R's won. We lost.

[orthoclad]

There is nothing for the US people in the debt ceiling bill. Every feature of it is a concession to extreme right-wing influence - concessions to the people who tried to overthrow the government two short years ago, who are relying on the TV-clip-length memory of the US public.

The R House could not gain anything by legitimate means, so it resorted to extortion tactics of questionable constitutionality. They have won the field -- they got everything they really wanted. Ignore the performative noise of the F Caucus, they're just giving cover and smoke. What have the R's won?
-oppress the vulnerable weak and poor with BS work requirements for social relief
-allow rich people to cheat the IRS (I think this was their main goal; everything else is gravy)
-gut environmental protections of the NEPA
-specifically thwart permitting requirements and court oversight to enable the vastly unpopular Mountain Valley Pipeline, which is destroying sensitive habitat and property rights in order to hasten plastic manufacture and the climate crisis

What did we get in return?
A "promise" (from the insurrection party) not to do it again for two years.
Can you guess what a promise from these tools is worth?
That's all we got.

Ah, you say, but we saved the economy!
Bull! We just kicked the can down the road a little, while they enjoy their ill-gotten gains.

There are several ways to defeat these scum (defeat rather than encourage them) - the Constitution, the Mint, and, Dawg Forbid, take away this silly but destructive gun, er, law, they use by repealing it.

Why didn't we even try? Why did we cave to the terrorists?

--------------

"‘Stop the dirty deal’: activists decry Schumer and Manchin over pipeline plan"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/31/west-virginia-pipeline-debt-ceiling-vote

"‘An egregious act’: debt ceiling deal imperils the environment, critics say"
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/30/debt-ceiling-deal-environment-climate-crisis
?width=700&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none

"McCarthy ally says they ‘schooled’ the White House on the debt ceiling"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/debt-ceiling-vote-rules-committee-today-latest-b2348841.html

"Advocates to rally Sen. Warner to remove Mountain Valley Pipeline from debt ceiling bill"
https://appvoices.org/2023/05/31/mvp-debt-ceiling-rallies/

[we can do it]

1. What. Ever.

[MontanaMama]

2. What??

Nope.

[Wounded Bear]

3. Oscar Kilo...

[Sky Jewels]

4. Agreed.

I have to be careful of what I say, so I’ll just leave it at that.

[Fullduplexxx]

5. Well you work with the congress and media you have

[LakeArenal]

6. Oh you .... I think you need a dose of:

[MontanaMama]

7. Bwaahaaaa!

I'm bookmarking this thread just for that youtube vid.

[Hekate]

11. Right, what Lesley Gore said

[BootinUp]

8. Just curious

Did you vote 4 Hillary or one of the candidates sponsored by Russia in 2016?

[Hekate]

14. Makes one wonder, doesn't one?

[tritsofme]

32. Seems quite obvious, doesn't make me wonder very hard.

[lpbk2713]

9. Who do you consider "we"?

[markie]

10. ...

[BlueCheeseAgain]

12. If it helps, think of this as a budget deal, not a debt ceiling deal.

Even if the debt ceiling had been raised without conditions, at some point this year Congress would have to pass a budget. And with Republicans controlling the House, there would have had to be some compromises between the parties to fund the government. As a budget deal, this is quite good.

[In It to Win It]

15. I think that's the proper way to look at it.

They would have done the same thing when it's time for budget negotiations. They probably still will.

[Cha]

13. NO.. "Pres Biden WON"!!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/index.php

[Peacetrain]

44. Thank You!!

He is a master at this..

[Cha]

51. Yes Pres Biden is.. I need all the

Positive Reinforcement I can get with so much Negativity floating around.

[Peacetrain]

61. Always here for you Cha!!

I hear you about the negativity. .

[Cha]

63. Aww.. Mahalo, Peacetrain..

[In It to Win It]

16. He had to make a deal sometime. He's negotiating with toddlers. He has to be the adult in the room

Do you trust that Republicans would have given Biden a clean debt deal?

[Silent Type]

17. I don't feel that way. Everything doesn't have to be a short-term win..

[forgotmylogin]

18. Just the fact that the core maggots are FURIOUS makes it worth it.

They got a whole lot less than they were expecting for so much work they did.

[Trenzalore]

19. There is no debt ceiling until 2025 and McCarthy has a fire on his hands

We weren't getting the budget we wanted. Elections have consequences.

This drama is over until after the next election. Win for Biden.

[AZ8theist]

24. There might be no McCARTHY by 2025!!!

As speaker, anyway....

Popcorn, please. The House Fascist Caucus is caucusing.......

[Trenzalore]

28. Exactly

I fail to see how anyone doesn't see this as a win for Biden.

McCarthy is going to be dealing with chaos over the next few weeks and the GOP is going to look like fools.

Did we do things we did not want to do, yes but there is a hell of a lot of things they demanded we gave them a finger and are now off the table for two years.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

75. LOL

No.

The traitors couldn't get their act together 14 times to put him in place.

They won't hold together any better to remove him, and the Democrats won't help them any. If I were a Democrat, I'd vote present on a removal call, to make them own it entirely. That's the smart thing to do.

Because I guarantee it wouldn't pass on the first go, and they won't have the energy to go for a second, never mind 15th, round.

To be honest, McCarthy staying there is the best Democrats can hope for. Do you really trust who the traitors would give the gavel instead?

I don't.

McCarthy may actually be one of the sanest choices available from that side of the aisle. Not terribly sane compared to actual sanity, but compared to Scalise or Jordan or the Howler monkeys? That he's one of only a few in that party approaching not totally barmy is a savage indictment of just how far they've fallen.

[betsuni]

33. +1

[honest.abe]

20. You know elections have consequences.

The R's control the House and thus anything related to the budget. The only way forward was a compromise agreement. All the other options were pie in the sky and/or risky as hell.

[Trenzalore]

23. Some people think you magically get your way I guess

[inthewind21]

34. Which

is EXACLT how we got here in the first place!

[tritsofme]

37. I don't think these people are that stupid, but these are not good faith complaints.

They just have a different agenda, one that does not align with Biden or Democrats.

[betsuni]

49. The idea that fiery bully pulpit speeches about "fighting for" and "standing up to" will

easily overcome any little "excuses" like a Republican-controlled House or not having enough votes or EOs that are legally challenged. Everybody will see what is right and moral and do it. Easy!

Biden is a master at bully pulpiting, but pundits whine that he said something but things changed so now he has to do something else and wasn't that a terrible miscalculation? Why can't Biden tell the future and always know exactly the perfect thing to say? Let's pull out some polls and harp about his low approval ratings.

Everybody knew this was bipartisan and a compromise.

[yardwork]

57. I know. It's very childish.

[Freethinker65]

21. You are entitled to your opinion.

Biden worked out a really good compromise to not have our country go into default. A default would have caused more severe cuts to all of those programs you love and Americans depend on. And more people would have been thrown into an economic situation to need those programs while we were in default.

Biden, and his team, should be commended. (As actually should McCarthy, who knows he needs Democratic votes to get the bill passed which puts his political career and aspirations on the line. I hate the guy, but he deserves some credit.)

[Indykatie]

22. Orthoclad, You Need to Consider Buying a DU Membership

I'm always amazed by users who actively use the DU platform for their articles, rants and writings who don't bother to support the site financially.

[BlackSkimmer]

26. ...

[Spazito]

25. This says it all for me...

[grantcart]

54. Bingo

Some like the OP will observe that the GOP guy still has his glasses.

[Spazito]

55. LOL

too true!

[yardwork]

62. Lol!

[Elessar Zappa]

27. Well, we don't control the House.

Some type of compromise had to be made unless you want a worldwide recession (possibly depression). It sucks but elections have consequences.

[tritsofme]

29. This is a profoundly shallow and ignorant rant.

Last edited Wed May 31, 2023, 05:15 PM - Edit history (1)

There are several ways to defeat these scum (defeat rather than encourage them) - the Constitution, the Mint, and, Dawg Forbid, take away this silly but destructive gun, er, law, they use by repealing it.

What does this nonsense even mean? Completely untethered from reality. Take a civics class.

[inthewind21]

38. Exactly

[emulatorloo]

30. Yay, a garbage hot take. Unrec n/t

[Hortensis]

31. Just btw, despicable as most of the Reublicans being

elected these days are, including traitors in many cases, I take calling them "terrorists" as more of a comment on those who choose to use that term than them. And an alarming one.

As for those who outrageously insist our representatives not negotiate with Republican representative? They couldn't have all fallen on their heads! Do none of them realize what that means?

Every one of these creeps is elected by American citizens to represent them in congress. IN FACT, they represent approximately half of America. Negotiating with colleagues in congress to create and pass legislation both sides can live with is literally the job of those we send to represent us.

To oppose that is to oppose democracy itself. And carrying it out would finish the smashing Republicans are working on.

How is it that no one ever says what form of government they want to replace representative government of, by and for the people when democracy ends? Most of those Republicans electing candidates who promise to end liberal democracy and demanding Democrats be arrested and tried for being Democrats haven't either. What's going on?

While you consider that appalling commonality, I hope you'll take a moment to consider the heroism of those patriots who are fighting to keep our government functioning as well as it is. The term "hostile workplace" doesn't describe their extremely difficult and stressful working conditions these days.

[yardwork]

58. Very good points.

Some people what a dictatorship, I guess.

[mcar]

35. Even the Rs realize they lost

[gratuitous]

36. So what should President Biden have done differently?

Keep in mind that my magic wand is in the shop, so I can't just wave my preferred outcome into existence. I sense you're leaning toward invoking the 14th Amendment, which I would call a mistake of the first water. Under the Supreme Court as currently constituted, I don't think even the plain language of the Constitution is safe from the imaginative ways of Justice Alito for rewriting texts he doesn't like. See, e.g., the recent opinion in Sackett.

[inthewind21]

39. It dumbfounds

me just how many can't see the forest for the trees. Give simple solutions yet never consider, if it were that easy, we wouldn't be here in the first place! But, here we are. Because so many don't have even a basic understanding of civics 101.

[The Magistrate]

40. The Public May Have A Clip Length Memory, Sir, But You've A Rather Pixilated View Of Present Events

Eligibility for full SNAP allowances is increased under this measure: while there is a quite bogus 'work requirement' for able-bodied persons with no dependents which applies now up to the age of 54 rather than 49, these requirements, already in existence, are now waived for veterans and unhoused people, with the result that more people receive full benefits, and funding for the program is increased accordingly.

The 'reduction' of IRS funds is loaded into the downstream years of a ten year plan: increased funding at present is not crimped. No one ever has or ever will see a ten year plan come off as set forth.

Regarding the environmental concerns I am not particularly happy, but depicting them in strident terms as betrayal and worse is foolish at best. Two years of investigation is hardly breakneck speed, and Manchin is unfortunately well-positioned to demand his pound of flesh. There's nothing to be done about it but getting more Democrats and fewer Republicans in office.

Which is why anyone advocating Democrats in Congress cosplay as MAGA radicals and resolve to destroy the full faith and credit of the United States because their every itch has gone unscratched is every bit the enemy of the people and the country that wretches like Gosar and Green and company are. That course, if followed, would not only do great damage to economic activity here and all around the globe, it would sink like the Bismark any prospect of victory in the coming national election.

Of course, if you actually do think a 'clean bill' a possibility in Congress as presently constituted, there really isn't much to say....


"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the merely unpalatable."


"An idealist is one who, noticing a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes it must make a better soup."

[yardwork]

59. Thank you for this patient explication, Sir.

[betsuni]

65. +1

[Celerity]

69. +1

[ProfessorGAC]

71. Excellent Reply

Unsurprisingly!

[walkingman]

41. I think you are correct. Budget negotiations have nothing to do with the debt ceiling.

[tritsofme]

42. Not really true, at all. Historically it has been very common for debt ceiling increases to be tied

to budget negotiations.

[Bev54]

43. Have you even read the bill?

You are spouting talking points that are not even necessarily true, just a fraction of the truth. It is not what a democratic house would have gotten but it is so much better than most people thought it would be. Put your big boy pants on and realize we don’t get everything we want all the time. It at least does less harm than it could have.

[Music Man]

45. Your point is totally fair, and I'm disappointed so many here dismiss you outright.

In all, it's not a bad deal, because Joe Biden got many things he wanted anyway (like expanded defense and most of the IRS funding, and the student loan repayments were set to begin anyway), but he did go from a position of "I will not negotiate on this" to compromising on work requirements for food stamps, freezing non-defense spending, and fast-tracking fossil fuel projects, meaning next time the debt ceiling comes around again and a Democrat is in the White House, they will pull this shit again.

And once again, we are not able to raise taxes on rich people. When I think of how we used to tax the shit out of rich people in the mid-20th century, it frustrates me to no end that the Overton window has shifted so that we keep negotiating on Republicans' terms.

Biden is a smart dealmaker, and I trust him in this case. Based on what I've seen, I'm not sure anyone "won" or "lost." This agreement just... is...

Your opinion is fair, and thank you for being unafraid to not simply fall in line. We love our Joe Biden, and I understand why Democrats on this board want to be protective of him, but the knee-jerk dismissal of your post is... weird. Someone above questioned whether you even voted for Hillary or one of the Russian-sponsored candidates. Cult-like, if you ask me.

[tritsofme]

46. I'm not surprised so many people dismissed OP, it's nonsensical drivel.

That doesn’t offer any solution. It’s ok to be disappointed, but it’s not ok to pretend there is some sort of magic wand to waive.

[Cha]

53. Mahalo, tritsofme! I'm grateful so

many appreciate What Pres Biden was able to do for us and Hopefully raise the fucking stupid debt ceiling.

I suppose some would like PJB to stubbornly not compromise on Anything and cause the ceiling to collapse and we would NOT get our SS checks for ONE THING and the Economy would BLOW.. would they be HAPPY THEN?!

[betsuni]

47. Another "Why don't Democrats stop Republicans? "Democrats cave/are weak/don't fight/don't know

what they're doing/don't try/give in (there are easy simple solutions lying around everywhere so there must be a nefarious reason why they "don't try" ). Always assume bad intentions, that Democrats ignore The People, assume no work is being done, and if there is evidence of it, bush it off as not good enough.

The U.S. people voted for those Republicans. The People. The Will of The People.

Maybe "bipartisan" and "compromise" have changed meanings. What does it mean now?

[Progressive dog]

48. I don't think I lost

In fact, I think we won. Destroying the economy would not be a win for us.

[lindysalsagal]

50. Ours is a compromise government.

[Takket]

52. The concessions we made are minor in comparision to the consequences of failure

Biden did a great job.

[yardwork]

56. What did you think would happen when the Republicans took control of the House?

What did you think would happen when Trump got elected in 2016 and got to appoint three Supreme Court Justices?

Did you think the Republicans wouldn't do Republican things?

What are you going to do about it?

[Kaleva]

60. You may have lost. Will you just accept your defeat?

I think you will.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

64. I just love these hit and run threads.

You post a controversial thread and then don't come back to defend your position.

Makes me wonder what your true agenda here is.

[Cha]

66. You noticed that, too.. TY!

[ProfessorGAC]

72. Not One Follow-Up

And, you were the 64th post!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

73. IKR?

This just leads me to believe that the OP is not interested in other's opinions and has an agenda.

[ProfessorGAC]

74. You'd Certainly Think That

In fact, how could we NOT think that?

[Tarc]

67. You're basically salivating over Jill Stein-like talking points

Calm down, stop reading tabloids and Newsweek.

[Demsrule86]

68. We don't have the House...we were lucky to get this deal and you are wrong.

It is a good deal.

[GenThePerservering]

70. WAAAAHHH! It failed the purity test!

Joe pantsed them - and from a very tough position. It's OK not to like the final outcome completely - that's your perfect right and it could have been better, yes, in a perfect world, but we are right now in a very imperfect world and in a crap timeline.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

76. Please don't presume to speak for me

You don't.

Is it a great deal? No, but it's better than I expected with this bunch of loons in the traitor party.

Sometimes, you have to deal with the reality you have, not the fantasy you want.

[FSogol]

77. Game over, man, GAME OVER!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

78. So, just a question,

but why won't you come back and defend your position on a thread you started?

This smacks of trolling, which is not a good look for you.