Trump Prosecutors Struggled Over Motives. Then They Heard the Tape.

[Shrek]

I gifted this article so the link should take you behind the paywall.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-prosecutors-struggled-over-motives-then-they-heard-the-tape-37a7efed?st=xgx90gkidnbsto7&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Some officials at the time, even with evidence Trump might have obstructed the response to the May 11, 2022, subpoena demanding the production of classified documents, said their main interest in conducting the Mar-a-Lago search was to return any such material to the government’s possession.

Momentum shifted around February of this year, when investigators got hold of an audio recording of a July 21, 2021, meeting at Trump’s golf club in Bedminster, N.J., where Trump and his aides met with people working on an autobiography of his former chief of staff, Mark Meadows.

In the audio, the former president could be heard showing them a document that laid out a U.S. plan to attack Iran. Trump seemed to be brandishing it to dispute an article published a few days earlier in the New Yorker. That article said Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had tried to stop Trump from attacking Iran at the end of his presidency.

In the recording, Trump clearly stated that he was sharing it despite knowing the information remained classified because he hadn’t declassified it as president. That gave prosecutors direct evidence that Trump knew what he was doing was wrong.

[exboyfil]

1. Motive but even better showing mens rea

If it was an associate showing me something like that, then my first question would be, "Why do you still have it?"

[AZ8theist]

58. More importantly...

WHY WAS BEDMINSTER NOT SEARCHED??????????????

[BootinUp]

2. Trump was ready to start WWIII

anything to stay in power.

[Walleye]

3. True. We don't know how much general Milley actually saved us from

[mercuryblues]

18. exactly

It also makes me wonder if Milley didn't fudge the attack plan a bit. I would have.

[peppertree]

19. Absolutely. The Soleimani assassination was designed for trigger an all -out war.

It was only Milley's restraint - and Iran's - that prevented an escalation.

Much to Bibi's chagrin.

[Walleye]

21. Bibi who is an old family friend of the Kushner's

[peppertree]

24. Is that right? Boy - birds of a feather.

The worst part of that, I think, is that when NO ONE had vaccines, Isreal and UAE suddenly got 10 million shots each.

One for every inhabitant in each country - while even our first responders went without.

This was just as Jar-Jar was zipping around between Jerusalem and Dubai on a "secret" mission.

And our intrepid media? Crickets.

[Walleye]

27. Jared has known Bibi since he was a child. What is this crap about Hunter Biden, Geeze

I don’t remember very much journalism about the cozy relationship between Kushner and Netanyahu

[peppertree]

28. Isreal is one of the great third rails in U.S. journalism, sadly

Especially among Republicans - which is why Bibi has been busy trying to install right-wing authoritarians everywhere he can.

Sadly for him, most of them are idiots (like Argentina's Macri), lunatics (like Brazil's Bolsonaro), or both (like Trump) - and so they seldom last.

What a wicked web we weave...

[Walleye]

29. Netanyahu is currently wreaking havoc on Palestine

[peppertree]

31. A crime against humanity

And our dear old "free" press? Crickets.

[OldBaldy1701E]

60. Well, seeing as how most of them are owned by the rethugs...

Not to mention stirring up the piranha pool by daring to say anything even remotely negative about Israel, it is no surprise that our media chooses to say nothing about it. They are certain that Americans only want smoke up their asses when it comes to Israel since it is so heavily associated with various religions here. It would be like saying that heaven is not real on national news. The backlash would destroy the entire network.

[NewEnglandAutumn]

59. where did you get this info

it is interesting but I have not heard of this

[peppertree]

64. Well it was never framed that way - but those two had MUCH higher vaccines access, when NO ONE did

And Jar-Jar was busy zipping between them in the closing weeks of the Cheeto regime, as you'll recall. Those were U.S.-made Pfizer vaccines - which in Jan/Feb 2021, even our first responders didn't have (or barely).

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/31/960819083/vaccines-for-data-israels-pfizer-deal-drives-quick-rollout-and-privacy-worries

[2naSalit]

4. +1

[Justice matters.]

5. Maybe not WWIII but like Cheney/Bush...

He doesn't give two shits about the troops killed in combat to try to get re-elected.

[Walleye]

22. I really think Trump loved getting people killed

[calimary]

40. Probably makes him feel powerful. More potent.

More "manly." Especially as he ages and maybe has more trouble in - um - well, let's just say "the bedroom."

[Walleye]

42. Yeah so he's getting worse.

[TheBlackAdder]

30. Or he was going to start a war and hand it over to Biden to deal with.

[Chili Pepper]

63. That's one scenario that I hadn't thought of

But very believable … and scary to think about.

[edhopper]

6. His motive for what?

Stealing the documents, or keeping them when told to return them?

[stopdiggin]

10. I think the OP ties them together

With the larger point being - up until this point a larger part of the effort was devoted to simply securing the return - and was willing to grant a pass or overlook whatever 'motive' might have been involved. Trump had to demonstrate (criminal) intent - to move that to the front of the ledger.

[Ms. Toad]

49. Motive is the wrong term.

(It appears to have been added by the WSJ headline writer - and headlines often misstate what the article is about.)

What the tape shows was mens rea (state of mind). In order to be criminally liable the prosecution had to show the state of mind required by the crime - in this case (without checking the statute) it was some level of knowledge that what he was doing was wrong.

Motive is generally irrelevant in criminal cases. It is often used as circumstantial evidence, but there are very few crimes were motive is legally relevant. (The only ones I can think of off of the top of my head are hate crimes (where an act is committed because of animosity toward a particular race, sexual orientation, etc.)

[edhopper]

50. Thanks

[reACTIONary]

57. Thanks!

[Marthe48]

7. TY for the gifted link

[TeamProg]

8. Motive? Ego! Ignorance of the law ( doubtful) is no excuse for breaking it..

Having an eveil motive certainly helps make the case for prison time though!

[Qutzupalotl]

9. "This is classified. Look, look at this."

[stopdiggin]

11. confirming (once again) that Trump

is NOT the genius (nor mastermind) that a lot of people keep painting him to be.

This is mendacity - and kinda' low functioning stuff.
You bring out state secrets, then wave them around in front of - a tell all book author .. ? Really? That's really using the old noggin!

[Walleye]

43. It's funny that Kid Rock actually turned out to be a better American thanTrump

[wnylib]

12. Like many other people, I have believed that

Trump's motive in taking and keeping the documents was solely for the purpose of selling them or using them as bargaining chips if he was indicted for one of his many crimes.

But now I see a possible second motive. He is obsessed with "proving" his innocence of any criticism or charge against him. Some of the documents that he keeps saying are his might have been taken as his "evidence" of innocence to show people. He would regard them as his personal docs because they were about him, in his mind.

Edit to add: I'd still believe that he monetized other docs. I also suspect that he tried to bargain with other countries to help him get back into the WH.

[orangecrush]

17. His narcicissm

Can't bear any idea of being wrong.

[Walleye]

44. I believe his motive for anything is either vengeance or vindication

Even when he’s making money that’s not the sole purpose

[japple]

48. I believe his motive is all of the above, plus a real biggie:

To prove that he is/was an important, entitled, worthy person. Also, he needs souvenirs to impress any/everyone. I'll bet he also stole stuff from the White House (and other places he visited while potus) because he's entitled.

[wnylib]

51. Likely one reason why the British royals told

Trump and his entourage that the palace was being renovated so they would have to stay somewhere else during their state visit.

[MayReasonRule]

13. Thank You Shrek

[meow2u3]

14. One comment in the WSJ article

Trump's EPA: Ego, Power, Access.

[crickets]

54. 👆👆

[Snackshack]

15. DT has already made the USA

...and those running it look weak.

We are supposed to be a leading "super power" with this great exceptionalism and one man has thrown the entire country into chaos. Once it became clear that dt knew he was showing top secret documents as the article above shows the DoJ / Garland should have unleashed the full force of the DoJ on traitor trump not ex president trump and sat back and asked again and again and again and again for dt to please stop putting the country in danger by having stolen national secrets keeping them in the bath room for anyone to read.

[Walleye]

26. One man couldn't of done it without complicity of a major political party

Which is becoming diminished quickly

[Martin68]

33. Although the GOP is increasingly fractious, I wouldn't dismiss their ability to win elections and

do serious damage to our government and the people of this country.

[Walleye]

36. I don't doubt that ever

[calimary]

45. Neither do I. NEVER EVER let down your guard with these fiends.

Gotta say, now that the GOP has gotten its hooks into taking away a woman's right to choose, how soon will some of them try expanding that to taking away a woman's right to vote? Women had to fight for THAT one, too.

[Walleye]

46. I used to hope that by the time I got old I wouldn't have to keep fighting, it is exhausting

Now I know that you have to continue the lifelong struggle. We are up against some very long held and hateful prejudices

[calimary]

47. I totally get that. One would think this would have been settled - and settled long ago.

But NO!

These bastards won't give up. So that means WE CAN'T give up.

As long as they're there, trying to take our rights away, WE have to be there, too, meeting them at EVERY attack line, in EVERY attack space, and with EVERY strategy available.

And we have to remain on the lookout.

CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!! If it was good enough advice for Mad-Eye Moody to give to Harry Potter, it's good enough for us as a reminder to ourselves.

[Walleye]

52. 👍

[usonian]

16. "If it ain't wrong, it ain't worth doing.️"

The REAL Trump motto.

[gratuitous]

35. Si non est malum, non valet facere

The Latin would make a nifty coat of arms for the defendant. I'm thinking a shield partitioned in four with a skunk, a set of golf clubs, a washing machine stuffed with cash, and a small hand groping a woman's breast.

[Paladin]

62. If I see it on a T-shirt, I'm buying one. (nt)

[Bev54]

20. I really doubt the DOJ was struggling over motives and I do not for one moment believe

it is all about ego. Arrogance yes but Trump is transactional, there had to be money involved as well. I hesitate with the WSJ as occasionally they get it right, but so often they get it wrong as a diversional tactic.

[bluesbassman]

23. The WSJ got it partially right.

If the DOJ was struggling about motive, it wasn’t struggling to find one, it was struggling to pick one out of the myriad examples.

[Bev54]

25. So very true.

[Martin68]

32. Very interesting and relevant info. Thanks for sharing.

[617Blue]

34. He's traitor. That's his motive.

[live love laugh]

37. Wonder if he returned that specific document. If not he's really fucked.

[republianmushroom]

38. 29 months and counting

[Cha]

39. Good on Whomever For Recording It..

and it Getting OUT.

More Screaming Melt Downs for the Domestic Terrorist.

[Boomerproud]

41. So, at the time, they only cared about him not handing the docs over. Not the fact that he had them,

Am I reading it correctly? No charges would have been brought if not for the released tape? Would this had ever even been made public?

[Orrex]

61. Sounds like they wanted an excuse not to act

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

65. Only to people who don't know any better

[Orrex]

66. Oh good, a cheerleader

I hadn't seen any of you lately, and I was wondering who would tell us all what to think.

Half of the fun lately is posting something just to see which of you gatekeepers will leap in to explain How It Is.

It's a fucking miracle that any of us can get out of bed in the morning without one of you there to advise us.


Thank you for being consistent, predictable, and unchanging in the face of reality.

[KT2000]

53. thank you for the gift

DOJ proceeded with caution and gave the idiot numerous off-ramps.

[KG]

55. he stole 'em to sell 'em

[reACTIONary]

56. Thanks for the link!!!!

[LAS14]

67. Has something new happened on this front? nt