Weissmann & Goodman: Jack Smith's Backup Option

[Nevilledog]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/06/trump-indictment-florida-new-jersey-classified/674393/

No paywall
https://archive.is/Ln3g6

Even before last Thursday’s indictment in United States v. Donald Trump, public speculation swirled about whether the former president had taken classified documents not just to Mar-a-Lago but also to his residence and golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. The indictment answered that question with a bang while presenting a new puzzle about why Trump isn’t facing even steeper charges.

According to the Justice Department and a taped recording of the former president, Trump took classified records from Mar-a-Lago to Bedminster, where he showed off the contents of such records to others. The indictment alleges that Trump showed a map to a political ally and also showed a writer and a publisher a secret military plan to attack Iran. These two episodes were arguably the most egregious allegations of criminal wrongdoing mentioned in the indictment; they allege not just the improper retention of our nation’s most highly classified information, but the intentional communication of such information.

But these two allegations raise a question: Why did Special Counsel Jack Smith charge Trump with illegal retention of classified documents but not with dissemination of such materials? And is that decision final, or could dissemination charges still be in the works?

Trump’s Bedminster conduct, as described in the indictment, appears to fit the description of two federal offenses designed to keep America’s national-security secrets safe. One makes it a crime to intentionally communicate national-defense information to people not authorized to receive it, and the other makes it a crime to intentionally disclose classified information to the same. These are more serious crimes than willful retention of such documents, which is done to prevent possible leakage. Deliberate dissemination is the leakage itself.

*snip*

[edhopper]

1. Maybe those charges

will come from the DC Grand Jury?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

3. There may be a NJ Grand Jury we don't know about

The MSM media, court watchers and "experts" completely missed what was going on in Florida until a day or two before the indictments.

[Ocelot II]

5. A lot could be, and probably is, happening that we don't know about.

[Marius25]

7. Wouldn't we have heard about a search of Bedminster though?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

8. Maybe? We didn't hear about the Miami GJ until they issued indictments

It's also possible that it hasn't been searched yet, as they are trying to get the valet to flip to provide concrete evidence.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. Thought I read they didn't have enough probable cause

To search NJ ?

[Trueblue Texan]

30. It has to be fresh evidence, not more than a year old...nt

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

44. Not if the search came under a FISA warrant

Those are secret, and nobody is allowed to talk about even the issuing of the warrant, or the search itself. Not even the subject of the warrant and search can talk about it.

If Bedminster was a FISA search, then Smith had to have reasonable evidence that TFG was acting as the agent of a foreign power.

Or a slim chance exists that the idiot did indeed get a standard search warrant for Bedminster, but what the feds were looking for made him look so bad he said nothing, to keep the bad publicity for it at bay. Or he didn't want the same blowback he got for the MAL search.

But that's a very slim chance with a guy who doesn't know much about shutting up--unless he's forced to shut up.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. Smith is leaning on Nauta, whose pleading is delayed 2 weeks to find FL lawyer

Nauta was involved in trips to Bedminster, naturally, but could probably have much to spill if he wises up. tRump won't protect him forever and payment for the lawyer might be problematic.

He had Stanley Woodward with him, but Woodward couldn't address the court.

June 27. Mark the date.

Ivana's ashes feel a breeze on the urn in the giant coffin buried at Bedminster.

[OMGWTF]

15. Ivana was pushed IMO. Too many coincidences to be a coincidence.

Ivana's death gets Traitor Tot and his evil spawn out of depositions, then there's the matter of TEN struggling men trying to lift the coffin containing her cremated remains, then she's buried in a temporary-looking grave in the same place where the Saudis have a fake golf tournament one week later, and then the Saudis "invest" $2B in Jerod's new company. It stinks.

https://politizoom.com/what-the-hell-is-in-ivanas-casket/

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

45. This is as crazy as QAnon conspiracies

Ten ushers for a small casket are what made it unsteady. I saw a funeral with twelve of them where the casket was dropped. Because too many ushers makes it harder--not easier--to carry a coffee. Anymore than 6-8 for a standard adult coffin, and you're asking for trouble.

[Ocelot II]

4. Interesting, and it does seem to explain why we haven't heard more about Bedminster.

3-dimensional chess by Jack Smith?

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. Not chess

It’s a case of “don’t put all your eggs in one basket”.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

12. Indictment done! Superseding indictment attaching sale of national of secrets will be a breeze.

[sarcasmo]

6. Charge what you can prove.

[live love laugh]

17. THIS 👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽 a 1,000x THIS

[Laura PourMeADrink]

20. Get that. But thought it was already in indictment

That he disseminated. And this article said it happened at Bedminster. So obviously people have spoken out. Maybe I'm confused. Scanning stuff quickly.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

46. Or it could be that he's going with the case he's got wrapped up

And this other is part of an ongoing case he has enough to indict on--but not the complete story yet. He'd rather indict when he has all of that part of the crime sewn up.

That happens, too. You can get a guy for armed robbery, but if you have some evidence he's a serial killer, too, you may hold off on the latter until you have a more complete picture of that crime.

[relayerbob]

9. I sure wish folks would look at the overall strategy

They started with the petty offenses of his followers, and have used each as a building block to the next set of charges for people higher up in the food chain. The crime of keeping the documents was in the Florida jurisdiction, so it makes sense to execute the indictments there. Dissemination is something that is handled in DC, so the Grand Jury there, seeing the strong indictments in the Florida case, now have a stronger baseline for asking "where did these documents go?" This isn't over by any means, we are just getting warmed up.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

21. Thanks!

[Bev54]

10. They are not the only ones who think that these are not the end.

Marcy Wheeler of Empty Wheel, along with others think this may be a tactical charge for Jack Smith and further charges will be made in DC or NJ. I really hope there is more to come and not just our wishful thinking. I am wondering if they are not working on more evidence on dissemination of documents to others, including foreign governments.

I am just going to sit back and wait, too many times I have my hopes up that Trump will truly go down with all we suspect he has done, but to be disappointed over and over. I trust Jack Smith but I also trusted Mueller and while he was not able to finish and I know the circumstances are different, I guess I just want it all over with.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. Good point! If he showed to two he showed to 200

Does it matter if he was prez or not? I mean with regard to showing classified docs?

Don't forget he showed military maps to Kid Rock - but he was "prez" then

[Bev54]

23. Yes because as pres he could de-classify like he did the top secret info the Russians in

the oval office. He has no defence after he left though.

[InstantGratification]

28. Not just declassification though

As president, declassification isn't the only method of sharing classified information with someone who doesn't have a clearance. If he thinks you or I could add something of value to some classified project, he could simply order that we be "read in" to that project and we could legally see info related to that project (and only that project).

As a private citizen, he does not have the authority to do that and would be illegally be disseminating classified information. I'm sure that is part of what the special council is looking for and probably already has it.

Whichever aide recorded him talking about not being allowed to show documents because they were secret and he no longer had the authority to declassify them, that person is a hot commodity. They can confirm what was said on the tape and identify WHO else was there. Those folks would then be interviewed and could be called as witnesses.

[Bev54]

29. That, I believe is Molly Michael and I have said before she is the one that Jack Smith should

be trying to flip, if he hasn't already. She is the next Cassidy Hutchinson.

[intrepidity]

32. I thought the recording was by Meadows biographer, Margo something?

Or was on Meadows laptop. I may be confused though, too many moving parts.

But I do agree about Michael being a good flip target.

[Bev54]

34. My understanding that the entire interview was recorded by Molly Michael as she did with all

interviews Trump did with authors. She did it at Trump's bidding so he could counter if they lied in the books. I am not sure if they have the recordings from her or from the writer but The articles I have read, it was from Michael's tapes.

[Nevilledog]

37. Classification status has no relevance to the 31 Espionage Act charges.

All that must be proven is that the documents contained national defense information. The act was written in 1917 before there was even a classification process.

[InstantGratification]

38. You're exactly right

My main point was to highlight the difference in authority between President Trump and Citizen Trump and why that matters in the documents case. That he showed things to Kid Rock was reckless. That he continued doing that after he was out of office was criminal.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

40. Thank you.. excellent information. If the aide

Works at Mara Lago, they said that every single person was interviewed

[rubbersole]

13. I'd guess that yesterday was the tip of the Jack Smith iceberg.

The orange Russian asset is going to go through some things.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. Some of the analysts on MSNBC yesterday mentioned that "venue" thing again

and particularly Bedminster, which is in North Jersey. Meaning there could conceivably be a grand jury called up in the District of New Jersey (with Bedminster being near Newark, so probably coming out of the courthouse there).

The main thing when it comes to stuff like this is scope creep and being able to manage it effectively.

[ancianita]

16. Smith has been way out ahead of everyone, and would never ignore Bedminster crime evidence.

We'll find out when he files a different indictment under the Espionage Act.

[Cha]

25. The graphic is perfect.. TY

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. Did you hear his presser after indictment?

First time I'd ever heard him speak but after seeing all the dark and serious pics thought he'd sound like Vincent Price . He didn't, sounded like guy next door.

[Cha]

42. Yes I did and loved it.. I got

chills from the content.. Jack the Knife Smith speaks softly and carries a big stick.. to borrow from Teddy Roosevelt.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

43. Amen!

[Spazito]

33. That is SO perfect!

[summer_in_TX]

19. Very impressed with the Special Counsel and the Garland DOJ!

The current 37 charges being filed in Florida shows proper following of correct procedure on venues, but the potential charges not filed give the DOJ a way to get around any attempt of Judge Cannon's to set the trial date after the election. They can file charges in NJ on dissemination of classified info, which is the proper venue since that's where those crimes took place.

Either way, the Espionage Act violations will be tried – almost certainly before the 2024 election.

A South Florida grand jury indicted him first on 37 counts, which is such a great counter to claims that Biden / D.C. / Dems are engaged in a partisan prosecution.

[ancianita]

26. +1

[Hekate]

24. KnR

[bucolic_frolic]

27. "intentionally communicate ... intentionally disclose"

Two rather close intents.

[usaf-vet]

31. I am not an attorney. I'm just an Veteran and a U.S. Citizen. So I am concerned.

I am concerned about this one line from the Atlantic article.

The government usually tries to avoid being seen as piling on, at least in such a high-profile matter.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/06/trump-indictment-florida-new-jersey-classified/674393/

The GQP is piling on in their attempt to destroy our Democracy and dismantle our Constitution one brick at a time.

Our side always seems to bring a knife to a gunfight. Look where being nice and playing by rules has gotten us.

At the very least, if Trump were to get re-elected.

We can kiss our Democracy goodbye. Say hello to Autocracy!

I say pile on and hit him with EVERY tool in the tool kit.

Remember Mueller he was going to turn the tide. Yet we are still slowly drowning.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-mueller-investigation-explained-2/

[ancianita]

35. I feel you about the knife to a gunfight, though we've proven otherwise of late.

Considering how much we've won in the last three years, I think this "knife to a gunfight" narrative might have been true with Obama/Holder, but it is absolutely not true anymore. We have been fair, which has been interpreted as weak. Yet we keep winning, and don't forget, much of it is because of Republican sources in the Jan 6 hearings and in the Smith indictments.

Trump is 0 for 70 court cases against us because our "knife" is rule of law.

One more thing to please consider.

Trump can't win in 2024.

He didn't have the numbers in the highest 2020 turnout in history, and he won't again.

Everyone keeps hyping the hypothetical that he can win. He can't.

This "delay until he's president" is media bullshit.

[usaf-vet]

47. MAN!! I do want to believe you are right. But a lot of us believe TFG couldn't win in 2016. He did.

The "experts" on our side all say the same thing.

I. Even if he loses, he will claim he won, and the bullshit will start all over again.

2. GQP plans to claim in every race they win, even if they lose.

The body politic has systemic cancer. Each MAGA individual is a cancer cell wandering through the "body politic."

Metastasizing every weakened individual that its immune system can't reject.

The "MAGIC bullet" to fight off the metastasis has yet to be discovered.

How many people died of Covid even with the available scientific vaccine one shot away?

God, I hope you are right because if Trump should escape incarceration and is free to wander.

We won't get a second chance to eradicate the Trumpian Cancer.

[ancianita]

49. I don't want to be right. I just want rule of law to win. So far, it has. Hasn't it?

I love your cancer-in-the-body-politic analogy.
To the Trump side, we're the commie carcinoma, as well.

That doesn't mean that cancer cells don't run freely around a body politic all the time. They do. Listen to Maddow's podcasts of recovered and foregrounded US history that shows a cancer on the body politic has been on the loose for at least a century.

All along, the T-cells of law enforcement and the judiciary have kept the body healthy, or when it's sick, restore it to functionality. We can't afford, as in the old days, to just "walk it out" anymore. Because it's the oldest democratic body politic on the planet and is maybe suffering from old age.

What we really need to worry about is whether this Cannon will be medically sound.
And what if -- in spite of the national security threat that he has blown up -- she's not?
She could decide to not. sentence. him. at. all. No matter what the Florida jury finds him guilty of.
She is supposed to uphold rule of law, but will she?
Why should we even have a District Judge with only 14 total days in trial? What the hell kind of legal treatment would that even bring?!

(Hell, now I'm even scaring myself considering all the judicial power she could use to keep this clear and present danger out in the world. )

If Trumpinoma were incarcerated, do you really believe prison would be the cure?
Sure, unlike Reality Winner he'll likely be free to be irresponsible with his freedom.
But that doesn't mean his loss, harm and damage will stand.
That's what is at stake here -- national security harm and damage.

Will Jack Smith continue new indictments of espionage at Bedminster? Jan 6? Absolutely, and with probably more success than in Florida (as solid as his treatment plan really is, injudicious judges can add insult to injury). So yes, we will get second chances.

The rumors of Trump winning the presidency are irresponsible media hype. He can't win.
He didn't have the national numbers in 2020 (all time record of voting, remember?) and he won't in 2024, either. That 7,000,000 million margin Biden beat him by is still out there.

I just don't want to scare myself about hypotheticals. A pre-trial hearing hasn't even been set yet. Lots of stuff is going on between the Jack Smith team and the 11th Circuit, and even between the 11th Circuit and Cannon, even before pre-trial motions at that hearing. (IIRC, this right now is the only time Jack Smith's team can make motions, and maybe during the trial, directly to the 11th Circuit.) Things are still fluid. Their team is still out-manned and out-gunned by our side. Smith has been way ahead of everyone every step of the battle.

Crying makes others cry; fearing makes others fear. My position is to stay focused on wh at works about all this, take Jack Smith's and Biden's lead, go by the best legal minds, the probabilities, but not scary hypotheticals.

Do we really want to look at one broken limb of our body politic and worry that we'll die? I prefer to remember what Atticus said in To Kill a Mockingbird: "It's not time to worry yet."

Love and solidarity, usaf-vet.

[usaf-vet]

52. I agree so far, the rule of law has won. But all we have done, IMO, is excise the defined tumor....

..... but what about the margins. It's the margins that can repeatedly come back and continue the metastasis.

To quote you,

"That's what is at stake here -- national security harm and damage."

I agree again.

But to use an often-made point. Trump only has to win ONCE; to establish his desired autocracy, we must win EVERY TIME to maintain our Democracy.

Until we know for sure, if possible, how much damage he has done with the classified documents. Likely being sold to feed his psychopathic addiction to money, we will never know how much damage he has done to our national security.

The powers of the law and wonders of medical science have yet to find a definitive way to stop the metastasis.

To your final point and with respect

Atticus said in To Kill a Mockingbird: "It's not time to worry yet."

To Kill a Mockingbird is an excellent work of fiction; this is a real-life fight to save our Democracy. We have to win every time!

Boo Radley was a perceived threat by the children of a neighbor next door. Trump's MAGA cult is a national threat.

[ancianita]

53. You don't think Garland's DOJ has treated this cancer across 50 states enough to

cause even a partial remission?

https://www.justice.gov/file/1586716/downloads

https://seditiontracker.com/suspects/by_state

You use a cancer analogy. I use a literary analogy. I quote a novel character from the most banned book. The "wannabe dictator" in the White House is MAGA media's Boo Radley. So are rest of us 'woke' folk. In the end we're not just saving Atticus' innocent children from the fearful, violent hater of Black people away from the courts they answer to, we're enforcing rule of law. As the commander-in-chief says, we're in the battle for the soul of America.

Fiction is a lie that tells a truth. No one depends on fiction for agency except for MAGA and their bible. It's used
-- to justify Trump's military force on DC protestors,
-- by state and federal MAGA leaders and right wing oligarch funders to obliterate constitutional rights of more than 51% of the country.
-- to justify vigiante violence against LGBTQ, Jews, Muslims, and even the unregulated militias.

No matter how we put it, we agree that in the real world MAGA is a national threat, not just a cancer.

So far in the oldest, largest democracy, rule of law conviction rates for the attempted coup are 99.999% across 50 states.
Those hundreds upon hundreds of wins and the 2020 win are the way we fight.
The whole world is watching how we fight for justice and rule of law.

There is no settling democracy once and for all.

[H2O Man]

36. Recommended.

As Karen Carpenter sang, "We've only just begun."

[Danascot]

39. There is speculation that

Jack Smith has had human assets and electronic surveillance at Bedminister for some time gathering information that could lead to additional charges for Trump and others. Smith may have held off on searching for classified material at Bedminister as part of that effort.

If they have him sharing, accessing or hiding classified materials in a dozen instances it makes a stronger case than if they have him doing it once or twice.

[usaf-vet]

48. IF, IF, IF. If I win the Megajackpot I could be a billionaire. A hell of a gamble.

[ancianita]

50. Actually it's very likely that the FISA Court would approve such a move from the DOJ, given

the national security threat that distributing/disseminating those documents could pose to the nation.

I'd bet that Smith got a FISA court ruling, and since FISA rulings are classified, the public and press can't know until he files an indictment.

[pecosbob]

51. IIRC Smith still has a grand jury seated in DC looking into multiple avenues of criminality

In addition to the documents case there is still the Jan 6 attempt to subvert the election as well as possible wire fraud charges for his 'Big Steal' grifting. My understanding is that more indictments will follow. But I'm just a nobody without access to inside information.