Why do white men have the highest rates of gun ownership?

[Coventina]

"On the whole, gun owners are more likely to be White and male. They’re also more likely to live in rural areas and identify as Republican.

About 48% of White men say they own a gun, the Pew survey found. By contrast, 24% of White women and 24% of non-White men said they owned a gun. Women of color reported the lowest rates of gun ownership at 16%."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/02/us/gun-ownership-numbers-us-cec/index.html

Why are white men so scared that they feel they must own guns?

I mean, they admit they are scared, right? Because they need guns for "protection."

[roamer65]

1. I'm a gay male gun owner.

I own guns to protect myself from the MAGAt men you mention.

[BlackSkimmer]

21. I'm a gay woman.

Don’t carry a gun, and I feel no need to…never once in my life.

[roamer65]

66. You do you.

[maxsolomon]

23. Have you used your guns defensively?

Against conservative white men?

[roamer65]

67. I would if needed.

But I hope I never have to.

[leftyladyfrommo]

88. Oh, be careful. In KCMO there is an area overlooking the

river where business tycoons built huge mansions. A lot of wealthy gay guys have bought those houses and restored them. One man had hired 2 highschool boys to help him do something. Later they came back and were trying to steal his expensive electronics.

The owner heard them and grabbed his gun and ran downstairs. They got into a fight and he was killed by his own gun. He left a son.

[roamer65]

103. Dumb move.

Electronics are replaceable.

Now if the boys came upstairs and threatened his life that would have been different.

A gun should only ever come out if you TRULY fear for your life.

[vercetti2021]

78. As a white trans woman I also carry for this reason

That and being in a very conservative city

[roamer65]

79. ...

[vercetti2021]

80. Ain't no one need to shame us for protecting ourselves

Seems its a sin if someone is LGBTQ owns a gun. It somehow makes us no better than them.

[roamer65]

81. You got that right.

👍👍

I’m definitely not going to the gas chambers without a fight.

[vercetti2021]

83. Exactly

This would be what I'd do if I had to take others with me in the process. Go out in the most epic fashion

[roamer65]

84. ...or Harry Hart going to church.

[hunter]

110. I've never been in a situation where me having a gun would have improved the outcome in any way.

In my personal experience once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

I've seen the police shoot people I myself wouldn't have shot. I've lived in rough places where I've witnessed gunfights in front of my house. I've been threatened by people holding guns. I've been treated roughly by cops.

In my reckless youth I could extremely obnoxious, the sort of guy any gun-toting insecure white male might be tempted to shoot.

Through middle school until I quit high school, the bullies called me "queerbait" and frequently beat me bloody.

Then things got really weird.

I have a knife scar on my arm that reminds I shouldn't always say the first thing that pops into my head.

My primary methods of self defense are to walk away from potential trouble and to always wear shoes I can run in.

For my own mental health I don't let anyone I'd care to shoot (real or imagined) live in my head.

I'm not unfamiliar with guns.

[Ursus Rex]

111. A very sensible attitude.

I grew up in and around Mobile AL and was from a part of town that was especially rough, and I knew some pretty mean and hard folks, though they were good to me because of my dad and mom (who were also apparently mean and hard outside the house). There was one guy who was widely known to be the meanest and hardest SOB, who said one time at a card game where they were discussing guns, "I've never been in a situation where having a gun on me would have improved my chances," as you observed. Dad said that you could see several people subtly slide their chairs back a little after that.

[CTyankee]

122. I have wanted to say exactly this. In my lived experience, the presence of a gun worsens a bad

situation and if it weren't for the presence of the gun, a whole tragic scenario that played out in my family's life would NEVER have happened. Lives would have been saved. But the presence of the gun made all the difference. People would be alive.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. Some of its just cultural.

My dad’s family comes from a rural, western, background. They’ve always had guns for things like hunting and target shooting. My dad used to have a few guns but got rid of them when he stopped hunting. None of my relatives have been interested in owning an assault rifle or anything like that.

[Amishman]

130. a LOT of it is culture

My wife's family has shooting as part of just about every family get-together.

Tuesday we were using a can cannon (launches full beverage cans) and shooting the in-flight soda cans with shotguns. Super redneck skeet shooting.

They've even done exploding snowmen (exploding target buried inside the snowman, which they shoot).

They build guns for fun - my wife's teenage cousin built an AK-47 from parts, which she proudly showed off at a gathering.

For them it's a hobby and sport foremost - the 'this is a extremely lethal weapon designed to kill lots of other people' just isn't what they see or think about for the subject.

[Yavin4]

3. Because they desperately want to kill non-White people.

They're just waiting for the go-ahead.

[roamer65]

4. ...and LGBTQ+.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18065755

[MotorCityBeard]

9. Yep, using good old Leviticus as justification again

Only "abomination" listed in there that bothers them.

[Deep State Witch]

82. And Liberals in general

"Illegals", LGBTQ+, non-Christians, non-evangelical Christians, POC. They want to kill us all.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

86. Wrong

You forgot the sarcasm emoji.

If not, you are sadly mistaken. Sadly, not just for yourself, but for humanity, because it bodes poorly for humanity when such wildly untrue beliefs can be held.

[Yavin4]

99. Am I now?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218065755

[Chargedformula]

5. For Hunting and target shooting.

For me at least, it's like a fire extinguisher. I'd rather have one and not need it, than need it and not have one. Just because I have a fire extinguisher it doesnt mean I'm scared of a fire, id just rather be prepared.

[Silent Type]

6. Carry a defibrillator, you are much more likely to need one of those. Guess not as "empowering" as

as pistol tucked in your pants.

I'm sorry, the "I'd rather be prepared" rationalization for strapping on a gun to find the courage to walk out the door is false.

[Aristus]

12. Can you tell your fellow 'just being prepared' types to stop taking their fucking assault rifles

to Costco and Subway? You guys don't look 'prepared' when you do that; you just look like bullying dicks.

[hunter]

109. It's cosplay, like dressing up as a Klingon and carrying a plastic Bat'leth...

...except the guns are real and dangerous and those that carry them are fools.

It's odd how they only do it in places where they feel all cuddly safe and protected, faux tough guys who'd piss on a wall in Mr. Roger's Neighborhood to show how manly they are.

I live in a place where such gun cosplay is both unlawful and dangerous. If the police here don't take some cos-playing fool's gun (maybe shooting them in the process) some fourteen year old seeking gangster glory might.

[Chargedformula]

25. The question posed was why we own guns.

No mention of carrying anything.

[Kaleva]

27. Like putting on a seat belt before driving

I'm 64 and haven't been in an accident yet where a seat belt saved me from injury and yet I put it on every time I'm in a vehicle.

[Silent Type]

31. Guns aren't as passive as a seat belt, but nice try.

[Kaleva]

32. They are inert, passive items. They don't act on their own

[Caliman73]

57. They actually are.

A gun sitting on a surface without any human interaction is just a hunk of metal. It has the purpose and potention to fire projectiles which can be destructive and deadly, but without the interaction, they are passive.

The problem is that culturally, guns have been associated with "manhood". They have been sold as "problem solvers" and "independence". It is the culture and society that are messed up. The gun is a tool and symptom of the problem. If you look at a country like Switzerland where guns are required as part of citizen military service, but which are regulated and associated primarily with responsibility, there is a completely different attitude about guns.

[Silent Type]

59. "gun sitting on surface w/o human interaction is just hunk of metal." Yeah, waiting for 4 year old

to pick up and shoot himself or another innocent person.

You are not persuasive.

[Caliman73]

62. Operative words, "pick up" and "shoot".

I am not trying to persuade you. You don't seem open to accepting information.

That's okay. There are a lot of horrible things that have happened as a result of people doing bad things with guns. As I said, the purpose of a gun is to fire a projectile that can kill or destroy.

Some people use guns as a hobby or for their jobs. Other people use them to commit crimes and hurt and kill others. It is a highly charged topic and situation.

I prefer to look at systemic issues that influence behavior rather than essentializing people or imbuing objects with qualities they do not possess.

[marble falls]

29. That's just not an even analogy. When was anyone killed with their own fire extinguisher? ...

Guns are not safety gear.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

87. ya, when did anyone use a fire extinguisher for target practice?

That's no analogy.

But, guns have "saved" people before, and so have fire extinguishers.

The rationalization does not have to make sense in order to be a reason.

[MOMFUDSKI]

7. Testosterone.

And in the case of an OLDER man - it is a limp dick replacement. Sorry for the crudeness but that is all I can come up with. Bring it

[GoodRaisin]

45. Crude or not, it's the truth. nt

[sarisataka]

49. Interesting

Do you have a link to a study verifying this phenomenon?

[GoodRaisin]

52. It's what I have observed.

I don’t need a “study” to validate my observations. You may call it an opinion, no problem.

[sarisataka]

53. Ew, please don't

Tell me what the sample size is of your observations.

[GoodRaisin]

55. I don't plan to.

But if you have to have a study, the OP is actually a good sign post.

[Maru Kitteh]

56. Thanks to the all-meat-all-the-time diet promoted to US males, they're getting ED

at younger and younger ages so - no more waiting decades for your limp-dick-disease to set in guys! You too can express your MANLY MANLINESS by developing your very own peripheral artery disease in your mid-thirties and before! Viagra and gunz accessory package included FREE! Just pay a small shipping and handling charge. $19.95 while supplies last.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

89. OFFS

If high meat consumption were the cause of limp dick, our species would have gone extinct, long ago.

Try the chemicals in food these days--animal *and* plant, or the excess sugar consumption. Those are the more likely culprits.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

92. small man syndrome? small 's' on purpose!

They called them the great equalizer. I do suppose that huge men are less happy about guns being invented than are other men.

[GP6971]

105. Welcome to DU

I guess

[carpetbagger]

107. There's not much good data showing a difference.

There are studies out there, but very little reliably survives adjustment for other factors, such as waist circumference...

Very few mass shooters who are women of color, though, or white women either.

Welcome to DU.

[Johonny]

8. That's who the guns are marketed too

Marketing works.

[Sky Jewels]

10. Most of them are compensating for their insecurities by trying to control others.

They were born with a white penis and therefore they grew up thinking they were special and better than those non-white-penis-havers. They think they are entitled to things, and that everyone should be deferential to them. Deep down a lot of them realize they are not special -- they never achieved fame and fortune nor married supermodels, like they expected -- and that makes them angry. Buying and brandishing firearms makes them feel powerful and in control and covers up their insecurities, at least on the surface.

[llmart]

85. Best and most accurate answer yet.

I was going to say insecurity was the main reason. They are insecure in their manhood.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

90. Oh my gosh, terribly incorrect.

It's sad that you, and others that agree-like the reply you had, believe that white people grow up thinking that they are better than all non whites.

I grew up in an all white town and never had any reason to think poorly of other colors. In fact, after learning some history , I had a reason to think poorly of whites.

In this country, it may have been common to look down on black people due to the consequences of slavery.
I don't believe that other non-white-xxxxx-havers were as often looked down upon.

But no, none of this had much, if anything, to do with buying firearms.

[Sky Jewels]

112. Oh, so racism isn't really a problem, huh?

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

120. As the reason white people have guns? Correct

[Sky Jewels]

123. It's a major reason. Fear of dark-skinned people is drummed into

gullible white idiots 24/7 by Fox and hate radio.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

124. But there has always been huge ownership of weapons by white people.

Yes, Fox news does make people more scared of crime than would otherwise be the case.

However, if there were not different races, they would still breed fear: it would be directed at the high levels of crime committed by the people from the slums.

‘The American President’ (a movie), said much of it well.
It's about how they try to get you to believe that they should be the ones to work on the problems. It's a simple playbook of 2 things.

Two things only: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it.
So, be afraid of crime, and the left's policies are to blame.
A funny side note, the speech that this was a part of, ended with saying he would control guns.
lol

This would happen regardless of whether there were races or not.


But GOP wants your vote, and they need to cover up the idea that they are mostly on the rich people's side.

So, they distract from the most important issues and make other topics of indignation.
They embellish and even make stuff up.
No matter how bad they are, this gets them some votes.
I think abortion is part of this, some would not bring themselves to vote otherwise.

Lies and hot-button issues like,
Abuses kids.
Are pedophiles.
Will eliminate the right to go to church.
Will tax you 100% and give your money to those that are lazy.
And let them go in the women's rest rooms.


But, as far the main point of this thread, I believe white people had high rates of gun ownership before hate radio and Fox.

[GoodRaisin]

108. Guess it could be more of the white males "are Republicans" than the non white males.

No? I mean, if one watches Fox News the need for having guns is drilled into their heads all day long. Equated with “liberty” and “patriots” and “2nd Amendment” other such lies they are shovel fed throughout the day. You can’t be for all those myths without guns, no?

[Iggo]

13. Fear. (n/t)

[ForgedCrank]

14. Maybe it

has to do with culture in certain areas combined with local gun laws where people live?
I own quite a few firearms, and I just checked to be sure and nope, right now I don't feel "scared"at all.

[Chakaconcarne]

15. Generally, Rural Americans are mostly white and Republican...

They also tend to have greater use for guns than urban folks.

I believe it's more cultural than based on fear.

That is my opinion.

[ForgedCrank]

18. This is

more inline with reality.
In this thread I've seen numerous hateful conditions attributed to gun ownership. Everything from limp-dick, small dick, testosterone deficiency, the same old caricatures that I suppose make some people feel better? Who knows.
The real truth is that rural dwellers are generally white and republican, and many can walk out into their back yard and shoot firearms safely. They also have easy access to hunting, etc. So it makes sense that there are generally more firearms in those areas. There's no racial component here, even though that is the veiled assertion. The black fella down the road from me (one of the very few out this far) has a lot more guns that I do, some of them that require a special license and are more than I could ever afford even if I wanted one. In fact, he re-loads ammunition for a lot of us around here. It's his hobby and saves us a lot of money.

[Ferryboat]

47. Forgedcrank nailed it.

In rural areas of the country they are viewed as tools to be used.

Gun culture is far different in metropolitan areas than rural areas. Totally different mindset.

[Silent Type]

19. Gun marketeers know what they are doing. Here's and ad for the culture of gun carrying rubes.

?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale&format=webp

[GenThePerservering]

70. I recall that little campaign

it makes men look pretty pitiful, as if they have to buy their manhood.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

91. Rural is a big part

They historically hunted. Also, when you are very rural, you tend to think that the police will not respond quickly.
Then there are the farm animals that you may need to protect from a fox or something, perhaps.

Also, guns take money. And money is a part of our culture.

[shrike3]

125. Granted, I don't know every white rural American

But the ones I do know are obsessed with the notion that someday, someone out there is going to force them to be Dirty Harry.

One man I know carries wherever he go and stated that he was "a nervous wreck" when he forgot his gun at home. So, there is some fear. But again, I know only a small subset.

[sarisataka]

16. Are the white women

And POC gun owners not scared? Why do they own guns?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. Dang, you beat me to it.

[milestogo]

17. Why are white men so angry?

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

95. Why are humans so angry?

Having the most guns does not mean that they are the most angry.

[moondust]

20. Origins in slave patrols?

And mostly white settlers in the late 18th and most of the 19th centuries migrating to the Wild West?

~
Guns and lawlessness were a part of the frontier experience from the very beginnings of westward expansion. From the moment that settlers began moving across the Appalachians and into the Ohio Valley, the gun was an essential tool. The settler's rifle was a guarantee that he would never go hungry—and a means of fending off the Native Americans.
~
https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/wild-west-0

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

96. I believe the pilgrims all had guns

Pilgrims and the history of the country support a conclusion that have slave patrols were not a required factor.

[moondust]

127. Not just the patrols.

During and after slavery in the South white men owned guns for control and protection:

Southern aristocrats wanted armed militias mainly to control their slaves. So they wanted language in the new nation's constitution protecting that right.
~
How Slave Owners Dictated the Language of the 2nd Amendment

~
Southern men thus carried weapons both “as a protection against the slaves” and also to be prepared for “quarrels between freemen.”
~
The Slave-State Origins of Modern Gun Rights

Counties with more slaves in 1860 have higher gun ownership rates today, study finds

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

129. Nice links

Most republicans hated the COVID vaccine, and they hated, at least recently, voting by mail.
Now, many support Russia. Many are worried about which restroom will be used.

These preferences are seemingly because of what their leaders guide their 'group think' to be.
Many times, there is little or no racism in these views that differ widely from other groups.

So, if the GOP led their followers into NRA memberships, that could be a reason for GOP dominate areas to have guns.
White people that live in previous slave areas are more likely to be GOP, I believe.

Being in a rural area is perhaps the greatest indicator of ownership percentage, and these areas tend to be white, and republican.

Urban 19
Suburban 28
Rural 46

Try this one
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/americas-complex-relationship-with-guns/

This one tends to frequently break with the slave owning area theory.
Many states show levels that break with the theory.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

The following is no doubt tainted by things like GOP control level, gun laws, rural or not, etc.
Northeast 16
Midwest 32
South 36
West 31


Some of the data points to other things, at least to me. I know, in my life experience, that race was not a reason that people owned guns.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. "Why are white men so scared that they feel they must own guns?"

Why is this question asked only of white men?

[Coventina]

26. Because they own wayyyyyyyy more guns than any other demographic group. n/t

[Kaleva]

28. How many white women insist that their partner own a gun?

As white, Christian women believe that it's the man's job to protect them and the children.

[ForgedCrank]

75. They do?

My white, Christian wife isn't someone to fool with when she's out and about as she's more than capable of defending herself without my intervention. That's the way it is out here. She's also dispatched way more coyotes than I have. She gets a pretty good chuckle out of these comments.

[hunter]

114. The women in my wild west family have zero tolerance for fools with guns...

... and they consider most men fools.

My wild west great grandmothers were all the sort who could kill a bad man in righteous anger and ask the local sheriff-coroner to clean up the mess and fill out the paperwork. They weren't dependent upon men for anything. They weren't dependent upon their own husbands.

My wife is the child of a similar matriarchy.

[inthewind21]

116. WOW

So now it's white women insisting that while men own guns. Who knew!

[Kaleva]

119. Are you saying it's zero?

[uponit7771]

69. +1

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

94. because correlation is being confused for causation.

This question assumes, mostly - if not entirely, incorrectly that there must be a higher level of fear in white men.

[Sky Jewels]

113. Why do white men do the big majority of mass shootings?

[Kaleva]

30. History shows you can't fight fascists unarmed.

[Silent Type]

34. Problem is, guns aren't used to fight fascists here, unless kids and innocent people are fascists.

[Kaleva]

76. Do you think we should disarm in the face of rising fascism?

[Silent Type]

77. Sorry, you were likely a gun "enthusiast" long before MAGA. At least be honest.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

93. I'll suppose that History probably shows you can't fight fascists

I think that a cult type leader gets a fairly large portion of the populous to be fervent supporters.
Possible military types buy in quicker than average.
At a certain point, even if you want to change your mind, you are afraid to speak your mind.
And the guns are not enough in the hands of the side that does not control the military.

BTW, as far as the reason white men tend to have guns, another aspect was that they were to prevent the government from becoming tyrannical. And also to help repel any invaders.
It was a way to "keep freedom": Even though not all were free

[inthewind21]

117. LOL

To keep the government from from becoming tyrannical. That one is always good for a laugh.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

121. it is worthy of a rotflol

I don't know about the 1700's or 1800's
But today it is virtually ludicrous.

[Torchlight]

33. We can't imagine owning one

A topic that arises at our place every now and again.

When the NIH wrote 'For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides' that was more than enough for us.

Kinda put it into context for her and me, we decided it's just not worth the time, money, effort, or concentration to us to give the consideration even a third thought, let alone a first- or second-.

[Midnight Writer]

35. I am an old white man, and I have never seen a situation where I thought

"If only there were more guns involved here, this situation would be better".

I've been robbed, I've been burgled, I have had a young man put a gun to my head and make me beg for my life, I have had a cop beat me with the barrel of his shotgun, I have been in a bar where a shootout broke out.

Having a gun would not have made any of those situations better, even if I had it loaded and in my hand at all times.

[Model35mech]

36. That statistic appears to be for LEGAL gun ownership

Since illegal guns posessed in America is a real and large category, we can only guess that the rate of ownership is
white men own more than others.

[Coventina]

37. My question remains: Why do white men have such a need for guns?

[Model35mech]

38. Because they have disposable income and an interest I suppose.

A more interesting question would be whether white men have the highest rate of illegal gun possession

Or have the highest use of guns for illegal purposes.

Legal possession along with legal uses of a gun is really not a societal problem.

Bark bark, wrong tree.

[Coventina]

40. I keep hearing "Gun was purchased legally" in these recent mass shootings.

Seems the legality of the gun doesn't affect its lethality.

Oh yeah, the vast majority of these mass shooters are white men......

[Model35mech]

43. Illegal use is of course illegal even with a gun legally posessed

A gun can, of course, be lethal, whether by an intentional or not.

Legal ownership and legal use are, surprisingly, not illegal.

[Coventina]

44. Ah yes, the legal gun owner...up until the moment he decides to kill

So reassuring.

[Model35mech]

48. I'm not trying to reassure anyone about anything.

I'm trying to point things out about the data. It's the actual data, examined by epidemiologists and statisticians that will point to most significant events that should be control points. And that is something that can be broken down into a variety of types of events where the analysis will make the data look rather different


Do you know...

The vast majority of gun homocides are same race pulling the trigger and ending up dead.

Truth is Black men die of gun homicide at a rate above 50 per 100,000. Black women also die of gun homicides at a higher rate, around 8 per hundred thousand, in the US than other races

White men die of gun homicides at around 3 per hundred thousand.

Among gun deaths white men have a many times higher suicide rate by guns

[Bonx]

39. "Why are white men so scared that they feel they must own guns?" is a 'Loaded Question' Fallacy

[Coventina]

41. Why do white men purchase guns at far higher rates than any other demographic?

And don't try to tell me it's because hunting and target practice are suddenly exploding in popularity.

[Bonx]

42. No idea. Go research it.

[Coventina]

46. Scientific American found out:

These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes.

So...apparently white men think they can shoot their way into jobs, kill POC for threatening their families, and be a hero for doing so.

Sounds like white men have a problem. Problem number one is that they are delusional.

Unfortunately, the people most likely to be killed by the guns of white men aren’t the “bad guys,” presumably criminals or terrorists. It’s themselves—and their families.

White men aren’t just the Americans most likely to own guns; according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, they’re also the people most likely to put them in their own mouths and pull the trigger, especially when they’re in some kind of economic distress. A white man is three times more likely to shoot himself than a black man—while the chances that a white man will be killed by a black man are extremely slight. Most murders and shoot-outs don’t happen between strangers. They unfold within social networks, among people of the same race.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

Thanks for suggesting the Google!

[Caliman73]

60. "Problem number one is that they are delusional."

I have a bit of a problem with this. Delusions are beliefs held without evidence and are usually a sign of some mental illness. The problem is far greater and more complex than simply being "delusional". You need to ask yourself WHY, especially White men are having a problem finding "a new story". Why are they more likely to kill themselves during times of economic distress, etc...

White men, like many of us have been sold, by Capitalists, an increasingly false narrative of prosperity and dominance. White men have typically held a dominant role in society with some caveats related to wealth. They were the first to get the vote, they could serve in the military, had preferences for jobs, were able to establish and transfer wealth, etc... As the resources have accumulated at the very top of society, they have increasingly seen the disparity of their "top position" with the realities but the pressure still continues because their "failures" are seen not as the alienation of their labor from the rest of their lives, but as personal failure.

Men in general have put ourselves into a bind, where the only emotion acceptable to display is anger, so when things get so bad, we can't break down and cry, we get angry and lash out. When marketing for guns is targeted as "be a man", "protect", etc... then it creates a confluence of events that facilitate violence with the tool most accessible and effective at displaying power and anger.

I know that it is frustrating that this violence is occurring and people are getting killed, but when we continue to rain scorn on other victims rather than focusing on solutions, then we also perpetuate the problem.

[Coventina]

63. That sounds like "look what you made me do!" n/t

[Caliman73]

65. Depending on your perspective.

Like when conservatives blame people of color for rioting because of simply who they are. Or it can be an explanation of behavior, like when liberals discuss the reasons why people of color might engage in rioting as a response to the systemic racism they have faced.

Perspective is interesting.

We are all victims of the greed of wealthy and powerful people. Some very obviously, more than others. As I said, White men have been given status over most other people, but if you look historically, terms like "cracker" "white trash" and "hillbilly" which are used as pretty much the only disparaging terms for White men, were not given to them by people of color, but by wealthy White men. It certainly isn't about "look what you made me do" similar to the protests and riots engaged in by people of color and protest movement aren't such. It is simply an explanation of the factors that might contribute to problems rather than saying, "They are just like that..." I wonder why it isn't okay to do that about certain groups but okay to to that about others.

[uponit7771]

71. Sounds empirical enough to me

[Initech]

74. White men also highest percentage of listeners of AM call in talk radio shows...

And also highest percentage of Fox News viewers. I'm sensing a pattern here..

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

97. loaded, no pun intended?

It is a very poor question, given the context.

And even if some men are so scared that they "feel they must own guns" the question is so far off base that I feel you are corredt to call in a "Fallacy"

It is a question based on the asker's conclusions.

[usonian]

50. Because they have the most shame about their

[Model35mech]

54. from 2014 to 2019, in Chicago 79% of UUW arrestw were on blacks, 92% were male

52% were between 18 and 24 years of age. One could ask in a naive way why so many Blacks were using illegal weapons.

In addition to an increase in arrests, arrests for UUW are also much more likely to involve Black individuals than are arrests for other crimes; in 2019, 42% of all people arrested for weapon offenses in the United States were Black, while Blacks accounted for 37% of all arrests for serious violent crimes and 26% of arrests for all other offenses.[15] Again, trends in arrests for illegal possession of a firearm offenses likely differ from state to state, and community to community, as does the degree to which Blacks are overrepresented among those arrested. Research in Illinois found that while total statewide arrests for illegal firearm possession increased 70% between 2014 and 2019, specifically in Chicago (and Cook County) arrests for these offenses increased 85%, with much larger (and smaller) percent changes seen across other large jurisdictions in the state.[16] Throughout this period of increased arrests for illegal firearm possession were announcements by Chicago’s Mayor and Superintendent of Police regarding “crack downs” on illegal gun possession, suggesting the increase in arrests in Chicago were, at least partly, attributed to a greater focus by police on proactively looking for these crimes (i.e., through traffic stops and other on-view enforcement activity). In terms of the race of those arrested in Illinois, 79% of those arrested in Chicago (Cook County) were Black, compared to 54% of those arrested in the rest of Illinois for this offense being Black.[17] An even finer point, to illustrate the specific population most impacted by arrests for illegal firearm possession in Chicago (Cook County): 79% were Black, 92% were male, and 52% were between the ages of 18 and 24 (i.e., young, Black men).

https://firearmslaw.duke.edu/2022/01/illegal-firearm-possession-a-reflection-on-policies-and-practices-that-may-miss-the-mark-and-exacerbate-racial-disparity-in-the-justice-system/

But this really isn't quite as clean as a superficial look at the statistics might reveal...

Blacks in Chicago get targeted at elevated rates during crackdowns on crime (and probably in day to day policing), and not surprisingly this results in many criminal arrests. Felons are a banned group on the list of those prohibited from purchase and posession of firearms. So there are relatively many Blacks with criminal records that would make them prohibited from purchasing and posessing.

In this way, Blacks are very likely to be overrepresented UUW because of the way that the statistics are generated.

Is that fair? Should people look at the statistics with more care?

It isn't perfectly fair. And yes, people should look much more carefully at gun statistics

[NickB79]

58. I'd start by questioning the survey itself. After all, 1/3 of all Black men have a felony

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0049089X21001265

The rise in felony records has been disproportionate by race and varies substantially between states. Shannon et al. (2017) show that while the share of the total U.S. adult population with felony records is about 8 percent, the share of Black adults is about 23 percent. This rate is even higher for Black men, where one-third (33 percent) have a felony record (Shannon et al., 2017).

Frankly, that number blew my mind when I Googled it. I never realized it was THAT high!

So any survey that asks Black men whether or not they own firearms will be HEAVILY skewed by the fact that 1/3 of the Black male participants 1) can't legally own firearms, and 2) would be strongly averse to admitting possession of any illegal firearms.

With that in mind, we really have no way of concluding that White men actually do have a higher possession rate. Given the higher levels of disposable income, it's possible, but I'd like to see how Pew controlled for the felony variable.

[Model35mech]

61. The only data available on illegal gun possession comes thru arrest records

And those would obviously not include illegal gun possession that has not yet been caught with an arrest.

You are correct that it seems quite unlikely that people would admit to a criminal offense to complete a survey.

[Fla_Democrat]

68. Felony, and Urban vs Rural

As it is pointed out all the times, there are more AA men in the justice system than in higher education. As you note, being a felon makes one a prohibited possessor. Although there are lawsuits working their way through the system to restore the firearm rights of nonviolent felons. Will have to see how those go. Fingers crossed.

Urban firearms owners are at a disadvantage when it comes to ranges. MantisX is nice, but will only get you so far. While there are indoor ranges around, they are generally a pain to open and maintain. Also, the lanes are limited. Hard to have a 400 yard range in downtown Gotham, but the range I go to has bays from 25 yards to 400, with skeet and trap shooting to boot. Also rural is not restricted to professional ranges, I know several people that have their own ranges in their back 40. Nothing as fancy as Hickock45 or Demolition Ranch, but still for friends and family, it's a nice way to spend an afternoon. Some rural counties (down here, at least) have county ranges, open to residents.

I think both weigh heavy, but rural may be a bit of a scale tipper. People are people, the desire to protect your family, home and pets have little to do with skin color. Chances are a bear isn't going to be ravaging an apartment dwellers parakeet cage, but they will make a mess of a chicken coop. A coyote isn't going to snatch someone Maltese while they are waiting at the elevator, but send your terrier out to do it's business, and it could happen.

Though, I don't expect any hoplophobes to agree to anything but pee-pee size.

[Rob H.]

64. Around here there are a lot of hunters, including my dad and cousins

My dad has rifles and shotguns he uses for hunting and I have some .22 pistols I use for target shooting.

[GenThePerservering]

72. I think too many men are easily triggered

and have little emotional maturity - they were never encouraged to grow up to handle life stressors (like disagreement) in a productive manner. Basically, they start crying and whining like 4 year olds.

For a lot more men I think it's cultural - there has always been gun ownership in the family - hunting and the like, for instance. I note that those I know who are very responsible with weapons are of the cultural type - safety and responsible ownership first (no kid is going to get their hands on any weapons) and they don't tend to own AK-15s, etc. They pretty much all hunt for the table.

[Initech]

73. White men also the highest percentage of listeners of right wing call in shows.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

98. White men also have the highest percentage of the wealth.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .

Probably a better reason than yours, because white men had a higher percentage of guns even before radio existed.

[Initech]

100. It's all connected!

He who owns the wealth owns the guns owns the power.

[prodigitalson]

101. nothing more calming than a DU gun thread

i wish i could bottle the serenity they bring me

[Celerity]

102. Some of these replies show just how fucked the US is when it comes to the hundreds of millions of

guns floating about the fruited plain.

The 2nd Amendment, as interpreted for ages, is likely a a key foundational element in a national suicide pact at some future point in time.

[GenThePerservering]

106. This is so deeply rooted in patriarchy

and men owning power - guns are just a part of that.

[SYFROYH]

115. Seems low to me.

Last edited Thu Jul 6, 2023, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

It would be interesting to see the historical data because I suspect the gap is closing between white male rates of gun ownership and other groups.

[edisdead]

126. Racism, bigotry and fear?

[flvegan]

128. White male owner of guns checking in!

I live in a violent city and a violent society. I consider myself prepared, not scared. I'm bigger and stronger than 95% of anyone I'll see today, and that doesn't matter. Not really much different than having a home alarm, security cameras...or is that admitting fear as well? Is locking doors fear too? I don't carry concealed regardless of the new FL law. My guns never leave my house.

Also, as a vegan of over 20 years, but who still owns guns, I have partaken in far, far less violence than 99% of anyone else responding before lunch of any given day. I don't believe in violence, yet here we are. Is it accurate from the article to mention that CNN article and Pew survey to be of 3,930 adults, including 1,269 gun owners 6 years ago? I only looked briefly, but if so, that seems...clickbaity.

That said: Please stop generalizing. If anyone is trying to equate that being male, white and owning a gun equates somehow to being republican, try again. If it's being suggested that "white men are so scared they feel they must own guns" please, just stop.

Recap: White, male, gun owner. Has committed less violence than almost all of you today, and every other day, and every day going forward. God willing.