The consequences of ONE election.

[kpete]

[Oopsie Daisy]

1. I blame our so-called allies who sabotaged her campaign, or who were no-shows, or slow-shows.

[betsuni]

4. +1

[xocetaceans]

88. Since you indicated support for the comment, what are "slow-shows"? It seems that those would be...

...Democratic voters just the same as you or me. If so, why support criticism of people who voted for Hillary Clinton? A vote for a D is still a vote for a D: there's no such thing as a voter's velocity.

[Oopsie Daisy]

90. Post #57 might provide an answer to your question.

[betsuni]

102. Partisan Democrats who strongly identify as such vote Democratic: the base.

The need to be persuaded and inspired to vote, threaten not to vote as personal punishment for candidates, holding their nose or voting for the lesser of two evils, their vote must be "earned" somehow, think both sides same: not the base. Democratic-leaning independents. Slow-shows because less familiar with the party and vulnerable to anti-Democratic propaganda. A growing number.

"In 2008, there was little doubt that Clinton's supporters were still mainly Democrats who overwhelmingly disapproved of incumbent Republican president George W. Bush's job performance. Sanders voters, by contrast, had weaker Democratic identities and were less likely to approve strongly of Obama. Clinton would face the significant challenge of wooing Sanders voters and turning them out to vote in November."

From "Identity Crisis"

[xocetaceans]

113. Thanks for the citation of the book and the explanation.

Would you recommend the book? It looks reasonable, but it's not an experience that seems worth reliving. It seems like it would be almost as enjoyable as reading of W's "election" in 2000.

[betsuni]

118. I love the book, cite it often, full of useful data. Wish they'd done a study about 2020 too.

I'm fascinated by the 2016 election because so many things happened from all directions, a true perfect storm. No other American election was or will be like it and I wish there were more books about it. I'll never tire of studying it and trying to prevent history from repeating itself by correcting misinformation, which still happens every day.

[2naSalit]

5. +1

[jaxexpat]

7. So long as there are headline readers there will be headline writers.

Headlines are that aspect of journalism which can inspire or deflect urgency. So long as we accept the easy answer, the bumper sticker version, we will fail to vote correctly or vote at all.

The traitors in our midst are the bumper sticker writers and those who provide the peel-n-stick on the back.

[90-percent]

10. Hey, I'm an unpaid bumper sticker writer!

Here's some samples of my work:

Don't blame me, I'm AGAINST fascism

Our Institutions are infested with corrupt sociopaths

Frank Zappa is my co-pilot

-90% Jimmy

[Oopsie Daisy]

78. There's good money to be made in that career.

[radical noodle]

19. I will never get over

seeing some of them celebrating trump's election. One of the worst moments of my life.

[FoxNewsSucks]

42. Those people were never liberals or Democrats.

[Oopsie Daisy]

135. They were certainly not loyal Democrats and not loyal to the Party.

They were certainly not loyal Democrats and not loyal to the Party. But I think I'll take them at their word when it comes to how they self-identified (whether it was "liberal" or "progressive" or "green" or "socialist" or even "Democratic-Socialist"] and there were certainly plenty celebration and told-you-so parties and taunting.

[SouthernDem4ever]

43. That was when we turned into bizarro world

It is a continuing nightmare.

[AllaN01Bear]

53. if u were around for the gore v bush and the ronald raygun

v carter affir. those were crushing . i never recovered from those .esp the iran contra affair and poindexter being the fall guy.

[calimary]

76. Oh MAN, those were miserable and deeply disturbing days.

I remember having to fight against discouragement in my own mind. Reagan was HELL. Absolute HELL. And it was all because he was such an effective and compelling salesman. And he sold shit while characterizing it as a no-government/no regulations/no restraints Garden of Eden. And WAY TOO MANY marks believed it and swallowed it whole. Mainly, I suspect, because they desperately WANTED that shit to work, and to taste like prime rib.

It STILL tasted like shit. But they were so lulled into complacency by what sounded so good when it slithered off of his forked tongue that they didn’t even notice. And sadly enough, there are way too many marks out there who still yearn for more of that same shit. No wonder they gravitated to the next Repub “savior” with the fake yellow rats nest on his head, because he’s a pretty skilled shit-salesman in his own right.

[radical noodle]

99. I'm so old...

I was an adult during Watergate. You're right... we've gone through some awful times. But for me, never as bad as seeing someone like trump in the White House and watching him try to destroy our very democracy.

[calguy]

125. I'm probably as old as you are

And I agree. Trump's victory was the saddest time I can remember after any election.

[stopdiggin]

45. so very true.

but then that glances (or glosses) over, the near 50% of this country that were willing (or even enthusiastic) to pull the lever for a 'clearly unfit', indeed toxic, candidate - with the deplorable consequences that followed that shameful choice.

That cavalier approach to politics, and country - needs to be acknowledged as well.

[JI7]

108. Led by the Bigoted right wing Fraud Tulsi Gabbard

[Maine Abu El Banat]

2. Someone please tell that to

Susan Sarandon.

[calguy]

36. Don't forget the Bernie Bros.

[wryter2000]

40. I met one the other day

She says she hates Hilary and Biden, her word. She likes Nina Turner. It might be because she's from Hungary and doesn't really understand our politics.

[FoxNewsSucks]

46. Sanders supporters like myself who are liberals, not just "change" voters,

voted for and supported Democratic candidates. Sanders to this day has been one of Biden's best allies.

For that matter, Sanders campaigned far harder for Clinton than she did for Obama. I'm really tired of my support and vote being taken for granted, then going online to read that somehow it's the fault of people like me that we got stuck with the orange anus.

[calguy]

49. I don't blame all the Bernie Bros

Who voted for Hillary after their candidate lost the nomination.
Had Hillary lost his nomination to Bernie I would have voted for him.

It's the hard core Bernie folks who refused to support or vote for our nominee that contributed to our narrow loss in 2016.

[Oopsie Daisy]

57. True.

Here are some other true-facts that are often forgotten or ignored or glossed over. During the 2008 Democratic National Convention, when Barack Obama was officially nominated for President, Hillary Clinton moved to suspend the rules and nominate Obama by acclamation. This gesture was seen as a symbolic gesture of party unity and helped to signal to her supporters that it was time to come together behind Obama's candidacy.

In contrast, during the 2016 Democratic National Convention, the roll call vote proceeded until Hillary Clinton had secured the nomination. While there were some vocal supporters of Bernie Sanders who protested the outcome, and who boo'd and heckled John Lewis's speech, Clinton delivered a unifying speech that emphasized the need for Democrats to come together in support of her candidacy and defeat Donald Trump in the general election.

It's also true that following the 2008 Democratic National Convention, Hillary Clinton quickly joined Barack Obama's bus tour and continued to campaign for him until Election Day. Her support for Obama was seen as crucial in helping to bring her supporters into the fold and unite the party behind his candidacy.

In contrast, following the 2016 Democratic National Convention, Bernie Sanders did not immediately campaign for Hillary Clinton. He took some time off to regroup and plan his next steps, which included launching a new political organization called Our Revolution. About five weeks later (around Labor Day) Sanders did eventually campaign for Clinton in New Hampshire, and urged his supporters to back her candidacy, but the delay in his endorsement and campaigning was seen by some as a missed opportunity to unify the party earlier. Also, many pundits argued that his delay in endorsing and campaigning for Clinton may have contributed to her defeat in the general election.

It is worth noting that the circumstances surrounding the 2016 Democratic National Convention were different from those in 2008. The 2008 race was often described as a battle of ideas between two candidates with similar platforms, while the 2016 race was marked by more personal animosity toward Clinton, and a more contentious primary season overall.

There are mistakes in every campaign. The big question is whether we learn from those mistakes.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

59. I was a Clinton delegate to the 2016 convention

I saw everything you described. The Clinton campaign had a whipping infrastructure in place and I was warned about the booing of Congressman Lewis and others 20 or 30 minutes in advance of these stunts.

[Oopsie Daisy]

61. That's fantastic! You're fortunate to have been there (despite the nastiness and unpleasantness.)👍

[LetMyPeopleVote]

67. This was my first and probably only Democratic National Convention

Normally going to a national convention is a once in a lifetime experience. I had worked really hard inside the party on campaigns and voter protection issues for a very long time to be be in the position to run for and be elected as delegate. Too bad that Sanders and his vetted delegates ruined that experience and did their best to help TFG. A candidate has absolute approval rights over their pledged delegates because these delegates can change their votes and these delegates represent the candidate and campaign. I helped vet Clinton delegates and I know that I was vetted. The Clinton campaign told us that we represent her and that our actions would reflect on her and her campaign.

In contrast, Sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the Sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis., Elijah Cummings and Stach Abrams. I was warned about each of these stunts 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, Sanders was asked to stop this event and declined. That incident will be used against sanders if he runs in 2020.

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of Sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to Sanders.

Sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that Sanders talked about was himself. Sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally, a group of Sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. My daughter was my guest and she got to attend the first night and see Michelle Obama. Again, Sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and Sanders refused.

Texas may change the way it selects delegates next cycle, and I will see if I want to run. I was a day one contributor to Joe Biden and got to meet Joe Biden at two different private fundraisers. I was amused when Joe signed some floor speech signs from his speech at the 2016 convention while not missing a beat talking to another guest. Joe then took my iPhone took three selfies with me better than I could do. At the next fundraiser, I had maxxed out for the primary and so got to talk to Joe about stuttering.

The process of running for and getting elected to be a delegate to a national convention takes a great deal effort and you still have to be vetted before you are an official delegate. I have friends who were at the 2008 and 2012 conventions, and they had a good time. Time will tell if I try again.

[Oopsie Daisy]

71. The hatred in that video is disturbing.

I'm not surprised by your other descriptions of events, except for the part about your daughter being verbally assaulted. I have no words to express how angry that makes me.

Vetting is important.

[MerryHolidays]

101. And while I think Bernie Sanders is great...

I think Russia did a LOT to create dissension in the Democratic Party in 2016.

Not taking away anything from Sen. Sanders, but...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

[Oopsie Daisy]

131. Of course they did. I wonder if anyone inside their respective campaigns knew.

[betsuni]

132. They knew in April and May: "But why didn't you go to your supporters? Why didn't you take

that public?"

"Well, we knew what we did know. But ... you know ... somebody ... Look, in the midst of all this I was out campaigning very hard for Hillary Clinton. I don't ... Let me leave it at that."

"Why leave it at that? It was a specific question about why didn't you go to your supporters. ... If you and your campaign knew that there was Russian meddling trying to sow division, why not take that to supporters, many of whom hang on your every word, as you know."

"I would say, the real question that should be asked was what was the Clinton campaign ... they had more information about that than we did."

"So did the Clinton campaign say don't talk about it?

"No, just ... but."

Vermont Public, interview by Jane Lindholm, Feb. 21, 2018

The " " things mean these are what subject and interviewer said as I wrote them down, I didn't make it up.

[Oopsie Daisy]

133. That's disappointing, isn't it?

[betsuni]

134. Yes.

[Me.]

80. Bravo

Time this was aired

[calguy]

86. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[betsuni]

95. +1

[krkaufman]

106. Oh, FFS, get over it. Quit fixating.

There are a LOT of reasons why Hillary lost, with the main ones being decades of negative coverage and James Comey. Projections had her winning and a likely sweep of the House and Senate prior to Comey’s announcement Re: reopening the email investigation based on Weiner’s laptop.

I won’t hold my breath that there will be a sudden epiphany after 7 years of blamecasting.

[AntivaxHunters]

137. "Blamecasting"

10/10 will use

[inthewind21]

142. Uh huh

let the excuses flow.

[Oopsie Daisy]

63. The statement about Clinton is not true.

What makes you feel that you're being taken for granted? I've heard many who complained that Hillary would have to "earn their vote" and that always struck me as being selfish considering the stakes. But I've never heard anyone complain about being taken for granted. Can you elaborate on that?

[betsuni]

87. I'd like to know, too. That the Democratic Party takes for granted, doesn't listen to, ignores

people is the myth they fool people into voting for them with "identity politics" with an Establishment liberal elite deciding which groups to favor. The usual ignore-victims are the white working class (the imaginary "economic anxiety" voters) and anti-establishment types who imagine the big bad Establishment is out to get them.

And yes, the statement about Clinton is not true. Obviously! As she always does, she started working hard on campaigning for other Democrats.

[krkaufman]

107. You just did it yourself.

If people are just expected to vote for a given person regardless of positions, policy, platforms, those people are being taken for granted. Quite literally.

[betsuni]

117. What was the problem with the party platform, the most progressive in history, as was the 2020

party platform? What's the problem with progressive Democratic policy? How is a progressive administration taking anyone for granted?

"If people are just expected to vote for a given person regardless of positions, policy, platforms" -- what do you mean? What was wrong with the last three progressive Democratic presidential nominees -- were they the same as Republicans? How? Please explain.

[betsuni]

123. "Anointed" LOL.

"Rigged."

[inthewind21]

144. No

People are expected to have enough sense to have the most basic civics knowledge and understand what would happen if someone like Trump was elected. Especially in light of the fact that Republicans have been telling us all for the past 50 years EXACTLY what their plan was.

There were 2 choices, and ONLY 2 choices in 2016, vote for the DEM or risk a Trump. Doesn't matter if you like that system or not, it's the system we have. It's just that simple. Those in the "she just didn't earn my vote" who voted 3rd party or didn't vote at all, shouldn't be shocked at all about the SC, the congress or any other fucked up thing the Trump presidency created. So tell me, how'd that "earn my vote" work out for you? You're perfectly ok with the current state of affairs yes? I mean after all, you sure showed the DEMS right? And as for the wailing and butt hurt bullshit "Biden needs to fix it!", "Biden's too old" "Biden needs to "earn my vote". That is spewed here on a daily basis, clearly NOTHING has been learned. So, you go right ahead and ignore the past and demand you're vote be earned. And when the shit gets worse, keep it to yourself. You have a choice. And when you make that choice, own it, and live with it.

[Skittles]

82. Sanders was NEVER going to president

all he did for Hillary was not enough and far too late

[ShazzieB]

85. +1

[Oopsie Daisy]

89. True.

If we let people continue to gloss-over what really happened and not tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then it will happen again I fear.

[calimary]

91. True. I remember that. I was ardently for Hillary.

I STILL think she’d make a world-class president, and I wanted her brains working on our problems. Another outstanding resource wasted.

And I am still trying to find a way to forgive Bernie “too little too late” Sanders. And still not succeeding.

[Skittles]

103. I cannot say what I think of him

don't want to be dinged.....

[calimary]

105. I can guess. I bet I feel the exact same way.

[betsuni]

138. I LOVE what Roy Delfino says about him.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

139. Sanders voters voted for Clinton than Clinton voters voted for Obama.

So he did a better job than Hillary did for Obama. But don't let that impact your bashing of Sanders.

[inthewind21]

145. LOL

I guess whatever allows you to sleep at night.

[lapucelle]

162. ...

https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi%3A10.7910/DVN/GDF6Z0

[betsuni]

93. Hillary held her first campaign event a few weeks after the convention, Sanders not until September

until after he had written his book "Our Revolution."

Huma Abedin:

"We held our first campaign event for Obama a few weeks later in Unity, New Hampshire ... . By the fall, we were settled into a steady rhythm of Senate events and surrogate events for the Obama campaign. Most days felt okay. ... HRC campaigned hard for Obama and was greeted everywhere with enthusiasm, love, and gratitude. She gave it right back, slowly making her way around every rope line, shaking every hand, smiling for every photo, signing every campaign poster."

Hillary had also helped Obama with his run for senator, as she does for many Democrats. "'Bill,' she said, 'I just met our next African-American president. We did some great events here in Chicago. You have to come out to help him too.'"

No, Sanders did not campaign harder for Clinton than she did for Obama.

[krkaufman]

111. Alternate source?

Huma isn’t exactly an unbiased source.

[betsuni]

114. Obama: "At the end of our contest, I saw the grace and the energy with which she threw herself

Last edited Sun Jul 9, 2023, 02:45 AM - Edit history (2)

into my campaign. We may have gone toe to toe from coast to coast, but we stood shoulder to shoulder with the ideals we shared."

Wow. So Obama, Hillary, Huma, other Democrats and everyone else who attended those events imagined it, or lied about it? It's a diabolical conspiracy? She didn't start campaigning for Obama a few weeks after the convention and from then on until the election? Huh? Do you have sources for that? Please post them, love to see it!

[lapucelle]

164. ...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?206208-3/obama-campaign-rally-unity-hampshire

https://www.npr.org/2008/06/27/91975550/clinton-obama-unite-in-unity-n-h

[LetMyPeopleVote]

129. That is what I saw also

[betsuni]

130. June 27 was Hillary's first rally with Obama.

Big difference between June and September.

[AntivaxHunters]

136. Excuse me

But don't blame us for this. We're not the ones responsible.
Place that blame where it truly belongs; on the Electoral College. Hillary won the popular vote. That's where your blame should be placed.

[calguy]

140. Excuse me right back at you

I have no idea whether you voted for Hillary or not, and it's all just water under the bridge at this point.
The Electoral College, as imperfect as it is, has been our system since the beginning of our country, or pretty close to it.

For you to blame Hillary's loss on the EC is nothing short of ridiculous. Bernie and his most radical followers weren't the entire reason for our '16 loss, but they were significant contributors.

I call BS on the notion that it's the system's fault rather than those who turned up their noses on our nominee because she wasn't the 'perfect' candidate.

[AntivaxHunters]

149. She lost because of the Electoral College

Why are you defending an anti-democratic & racist institution that is the Electoral College? And no it hasn't always been that way either. Are you aware why the EC even exists?

Hillary won the popular vote & she should be president today.
It's literally the fault of the system.
The EC needs to go.


https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/electoral-colleges-racist-origins

[calguy]

151. We play by the rules that are established

I know hard core Bernie supporters will never admit they had a hand in helping trump into the White House and will always be in denial.
Have a nice day.

[inthewind21]

153. 'And no it hasn't always been that way either. Are you aware why the EC even exists?"

Didn't actually read your own post huh.

[calguy]

163. I know what I wrote, and I know there's nothing I can say...

to get you to admit that hard core Bernie supporters were complicit in our party's 2016 loss. I know you'll come up with any excuse you can to deny it, but that won't change the fact that too many of you refused to support our candidate when your candidate didn't win the nomination.

Hillary wasn't perfect, no candidate ever is, but to not support the candidate of our party is inexcusable, as far as I'm concerned.

You can blame the EC all you want, but the fact remains that the blame rests in the laps of all those who sat out the election or voted for Jill Stein.

Have a nice day.

[Skittles]

152. yes

there were many reasons, and some sucked entirely, were more fucking senseless than others

NEVER forgive, nope

[inthewind21]

146. SO

Did you just become aware of the electoral college in 2016?

[AntivaxHunters]

150. Why the gaslighting?

Don't gaslight me it won't work & is a form of abuse. Do better.

https://www.newportinstitute.com/resources/mental-health/what_is_gaslighting_abuse/

[inthewind21]

154. lol

So a question is gaslighting to you. Interesting. Didn't read your own article this time either huh.

[Cha]

74. She doesn't give a self righteous shit.

wth does she care.. she has her Millions.

[samnsara]

3. and what if SCOTUS had awarded the POTUS to Gore?

..how much healthier our planet would be....

[raging moderate]

6. Or if SCOTUS had simply NOT declared Bush President?

Last edited Sat Jul 8, 2023, 09:00 AM - Edit history (1)

If the vote-counting had been ALLOWED to continue according to LAW, it would have become obvious that ALBERT GORE had been elected President of the United States.

[90-percent]

12. that SC Bush v. Gore ruling

taught the Supreme Court that they can make their decisions based on political or religious or outright sadistic reasons, instead of established law or precedent.

I'm old enough to remember a time when the SC wasn't hell bent on destroying our Democratic Republic.

After all, our Founding Fathers were totally ga-ga over minority rule by the morbidly wealthy.







-90% jimmy

[flying_wahini]

64. Thanks to Kavanaugh, Roger Stone and the other "officials".

[bronxiteforever]

13. +1 absolutely

[yardwork]

14. This.

[paleotn]

18. Perhaps, but if Ralph Nader hadn't required an ego boost....

many of his votes in FL would have gone to Gore and the SCOTUS ruling would never have happened.

Official tally...

George W. Bush 2,912,790
Albert Gore Jr. 2,912,253
Ralph Nader 97,488

[yardwork]

21. The same could be said of Jill Stein in 2016, but see below.

There is a righteous rant that puts the fault back where it truly belongs: on we the voters.

Somehow, most of us folks who are here on DU today managed to see through Russian troll interference, false equivalencies, something about the DNC and pizza, third party candidates who are always with us, and the various other obstacles to showing up and voting for the Democrat in 2016 - and every other election.

And maybe some of us who voted for the Democrat still could have done even more. So maybe the soul searching belongs within us.

[paleotn]

26. End of the day, yes. That's where the fault belongs.

Democracy isn't easy and far too many Americans don't vote or don't pay attention. Like all freedoms, the freedom to chose our own leadership comes with responsibilities. To think clearly and critically and make rational decisions. Some say that's too much to expect from everyday humans, but the African American community has been doing that for ages. Marginalized communities can't afford not to.

[yardwork]

29. Yes, and African American voters don't sit out elections when they don't get everything they need.

Black voters are still seeking justice and equity, but they don't vote third party "to send a message" or sit out elections because "none of the candidates earned my vote and I'm just not feeling it."

[SouthernDem4ever]

35. I beg to differ

I had plenty of friends buying into some propaganda crap saying "voting makes no difference" and "both parties are corrupt and don't care about you". It took a lot of work to convince some of them to vote. Of course my favorite is still " republicans were responsible for your emancipation" which made a few consider become repuglican. Those were fun conversations too.

[stopdiggin]

50. yes. to claim that this or that 'group'

is free of shallow engagement or flat out misinformation - is to hugely over estimate and overstate the case. Remember all the latinos that would 'never' vote Republican? Guess what .. ?

Butt hurt (and completely cynical) blacks - are hardly an unknown species ...

[Keepthesoulalive]

51. Outliers

The majority of black people have voted for Democrats since the 60’s.
The majority of white people have voted for Republicans.

[SouthernDem4ever]

54. While that may apply to some demographics

If you recall, Michelle Obama went on a rural tour once and warned everyone that her husband only won some areas by 10 votes (can't remember the actual number she quoted but was close to that) so every vote does count which is why I can't use that line of thinking anymore. Couple that wit the fact you have a South Carolina elected Senator and a SCOTUS associate justice who can lie to himself and everyone else - I still worry.

[yardwork]

56. As a whole, the vast majority of Black voters vote Democratic.

While a strong majority of whites vote Republican.

This is true in election after election. As a group, Black women, in particular, are extremely reliable Democratic voters. In comparison, majorities of both women and men vote Republican, including supporting Trump in 2020.

As a white woman, I'm realizing that I need to do more.

[inthewind21]

147. Wil all due respect

"I had plenty of friends" is completely irrelevant in a country of 330 million. I

[SouthernDem4ever]

148. Sorry, I can only go by my experiences

I don't own a survey company.

[SalamanderSleeps]

30. This.

[FoxNewsSucks]

47. Or if there hadn't been cheating and stealing.

Far more than 97k black Democratic voters were prevented from voting.

That's what gave the election to war criminal Bush. Cheating, which made it close enough to steal.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

68. Karl Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004

Remember that Nader was funded by Karl Rove in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

[SunSeeker]

75. And Nader happily took their dirty money.

[DENVERPOPS]

115. The USSC

had absolutely NO Legal standing....... to intervene with the vote count which would have made Gore President.
They intentionally intervened, corruptly to literally "throw" the Election.......

I was irate when i watched that and heard countless legal authorities and constitutional experts all cry FOUL.....

I will always look at that theft as the beginning of all of current problems with these "NEW" Republicans.....

My old man was a DIE HARD, OLD GUARD REPUBLICAN, and he is screaming from his grave about these current "so called" imposter Republicans who are not Statesmen/Stateswomen interested in the next generation, but politicians only interested in the next election!!
(borrowed from Abraham Lincoln)

I also have to say, that un-questionably, Hillary Clinton was INFINITELY MORE QUALIFIED to be President Of the United States, than any president in the entire last century. I said qualified, I know of no other that had her depth of knowledge, state affairs, and current and past history. Obviously, there were several awesome Dem presidents. My point is directed at her Qualifications. AND, PUTIN LITERALLY FEARED HER, AND HER BECOMING PRESIDENT AND HAVING TO FACE HER.........................

Putin had been collecting Kompromat on the entire top end of the Republican Politicians for decades. Especially the membership of the Republican Senate and most of all Lindsay Graham and Trump. I won't sicken my mind with imagining what Putin has on Trump, and especially Lindsay Graham. Plus probably the majority of the Republican Senators. Everyone knows that Trump is a sexual deviate and rapist, and the Republicans don't care.....Everyone knows that Lindsay Graham is gay, and who cares. So what is the ONE thing that frightens both of them (and many other Republicans) to the bone. ???????????

[Oopsie Daisy]

39. Yes... that. But I'd also include Ford pardoning Nixon. That's when the toxic GOP started.

And that's what led to Reagan.

[onetexan]

8. THIS!!☝️

[mopinko]

9. ya know the funny thing about this?

it occurred to me the other day that if hillary wins, life goes on and little changes, and ppl say- yeah, they keep telling us it’s the most important election, but things r the same. and cuz no one cld have imagined how bad tfg would be, we look like chicken little.

young folks are only gonna come out for so many ‘most important election of your life’. i think enough of them realized they screwed up in 16, and made up for it in 20 and 22.
let’s hope they’ve learned the civics lesson of a lifetime.

[yardwork]

16. I don't blame young people. I blame white people.

I'm white. So I am pointing out that a large majority of white voters voted for Trump - in BOTH elections.

Let that sink in.

(And before the obligatory "I'm white and I've never voted for a Republican in my life!!" posts - we know. I've never voted for a Republican, you've never voted for a Republican, Mopinko never voted for a Republican... but the fact remains that a majority of our fellow white Americans vote Republican every time. So what are we going to do about that? They're our relatives, neighbors, co-workers, fellow parishioners, friends.)

[mopinko]

32. not blaming them.

they have good reason to be cynical. but it’s a thing about elections that the ppl who provided the margin get the credit/blame.
i worked a muni election once where i knew for a fact that my +1’s all voted the right way, cuz there was a rally 1st day of early voting and they all showed up, and we took 100% of the early votes in that precinct. it was a tight election- 12 votes. i delivered that many the 1st day, and 90% of my precinct. i never let him hear the end of it.

i just hope they dont give up now.

[yardwork]

33. I know you walk the walk! You always work hard to GOTV.

I could do more, and must do more.

[mopinko]

34. not so much lately.

my health sucks these days so it’s been a while.

[Joinfortmill]

22. Amen to that

[inthewind21]

156. Really?

I cannot comprehend anyone who heard what came out of his mouth could think "How bad can he be?"

[maxrandb]

11. How we got here

A Reminder and a Warning.

President Obama didn't fix all of America's problems within a week of taking office, and even had the gall to not deliver ponies as demanded.

We decided that the way to make America "more progressive" was to sit out the 2010 Mid-term election (A CENSUS YEAR), and allow unhinged racists with tri-corner hats and Medicare provided "My Scooters"...screaming like banshees for 14 months about getting "gubmint out of my Medicare", to take over 65% of all State Legislatures and Governorships, as well as a majority of the Federal Government House and Senate.

Then, we sat back as a racist fucking orange circus clown spent the next 14 months demanding to see the first African American President's Birth Certificate. We never showed up to protest at the studios of ...NOT ONE SINGLE one of the 1,500 Hate Radio stations, (MANY BASED ENTIRELY WITHIN THE CONFINE OF 80-20 BLUE TO RED CITIES), who spewed racist birther shit 24/7.

Then, it became perfectly normal for CBS, NBC, ABC, the NY Times, the WA Post, and of course Faux News to present the entire racist birther shit as nothing more than a "he said-she said" issue.

Then we gleefully watched "Game of Thrones" and wondered how people could allow such a fucked up...but totally entertaining...leadership structure take hold in Westoros.

Then we got busy with our kids and our lives as our newly empowered T-baggers drew state and federal congressional districts that looked like a sheep fucking a housecat...we expressed a little bit of concern when all of these "snake swallowing a shriveled penis" districts ensured our new overlords could win 48% of a states voters, while getting 86% of its representation...coincidental, of course.

Then we nominated a fantastic candidate, and one that was probably the most qualified ever to serve as President, but all anyone wanted to talk about was some "scandal" about some "email" bullshit...except for some of "us"...who preferred talking about how "our wonderful, started from nothing and worked her ass off to get where she was, truly historic candidate, was just EXACTLY THE SAME as an orange colored, racist freak-show, carnival barking, used-car-powered-by-snake-oil selling, serial unwanted pussy-grabbing moron".

Then, just to ensure we went completely through the Looking Glass and were using the broken shards to slit out wrists, we enabled the party of the "orange colored, racist freak-show, carnival barking, used car, snake oil selling, serial unwanted pussy-grabbing moron", to be the only check on his power.

There's something in there about some Russians doing some shit, but truly...THIS SHIT SHOW IS ALL OURS.

and that's "How we ended up in this Donnie Dipshit hellscape"

Going forward for at least the next 40 years, the next election is always going to be the most important and critical of our lifetimes.

[yardwork]

17. Righteous rant! +1000

[stopdiggin]

52. +1. I know! "Like HE said! .."

[RocRizzo55]

25. And all that hate radio would never have been around

Had Ronnie Rat Raygun not stole the election from Carter in 1980. It was his destruction of the Fairness Doctrine that led to all this hate radio and TV. Fox "News" wasn't even around before Raygun, neither was Crushed Limpballs.

[inthewind21]

158. I keep

hearing about Republicans who stole elections. Anyone got any evidence of a stolen election or is this just Rudy level excuses for self inflicted loss?

[RocRizzo55]

168. It was a strategy

called, "The October Surprise." Many were convinced that Ronnie Rat Raygun was better because of this. It's that plain and simple.
Look here:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/18/us/politics/jimmy-carter-october-surprise-iran-hostages.html
And here:https://jacobin.com/2020/01/ronald-reagan-october-surprise-carter-iran-hostage-crisis-conspiracy
And here:https://newrepublic.com/article/172324/its-settled-reagan-campaign-delayed-release-iranian-hostages
Are three enough?

[mountain grammy]

55. great rant.. so true!

THIS SHITSHOW IS ALL OURS..

But I gotta say, I'm still shocked that people I thought I knew for years became trumpers.

[Farmer-Rick]

15. It's not just 1 election that caused this

The Nazis and right wing authoritarians have been planning this for years. It probably goes back to Nixon, maybe even further with the demonization of real socialism.

When you allow legalized bribery as a form of political speech and allow capitalism to buy anything, you get this kind of out of control corruption.

Marx predicted this kind of corruption in his analysis of capitalism back in 1867. It just took a lot longer than he expected.

[RocRizzo55]

24. Exactly nt

[Joinfortmill]

20. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, VOTE.

[paleotn]

27. Well said. At the very least, just show the F up.

[RocRizzo55]

23. It goes back further than that

Try 1980 when Ronnie Rat Raygun stole the election from Carter. That started the whole mess we are in.

[newdayneeded]

31. plus....

No J6 incident.

Roe vs wade is still the law.

The downside is Joe Biden would never be president, because she'd be on her second term.

[DownriverDem]

37. Have to blame

the "but, but, but Hillary" folks. Where are they now? Will they play this game with Biden in 2024? Do they understand how serious this is this time?

[wryter2000]

38. Plus

Hundreds of thousands of Americans don't die of covid

[Wounded Bear]

41. It was more than one election. It was several cycles that got us where we are...nt

[Oopsie Daisy]

77. This would be Hillary's 2nd term. Things would have been much different. Much better.

It all started with THAT election.

[inthewind21]

160. I disagree

Slightly. It started decades ago. It all ENDED with THAT election. It's been coming for quite a while and slowly but surely the republican long game advanced. 2016 was THE last line of defense. The soldiers abandoned their posts and the castle walls were breached.

[Oopsie Daisy]

167. The analogy of the castle is a good one.

[Beastly Boy]

44. The sad part is that we all have been repeatedly warned of the consequences back in 2015.

Even if we didn't know any better, we all had the freedom to make the right choice if only we listened. Too many of us refused to listen. And too many of us made the stupid choice instead.

Given the consequences, "I told you so" is a reaction that seems tragically inadequate today.

[FoxNewsSucks]

48. Consequences, yes, but that ONE election wasn't the cause.

It was among the end goals republicon fascists have been working toward for decades.

They're still working toward their goals, meanwhile our elected politicians far too often are still playing nice with the nazis.

[krkaufman]

112. And infighting.

And too many choose infighting rather than focusing on the task at hand. (This thread as an example.)

[betsuni]

119. How is this thread an example of infighting. How is the OP incorrect?

[Martin68]

58. The consequences of unethical anti-democratic maneuvers by Mitch McConnell and his

GOP enablers in Congress

[SunSeeker]

60. And millions don't die of covid, because we stopped it in China.

Because we did not get rid of our CDC expert in China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-axed-cdc-expert-job-in-china-months-before-virus-outbreak-idUSKBN21910S

[Takket]

65. covid never would have been "stopped in China"

We certainly would have dealt with it a lot better HERE, with Federal action preventing rogue states from allowing the virus to spiral out of control, but no president would ever have stopped it from being a global pandemic.

[SunSeeker]

69. Obama managed to stop Ebola in Africa.

And even if covid had escaped China, we certainly would have avoided a million deaths here. Compare how Obama managed swine flu (H1N1) to how Trump managed covid once it came here. The first H1N1 case was reported in the US on April 15, 2009, shortly after Obama took office, and the government declared H1N1 a public health emergency on the April 26. The first test to detect the new virus was approved by the FDA two days later. Shipments of the new CDC test began May 1. It was all over by the following year. From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases, 274,304 hospitalizations, and 12,469 deaths in the United States due to H1N1. That could have been how we handled covid, but we had a evil idiot at the controls.

[dsc]

94. Covid was vastly more contagous than Ebola

we surely could have and likely would have done a better job under Hillary than under Trump but no way no how would it have been stopped in China.

[SunSeeker]

96. We would not have lost a million people.

An American president would not have lied to the world that covid was just the flu, and undermined the WHO and CDC.

[republianmushroom]

62. Yep

[Sancho]

66. And Bush v Gore

...and that is really a case of stealing the election.

[Oneironaut]

70. Trump was a nuclear bomb to American society.

He let loose demons that we won’t easily put back in the bottle, if ever.

[Sympthsical]

72. The problems always start at the top

However, those at the top rarely take responsibility. Instead, they and their allies in the media do this really neat trick.

They get the powerless to blame other powerless while defending until the end of time the poor decisions made by those those at the top who hold all the power.

It's really impressive how it's managed. If you look closely, you can see how they don't even realize they're doing it.

Ah, America.

[Hortensis]

73. We've been fighting in a post- 2016 national emergency ever since. 2016 continues, year 7.

That said, many of those who misunderstood what was at stake in that election have been voting Democratic to save our nation ever since.

The small, albeit noisy, minority who still don't believe they made a mistake in refusing to vote Democratic and would repeat it are what they are. They're not "us," and they won't change.

Never to confuse us with them.

[mudstump]

79. One election where the guy lost the popular vote...and

one Supreme Court Justice that wouldn't retire when a democrat was in the White House.

[lapucelle]

81. There was a 4-4 split in the Supreme Court in 2016 with a seat open.

Whoever was elected in 2016 was going to fill that open seat.

Put the blame where it belongs: with the third party shills who worked hard to convince voters that the Supreme Court wasn't at stake and/or that the Democratic nominee was unacceptable, with the entitled who saw their vote as a commodity to be earned rather than a civic duty to be exercised, and with the lazy stay-at-homes who were handed the excuse they needed to sit out the election.

[Oopsie Daisy]

83. McConnell would have blocked her replacement, too.

[krkaufman]

109. Maybe.

But Hillary winning supposes Comey didn’t tip the election, and projections were looking like Democrats winning the House and Senate.

Even then, I don’t expect Hillary would have sat idly back and allowed McConnell to do so.

[inthewind21]

161. No

The Comey tipped it, Russia did it, Fox did it, excuse is just that. A weak ass cop out excuse. Where both of those certainly are not helpful, none of them on their own can accomplish what people are claiming. Know what ALL of those need to be successful? Uninformed, gullible, civics illiterate voters. Comey, the Russians, nor FOX cast millions of ballots. THE VOTERS DID! It's mind blowing the any excuse will do blame everything but the voters. It speaks volumes.

[Initech]

84. Yup, the religious right got their hands on the grand prize.

The overturning of Roe V. Wade. And now our system is in absolute chaos. The religious right is bent on turning this country into a third world hell hole. And they can go get royally fucked for it.

[GenThePerservering]

92. This was NOT the consequences of one election

when are people going to drop this tired old argument and look to the future?

[emulatorloo]

97. It is a discussion board so people will discuss.

Additionally all DU’er are looking to the future. You see that in all the other threads here. DU’ers are good at walking and chewing gum at the same time.

P.S. 2016 was a very important election and all these years later we are still dealing with the consequences of Trump’s election. There’s no point in pretending it didn’t happen, or minimizing it, or rewriting history.

The consequences are still current so we are going to discuss it, as well as what we are going to do in the future to come out the other side.

BTW, DU has a great feature called “trash thread” if you don’t want to read any more.

[GenThePerservering]

98. Oh, totally feel free to rehash this subject

for the millionth time. Being on a chatboard, I also have a right to wonder why.

[emulatorloo]

100. 'TRASH THREAD' is your friend.

“Being on a chatboard, I also have a right to wonder why.”

Don’t remember any one saying you didn't have “a right to wonder why”, did they?

[Autumn]

157. Then they would have to accept that it is the candidate who loses elections, not the voter.

Every presidential election there is a there party voter. And there always seems to be more than one Democrat running in the primaries. When Joe ran in the primary if I remember correctly there were over twenty Democrats running in the 2020 presidential primary. Joe walked away with the nomination and beat Trumps ass.

It is the candidate who loses elections, not the voter.

[Bettie]

104. So, we're going to just keep going on

lamenting 2016 rather than moving forward?

If they had counted all the votes Gore would have been president!

If Regan hadn't made a back door deal with terrorists, Carter would have been re elected!

If Nixon had faced consequences, maybe Republican presidents would think before committing crimes...but, sure, I guess it's really productive to obsess over things we can't change rather than move forward with changes we can make.

[GenThePerservering]

116. This exactly

This subject is a worn-out retread.

[betsuni]

120. Because Trump could win in 2024, both-sides-same-who-cares.

[Oopsie Daisy]

124. Apparently people need to be reminded of the TRUTH. So many lies right here in this thread.

Whether the lies are intentional or simply delusional, those who promote an alternate reality do so at great peril. There's no harm in examining the facts, sweeping away the myths, and revisiting a very important post-mortem to keep fresh in everyone's minds what the consequences are of being disloyal to the party, or voting (or not-voting) in ways that are selfish, or that are meant to "punish" and "send-a-message". It's not "lamenting" and should not be so easily dismissed as such. It's part of "moving forward" and making sure that those idiotic and selfish mistakes are not made again. What's so wrong with that?

[JanMichael]

128. 2000. The SC decision to stop the Florida recount.

[Rob H.]

141. Has it been two weeks since the last OP exactly like this one already? Time flies. nt

[Sympthsical]

143. To be fair

Wedding cakes don't decay all by themselves.

[inthewind21]

165. I know right

And what amazes me. All the people who will flock to it to whine about it. That's right up there with grabbing the spoon and licking it when someone hands you one and says "OMG this tastes like shit, here try it!"

[betsuni]

166. Democrats don't want what happened in 2016 to happen again. Things like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100218079129

Democratic-leaning voters will be targeted with anti-Democratic propaganda as they were in 2016.

[budkin]

159. I want to move to THAT timeline

Holy hell.