What is the problem with the Democratic Party?

[senseandsensibility]

And by problem, I mean why does a completely immoral loser like tfg and his ilk have a chance against us? Is it anything we are doing, or is it out of our control? And if we are responsible for any of it, is it because we complain too much and are too loud? Or is it that we are too quiet and nice?

Honestly, I can see an argument for being too quiet and nice and even for the whole thing being out of our control because of the media narrative. Being too loud and complaining too much? I don't see it.

[NewHendoLib]

1. It is the decades long power of right wing media.

We don't have nearly the equivalent.

Thus the right wing cult is created.

[senseandsensibility]

2. I tend to agree with you.

And it is funded by billionaires who want tax cuts.

[NewHendoLib]

5. This. Always comes to money - even when religion is involved

[CentralMass]

8. They want more the just tax cuts. They want absolute power and

don't give a damn about the welfare of the country. They are an oligarchy.

[Initech]

10. It is absolutely the media.

The republicans have multiple channels running 24 / 7, now they're actively targeting college and high school students. Democrats have like one or two, and our attempts to create anything even remotely capable of competing with Fox News and AM talk radio have been laughable at best. We definitely need to step it up to combat the hate.

[senseandsensibility]

12. Yes we do

but unfortunately, that takes money. And the real money is owned by the billionaires who want the republicans to win for their own self interest.

[Tree Lady]

21. And slowly taking over rural areas

and small cities and state offices controlling elections. Changing the congressional maps and doing so slowly so we didn't really notice it as much until they have more than us now and not from population of dems.

And no regulation on social media.

[senseandsensibility]

27. Good points

Both the gerrymandering and the rural talk radio explain a lot.

[emulatorloo]

3. Blaming Democrats for What Republicans Do. A DU favorite.

You understand Republicans have agency, right? And multiple powerful propaganda outlets?

This is what you choose to post after Trump is indicted in the documents case?

Unrec.

[senseandsensibility]

4. Thanks.

I am thrilled about him being indicted. I am responding to what seems to be an ongoing discussion about whether we should criticize the Democratic party, how much, for what, etc. Not crazy about criticizing our side, and I don't have any history of doing it. In fact, I didn't do so in this thread.

[emulatorloo]

32. Thanks for your reply. From my perspective I see a lot of fact-free speculation bordering on

conspiracy theory being characterized as ‘criticism’ of Democrats and the Biden admin.

Constructive criticism makes a hell of a lot of sense for us, especially if it is based on facts and includes suggestions/solutions. Sounds like we are likely in agreement.

[betsuni]

35. Murc's law: only Democrats have agency and influence in politics.

Why didn't they stop Republicans? is the constant refrain. Thinking Democrats could easily fix everything but secretly don't want to because both sides are the same.

[LakeArenal]

6. Same as the stereotype of Canadians. We are too nice and play fair.

Rules of law are only for those who obey them.

[senseandsensibility]

9. You know, I don't really mind that we are nice and play

by the rules. We should do that. BUT we should be proud and loud about and demand credit for it.

[LakeArenal]

23. I hear you but I think people should listen more.

To Katie Porter, Hakeem Jeffries, AOC, Swawell, Moskowitz, Raskin, Buttigieg, Biden many others I don’t know their names yet.

The are speaking out. They all make mincemeat out of Republicans everyday.

[JHB]

11. It lacks a dedicated propaganda arm

The Republicans have benefited from the conservative media complex (Rush and RW radio, FOX, but not just FOX: throughout different forms of media there have been an entire spectrum of media funded by an array of zealots with too much goddamn money to burn).

Any attempt to build anything like that on the liberal/left side of the spectrum has been squelched or pissed on. No funders or people who can get funders to fork over money have prioritized it.

Every bit of "Democrats are bad at messaging" arguments trace back to this. The Right has volume, and the non-Right has didly-squat in terms of people who actually can hear counter-messaging.

[senseandsensibility]

14. I agree that the media

is more responsible than anything else. It's a real problem.

[LakeArenal]

24. Ditto

[Eko]

31. If we start using propaganda then I would have major problems with that.

[emulatorloo]

33. Totally agree. Republicans lie to people. Democrats need to keep telling the truth, as we always

do.

[JHB]

40. propaganda. prŏp″ə-găn′də

-The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
-Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause.
-Systematic effort to propagate or win support for a theory or method of action.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

The word has become associated with lying, so I used it when comparing to Republicans, but it doesn't mean lying. A messaging system is badly needed, since mainstream outlets go to extremes to avoid claims of "liberal bias".

[Eko]

41. Here is another definition.

propaganda, dissemination of information—facts, arguments, rumours, half-truths, or lies—to influence public opinion.

Propaganda is the more or less systematic effort to manipulate other people’s beliefs, attitudes, or actions by means of symbols (words, gestures, banners, monuments, music, clothing, insignia, hairstyles, designs on coins and postage stamps, and so forth). Deliberateness and a relatively heavy emphasis on manipulation distinguish propaganda from casual conversation or the free and easy exchange of ideas.
Encyclopaedia Britannica

And another one.
propaganda

1
capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2
: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3
: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause
also : a public action having such an effect
merriam-webster


Just a FYI, the American Heritage® Dictionary is owned by News Corp, Rupert Murdoch, the Fox news guy so,,,,,,

[JHB]

39. Would you prefer the term "messaging arm" or "media outlets"?

Or do you prefer we just stay "bad at messaging" from lack of bandwidth?

[Eko]

42. Its not bad messaging.

I'm sure you have heard A Lie Is Halfway Round the World Before the Truth Has Got Its Boots On. Also, doing the good things like feeding people, infrastructure work, ensuring minorities have the same rights are not exciting things for most of America. It's just the message by its nature of doing good and taking care of people is not as exciting and addicting as using fear like the other party does. Would you prefer we use fear like they do? If not exactly how are you going to make the fact that insulin no longer costs so much for people on Medicare exciting? Have a monster truck rally about it? Put it on the roofs of nascar cars? Make a movie where Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger get attacked by ninjas while they are lobbying for the bill? I'm joking but really how would you make that reach the people other than the 4 million that it will affect?

[betsuni]

44. +1

[bottomofthehill]

13. A lot of it is because we care about the people in the shadows of life.

And in trying to help the often forgotten side groups who need our help we sometimes miss the big picture that the middle wants. Once that happens, the republicans pounce in full bully mode and we are fucked. We double down and look more the fool and the middle moves further right. We scare people, unfortunately it’s often for the right reasons.

[senseandsensibility]

17. You make some really good points

but to me, that is a strength. Or at least we should try to present it as a strength. I agree that that is very difficult to do in practice.

[dflprincess]

15. We wasted too much time playing by the old rules

Thinking if we were civilized they would be too

The last time the DFL had complete control in Minnesota we made the same mistake. Lesson learned. There is no compromise with today's Republicans. If the DFL could pass it, they did.

[senseandsensibility]

16. Yeah, they threw fits and acted like babies

and the media rewards them for it.

[Paladin]

20. +1000.

I've been griping about this trait in Democrats for decades. The fascists use our good nature and decency against us, every chance they get. I've tapered off on my complaining, because it hasn't made any difference.

[IcyPeas]

18. His rally today seems to be dominating the news. This is what he knows how to do.

I'm wondering which story has had more mentions... the news about the indictment or his rally today.

A few weeks ago there was a mass shooting in Allen Texas where 9 people were killed (shooter included). It was a big story for a minute. Shooter was even wore a RWDS (right wing death squad). See paragraph about his political beliefs:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Allen,_Texas_outlet_mall_shooting

Then the verdict from the E. Jean Caroll came out and the media all ran to that story.

Then CNN had their trump town hall and the media all ran over to that story.

I mean, if he did shoot somebody on 5th Avenue he would probably hold a rally the next day and everone would forget that he shot someone.

Makes me sick.

[senseandsensibility]

19. You're right

Depressing.

[Tetrachloride]

22. Dems don't try to go on Social media and TV as much as Republicans

[ananda]

25. Wrong question. What's wrong with people who vote Republican?

They are VERY VERY damaged just to hold that much hate and bile.

Dems are fine!

[senseandsensibility]

26. I don't disagree

but that's out of our control. Should we try to do something about it, or not? If there's nothing we can do about them, I guess ignoring them is our best option?

[Beautiful Disaster]

28. Everyone in this thread is offering up the wrong answer.

It's because we're a two-party state. You either have to support Trump or the Democrats.

if you're a conservative, it would be hard to support the Democrat.

It would never happen because the Democrats tend to have some morals but imagine if the party nominated a liberal version of Donald Trump - he'd likely get 40% of the vote just because he's the Democrat and the alternative is ... a Republican.

And there's no point in voting third party because third parties are a joke and irrelevant. If we had a parliamentary situation like, say, the UK, Trump wouldn't have a prayer. But we don't.

[Mysterian]

29. Propaganda works

Rich fascists own the networks.

[Eko]

30. Throughout history there has been a sizeable part of the population that is susceptible to being

controlled by fear. There are many many examples of this. Look at Stalin, Nazi Germany, the rise of fascism in Europe even today. Even us after 9-11. England and the US during WW2. Shoot, we put Japanese Americans in concentration camps. We had a huge nazi party in New York before WW2. You can see videos of it on youtube. 200,000 Americans attended it. We are not immune. It is not the media, it is not our party, it is US. Those in our country that are all to eager to eat the fear and lies up to feel better and safer and dont care a bit who it hurts. Some of them like that it hurts others. For us to reach them we would also have to use fear and that would make us them and if that happens we are doomed. That's our problem. We are good. I do not see that as a problem though. Not even in the slightest. That's our strength and it may seem such a small one but over the years we have been winning. This country is so much better than it was when I was born. My Mom couldn't even get a bank account then. Marrying anyone other than the opposite sex was illegal. There were still sundown towns. So many things that are better now because of our party. Its not perfect but it is good. It is very good.
Eko.

[WarGamer]

34. Nothing wrong with the Democratic Party.

You need to step back and look at the situation more broadly.

There is no and can't be a "mono-culture" in the USA....

In fact, we should probably be 5-6 different countries.

People aren't going to believe the same things just like Spain doesn't want to be the UK and Poland doesn't want to be in Russia.

The Left sees the right as a rising tide of Fascism.

The Right sees the left as a rising tide of Authoritarianism.

Perceptions differ...

We will NEVER be a single united country. I'm not sure if we EVER have been... other than brief periods of war.

[flvegan]

36. We've maintained the most dry powder ever. n/t

[betsuni]

37. Americans either not voting because "both sides" "my vote doesn't count" or voting for a radicalized

post-policy 100% obstructionist corrupt Taliban-like party with the only goal destroying the Democratic Party and turning the U.S. into a Banana Republic is the fault of Democrats?

How exactly? These are the usual:

Why doesn't the DNC turn on its magic unlimited funding faucet and fund all Democrats in every race across the U.S.? If they did, Democrats would totally win even in deep red districts!

If only Democrats just say the right magic words and slogans explaining things, voters who don't vote for Democrats would suddenly be like: OMG I'm totally voting against my own economic interests, I'll stop voting for Republicans because of culture wars and imagining immigrants and minorities are getting all the free stuff and jobs and advantages in the U.S. because white people are discriminated against!

Why don't Democrats stop Fox News and right-wing media empire? All they have to do is get wealthy donors to finance it! (oh, suddenly wealthy donors and billionaires are OK and not all right-wingers busy beholdening Democrats with bribes).

Why didn't Democrats fix everything in America in two years even though they didn't have the votes, not having large enough majorities? Must be because they didn't want to!

Democrats are coastal elites. (As if cities aren't full of people who move there from small towns and cities and suburbs from all over the country and the world, as if they have no rural relatives, as if there are no working class in cities, as if Democratic presidents like Carter and Clinton weren't Southern working class, Obama Hawaii/midwest middle class, Hillary Clinton midwestern middle class, Biden working class. Al Gore came from a wealthy upper class family like FDR -- does that mean they can't be progressive? Gore's climate change work didn't happen? Who are all these elites constantly insulting rural people? An Obama or Hillary quote taken out of context?) Republicans never say mean things about Democrats, of course.

Democrats are too naive/stupid/spineless to understand that Republicans are bad. They need constant threats and insults to pull/push them to the Left, otherwise they'll cave/give in and be Republicans.

And of course the myth that Democrats have no economic policy and ignore the working class because hopelessly beholden to Wall Street and corporations (while in reality the working class votes Democratic, in this case it always means white rural people in swing states). White rurals are forced to vote Republican because of economic anxiety, all Democrats' fault:

"Trump's victory was not a victory for Trump or his ideology. It was a gross failure of the Democratic Party. ... There are people in this country who are hurting, and they are hurting terribly. And for years they looked to the Democratic Party, which at one time was the party of the working people, and they looked and they looked and they looked and they got nothing in return. And out of desperation they turned to Donald Trump." (No, white people began leaving the Democratic Party in the '60s when there were high wages, plenty of manufacturing jobs, union membership, and LBJ had strengthened the social safety net. They became Republicans because of culture wars and identity, not economic anxiety. The idea is absurd.)

When Americans carefully study the policies of both parties and vote on that, when Democrats have the presidency and large FDR-like majorities in Congress for eight years and are just like Republicans, then go ahead and blame Democrats. Until then, what is this even about? What are people imagining?

[Demsrule86]

38. Please..Trashing

[radius777]

43. The perception that we are for open borders and weak on crime

IMO hurts much more than all of the woke/anti-woke hysteria that the media focuses on. Inflation is hurting us also, as many voters only care about bread and butter concerns and not 'politics'. If the price of eggs or gas is high they blame whoever is in power.

We're also perceived as soft on the Trump criminals - this indictment (and Jack Smith) helps improve our image. As Bill Clinton once said, 'Strong and wrong beats weak and right'. It's always better to be perceived as strong even if it means coming under criticism for being authoritarian or partisan or whatever. Voters like to associate themselves with the winning team. That's part of Trump's allure, despite everything he does, he's viewed as a fighter and many voters like that. Trump is overly reckless however - if he was more disciplined he likely would've retained the presidency as incumbents rarely lose.

Note, Dems are still infinitely better than the Republicans or any third party like the Greens etc - so this is simply constructive criticism to help the party improve.

Biden has done a fairly good job considering the mess he came into, and I think will be reelected.

[JI7]

45. A large number of people in this country are racist, sexist, anti gay

and other bigots.

It's not just Trump. look at the people that get elected in other elections.