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Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 03:56 PM Jun 2023

Advisor of Submersible Company That Trapped Its Passengers Condemns Goverment Interference


In case you were wondering how it is possible that someone can make bank by selling trips on a vessel with no backups, no emergency plan, and no way to locate it in operation, meet this asshole:



Tough guy. He's going to name names of government agencies and employees who don't do "their jobs" which are apparently keeping his ass from being rightfully sued into oblivion for wrongful death claims.

This is a new flex for him since, just a few days ago, he was a libertarian decrying government obsession with safety regulations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/oceangate-titanic-missing-submersible.html

OceanGate Was Warned of Potential for ‘Catastrophic’ Problems With Titanic Mission

Years before OceanGate’s submersible craft went missing in the Atlantic Ocean with five people onboard, the company faced several warnings as it prepared for its hallmark mission of taking wealthy passengers to tour the Titanic’s wreckage.

It was January 2018, and the company’s engineering team was about to hand over the craft — named Titan — to a new crew who would be responsible for ensuring the safety of its future passengers. But experts inside and outside the company were beginning to sound alarms.

OceanGate’s director of marine operations, David Lochridge, started working on a report around that time, according to court documents, ultimately producing a scathing document in which he said the craft needed more testing and stressed “the potential dangers to passengers of the Titan as the submersible reached extreme depths.”

Two months later, OceanGate faced similarly dire calls from more than three dozen people — industry leaders, deep-sea explorers and oceanographers — who warned in a letter to its chief executive, Stockton Rush, that the company’s “experimental” approach and its decision to forgo a traditional assessment could lead to potentially “catastrophic” problems with the Titanic mission.

...

The separate warning that OceanGate received that same year came from 38 experts in the submersible craft industry; all of them were members of the Manned Underwater Vehicles committee of the Marine Technology Society, a 60-year-old industry group that promotes, studies and teaches the public about ocean technology. The experts wrote in their letter to Mr. Rush that they had “unanimous concern” about the way the Titan had been developed, and about the planned missions to the Titanic wreckage.

...

Another signatory of the 2018 letter, Bart Kemper, said in an interview that OceanGate had avoided having to abide by certain U.S. regulations by deploying the vessel in international waters, where Coast Guard rules did not apply.


40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Advisor of Submersible Company That Trapped Its Passengers Condemns Goverment Interference (Original Post) Effete Snob Jun 2023 OP
Play stupid games MontanaMama Jun 2023 #1
Exactly! 2naSalit Jun 2023 #12
He's under a lot of pressure Orrex Jun 2023 #2
Added a link to your thread on mine malaise Jun 2023 #3
He didn't need the nanny state treestar Jun 2023 #4
*snicker*... 2naSalit Jun 2023 #14
Ocean Gate web pages link sanatanadharma Jun 2023 #5
You can tell these assholes really sweat the details.... Effete Snob Jun 2023 #6
Wow. Almost could be match.com or linkedin.com stock text/photos. erronis Jun 2023 #8
Looks like they're already scrubbed. Stinky The Clown Jun 2023 #13
wow Effete Snob Jun 2023 #25
Scott Griffith double duty MagickMuffin Jun 2023 #16
Oceangate Leadership maspaha Jun 2023 #9
Scott Griffith with white hair - "File Not Found", but details for Scott Griffith with dark hair OK hatrack Jun 2023 #20
Amazing that this site is still advertising new expeditions to visit the Titanic. erronis Jun 2023 #10
They can charge more Effete Snob Jun 2023 #11
Hmmmm. Every trip down will be an archeological dig of the previous trips down. erronis Jun 2023 #17
"Welcome to Donner Pass Old Time Adventure Tours" Effete Snob Jun 2023 #19
No diversity at that company FreeState Jun 2023 #29
"I should have been onboard with everybody!" struggle4progress Jun 2023 #7
this guy sounds like another libertarian asshole Recycle_Guru Jun 2023 #18
working is hard! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! Takket Jun 2023 #15
How friggen hard or expensive can it be to, at the minimum, have a responder beacon Bev54 Jun 2023 #21
not sure what you mean Effete Snob Jun 2023 #23
Did it have a surface transponder though? Disaffected Jun 2023 #24
"Radio waves don't travel in seawater." BumRushDaShow Jun 2023 #26
Unfortunately, you are confusing acoustic waves with radio waves Effete Snob Jun 2023 #30
I am afraid I have a degree in chemistry BumRushDaShow Jun 2023 #33
Two semesters of p-chem? I knew you were smart, BumRush, but DAMN! yardwork Jun 2023 #35
It was ugh BumRushDaShow Jun 2023 #36
Whales don't emit radio waves Effete Snob Jun 2023 #37
You are still using a narrow definition of "radio" BumRushDaShow Jun 2023 #38
They can hear knocking at that distance they can hear some kind of a beacon that works underwater. Bev54 Jun 2023 #39
He is preparing his defense in the court of law. Chainfire Jun 2023 #22
He's lucky the government is responding at all spinbaby Jun 2023 #27
+1 we can do it Jun 2023 #40
He says this when there is a massive government search by many agencies. Irish_Dem Jun 2023 #28
From Clark's blog today... PSPS Jun 2023 #31
Hey conservatives, how's that deregulated capitalism thing working out for ya? Initech Jun 2023 #32
This is what the wealthy want - no government regulation. . yardwork Jun 2023 #34

MontanaMama

(24,722 posts)
1. Play stupid games
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 03:59 PM
Jun 2023

win stupid prizes. This a-hole is working so hard that he's got to get some shut eye in the hopes that he wakes up to find the government solved his problems for him. Fool.

2naSalit

(102,795 posts)
12. Exactly!
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 05:22 PM
Jun 2023

He reminds me of that shell oil guy who whined about how long it was taking to resolve the Deepwater Horizon spill and he just wanted his life back. Didn't give a shit about all those people who live along the coast whose lives were destroyed. Was upset that the government was so hard on him... all while he was being coddled by a certain faction of the government.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
6. You can tell these assholes really sweat the details....
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 04:28 PM
Jun 2023

Last edited Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:30 PM - Edit history (2)



backup....

erronis

(23,882 posts)
8. Wow. Almost could be match.com or linkedin.com stock text/photos.
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 04:56 PM
Jun 2023

Like you said - they don't care about the details.

I imagine many of these photos/texts will be scrubbed soon and replaced with "We care deeply......"

maspaha

(745 posts)
9. Oceangate Leadership
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 04:59 PM
Jun 2023

I literally just finished reading the bio of every one of those dirt bags! I have never been more proud of my engineering degrees (BS, MS) from the public, land grant University of my home state! I was taught the importance of integrity and adherence to safety and accepted engineering principles and standards.

Those guys almost seem to have contempt for any process, standard, or person that comes between them, their ego and a dollar bill. What about the folks operating your vehicle?!? Their families?

hatrack

(64,889 posts)
20. Scott Griffith with white hair - "File Not Found", but details for Scott Griffith with dark hair OK
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 05:48 PM
Jun 2023

Huh. Wonder if it has anything to do with Scott Griffith with white hair being listed as Director of Engineering.

erronis

(23,882 posts)
10. Amazing that this site is still advertising new expeditions to visit the Titanic.
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 05:01 PM
Jun 2023

Of course they'd be damned if they pulled it all down. But rich suckers may still want to get in this submersible after it's been raised and cleaned up a bit.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
11. They can charge more
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 05:06 PM
Jun 2023

Since future passengers will be able to see the grave of those who perished on the Titanic along with those who perished on the V1.0 submersible.

It's a buy one get one free sightseeing excursion.

erronis

(23,882 posts)
17. Hmmmm. Every trip down will be an archeological dig of the previous trips down.
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 05:43 PM
Jun 2023

Helluva way to make money.

Guess the loved ones of these millionaires won't grieve too much - "S/He really wanted to get to the bottom of this, no matter the cost."

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
19. "Welcome to Donner Pass Old Time Adventure Tours"
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 05:46 PM
Jun 2023

We specialize in taking people to dangerous places to see where a lot of other people died from the dangers of going to those places.

FreeState

(10,702 posts)
29. No diversity at that company
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:53 PM
Jun 2023

All white men with gray hair. Literally everyone of them on that list.

Recycle_Guru

(2,973 posts)
18. this guy sounds like another libertarian asshole
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 05:43 PM
Jun 2023

he's whining certain members of government aren't being responsive enough in helping rescue these privateers from their own fuck up in i international waters.

Bev54

(13,431 posts)
21. How friggen hard or expensive can it be to, at the minimum, have a responder beacon
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:01 PM
Jun 2023

on the craft. Reprehensible.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
23. not sure what you mean
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:11 PM
Jun 2023

Radio waves don't travel in seawater.

I'm not familiar with issues involving acoustic devices at the sort of pressures involved at the depth in question.

For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_locator_beacon


A 37.5 kHz (160.5 dB re 1 μPa) pinger can be detectable 1–2 kilometres (0.62–1.24 mi) from the surface in normal conditions and 4–5 kilometres (2.5–3.1 mi) under ideal conditions.


So, the depth of the Titanic is outside of the range of "normal conditions" under which the beacon described in that Wikipedia article operates.

Do you have a specific technology in mind?

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
26. "Radio waves don't travel in seawater."
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:39 PM
Jun 2023

They most certainly do. Otherwise, "whale song" would be a myth.



You might not be able to "hear" (with your ears) certain frequencies within the "radio wave" range, but that energy propagates and you just need something to detect the target inaudible frequencies and convert that into something audible.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
30. Unfortunately, you are confusing acoustic waves with radio waves
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 07:27 PM
Jun 2023

No, we cannot communicate with submarines by radio, except at extremely low frequency (VLF) which cannot carry information at a practical rate.

That is why nuclear submarines must periodically send a receiver or antenna to the surface to find out if a nuclear war has broken out.

Seawater is conductive and radio waves do not propagate in a conductive medium.

Here is a Wikipedia article that you might find of interest:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines

Because radio waves do not travel well through good electrical conductors like salt water, submerged submarines are cut off from radio communication with their command authorities at ordinary radio frequencies. Submarines can surface and raise an antenna above the sea level, or float a tethered buoy carrying an antenna, then use ordinary radio transmissions, however this makes them vulnerable to detection by anti-submarine warfare forces.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
33. I am afraid I have a degree in chemistry
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 07:53 PM
Jun 2023

and 3 semesters of physics along with 2 of p-chem so when you say "radio waves", I'm talking the "radio" range of the EM spectrum.

A wave is a wave is wave, but can be of different frequencies.

What you seem to be dong is mixing terms. "Acoustic" is "sound" (detectable within the human ear range) and "radio waves" include that "audible" (acoustic) portion of the EM spectrum. However that "radio" range also includes much more, like frequencies not "audible" but actually "felt", like one might experience with a subwoofer or from an earthquake, at the lowest end of the spectrum for example. And in any of these cases, it's a matter of what is needed to "generate" and "detect" certain frequencies of waves.

But you can't hand-wave the notion that "radio waves" don't transmit through (salt) water because they can and do - but like a prism does to the highest frequencies of "light" (in quotes), causing diffraction, any wave traveling through a substance can and will be altered and your detector needs to adjust for it.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
36. It was ugh
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 08:26 PM
Jun 2023

for everyone in there except a couple of students.

My graduating class of about 5000 at UMASS/Amherst only had 30 chem majors and half of those were transfers and older students. There were just 15 of us who started and finished at the same time (out of an original starting group of ~100).

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
37. Whales don't emit radio waves
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 08:27 PM
Jun 2023

You brought whales into this. They do not communicate by radio.

We are talking about submarine location or communication. They do not have radio communication or location systems, because any frequency useful for those purpose is not diffracted, as in a prism, but absorbed, as in any other conductive medium.

Perhaps you might tell me the size of a quarter wave or half wave antenna for an “acoustic frequency” radio signal. Let’s say a 100 Hz frequency a bit more than an octave below middle C.

Okay?

λ=c/f

Where λ is wavelength, c is the speed of light and f is the frequency.

At a frequency of 100 Hz, and the speed of light at 3x10^8 m/s, the wavelength is 6 million meters. So, your location accuracy is going to be 3 million meters - 3000 km.

So, sure, with an “acoustic range” radio locator, we could say, within measurement error, that the sub is in the Atlantic.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
38. You are still using a narrow definition of "radio"
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 08:51 PM
Jun 2023

as some kind of literal "transmitter". I am saying that (audible) "sound" is made up of waves that are a part of the "radio frequency range" of the EM spectrum. When you "talk" you are making "sound" in a frequency somewhere between about 100 Hz - 300 Hz. Our ears can generally "receive" sound within the 20Hz to 20KHz range. Underwater creatures make "sounds" that generate waves that transverse through water.



Bev54

(13,431 posts)
39. They can hear knocking at that distance they can hear some kind of a beacon that works underwater.
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 10:43 PM
Jun 2023

It should be automatically installed on any kind of submersible.

 

Chainfire

(17,757 posts)
22. He is preparing his defense in the court of law.
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:07 PM
Jun 2023

The people were lost because the gov was unable undo the disaster his company caused. As if there will be anything to salvage from the company.

spinbaby

(15,389 posts)
27. He's lucky the government is responding at all
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:45 PM
Jun 2023

A private company sailing out of Canada launched the thing in international waters, but somehow the United States government is responsible for the rescue.

Irish_Dem

(81,271 posts)
28. He says this when there is a massive government search by many agencies.
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 06:45 PM
Jun 2023

Costing tax payers a small fortune.

What an ass.

PSPS

(15,321 posts)
31. From Clark's blog today...
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 07:43 PM
Jun 2023
The founder-CEO of the Everett company that runs the commercial “submersible” watercraft trips to the Titanic wreckage is one of the five people currently in the craft

Turns out the CEO had canceled some previous trips over “safety concerns,” only to get sued by rich would-be passengers. And he’d once “complained about strict passenger-vessel regulations, saying the industry was ‘obscenely safe,’” in the wake of a 2018 safety lawsuit filed by a former employee.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
34. This is what the wealthy want - no government regulation. .
Wed Jun 21, 2023, 08:12 PM
Jun 2023

But then it's "do your jobs!!!"

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