Just a reminder- today is yet another consequence of not getting out the vote in 2016 for Hillary

[dsp3000]

that is all.

[Mister Ed]

1. But, y'know, her emails...

[raging moderate]

2. You got that right!

I remember working for Hillary. I was so sure she would win! I will always wonder what would have happened, if she had won!

[Beastly Boy]

3. But... neoliberal third way incrementalist establishment!

[betsuni]

17. Corporate shill liberal elite corrupt status quo lesser of two evils Wall St. Wall St. Wall St.

SHE GAVE PAID SPEECHES. RIGGED!

Send them a message, hold feet to the fire, earn our vote: don't vote for Democrats/do everything you can to depress the vote, Republicans win. That'll teach them! Excellent plan to help working/middle class Americans!

[Autumn]

4. Just a reminder

Hillary got almost 3 million more votes than the orange ass did. The problem wasn't getting out the vote. It was a third party candidate in 3 states that was until 2016, called the blue wall. You could fit the voters from those three states in stadium that cost her the election.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/hillary-clinton-margin-loss-votes

While nearly 138 million Americans voted in the presidential election, the stunning electoral victory of Donald Trump came down to upsets in just a handful of states that Hillary Clinton was expected to win. It has been cold comfort for Democrats that Clinton won the popular vote—at the last count, she was up by about 2.5 million votes, and climbing, as ballots continue to be counted. Even more distressing is the tiny margin by which Clinton lost Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania—three states that were supposed to be her firewall in the Rust Belt, but that ultimately tipped the electoral college map decisively in Trump’s favor.

Trump’s margin of victory in those three states? Just 79,316 votes.

This latest number comes from Decision Desk’s final tally of Pennsylvania’s votes, where Trump won 2,961,875 votes to Clinton’s 2,915,440, a difference of 46,435 votes. Add that to the official results out of Wisconsin, where Clinton lost by 22,177 votes, and Michigan, which she lost by 10,704 votes, and there you have it: 0.057 percent of total voters cost Clinton the presidency.

But it is worth considering just how few voters ultimately set the country on its current, arguably terrifying course. The 79,316 people who voted for Trump in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania—all states that Democrats carried since 1992—is less than the entire student body of Penn State (97,494 students), or only slightly more than the number of people who attended Desert Trip, the Baby Boomer-friendly music festival colloquially known as “Oldchella.” If you put all these voters in the Rose Bowl, there would be slightly over 13,000 seats left over. There are more people living in Nampa, Idaho, a city you have never heard of.

[regnaD kciN]

5. To provide a reality check...

…if you’re going to invoke Jill Stein, it should be noted that she was a fourth-party candidate, not a third. The Libertarian Party candidate, Gary Johnson, got around three times Stein’s vote total, including in those three swing states. In short, had neither Stein nor Johnson been on the ballot, it likely wouldn’t have changed the outcome – and TFG might have come within a whisker of winning the popular vote as well.

[Autumn]

6. Trump won those three states by 79,316 votes. He would not have even come close with winning

the popular vote.

[StevieM]

15. The evidence from the time made it clear that Gary Johnson took more vote from HRC than from Trump.

The suspicion that votes for the Libertarian candidate came disproportionately from the Republicans was never based in fact.

Not that any of this matters. Clinton lost the election because of James Comey and all of his antics. He made it impossible for her to win. James Comey dominated that election from start to finish.

[Demsrule86]

54. That is untrue...that is a bedtime story that those mostly on the left like Stein and some who

wanted a different candidate tell themselves late at night when they can't sleep-maybe because their conscience keeps them awake. In fact, some of them actively campaigned against Hillary Clinton. And they were not Libertarian. I hope they never have a peaceful moment again. They did so much damage to our Republic.

[yankee87]

63. So true

The voters who voted against Hillary should never have a moment of clear conscience again. I have LGBTQI children who are now marginalized because of this.

[W_HAMILTON]

21. The Libertarian Party actually has some real differences in ideology from Republicans.

You can't same the same about the Green Party and Democrats. The only difference between the two is how far they are willing to go in terms of achieving those ideals, with the Green Party wanting to go so far that their ideas become unfeasible politically.

I went through and actually compared their platform with the Democrats back then and the only difference was that the Green Party was against nuclear energy and the Democratic Party was for it -- and even that could be considered more of a difference in extreme rather than ideology.

Compare that to Libertarians vs. Republicans, both of which believe in some completely different things, most notably, the right to have an abortion (even though that has become somewhat of a murky area recently, as Libertarians are a small party and thus prone to having failed Republicans infiltrate them and re-direct their ideals and policies). But this wasn't the case in 2016, when Libertarians were in favor of legalizing abortion.

[W_HAMILTON]

20. Your evidence makes it even more clear that the OP is correct.

As I have said before and I will say till my last day on this Earth: fuck anyone and everyone that shit on Hillary in 2016 and helped depress the vote *just enough* to allow this disaster to happen.

And what pisses me off to no end is that some of those who did just that were the first ones criticizing this decision and having their names plastered in OPs all over our front page today. No, fuck them. They are the LAST PEOPLE I want to hear from at this point.

This was known. This was predicted. This was the expected outcome of not electing Hillary in 2016.

[calimary]

31. I'm right there with ya, W_HAMILTON.

Right there with ya. Hillary wasn't the only one robbed that night. We ALL were.

[leftstreet]

7. or Bush stealing the election from Gore

or Reagan fucking with hostages to steal the election from Carter

[iemanja]

12. Nice try

but no amount of distraction changes the fact that the present make-up of the court was determined under Trump, not in 1979.

[leftstreet]

19. If only Ginsburg had retired

oh well

[W_HAMILTON]

23. It wouldn't have mattered because it would still be 5-4. If only everyone on the left voted...

...for the obvious choice in 2016 and the candidate running on "the most progressive platform in party history" (Bernie Sanders's own words).

Stop blaming dead people for the decisions of these idiots.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. And the MAGATS will say, "Hell, yeah". I caught the last ...

5 minutes or so if the Katie Tur interview with Trump and an observation crystalized-- no matter how irrational or just plain untrue, Orange Shitstain keeps on talking. He steals the air from a room.

If you can pull it off, this is a powerful tool, which all the great leaders and pitchmen have mastered. The not so great, too.

45 would talk about his beautiful wall. Not the creaky phoney wall he built, but the magnificent wall of imagination that Mexico will still pay for. Tur never got around to asking him directly why, when in four years he got nowhere, we should give him four more.

But it would make no difference. She questioned with the fear that anything too close to the point would lead to him to closing the interview in what he thought was victory, and allowed him the lie that it was murderers, rapists, and dealers we let in. He proved simply that if you repeat a lie loudly and long enough it becomes the truth.

And he was loud. That is the secret to his appearance of success.

[Silent Type]

9. Hard to forget. Ultimately, too many Democrats protest voting gave us trump,

and an ultra-right Supreme Court.

[mahina]

10. I remember phone banking for weeks for Hillary

And many folks who supported others in the primary were there too, working together as one.

We were mostly calling Nevada if I recall.

Wish we did more.

[iemanja]

11. It wasn't about GoTV

It was about all the bullshit propaganda and lies spread about Hillary in 2019-20. All of that worked to suppress votes for her.

[Beastly Boy]

41. True.

Failure to get out the vote is a convenient excuse for Hillary bashers to hide behind. We cannot forget that the latter was the cause and the former was the effect, not the other way around.

[Hekate]

73. This, and Russian money to do it with

[2naSalit]

13. K&R

[mudstump]

14. I think it's more about liberal justices not retiring when Obama was in the White House.

[W_HAMILTON]

25. You think wrong then.

Kennedy wasn't a "liberal justice" and if you are blaming RBG, how about stop blaming dead people for the obviously dumb fucking decisions from those claiming to be on the left in 2016.

Stupid shit like this is why we are in the position we are today to begin with. People blaming good people on the left for the idiotic decisions of some morons on the left. It wasn't Hillary's fault, it wasn't RBG's fault, it wasn't Obama's fault -- it was the fault of the fucking idiots that claim to be progressive/liberal who depressed the vote in 2016 by constantly shitting on Hillary and/or not voting for her. Period. Full fucking stop.

[Autumn]

51. I agree.

[yardwork]

53. A Justice died while Obama was in the White House and he wasn't allowed to replace him.

Ginsberg was the only liberal Justice whose loss opened up a seat during Trump's presidency. The other two were conservatives. Trump replaced them with far worse. Clinton would have replaced all three with thoughtful justices.

Even if Ginsberg had retired and Obama been allowed to replace her, with Trump's election we'd still have these exact decisions, only 5-4.

[Hekate]

70. Bull. Check Mitch McConnell's record.

[StevieM]

16. This is so insane. 2016 was all about James Comey.

He dominated that election from start to finish.

Without Comey's repeated interference, Clinton would have defeated Trump decisively.

[Demsrule86]

56. No it wasn't. I don't say Comey didn't have an effect but those on the left who voted for Stein

allowed Trump to win.

[Model35mech]

68. "I told you" ism isn't particualry helpful at this moment

Yes, yes, shaudenfruede is personally satisfying, but that feeling while personally satisfying takes us, as a party, no place in particular.

Every campaign needs to attract votes.

When votes are not attracted, that isn't the fault of voters and those choosing to be non-voters. Although it might be blamed on illegal activity of the opposing party or parties, competing candidates etc.

A losing party must re-exam their approach and present something more attractive in the next elections. I-told-you-so-ism is a feature of looking into the past, the outcomes of our learning from the past must be used to shape the future.

[CarlitosMMT]

18. Her campaign blew it

I voted Hillary and was actually impressed with her steely resolve and candor.
But her allies were howling at the moon in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania that the campaign needed to devote resources there but were not listened to.
It was assumed these were blue wall states. But they fell and the election was lost by the tragic error to not devote more time and resource there. So it was a GOTV failure but led from the top and instead of blaming fence sitters, greens, or Bernie, it’s long past time to own up to it.

[Tetrachloride]

22. +++. Wisconsin still needs help.

Ron Johnson won.

[Tetrachloride]

24. Montana's Jon Tester will need help

[W_HAMILTON]

27. Her campaign didn't blow it. The voters blew it.

And she campaigned a ton in Pennsylvania, including holding one of her final rallies there. You apparently get your talking points from those on the left that constantly shit on her and helped depress the vote *just enough* to allow Trump to win and now they want to rewrite history because they don't want to be RIGHTFULLY blamed for their role in all of this. Do better, learn from their lessons, and help them learn as well because too many of them are still so fucking stupid to this day to not realize their direct role in leading to this disaster.

[CarlitosMMT]

33. When you GOTV they don't matter

These are well known facts about the end of the campaign. But you are still pissed, rightfully so, but not thinking clearly. We all thought Hillary would win. The lesson is not taking things for granted and the solution is not continuing to alienate left voters in broad swaths further energizing their disaffection.
The responsibility for a campaign is with the politician.

[betsuni]

39. What do you mean by continuing to alienate left voters in broad swaths?

How exactly? What is their "disaffection"?

If you're saying Hillary alienated anyone, it is a well know fact: "My team kept reminding me that we didn't want to alienate Bernie's supporters. President Obama urged me to grit my teeth and lay off Bernie as much as I could. I felt like I was in a straightjacket."

So what do you mean?

[yardwork]

61. Everything you said in that post is flat wrong.

As others have posted here, the difference was third party/write-in voters.

[Arazi]

30. +10 million

[calimary]

34. Welcome to DU, CarlitosMMT!

I voted for Hillary, too. Couldn't wait to do so! I felt so bad that she didn't win. But soon enough, feeling bad turned into feeling MAD - AS HELL!

[betsuni]

38. No. In Pennsylvania she had 500 staff, more than the Obama campaign, spent

211% more on TV ads, 25 campaign events in general election, surrogates such as President Obama and VP Biden. Michigan, 140 more staff than Obama, 166% more on TV ads, seven events during general election.

Polls showed Wisconsin steady. Tim Kaine, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders and other surrogates held events. New harsh voting laws, turnout (according to Priorities USA) reduced voter turnout by 200,000 votes, particularly in low income and minority areas. Hillary lost by 22,748 votes in Wisconsin. Trump received about the same number of votes as Romney did in 2012, no surge in Republican turnout.

Third party candidates received more than five million more votes than in 2012. Targeted propaganda.

In Michigan, voters who thought the economy was most important went for Hillary 51 to 43 Trump. Wisconsin, 52 to 42. Pennsylvania, 50 to 46.

"Here's the bottom line: I campaigned heavily across Pennsylvania, had an aggressive ground game and lots of advertising, and still lost by 44,000 votes, more than the margin in Michigan and Wisconsin combined. So it's just not credible that the best explanation for the outcome in those states -- and therefore the election -- was where I held rallies."

Don't know why people overestimate rallies. Biden didn't have many during the pandemic and still won.

After the Comey letter Hillary's lead shrank three points: "When both candidates seemed risky, then the desire for change reasserted itself and undecideds shifted to Trump or to a third party."

[yardwork]

60. Thank you for fighting the same old propaganda with facts.

[StevieM]

66. Excellent post. Thank you for correcting the record.

I was about to do so myself, but your post makes the point well. The claim that she ignored Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, let alone the entire Midwest, is pure fiction.

Also, Comey did a lot of damage with that little stunt he pulled in July with his press conference where he deliberately tricked people into thinking that she was guilty of something but somehow getting a free pass.

[betsuni]

74. It's a shame it's still necessary. It just won't go away.

They usually think Comey's effect and Russian interference are excuses. Somebody here used "flawed candidate" to describe Biden the other day.

[yardwork]

58. Your post proves the OP's point.

Those states ARE a blue wall, in election years where the Democratic nominee didn't have people voting third party and even writing in a primary opponent because so many voters were convinced that Hillary was a warmonger, didn't "earn" their votes, blah blah blah.

I know people who got swept up in that nonsense, spread by Russian trolls, helped along by the NY FBI office THAT HAD A RUSSIAN ASSET in it.

But even with Comey and Russian interference, plenty of us recognized how important that election was. A bunch of people who should have known better thought it was a good time to cosplay socialism and "prove a point."

[Hekate]

71. She won by 3 million votes & her people worked like all get out. Jill Stein's bosses ...

…played the margins very skillfully — just the margins. And the margins is where Hilary lost. You never saw that photo of Jillsie having dinner with Putin?

Hillary’s campaign did not blow it.

[czarjak]

26. Vlad figured out how to rig The EC by watching W and Rove in 2000.

[Tarc]

28. Y'all are getting trolled by a low post-count FReeper shill.

stirring up 2016 all over again.

Be better.

Alert this thread and move on.

[Beastly Boy]

42. Explain what you mean by "stirring up 2016 all over again"

I understand the need to move on, but I will never forget 2016. The two are not mutually exclusive, and we will be living with the consequences of 2016 for the foreseeable future.

Alert me all you want and call me a troll, but I will keep stirring up 2016 in reference to all the presidential elections for the rest of my life. And I will be better for it.

[Tarc]

46. It wasn't hard to understand, bud

Stirring up the Bernie vs. Hillary stuff. It's no good to pik at that scab again.

[Beastly Boy]

48. Not hard at all. I just wanted you to go on record with it, to eliminate any plausible deniability.

Just sweep 2016 under the rug and it will disappear, right? Even though it is clear as day that the lasting damage to the country by the ensuing clusterfuck is the direct consequence of the anti-Hillary sentiment being forcefully and persistently propagated back then despite repeated warnings of the damage it is bound to cause. And anyone who refuses to sweep it under the rug is a troll and, if the poster has low post count, a freeper shill (BTW, your rhetoric violated the DU terms of use. It is your luck that I, as a matter of principle, don't alert on or ghost anyone).

Picking at a scab and paying attention to its existence are not synonymous. Ignoring the scab, denying it, or neglecting it will not make the rotten stench of Trumpism, which is linked to it, disappear. When you pretend that any reminder of the deep wound covered by the scab is merely trolling or shilling, you are permitting the disease that caused the scab to fester.

It is your choice what you want to do about it, but don't put down people who, like myself, are paying attention to the stench still emanating from he wound just below the surface of the scab.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

50. Then maybe 11% of the bernbots

Shouldn't have voted for TFG.

Don't want people looking for root causes of the mess, don't be one of the root causes.

[betsuni]

75. +1

[Hekate]

64. There are so many of them in this thread I don't even know where to start

As for the OP — apparently chumming the water here still works

[Hekate]

69. I hope you did

[PlutosHeart]

29. Today is also a reminder

that if the Supreme Court is not halted asap they will damage this country rapidly for tRump in short order.

What is it that the Dems are not seeing in the urgency here? This is code red.

[BaronChocula]

32. Vexing that people need to see actual consequences

before realizing what they should have previously been aware of.

[ecstatic]

36. And even then it still doesn't seem like they get it

I'm trying hard not to log on to facebook for the first time in like 10 years and literally curse everyone out.

[BaronChocula]

52. Oh, I feel your pain.

Been needing to take extra deep breaths.

[ecstatic]

35. Oh yes. I had a fresh round of anger about 2016 today

I had to let off some steam. Sent a few angry texts. Now I'm just wondering what the next steps are. I think what angers me the most is that we're going backwards so quickly. How could we let this happen? People fought so hard for certain rights and now they're just gone in the blink of an eye, thanks to a corrupt and illegitimate Supreme Court with three justices appointed by a traitor. It's a lot to take in. Good night.

[PortTack]

37. There were many right here that were so mad that bernie did not get the nomination they didn't vote

And made their intentions clear despite being begged not to

[Jokerman]

43. The obligatory "Blame Bernie" post.

I know many. many people who worked for Bernie and not a single one of them wanted Trump to defeat Clinton.

The hard truth is that Bernie would have won the general election and the current supreme court wouldn't exist.

[Jedi Guy]

45. I don't believe for a minute that Bernie would've beat Trump in either election.

Consider that Trump was so desperate to run against Bernie in 2020 that he tried to blackmail Ukraine into providing dirt on Biden that'd damage him enough for Bernie to win the nomination. The GOP was chomping at the bit to take on Bernie over Biden.

Why? Because they had mountains and mountains of stuff they could use against Bernie in the general, including a whole bunch of stuff from Bernie's own mouth. You know they had the same back in 2016, too.

If they're desperate enough to sabotage Clinton and Biden so they can run against Bernie, that pretty much says it all.

[Demsrule86]

55. Well I know more than a few. And studies show the number of votes given to

Stein would have elected Hillary Clinton.

[yardwork]

62. Bernie didn't win the nomination. There was no way he'd win the GE.

[Hortensis]

44. Only ONE QUARTER of his primary voters. THREE QUARTERS always

intended to vote for Hillary if she was the Democratic nominee, and did.

Two very different groups, one always part of the Democratic whole, the other made no bones that they were not. It was their candidate or none. We all, of course, remember a fair number here who refused the membership requirement to support our nominee and left.

My own DIL, Danish and calls herself socialist, was among the 3/4, always knew her favorite, socialist candidate couldn't win. But otherwise time has only hardened down in her belief in him and also denial that the tRump campaign used the same big lies about Democrats in dozens of states "rigging" elections that his campaign sowed the nation with. In spite of all the evidence. Didn't happen and not the same thing at all. We seldom discuss. She votes for Democrats and that's what matters.

[GenThePerservering]

40. Just a reminder

this is a consequence of Reagan winning, and Bush (the shrub) winning and and and...

The past is past. What are we going to do for FUTURE?

Move forward NOT back.

"That is all"

[RANDYWILDMAN]

47. Blame the electoral college and russians and Mitch the turtle

many more people voted for Hillary then TGH

[LetMyPeopleVote]

49. Hillary warned us

Link to tweet

[LetMyPeopleVote]

57. Not Electing Hillary Clinton Was Our Biggest Mistake

Link to tweet

[DavidDvorkin]

59. No, the basic problem is the existence of the Electoral College

As long as we're stuck with that monstrosity, such awful outcomes are inevitable no matter how much we get out the vote.

[Hekate]

65. May I politely ask what is the point of this entire thread?

[ecstatic]

76. OP was posted on Thursday after the SCOTUS decisions.

I can't speak for the op, but people were angry and just needed to vent. Of course, it's hard not to think about Moscow Mitch or the 2016 elections when you consider the composition of the Supreme Court. THREE trump appointed assholes. Imagine where we'd be if President Obama and/or Hillary had appointed those justices. We'd be moving forward, not backwards.

[GenThePerservering]

67. I think this horse

died quite a while ago.

[edhopper]

72. We got out the vote

it's just that in 3 States a few idiots didn't understand the consequences of their protest votes. Do you think people here are not active enough or do not try to get people to vote for our candidate.

Sorry, we knew what would happen and fought to get Hillary in, a series events and a fucked up system doomed us.