The Western Media Is Whitewashing the Azov Battalion

[WhiskeyGrinder]

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/azov-battalion-neo-nazi/

By 2021, the Azov Movement’s position as a premier hub of transnational white supremacy was firmly established. It was tracked by researchers; its fighters were banned from receiving military aid by Congress; and it was kicked off Facebook. The State Department declared its political wing a “nationalist hate group.” Journalists exposed its enlistment of fighters from Sweden to Australia.

Then came Russia’s invasion. Within months, many of these same institutions had plunged into an Orwellian stampede to persuade the West that Ukraine’s neo-Nazi regiment was suddenly not a problem.

(snip)

Azov’s US tour was initially reported by researcher Moss Robeson. The group made stops in Washington, D.C., and in New Jersey, where its soldiers—including a founder of the original battalion—met with Senators Rick Scott and Todd Young and Representatives Pete Sessions, Dan Crenshaw, Adam Schiff, and Michael Waltz, among others.

Then came Stanford University, which welcomed Azov even though seven months earlier its own program for tracking extremism had published an exhaustive study detailing Azov’s Nazi ties. The event was attended by Michael McFaul, a former US ambassador to Russia and an adherent of the “Azov has been denazified” myth, who stood in front of a projection of its Wolfsangel insignia.

[Ray Bruns]

1. We also partnered with Stalin in WWII. War and politics make strange bedfellows.

[radius777]

43. Exactly. All movements for freedom

have had unsavory factions/strains, which does not invalidate the overall objective.

Our focus should be on the attacker (Russia) not the imperfection of the victim (Ukraine).

Ukrainians are suffering and dying at the hands of Russia and their illegal invasion on a daily basis and articles/narratives like these only serve to undercut support for Ukraine and empower Putin.

[former9thward]

56. Except we are not at war.

We are not at war in Ukraine or anyplace else. There is no comparison with WW II.

[Torchlight]

71. Lend Lease Act provided munitions, food, and fuel to Moscow prior to

America's involvement in the war.

[former9thward]

72. The Lend Lease Act required payback becuause of neutrality.

And those countries did payback. The Soviet Union in 1971 and the UK in 2006. The aid to Ukraine has no payback. It is not the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#:~:text=Supplies%20that%20arrived%20after%20the,of%20the%20debt%20written%20off.

[Torchlight]

73. Of the $68 billion US provided to Ukraine to date

Last edited Thu Jun 15, 2023, 03:12 PM - Edit history (1)

$41 billion is scheduled for repayment. As of May 2022, much of the aid Washington is sending is via the Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022.

(source: CSIS)

[former9thward]

75. Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe.

And that was before the war. No one expects they will ever pay back a nickel. But this is all besides the point. We are not at war with anyone as I stated before.

[Torchlight]

76. Nor was the US when it provided Lend Lease to Russia as I stated before.

Goal posts should more often than not, remain stationary.

[radius777]

89. The west is in a proxy war with Russia.

We don't expect any repayment - just as FDR didn't expect Great Britain to repay us. "You are fighting for all of us" is what he told Churchill, and Biden (and other western leaders) likely feels similarly towards Zelensky.

[former9thward]

90. Maybe FDR didn't expect repayment but Congress did.

Great Britain had to agree to repay and they finally made the last payment in 2006.

I don't believe in proxy wars because they turn into forever wars with no end game like Iraq and Afghanistan which were lost when the American people lost patience.

[niyad]

2. Link, please???

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. added

[niyad]

4. Thank you.

[uponit7771]

5. Didn't Azov change a lot by time the war started?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. According to the article, no; that's the whitewash.

[The Magistrate]

7. It's War: These People Are Fit To Die As Anyone Else

[Alexander Of Assyria]

12. Side by side fighting common enemy, Nazis and Democracy lovers alike? No thanks!?

Acid and water.
I am going with Stanfords exhaustive study…


Then came Stanford University, which welcomed Azov even though seven months earlier its own program for tracking extremism had published an exhaustive study detailing Azov’s Nazi ties. The event was attended by Michael McFaul, a former US ambassador to Russia and an adherent of the “Azov has been denazified” myth, who stood in front of a projection of its Wolfsangel insignia.

[The Magistrate]

17. I Really Don't Care, Sir

Won't spend my morning at it, I've other things to do. Hold a patch of dirt, run forward, shoot when you have a target, long as you're pointing in the right direction I care no more what you think than what you fuck.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

65. +100. nt

[Deep State Witch]

8. The Enemy of Our Enemy

is our friend.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. A neonazi is already my enemy, but what the hell do I know, I guess

[Alexander Of Assyria]

11. They are Nazis.

[The Magistrate]

18. A Better Phrasing, Ma'am

"The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. He is my temporary asset."

[Alexander Of Assyria]

21. Or, Ma'am ... A Leopard can not change its spots.

Will not defend Nazis, foreign or domestic, 0 fucks to give…, don’t care what veneer of good they may do temporarily in a temporary situation.

More worried about the western media defending foreign Nazis while domestic Nazis are hated. Apparently hypocrisy cuts many ways.

[Hekate]

45. Well said, Sir. People have a really hard time parsing that thought, though

Be well, Sir.

[radius777]

46. +1. "We must all hang together, or most assuredly

we shall all hang separately." -Benjamin Franklin

And some Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans may in a weird way look upon the Nazis in a historical sense as having been liberators, due to the Nazis being the few with the stones to attack the Soviets/Russians. This doesn't make the Nazis good (they were pure evil) but it could explain how some who dislike/resent Russia could see it.

[Red Mountain]

51. This is the correct answer

if the phrase 'fighting for my life, the lives of my comrades and the existence of my country' means anything to you.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

10. I don't like Nazis. These guys are Nazis...NEVER my friend!, Never.

Proud Boys…that’s their friend!

Truth, please. I am a liberal.

[Sky Jewels]

24. You must REALLY hate Putin and his fascist goons then, right?

You must REALLY be hoping that Ukraine can thoroughly defeat Putin's brutal far right regime, right?

Right?

Bueller? ... Bueller? ...

[Bev54]

30. Let us never forget who kicks up the dirt the most about anything Ukraine and that is Putin

trying to get everyone to fight amongst ourselves. You are playing right into it.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

63. The Nation also pro Putin? Lol...Facts can be annoying, don't avoid, that's what Fox viewers do!

Cant attack the facts, attack the messenger, old school strategy!

[Bev54]

67. I follow the Ukraine war daily, with many different outlets outside of the US.

There is a lot of propaganda being tossed around out there and while we are all aware the Azov reputation and who they are, who benefits from stirring this all up again? Putin is trying to convince the world that the Russians are trying to clean out the Nazis from Ukraine. These fighters have a bad reputation but they are fighting like hell for Ukraine. Any unfinished business will be dealt with after the war, anybody stirring it now, is in my opinion, falling to Russian propaganda.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

78. No one can deny Asov are Nazis. Evil. Evil is never my friend. Simple.

[ExciteBike66]

13. We should absolutely worry about this...

After the war.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

14. Then they become Nazis again? So a temporary fascist hating pause?

Would anyone welcome the Proud Boys, any racist, extremist, foaming at the mouth Nazi milita to fight with the Pentagon against a common enemy??

There some very fine people…!? Remember who said that…another leading Nazi!

[ExciteBike66]

15. So what is the solution here,

Take an entire unit offline during the war? Withhold aid to Ukraine?

[Sky Jewels]

32. Do you have any problem whatsoever with the Nazis in Putin's military?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. Ok but like what if, in the meantime, we simply didn't let neonazis go on press tours in the U.S.

and hang out with sitting congresspeople/senators and otherwise legitimizing themselves?

[ExciteBike66]

19. Sure, the politicians should just stick to official

Ukraine govt representatives. I agree.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

20. The Western media needed some events in the West to assist with the whitewashing of Nazis.

Since Naziism and hate speech in America is perfectly legal, nothing can be done to stop it.

Not in Germany…who would know best to deal with Nazis than Germany?

It was vey awkward situation for the West!

[Sky Jewels]

23. And do you have any problem with the whitewashing of Putin by some Republicans?

Do you have a problem with Putin's military's abject brutality, its intentional breaching of the dam, the kidnapping of Ukrainian children, and the attempt to violently steal an entire country?

[Sky Jewels]

22. It's been well-known that Azov is teeming with Nazis.

My question is: In light of the Russian attempt to steal Ukraine, what do you think we should do with this information? Seems to me that the most important thing right now is that Ukraine fights Putin's brutal invasion with everything it has, including Azov, no? Or are you advocating something else?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. Not sure why "don't bring neonazis to the States for press tours and visits with congresspeople

Because whitewashing neonazis is a bad look” is so hard to come up with, but here we are!

[Sky Jewels]

26. So press U.S. press tours featuring Azov is a big issue right now?

Really?

Putin breaches a dam in Ukraine, and this is what you think we should be focusing on?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

27. Normalizing neonazis and their rhetoric in public is absolutely a big issue right now.

[Sky Jewels]

31. Of course it shouldn't be normalized.

But how does that affect U.S. support of Ukraine's effort to defeat Putin and prevent him from stealing that country?

We get it -- part of one faction of Ukraine's army has many white nationalists in it. So does a not insignificant part of the U.S. military. And the Russian military is filled with white supremacists. Putin and his oligarch goons are fucking fascist monsters, no?

Do you think we should withdraw military support of Ukraine because one branch of its military has extremists in it?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. .

But how does that affect U.S. support of Ukraine's effort to defeat Putin and prevent him from stealing that country?

It doesn't, directly. As the article noted, Congress has blocked direct aid to the Azov units. What it does affect more directly is public perception of neonazis, both at home and abroad.

We get it -- part of one faction of Ukraine's army has many white nationalists in it.

Again, as the article noted, with so many other valiant and successful defenders the media could be focusing on, the fact that Azov units keep popping up indicates that providing "they're not so bad!" coverage is a choice. It's worth asking why, or at least consuming that media with a critical eye.

[Sky Jewels]

35. So do you support U.S. support of Ukraine's war against Putin's invasion?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. If I gave the right answer, would you believe me?

[Sky Jewels]

38. Lol.

Let me guess: "NATO and the neoliberals are so completely evil that it impossible for Russia to be in the wrong and it was understandable that Putin invaded because he felt threatened! Also, Ukraine is overrun with Nazis and Putin is just trying to de-Nazify Ukraine! Also, why doesn't Ukraine just concede their land so this terrible war can stop! Don't they want peace?!"

[radius777]

48. +10000. Nailed it, my friend, well done.

The anti-Dem alt-left (which in many ways is indistinguishable from the alt-right) is working overtime to undermine support for Ukraine and empower Putin, who they see as the counterbalance to the 'evil West'. Putin being an oligarch and militarist himself seems to escape them.

The alt-left doesn't even care about racism/Nazism etc which they view as 'identity politics' but is running with the Kremlin's 'ZOMG Ukraine run by Nazis!' narrative to undermine support for the war amongst liberals.

Ukraine has a Jewish leader and commander in chief, who ultimately all of their military (even those who in a misguided way may identify with Nazis) are fighting under the direction of.

[The Magistrate]

57. I Would Believe Your Answer, Whether It Was One I Expected Or Not

[Happy Hoosier]

28. The author has been a critic...

… of Biden’s disinformation efforts related to Russian propaganda. He’s a bit of a tankie, IMO. I’ll take this with a big grain of salt.

[BannonsLiver]

33. The Nation is a Putinite rag.

[Sky Jewels]

36. Even this article admits the "Ukraine filled with Nazis!" is a lie used to justify the invasion.

Putin needed a pretext to justify his illegal invasion; for that, he turned to Azov. Moscow seized on Azov’s existence to paint all of Ukraine as a cesspool of fascism in need of “denazification.” Azov is the linchpin in Putin’s narrative—without it, his excuse for the war is gone.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

60. No. Disagree with one article and a national liberal media treasure is trash? No.

[BannonsLiver]

68. You obviously know nothing about its recent history.

Get back to me when you do.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

77. History of? And evidence of this history? A bow without an arrow.

Here’s another article from The Nation just today!!

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/trans-kids-texas-safe-folder/

History of progressive journalism…and continues.

[Bev54]

29. I don't think anyone has whitewashed the Azovs, it was known since the start of the war who they

were but accepted because of their exceptional defence of the Russian onslaught. It was something that I learned about at the very start of the war and when they were in the steel mill.

Perhaps the war will change many of their minds as well.

[NickB79]

39. I'll trust the President of Ukraine to deal with this, after the war is won

Unless we're to believe that their openly Jewish president, seated in a free election by a majority of the people of Ukraine, is carrying water for Nazis now.

[Torchlight]

40. Thankfully, the relevant people realize Azov battalion does not represent the Ukrainian military.

Lacking context, it's an easy target. Given context, their involvement is less than a third chair clarinetist in a marching band; helpful, hardly defining.

[Elessar Zappa]

41. The Nation?

Thumbs down!

[Xolodno]

42. Of course the majority here on DU believe...

...Anyone fighting for Ukraine = Good. Anything Russian = Bad. In another thread where Russians were being quietly deported back, saw some rather disturbing comments. I pointed out that there are Russian pacifist groups, it kind of went unnoticed except from the OP.

What supporters don't realize, the Azov group, after cessation of hostilities are just as likely to turn their guns on Zelensky.

Nor will anyone engage the fact, that 3 million Ukrainians actually fled to Russia at the start of war, but many act like they only fled West.

This war isn't an absolute or black and white. It's very complicated. Anyone pointing out flaws gets labeled as pushing Russian propaganda, but there has been quite a bit of propaganda on our side as well, some choose not to engage it critically.

[Elessar Zappa]

44. Russia attacked and invaded Ukraine.

That’s black and white as far as I’m concerned.

[Xolodno]

47. Yes they did.

But there is a lot more context to that, which gets ignored.

Just like our invasion of Iraq and others. I don't choose to live with information that I only want to hear and read, which agrees with any personal bias.

[Emrys]

92. The context is that Putin has finally let the Russian mask slip and openly embarked on genocide.

Everything else is just noise.

Listen to his proclamations and those of his tame media pets in Russia.

[Tommy Carcetti]

88. Exactly. nt

[radius777]

49. The war IS black and white, anything else is blaming the victim.

Russia (the abuser) unilaterally attacked Ukraine (the victim) the reason being that Ukraine wants to face Westward and join NATO/EU, which DOES in fact pose an obstacle to Putin reconstituting the Soviet Union - which is what really angers him. He can't have back his empire, so he will destroy it instead.

[Xolodno]

52. Demonstrated my point, perfectly.

Hey, if you want to live under and information cone, that's your business. I choose not to.

[radius777]

53. I choose not to further Kremlin narratives.

Slava Ukraini.

[Xolodno]

58. Again you demonstrate my point.

When confronted, just call it Russian Propaganda, or in your case "Kremlin Narratives"...which amounts to the same.

So let me posit this fact to you. It's becoming accepted that Ukraine blew up the Nordstream 1 and 2 pipelines. And the USA or other NATO nations did nothing to stop it despite warning them not to. You probably think, "That's Awesome". Well, its not....

The contract of shipping natural gas to Germany via Ukraine, which both Ukraine and Russia observing the terms of the contract (i.e. transit fee's, etc.) is coming to an end shortly. Both sides have been honoring the contract despite the war (hence, my point on how complicated this is and not black and white).

So what happens when it ends? Russia or Ukraine shut off the valve? That will collapse the German economy as well as the pro Ukraine government that is starting to lose support. Ukraine demands higher transit fee's? Moscow may opt to repair one of the pipelines instead and deprive Ukraine of badly needed fee's. I could go through a 100 different scenario's. But if you want to see things in absolutes, that's your business, I know the world doesn't work that way.

[Emrys]

93. "It's becoming accepted that Ukraine blew up the Nordstream 1 and 2 pipelines."

Maybe in the echo chambers you frequent. The jury's still out, but there's far more evidence that Russia did it.

[Tommy Carcetti]

97. Classic Begging the Question.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

[Emrys]

98. In Trumpspeak "Some people say/a lot of people are saying ..." n/t

[Alexander Of Assyria]

61. Information cones of silence are comforting if don't want to be bombarded with facts!

[Tommy Carcetti]

87. Exactly. nt

[Tommy Carcetti]

69. Actually this is pretty much as black and white as a war can get.

One country merely existed in its own internationally recognized borders.

The other, without provocation, invaded those borders and has attempted to claim portions of the other country as its own.

It’s that straight forward.

Any bullshit about “NATO provocation” is just that: bullshit.

NATO is an alliance, not a country. And if Ukraine aspires to want to join NATO—as it has since 2008–then guess what? It’s its own country and has a right to want to do that, regardless of what Moscow thinks.

Any discussion about any ideologies of any individual combatants is inherently secondary to the main issue at hand.

Russia is not justified in invading a sovereign country. Ukraine is justified in defending itself.

And it’s as simple as that.

Unless you’re someone who believes nonsense like, say, there was a coup in Ukraine in 2014…

[Alexander Of Assyria]

79. Organized Nazi militia isn't individual combatants any more than a national army is.

[Tommy Carcetti]

80. Asov Battalion has since been absorbed into the national army.

And as part of that absorption, it was subject to much heavier regulation regarding fringe elements.

So at this point--in 2023--we are talking about a national army, and whatever fringe elements that do unfortunately exist (and certainly they do) exists on an individual combatant basis.

It's 2023, not 2014.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

82. That's how whitewashing works, do the washing, then take out the clean laundry and use it.

[Tommy Carcetti]

84. The situation speaks for itself.

The idea that there might be some extremists or even Neo-Nazis within the Ukrainian armed forces is very likely. But it's very likely that there are such people within just about any country's armed forces. So that fact alone means very little. Law of numbers and what not.

On the other hand, the idea that the Ukrainian armed forces have a "neo-nazi problem" or, in other words, are predominately guided by extremists is an absurd fiction. It was an absurd fiction when it was pushed in 2014, and it's an absurd fiction when it's being pushed now in 2023.

Now, why it's being pushed so heavily in 2023? I don't know.

But people are saying all sorts of crazy stuff with no basis in reality. Hell, upthread in this very post we have someone claiming that Azov is going to attempt to overthrow Zelensky. No proof or factual basis whatsoever. Just running one's mouth.

But if anyone is taking old things, washing them out, and reusing them, it's the people who are pushing the idea that Ukraine is being lead by Neo-Nazis. It wasn't true in 2014, nor is it any more true in 2023.

And that type of talk--willingly or unwillingly made--ultimately helps Russia.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

94. UK is led by Nazis as much as America...it isn't...but welcoming openly Nazis?? NO!

Don’t believe American military welcomes Nazis, forms a Nazi unit or assigns Nazis to units…in fact has been trying to actively weed out the Nazis!… fought the Nazis for 5 years!! Long ago I know, hard to remember!?

Asov Nazi Platoons…NO! Proud Boys Nazi platoons…identical NO!, same reasons. They Nazis.

Looking the other way on Nazis in any military…is hypocrisy…an insult to the dead of WW2.

When the war is over…do the Nazis then become evil creatures again? It’s just a temporary hold on the evil? Look away for a while!? There is a greater evil we need to defeat…so this evil ok as ally??

Only hypocrisy permits such ignorance of history and reality…Salon gets it.

Fight evil…with evil??

[Tommy Carcetti]

96. It's not the same as the Proud Boys

Given that the Proud Boys apparently are okay with waging fights with their own government.

You’re square pegging a round hole.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

100. Nazis love other Nazis, American or Ukrainian. I am assuming. Others, shouldn't.

[harumph]

50. What a transparently apologetic thread for Russia.

I say we burn Russia's oligarchs and then deal with our own.

Just a dose of moral clarity sans pearl clutching.

[leftstreet]

55. LOL

The OP has been here zillions of years and routinely posts interesting news articles

But do go on Mr. McCarthy...

[Happy Hoosier]

64. If you can't see the problem here...

That’s on you. The OP suggests that this is the “truth” by referencing “whitewashing,” but not mentioning th Author’s penchant for criticizing not just Ukraine, but Biden’s efforts to counter Russian misinformation and propaganda. The Nation has not been very supportive of efforts in Ukraine. It’s a bit Tankie and I do not care how long the member has been here.

[leftstreet]

66. Oh, I see the problem n/t

[Alexander Of Assyria]

83. It's fortunate that liberals don't succumb so easily to mass propaganda. Do they?

[Azathoth]

54. The Michael Moore crowd did the same thing in Iraq

I remember Moore excitedly declaring that Muqtada al-Sadr's private religious army were the same as the colonial Minutemen.

War tends to make for uncomfortable alliances, but it also provides an excuse for people to abandon difficult reasoning and go full bore black-and-white thinking.

[BootinUp]

59. All this concern about Ukraines tiny number of white nationalsits is so precious

Fuck the NAtion and their pro Russian shit.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

62. Tiny number of white fascist nationalists attempted a coup ...in what country!?

[Emrys]

99. Ukraine isn't as bad as the USA isn't the win you seem to assume it is.

Which country has a more significant membership in its ruling institutions that is at least fascist-adjacent, if not fascist-friendly, and has that reflected in its national media?

Clue: You live in it.

[Bucky]

70. Their country was invaded, their ethnicity denied, their people betrayed...

It's no wonder that there is some far right wing extremism being developed in Ukraine. They are under attack and extremists are among the men who show up to fight. And none of this should be surprising.

That said, the far right-wing elements within Ukraine are relatively small, especially compared to other right wing extremist governments in Europe, including Hungary, Belarus, and Russia. Ukraine is led by a pro-reform, proliberal democracy government and they are trying to control and suppress the wing nuts within that one unit.

Obviously it's a concern, and it's more than just Russian propaganda. But a lot of the attention is being generated and exaggerated by Russian propagandists. Extremists would form under any nation at war, especially when they're fighting for their very existence.

[Tommy Carcetti]

74. Well said.

And it's unfortunate that this is being pushed around the same time as a) the Ukrainian counter-offensive and b) the recent destruction of the Kherson dam by Russian forces, flooding vast swaths of the Ukrainian countryside.

That most of what I've seen is nothing more than a rehash of talking points and pictures circa 2014 when extremism was far more of a visible problem within the Azov Battalion, is quite unfortunate.

[EX500rider]

81. Lets look at the far right nationalist party in Ukraine:

The All-Ukrainian Union "Freedom" commonly known as Svoboda, is an ultranationalist political party in Ukraine.
It has been led by Oleh Tyahnybok since 2004.

In the last elections they won 1 seat out of 450 in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. (the unicameral parliament of Ukraine)

Out of 43,122 local councils, they won 890 or about 2.61% of the available seats.

Not very popular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

[Tommy Carcetti]

85. Hell, it wasn't even true in 2014 when they brought out this same talking point.

Back then I think the Svoboda Party had something like 7 members in Parliament.

[Tommy Carcetti]

86. Everything old is new again.

This was DU back in 2014:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10025040312

[The Magistrate]

91. Indeed, Sir

The great fact of this situation is this:

A government has gone to war openly announcing its intent is genocidal, that its war aim is the obliteration of a people. Russian actions and statements clearly meet legal definitions of this highest of crimes.

It's very convenient in certain quarters to have a few 'nazis' to brandish around, feeble a tu quoque as it is. But which party to this war actually engages in genocidal atrocity is abundantly clear.

[JI7]

95. We have Nazis in our own military also

[Alexander Of Assyria]

101. Not openly.