade into the sunset. The Democrats are the true "big tent" party.

Progressives are much closer to the vast majority of ordinary Americans these days. When you advocate for economic policies that benefit the majority of citizens, that’s a centrist. Wanting the wealthy to pay their "fair share" is not extreme. Healthcare for all, debt-free and tuition-free college, higher minimum wage, gun control, abortion, legalizing weed, immigration reform, are not extreme positions.

The GOP brought in religion and bigotry into our political discourse in the 80's and now it is their "base". To cover the nastiness they now use cultural issues as their bread and butter. They basically have no policies except for reduce taxes, and deregulation. They can't win without gerrymandering, voter suppression, electoral college - they simply do not have the numbers.

So it is easy to describe the Democrats such as AOC as extreme - she's really not. ☮

calguy

(5,223 posts)
49. Nice to meet you, too
Sun May 28, 2023, 12:58 PM
May 2023

We were indeed right fifty years ago. My point is if we had been a little more experienced and presented our case a little better, we would have accomplished much more than we did.

Of course, like-minded people can disagree with me. Sometimes we get so gun-ho with our ideas that we forget that not everyone agrees with us. It's better, in my opinion, to ease off the gas to make it more palatable for those who oppose us to consider our positions and come over to our side.

Peace be with you.

betsuni

(25,133 posts)
52. I was just reading something about this.
Sun May 28, 2023, 05:24 PM
May 2023

Before 1973 there were lots of good paying manufacturing jobs, increased wages, low economic inequality, union membership, LBJ had improved the social safety net.

"So what caused Trump's White working-class base to leave the Democrats? The short answer is the culture war. Not economic insecurity. And that war was started by the radical left. I was part of that, and everybody saw it happening. The counterculture made the news for years. ... Political radicalism was even more culturally upsetting to the White working class. Often this is excused by citing the radicalism of the civil rights movement, but this is wrong for two reasons -- that movement was not radical in the usual sense, and it did not upset and polarize the country. ... it rejected the dark side of radicalism that separates radicalism from liberalism, and it appealed to traditional American values. Then came the true radicalism of the '60s, beginning with Stokely Carmichael, who attacked MLK Jr. for being moderate or worse ... . ... After 1968 the anti-war movement went radical... .

"Sanders' economic theory says that between '64 and '72, the White working class, which was doing great economically, should have been swinging left, toward McGovern. But 20 million headed the other way. ... His theory predicts that restoring good jobs, rising wages and increased taxes on the rich, like we had before '73 would bring back the white working class. Yet, when we had all that, that was when the largest slice of the working class left the Democratic Party.

"Culture-war theory says that between '64 and '72, the White working class, which was then deeply offended by left radicalism, should have been swinging right, away from McGovern. And it was. ... McGovern was ridiculed as the candidate of 'Acid, Amnesty and Abortion.' This was an attack on the counterculture, the draft dodgers in Canada and the women's movement. Nixon implicitly blamed the largely-Black urban riots on the Black Power movement. ... They knew that culture-war issues were more powerful than a booming, low-inequality economy. Radicals don't get it."

Steven Stoft

calguy

(5,223 posts)
57. Yup, those are my feelings exactly
Sun May 28, 2023, 08:38 PM
May 2023

Looking back on all that, I think we were on such a roll as a generation, we forgot that there were just as many of 'them' as there were of us. When Nixon made it look like the Viet Nam war was coming to a end, (remember Kissinger's 'peace is at hand' proclamation just after McGovern was nominated?) we lost a good number of anti-war voters, along with those fed up with the entire hippie movement, we lost the majority we took for granted. Remember that Jimmy Carter won by a slim margin set up by Watergate, and when things went sour during his term, the dam busted wide open for a conservative take over, which we are still in the midst of today.

Funny how much perspective we gain with fifty years experience under our belts. This is why I think our bright young politicians like AOC, even though they mean well, do us more harm than good when they open their mouths without thinking how they'll be perceived by people whose minds need to be changed to our way of thinking.

Sky Jewels

(6,860 posts)
44. I think it's sad that a U.S. Democrat would consider her an "extremist."
Sun May 28, 2023, 12:11 PM
May 2023

This country has gotten pushed so far right that some people, even Democrats, perceive the most sensible, practical, humane policies as "far left." It's ridiculous.

betsuni

(25,133 posts)
54. No it hasn't been "pushed so far right." That's a myth.
Sun May 28, 2023, 05:38 PM
May 2023

Republicans have become a post-policy extremist far-right party. See post #23.

calguy

(5,223 posts)
63. Hate to break the news...
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:32 PM
May 2023

but she's viewed by many people who AREN'T democrats to be as extreme in her views as we view the most extreme Republicans. She's viewed that way because of the way she presents herself. Nancy Pelosi is in many ways as extreme as AOC, but she chooses her words carefully and more professionally, which is why she's in my opinion the greatest Speaker of the House in our history.

JohnSJ

(91,964 posts)
34. Those that refused to vote for Hillary in the general election in 2016 by either voting third party
Sun May 28, 2023, 11:32 AM
May 2023

or not voting

Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Gray, David Sirota, Cornell West, etc. Not only did they not vote for Hillary in the General Election over trump, but they encouraged others to do likewise, andc some of those people were part of the rules committee

In 2016, Hillary lost by less than 1% in those critical swing states, while Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.

and the arguments I heard here and other places at the time was that “the Supreme Court didn’t matter, there was no difference between the two parties, they were tired of voting for the lessor of two evils, even the argument that supposedly Hillary was worse than trump” etc.

As for those who argue there are no “extreme positions” among the left, Defund the Police is one example. AOC as and others were proponents of the call to defund the police is one example

The Democratic Socialist of America not only were against our involvement in helping Ukraine, but also blamed the US and NATO for the reason Russia invaded Ukraine.

That being said, there is no comparison between the two, and those that try to portray both siderisms ignore the fact that the extreme right positions motives are authoritarian

The extremist of the Republican Party are racist, sexist, and bigoted, something that can not be equated to left

MadameButterfly

(945 posts)
20. The extremists in the Democratic Party want universal healthcare
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:43 AM
May 2023

They want to stop taking moderate steps to solve an extreme problem like a fascist Republican Party. Some will entertain packing the Supreme Court and then reforming it, adding DC and Puerto Rico as states. Dramatic movement on climate change, sustainable agriculture, ending the electoral college, restoring voting rights, a living wage...Yes, left and right extremes have defectors on Ukraine. More on the right.

What seems like reasonable policies to many of us are hard for us to label extreme, but that is what they mean when the talk about the extreme on the left. Extreme Republicans want fascsim. It's about money and power. Extreme Democrats want democracy, economic freedom/equality, and a livable planet.
Extreme isn't always bad. It's which extreme you choose. They aren't equal.

gab13by13

(20,867 posts)
22. Well said,
Sun May 28, 2023, 09:52 AM
May 2023

and the so called extremists in the Democratic party espouse policies that the majority of Americans are in favor of, they are popular extremists I guess.

CousinIT

(9,151 posts)
23. As Robert Reich explains, Republicans have become extreme. Dems stayed the same.
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:01 AM
May 2023

Of course the corprat-owned media does their "both sides" bullshit. The corprat bosses evidently require it - because they're certainly not allowed to tell the truth.

The debt ceiling debacle is NOT a “partisan standoff”
It was completely manufactured by Kevin McCarthy and his House Republicans

https://robertreich.substack.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-debacle-is-not-a

Let's Be Clear: Only the Right Has Become More Extreme Over the Last 50 Years
Like in the early 1970s, the left is still against the war machine, still pushing for civil and voting rights, and still fighting the power of big corporations. But the right has moved far, far rightward
.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/02/16/lets-be-clear-only-right-has-become-more-extreme-over-last-50-years

NowISeetheLight

(3,941 posts)
24. Democrats vs Republicans
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:01 AM
May 2023

When I think of "Democrat progressives" I think of people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who want universal healthcare and lower tuition costs and an end to tax loopholes that benefit only the rich. I don't see that as "radical" or "extreme" at all. Rather I see that as caring for your fellow citizens.

I compare that to "Republican extremists" I see MTG, Gatez, Hawley, Boebert and the rest of the kooks. Kind of a "Lord of the Flies" mentality where what's mine is mine and screw everyone else. If you don't have money and can't eat it's your own fault. If you get sick and don't have healthcare it's your fault. The "fend for yourself" crowd where everyone is on their own.

I view that as "extreme". Wanting everyone to have access to healthcare isn't extreme... it's human decency.

Doc Sportello

(7,455 posts)
26. K&R
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:05 AM
May 2023

So far I've not seen any response that proves there is an extremist "wing" in the Democratic Party. The positions taken by AOC, etc., are favored by a majority of Democrats while the Progressive Caucus has supported Biden.

Martin Eden

(12,803 posts)
28. A large majority of the Republican Party is an "extremist wing"
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:13 AM
May 2023

In the big tent of the Democratic Party, some elected to Congress are of course more to the left than others.

But applying the term "extremist" to them and to the certifiably dangerous MAGA extremists is a blatantly false equivalency.

Beastly Boy

(9,063 posts)
30. Extremism does exist in the Democratic Party. Denying it doesn't do anyone any good.
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:33 AM
May 2023

But it doesn't compare to the extremism in the Republican Party, and I get just as pissed as you are when I see attempts to compare the two.

What we call left wing extremism exists mostly outside of the Democratic Party, and is represented in the Democratic Party by a small number of influential political figures. I would define extremism within the party as attempts to undermine reasonable mainstream policies and positions on ideological grounds that end up harming the goals and interests of not just the Party as a whole but the Left itself.

This doesn't begin to compare to the right wing extremism in the Republican Party, which manifests itself in the views and policies of the Party's majority, and has recently become harmful to society as a whole, if not pathological in its nature.

The two extremes are not comparable on any level, and the "both sides" comparison is ridiculous on its face, and should be rightfully rejected at every opportunity.

A word on left wing extremism: I, like many DUers, still resent the role that the left wing played in Hillary's defeat in 2016, and the dire consequences to the country this defeat brought. But I must acknowledge: this kind of extremism is no longer in place, or at least it no longer has the political capital to inflict great harm. The iconic political figures like AOC and Sanders, who were the most prominent leaders of the 2016 extreme left, are now far more mainstream than they used to be back then. So while I am not about to forget 2016, it is clear to me that the so-called extreme of the Democratic Party is not about to inflict harm, deliberately or inadvertently, on the country as a whole. This cannot be said about the Republican Party, and this is the essence of why attempts to compare two extremes are completely out of place.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
32. Recommended.
Sun May 28, 2023, 10:40 AM
May 2023

I do think there is an extremist wing in the Democratic Party. I say this, trying to remember what exactly Malcolm X said when called an extremist. But this isn't an exact quote. He said that Jesus was an extremist for love, and Gandhi an extremist for truth. So I think that a rather large "wing" of our party tries to follow these men's extreme example. On the other hand, the republican "wing" is extremist for hate and lies. This is, of course, merely my opinion.

Mister Ed

(5,896 posts)
36. A very good OP and thread.
Sun May 28, 2023, 11:42 AM
May 2023

The important point that comes through for me is this: the Democratic party, and Democratic voters, do not place left-wing extremists in office. In contrast, the modern Republican party and Republican voters reward right-wing extremists by giving them the largest megaphone and placing them in office to wield real power.

In this current political reality, any notion of "both sides" is absolute garbage.

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
37. I am a Social Democrat.
Sun May 28, 2023, 11:47 AM
May 2023

I believe in equal rights for ALL, completely unrestricted rights to an abortion and the basic human rights to not be hungry, have a good place to live and quality universal healthcare.

I think that is called “good trouble”, per John Lewis.

Sky Jewels

(6,860 posts)
40. "The Far Left" in this country is like God ...
Sun May 28, 2023, 11:51 AM
May 2023

in that there is zero evidence to support the existence of either.

Our "leftist extremists" hold positions that are norms in most high-functioning countries.

CTyankee

(63,771 posts)
46. Even Morning Joe now disparages "bothside-ism" as the fake it is and they used to use the
Sun May 28, 2023, 12:38 PM
May 2023

"both sides does it" argument. No more. I think Joe and Mika got wise to the con but late in the game. We on the left and here at DU had been disparaging it for a LONG time.

Well, well, at long last...

treestar

(82,383 posts)
47. Those are centrists
Sun May 28, 2023, 12:40 PM
May 2023

who like the power they get due to the existence of the filibuster.

There are no left extremists in the Senate.

Lunabell

(5,920 posts)
51. The "extreme left" are not Democrats.
Sun May 28, 2023, 03:47 PM
May 2023

They are anarchists. I am the leftist progressive wing, but understand the need to compromise, because not everyone thinks the same as me. Also, that this country has a two party system that I can't change in my lifetime.

I'm the "extreme left", I suppose, but violence is not a part of my belief system.

64. This is one of the things that made me quit the "extreme left" and turned me into a Democrat.
Sun May 28, 2023, 11:34 PM
May 2023

You can't get anything you want from a democratic system by looking at said system, eschewing the system of voting that has been the hallmark of democracy for thousands of years, and deciding violence will be your main way of engaging with that system.

Once upon a time, I got involved with the anarchistic and communistic side of the political world thinking they were peaceful, but they weren't. Oh how naive I was. I thought "well, maybe I can direct some of this into interfacing with local politiics and helping local liberal or generally left causes" - I thought wrong. They were quite violent people, committed to violence by any means, and as somebody who has worked very hard to temper and calm the angrier parts of themselves, I could not agree with violence. Violence is not a part of my toolbox for change. Violence destroys, and besides, it's terrible for PR.

Unsurprisingly, my desires for peace and hard work towards good weren't taken very well. I was forced out, but that was a blessing in disguise. It led me to becoming just a regular Democrat, a place where I could actually make a real difference, and not just a difference in the mind of a small amount of violent people. Fate laughed as I became part of the party of my forefathers.

Lunabell

(5,920 posts)
65. Yep, in the words of the Who
Mon May 29, 2023, 01:26 AM
May 2023

"Meet the new boss, he's the same as the old boss."

You can't be a worker for social justice and be a perpetrator of violence. I don't believe in changing the world through violent means. Even violence against neighborhoods, like smashing windows, or starting fires either. Peaceful protests, marching and getting arrested for non-violent demonstrations are fine.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a pacifist. If you hit me, I'll come back at you with even more force if I can. I WILL protect myself and others from violence. Just don't make me.

Polybius

(15,239 posts)
67. Welp, perhaps you spoke too soon
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 08:56 PM
Oct 2023

Blaming Israel and not condemning Hamas is happening right now by a few in Congress.

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