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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat modern conveniences are the least we need?
Climate change is on my mind constantly. I do what I can to avoid adding to the problem, and most of the people I know do as well.
China is having a triple whammy of flooding, heat and drought. I saw a headline earlier this week that Janet Yellen appealed to China for more cooperation on climate change, among other things.
As I grew up, read Weekly Reader in school, and saw stories about Peace Corps and other organizations bringing clean water to villages in Africa, amazed that fresh water was such a treasure. Saw a story about how people in an African village gathered around the only tv to watch the Ali and Foreman match, and marveled that so many people had to share a tv. I've always assumed that clean water and accessible electricity would become basics available to all humans. But as people in remote places in the world still struggle, first world nations and the fabulously wealthy raise their bar almost daily. I'm old enough to remember that most families had 1 car, and many people didn't learn to drive. I remember bread and milk trucks delivering to homes, instead of someone driving to the store. I grew up in a suburb, so I didn't experience the quaint arrangement of everything being within walking distance, but we did walk to a bus stop to go downtown, and once there, walked from store to store. We also walked to a bus stop for the school bus. So many things then, such as a 2nd car, a family vacation, a private swimming pool were luxuries that even people in my middle class neighborhood could only dream of. Then of course, along came the concept of "keeping up with the Jones" and as time went on, multiple cars, multiple drivers, short trips for errands, private pools, annual vacations, and other items once thought luxuries became commonplace. Somewhere along the line, I realized that humans in the first world are not going to be able to sustain the growth of personal luxury without leaving most human literally in the dirt.
So I'm wondering today, what is the least we individuals can get by with to have a comfortable life? What would we be willing to give up? What are we willing to never have? If people in the first world give up luxuries, will it even help people in the third world? Will humans in all places ever have an equity that meets basic needs for everyone, without wrecking the planet? I am going to continue living frugally, taking or using the least I can get by with. When I see the news that it is the hottest year on Earth in 120,000 years, I feel like not being a part of the problem has stopped being enough.
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Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)is to live in multi-unit housing.
And, if people get over their prejudices against it, they will find that it doesn't require giving up much at all in the way of luxuries or comfort. It reduces the work you personally need to do to maintain your home and it opens you up to a community of friends and neighbors who have a stake in the efficient and comfortable running of your home.
But a recent thread here showed me that a lot of people believe a lot of really off-the-wall crazy nonsense about apartment living.
Another thread this morning made me go look up some statistics on what we have that we don't need. I posted my findings in a response. Here's the thread:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18075353
NutmegYankee
(16,454 posts)I grow huge gardens with flowers, fruiting vines, and vegetables. Apartment living is simply incompatible with my lifestyle. It would be a prison for me.
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)one, and I too grow flowers though I don't grow food.
And I understand that people value different things. But it is rude to compare someone else's home to a prison.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)Not a prison overall.
And I feel the same way - I had my fill of apartment living when I was first starting out, and have no desire to go back to it. We have a large, beautiful backyard that takes a lot of work to maintain, but I thoroughly enjoy doing so.
PatSeg
(52,027 posts)and now I live in an in-law apartment in my son's house. There's a big yard surrounded by lots of wildlife. I never miss living in an apartment where you have no choice as to who your neighbors are.
NutmegYankee
(16,454 posts)I was laying out exactly how I would feel if I was forced to live in an apartment.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Over my life, I've also known several folks who were burned out of their apartments due to someone else's candles, smoke habits, carelessness, etc.
No way, nohow would I live in a condo/apartment type setting. My parents moved to a very nice condo complex in their later years.
They both hated it, and I hated even visiting. Busybodies, condo association types, rules on what can be on balconies...oh god no way. 
Rorey
(8,514 posts)I suppose I would adjust, but I'm hoping I never have to do it.
I guess I just got too spoiled in my current living situation. I got to keep my house after the divorce 4 1/2 years ago. My intention was to keep it for two years and then sell and move to a more sensible place. But everything seems to be working out as it should. First one son and his family moved in with me for nine months while they were building a house. Then the pandemic happened, and I was so thankful that I had the ability to at least go out and enjoy my backyard, even if I initially couldn't go too many other places. Then another son and his little family moved in for 9 months while transitioning to another state. It was perfect. Now my daughter and adult grandson are moving in. It's shaping up to be another great living situation that works out for all three of us. I'm so glad that I didn't follow my original plan to sell after two years.
My garden is small this year, with just tomatoes and marijuana. Next year I plan to make it much, much bigger. I'm happier than I've ever been in my life, enjoying my own little world. I sure hope I don't have to change it.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I call my home The Burrow...because of all my foliage and the various touches people comment to me on how much they like it as they walk by. Surrounded by large oaks, which I can't take credit for, but the rest I've done myself.
I can sit on my porch and watch the road, but no one can see me because the trees block the road, and the porch is an orchid paradise.
It's very peaceful, very private, very quiet.
Rorey
(8,514 posts)My house isn't perfect, and my yard isn't perfect either. I'd love to be able to afford to do a few things, but at the same time, I love it as it is. Great location and great neighbors. Above all else, I feel safer here than I've ever felt in my life.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Every day is a new project lol.
But yeah, I love my little hood. Mixed, and we all are friendly and respectful of one another. I have NEVER had a political discussion with anyone except for my up the street neighbor years ago.
We talk as we walk around, see each other in the yards, talk over the fences, comment on dogs and little ones...it's nice. I'm not the most social person, but as people pass my yard, I've learned names of wee'uns, dogs...neighborhoods are nice.
NickB79
(20,229 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 9, 2023, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)
About halfway done converting 1.5 acres into native prairie and savannah restoration, along with 3 small (500 gallon) ponds for amphibians, insects and birds.
Grew up on a 120 acre farm with 30 acres of old growth oak and sugar maple forest. My 1.5 acre property feels confining.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)They enjoy the tomatoes also.
I've planted many, many trees and shrubs on my wee acre, and my house has nestled into it as they've grown. Looking out any of my windows all you see is green.
Rorey
(8,514 posts)I do have a question though. Do the ponds breed mosquitoes? Where I live isn't really conducive to putting in ponds, but I do make sure that there's water available every day for wildlife. I try my best to not use any kind of toxins in my yard. I think I drive my SO mad because I don't strive to have a "perfect" yard like he has at his own house. It's presentable, and if you don't look too close, it looks pretty good. That's good enough for me.
NickB79
(20,229 posts)Started as cheap 20-cent fish, now my oldest are 6" long and 5 yr old. Since I'm in Minnesota and the ponds freeze solid, I drain my ponds and put them in a 55-gal drum in my basement around Halloween every year, back out by the end of April. I also overwinter some tropical water plants this way. Just a fluorescent light and a bubbler keeps them happy.
In the last 2 years they even started breeding baby goldfish!
I obviously know nothing. 
Vinca
(53,288 posts)thing. If the people upstairs decide they like heavy metal at full blast and the people next door have barking dogs, you're in hell.
NutmegYankee
(16,454 posts)I felt like I was the only one who followed the rules on sound while living in an apt. Today I can sleep in silence or blast my heavy metal to my hearts content and no one else can hear it.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Complexes have community gardens. Mine does, and by community I don't mean one that's belongs to everyone. You have your own rather large space.
NutmegYankee
(16,454 posts)And I've lived in several places including some large cities.
hunter
(40,347 posts)It's entirely possible to achieve high density urban neighborhoods where you can "grow huge gardens with flowers, fruiting vines, and vegetables."
I live in a neighborhood of single family homes and apartments. The population density is fairly high because many of the homes are occupied by extended families. Typically this will be a couple, both of them working, grandparents who look after the grandchildren, and a few cousins (biological or otherwise) rounding out the mix. Many of these grandparents are immigrants to the U.S.A.. They came here to work and raised financially successful children while living in much rougher neighborhoods than ours.
If you chose to live here you could have a house with a large garden, the garden exceeding the square footage of the house. If you didn't want a larger house or garden, but you didn't want to share common walls with neighbors, you could live in an Accessory Dwelling Unit (ADU or granny flat). If you are comfortable living in a nice apartment with a balcony large enough for a few potted plants you could do that too.
The biggest problem in our neighborhood is all the cars. Almost every working person has a car. Street parking can be a nightmare at times. We are also exactly a mile away from the nearest restaurants, coffee shops, and grocery store. Public transportation isn't all that convenient. If we could rebuild our city so that car ownership was mostly unnecessary we'd have a lot more room for gardens, bicycle paths, neighborhood coffee shops, markets, and public transportation improvements.
Our oldest child owns a house with a garden in a big city. The neighborhood was built before car culture was established. There's good public transportation and everything you might need in your daily life is within easy walking distance. The problem I see with the neighborhood is the extreme gentrification. The larger homes in the neighborhood sell for one to two million dollars apiece which severely limits the diversity of the people living there. This also limits population density because many of the wealthier people who live there are intolerant of living arrangements beyond "two parents plus one or two children" even if they, as solidly Democratic Pride Flag waving liberals, leave those concerns unvoiced.
c-rational
(3,128 posts)
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)The house is big enough, and sharing this structure and lot would be a way of using the existing space positively. If I needed to, I would move to an apartment. But as my allergies get worse, it is harder to be outside. My absence in the yard is a benefit for the critters who have moved in 
DBoon
(24,666 posts)and don't need the landlord's permission to install an EV charger
Rorey
(8,514 posts)You have to have the permission of someone else to do things in many cases.
Trailrider1951
(3,561 posts)The ones who play loud music or TV after 10 pm. The ones who walk their dogs and don't pick up the poop so I step in it. The ones who park their garbage outside their door and don't bother to take it to the garbage bin for WEEKS. The ones who rudely let their guests take my parking spot, especially after I have cleared it of snow. The males who think my appearance invites their verbal abuse. The kid who threw a rock through my window. No thank you!
GoCubsGo
(34,651 posts)I know all about the ones who crank their home theater up the entire goddamn weekend. In the couple of years when I lived in an apartment, I had one of those next door to me for a year. It shook the entire place. Had they not moved out, and that noise continued, I probably would have been driven to violence. It was maddening. And, the garbage thing--yeah. T the college boys who later moved in on the other side, threw theirs into the storage closet out back, rather than take it to the dumpster. Which they had to pass in order to exit the complex. The management had to fumigate it after they left. SMGDH.
But, at least none of these assholes started their kitchen on fire, like someone a few buildings down did one day. Their fuck-up ruined two other households, along with their own. Not as bad as where my sister used to live, though. The whole building across from them went up in flames, and dozens of families lost everything. That's the worst thing about living in multi-family buildings. You have to hope your neighbors don't do something stupid that will start the place on fire, or blow it up.
hunter
(40,347 posts)Their "inconsiderate neighbors" are worse than any you'll commonly find in the city.
Semi-automatic weapons fire at two in the morning, off-road vehicles cutting across their properties, horrible smells and flies from poorly kept livestock, and yes, even music blasted out late at night at rock concert levels, or drug addicts stealing stuff to pay for their next fix, just like any city.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)I've lived in apartments where the smoke of others would waft out of their window (or balcony) and into my open window. Or, even worse: it would seep through the floor and walls from neighboring units. (And this was long before weed was legal in many places. Now that it's legal, I imagine that things will be much worse.)
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Years later, I visited my parents in their condo, which did not allow smoking in the building, but still, you'd smell it. Someone always has to have that cigarette.
Two fires there during the time my parents were there (both times I was house-sitting and thank god my parents were at the beach). Both fires were on a higher floor, thankfully, and I heard the alarm.
My mother, being hard of hearing, never even heard the test alarms. She would never have known. I was so glad neither was there.
A woman died of smoke inhalation in one of those fires. Alone, elderly, probably died in her sleep as she breathed the smoke...and they found her as they swept the building afterwards.
This was a very high-priced condo complex, with supposedly all kinds of safeguards, but still it happened. The building was built in the 60s, mostly concrete and is probably what stopped the fire the second time according to the fire department.
No way will I ever live in communal type living.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)is prohibited in all of them. I think that's pretty common nowadays.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)Well, in my experience, I don't "think they aren't," I know for a fact that they aren't. It's a rule on paper that nobody enforced. Weak and meaningless in the apartment flats and townhouse apartments and townhouse condos that I've lived before. Even direct complaints to management or the HOA was met with the response of "there's really nothing we can do". Although apartment or cluster living may be more economical and sustainable, it's miserable living when neighbors engage in such behavior. Legal or not, it's intrusive and obnoxious. Next in line would be loud music, parties, screaming/stomping children and domestic abuse or shouting-spouses. I'd rather live in a prefab garden toolshed in the middle of the woods before I'd put up with that again. Y'all can have it!
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)I've experienced none of that in decades of living in apartments.
Perhaps the difference is that I live in a co-op. We are all owners and, unlike with condos, we can vet the people who buy in.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)exclude people who clearly can't pay their way or who have sex crimes or violent crimes on their records. As anyone would want to with someone who will be sharing their home.
It's a pretty cursory weeding process, but it seems to work. I love my neighbors.
yardwork
(68,933 posts)It turned into a nightmare and I was grateful to sell at a loss and get out.
It was a very pretty, spacious two-story unit in a charming, older complex. Great location. Space in front and behind for me to garden. Big trees. Affordable. It seemed like heaven at first.
My co-owners - and when you own a condo unit you are co-owners of the whole thing, along with all the other owners - were irresponsible, didn't pay their dues, didn't want to pay for essential maintenance and repairs, allowed their kids to have wild parties that damaged our communal property, wouldn't volunteer to serve as officers and treated those of us who did serve as hired help, etc. One of the other owners had serious mental health issues and early dementia. She was verbally abusive, put nasty letters in our boxes, and chased off all our maintenance contractors. The guy who served as treasurer for a year didn't pay any bills. Another couple seized control for a few years, cancelled our termite bond, and tried to cancel our insurance. I stopped that - right before a tree fell on one of the units. In desperation, I agreed to be president and tried to keep things from falling apart. Absentee owners let their units decay or rented to irresponsible kids. Things were so poorly maintained, a tree caught fire because the cheap president hired an unlicensed electrician to jerry rig the outside lighting. I could go on and on. I developed panic attacks when I drove home.
Never again. I live in a house in a suburban tract with a HOA now and love it. I like our neighbors. Im easy going with neighbors, friends, and co-workers. I like to live and let live. That condo experience was a nightmare.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)We considered a condo, but these days, the HOA fees are worse than a mortgage. Plus, all of them have all of the minuses of apartments, namely, the loud, noisy and rude neighbors who make your life a living hell from all sides--up, down and all around.
Maybe if Americans would build "multi-unit" housing with peace and quiet the #1 structure goal, and if--IF--the percentage of rude and downright vicious Americans wasn't so bloody high, I'd consider it. But not as long as the buildings are bloody firetraps, and especially not as long as far too many people in this sh*thole country are as outrageously selfish and nasty as they are.
Nope
Nope
Nope
As long as I'm living in the US of A, I'll be living in a detached house, thanks very much.
Happy Hoosier
(9,388 posts)Did that earlier in my life. Absolutely hated it. Living in a cubby hole sucks.
CozyMystery
(700 posts)My current dog weighs 60 lbs and barks a lot when he hears things that I often cannot hear. There is no doubt that he would disturb our neighbors in an apartment building.
He is a terrier and has no intention of not barking on command, even though he knows the command.
Since I hope to never be without a dog, and much prefer ones that weigh between 50 and 100 lbs., apartment living is out of the question.
I stayed with my daughter for a few months during Covid. I felt trapped in an apartment. I also much prefer rural living, and that is what I'm used to for over a decade now..
I don't have to live alone, though, and do not at present. It might be fun to live with like-minded people in a large house in the country.
Sgent
(5,858 posts)landlord in a 2-4 unit situation where I live in an owner's unit but would prefer to avoid condo living if I can.
mobeau69
(12,211 posts)
ChazII
(6,448 posts)have left-handed can openers readily available in all stores.
mobeau69
(12,211 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Never owned one.
GoCubsGo
(34,651 posts)and others with arthritic hands. Most people can get along with a manual opener, though. In fact, I find the manual ones to be a lot easier and quicker to use. It's a fine line between convenience and necessity with items like this. They can be a lifesaver for the disabled, or in the case of some power tools, they can prevent repetitive motion injuries.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)One of the greatest things ever.
I can't even find a picture on the internet to show how mangled her hands were from arthritis, to give an idea of how wonderful and necessary an invention that was for her.
MerryBlooms
(12,137 posts)We're both widowed and share a home together. She struggles mightily with 3 types of arthritis, especially in her hands, they are a crippled mess. She has a battery powered can opener, and an electric. I've now developed rheumatoid arthritis and osteo in my hands. I'm using the electric more and more. For us, it's not a luxury item.
NowISeetheLight
(4,002 posts)I haven't had an electric one since I was a kid. I've always used the hand held ones. Electric ones take up valuable counter space anyway.
mobeau69
(12,211 posts)Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)putting the air conditioning on a much lower setting and placing more fans around The air conditioner takes up a lot more energy than the fans, and the combination seems to be keeping things cool. And my Con Ed weekly usage notice is only registering a 2% increase during the hot weather we've had when it's usually a lot higher than that. I'll want to see a few weeks data before I decide it works, but it's promising.
Midnight Writer
(25,128 posts)I only turn on my air conditioner if the temp goes over 80 for a whole day.
My local power company says this will save energy and money. My brother-in-law says running the dehumidifier uses just as much energy as running the air conditioner. We'll see.
I hate hot weather, but the humidity is the worst of it. I find that I am not uncomfortable in 80 degree heat if the humidity is down and a fan keeps the air moving in whatever room I am in.
Mariana
(15,613 posts)It should be easy enough for you to look up the numbers. Generally, dehumidifiers cost less to run.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,841 posts)(UL = Underwriters Laboratories.) that will tell you how much power it draws or uses. If it is not on the appliance itself (I’m in a hotel and just looked for one on the microwave, and it didn’t have one!) that information would be in the owners/operation manual that came with the item.
If the AC uses 1500 watts and the dehumidifier uses 1000, then it would obviously use less.
hunter
(40,347 posts)That's all we could afford. It didn't cool the house down much but it greatly reduced the oppressive humidity.
A dehumidifier works the same as a small air conditioner but it dumps the heat it produces back into the house. This is good in cooler weather, not so good in hot weather.
Hotler
(13,725 posts)JanMichael
(25,725 posts)Also and I know people will get pissy about it if all of us turn vegan we'll be using a lot less water and creating a lot less carbon releases. Sure growing stuff over the next 30 years might shift geographies away from the equator.
Also we need the problem we start moving away from almonds and pistachios in California.
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)Robot vacuums @$1700....
Robot lawn mowers @$3000
Designer appliances (espresso makers, pizza ovens, etc)
Electric hand tools (screw drivers, files, etc)
Pickup trucks driven by suburban white collar parents
edhopper
(37,035 posts)that cost $200 and when I use it I use my bigger vacuum less. Recharging it takes less energy than running the big vacuum.
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)As opposed to a push sweeper?
A hand operated push sweeper will pick up animal hair and other debris, though it isn't as efficient as a vacuum at picking up finer Matter like dust and other unspeakable matter.
I'm not saying a vacuum is never needed, it just doesn't need to run every day.
I look at it like integrated dirt management. 
I'm also not saying some robots aren't useful; it's just that some people take them way too far.
MissB
(16,340 posts)It runs Monday-Friday, daily in our first floor. We have two good sized dogs and live on a forested lot. The dogs run in and out all day long.
The vacuum also runs under my couches and other places that I wouldn’t routinely sweep. Mondays it picks up the most, but there is still a surprising amount of dirt in its bin the other days.
My electric bill stays pretty steady. Our electricity is generated by hydroelectric dams on a large river. I don’t sweat the amount of energy that my vacuum uses.
Dh used a hand grinder for coffee (he’s had the same one since college, and he’s about to retire) and an aeropress for his daily coffee.
I try to keep all my yard and food waste on site. I grow as much food as I can, and I can afford energy efficient improvements and appliances. In short, I try to do as much as I can for climate change without giving up much in the way of conveniences. I can also afford this stuff, and it’s going to be harder to ask folks who have less to do more. Some of these conveniences make our lives easier do we can spend time doing other things.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)Do you have zero ability to put yourself in anyone else's shoes to understand why your push-sweeper is pathetically inadequate for the needs of others?
Asthma/allergy sufferers. A push-sweeper will never in a billion years pull up enough of the pollen, dust and dander that gets in rugs and carpets to keep the air clean enough for us. If I could afford one of those robot sweepers, I'd get it, so that something else can do that daily (for us) task of sweeping the floors. And that's daily on top of the air purifiers we have. Wait--let me guess, you think air purifiers are stupid, too.
People with more than one pet. Are you going to slag off on people for having pets now, too?
People who can't stand for long periods of time. People with mobility issues. People with chronic pain.
Was it really so difficult to come up with even those few examples?
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)We have two - one upstairs that runs in our bedroom twice per week and the rest of the upstairs once per week and one downstairs that runs daily. We have dogs, and it keeps the pet hair manageable.
It's nice to come home to a vacuumed floor.
Wingus Dingus
(9,173 posts)because the roller brush doesn't work right and I got tired of "prepping" the house before each vacuum run. By the time I get done moving electrical cords, moving throw rugs, blocking off stairs, pulling out dining chairs, etc. I could have been part way done with the regular vacuum.
Shermann
(9,004 posts)...from my cold dead hands!
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)There are some that look like they were built to military grade tolerances and hand crafted by some artist.....
I have an old aluminum one that sits on my stove. It works. It will even froth milk. But it won't win any awards.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)What is it with you snobby, snotty Luddites who think that "old fashioned" always = better? What utter rot that is.
Sometimes people get things because the "old-fashioned" versions require more time and effort than they can give over for such a thing. Should they do without something they enjoy because you don't like it that they want a machine to do some of the onerous tasks for them? People have busy lives. Time is money. Not that I drink espresso, but if I did, why would I want to deal with a stove to make it, when a machine can do the tough tasks for me and get me on my way to something else faster? I'm also less likely to burn myself or overheat my house in the summer if I use an espresso machine rather than dealing with the stupid stove.
Are you also going to trash me for having a "designer" bullet blender? You know why I got it? Because it came with lots of stuff that makes blending more sensible, I could use it as both a bullet blender and a regular blender, and, well, I use the thing. I like that it automates some blender tasks for me. Why stand in front of a blender to pulse, pulse, pulse one thing, when my bullet blender will do it for me while I'm doing something else that needs my attention? Do you think I want to slave away in a kitchen all day, when I could get a meal done in less time and spend the time doing something more edifying?
Some of us like modern conveniences because they, well, make our lives better.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)They are often much larger, and much more complex. They use non standard parts you can only get from the manufacturer in most cases, and when they discontinue the model, you will cart it to the curb.
I'm not a ludite, and I'm not a snob by any means. I have the means to buy nice shiny things, I just prefer practical items.
Your mileage varies. Speaking of which, that's why my car is 16 years old and has almost 200k miles. I have a fishing boat that is 20 years old. So yeah, I splurge, but not new and shiny.
Don't take offense. These are my pet peeves. They aren't what I consider mortal failings.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)an inordinate number of scolds at DU, intent on telling grown people what is best for them rather than accepting that each individual is capable of making those decisions on their own.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)But for elderly people or those with hand problems who don't want to depend on others all the time to do simple things, the electric tools are lifesavers. It's much simpler (and more likely to get done) if someone can use an electrified tool to screw in a cabinet door that's gotten loose, rather than waiting on someone from outside your home to do it. Who may or may not show up anytime soon.
Small tools are also good for those who need to put together a DIY bookshelf or printer stand well enough to hold up for a long time. Electric screwdrivers/drills will do a better job assembling them in a stable way than doing it by hand. That's just reality. I'm glad you're rich enough to afford or inherit furniture that doesn't need it, but many of us out here aren't that privileged. We need things like the electric screwdrivers to add longevity to the cheap versions of things that are all we can afford.
I also don't have a problem with specialty appliances--if their owners use them on a regular basis. What, exactly, is wrong with people having espresso makers at home, rather than using gas to drive to Starbucks for it? If you don't like espresso, fine, but you sound like a reverse snob singling that out for scorn. Plenty of people enjoy espresso enough to drink it every day (I *dare* you to tell an Italian it's stupid to want espresso at home), and only hateful people put others down for liking something so minor.
Some of the "designer" appliances (FFS, how stupid to call them that) the husband and I do have are:
Your hated pizza oven
A $$$$$$ gourmet coffee maker
Air fryers - Large *and* small
Instapot
Crockpot
Electric skillets - Large *and* small
Bullet blender that doubles as a regular blender
Tabletop indoor grill/griddle
Tabletop roaster oven
Rotisserie oven
Electric can opener
Electric tea kettle
Electric knife
And probably some others that I can't think of at the moment.
I find all of those supposedly "designer" appliances necessary for reasons that are quite frankly no one's business but mine, and anyone who doesn't like that can bugger all the way off.
I bet you have a bunch of stuff that I'd consider stupid and useless, but I'm not going to slag off on you for that. Your money, your house, your life. So why slag on other people for what they have?
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)By designer, I really meant show pieces. Items that are meant more as a statement than as something to be used every day.
I went to a party thrown by the ceo of a company I worked at. In the kitchen was this humongous restaurant sized espresso capacino maker. I asked him how it works. He said he had no idea, he has never used it.
I also have gadget appliances I use on a regular basis. They are small and can be stored easily if not used frequently.
And yes, some people do benefit from electric tools. But a lot of people just do the tool guy thing. They sit on a shelf and get used once a year. Waste of lithium.
meadowlander
(5,092 posts)I have terrible allergies and the only way I can stay on top of dust mites is to be out of the room while they are being hoovered up. Robot vacuums are a life saver for me.
I figure since I don't have kids or pets, didn't own a car until I was 43, have less than 40,000km on my 10 year old used car, work at home full time and never buy anything I'm not happy to dust for the next 40 years, I'm not really the issue.
The calculus will be different for different people but suggest the focus should be on the big ticket items, not novelty goods that are mostly electric powered anyway.
Some people will be willing to go vegetarian, some people can give up air travel, some people can live in smaller houses, some people can ditch the second car, some people can grow most of their own food and limit consumption to only necessities.
Having said that, though, I would have a rant about electronics that are built to be obsolete in two or three years and pointlessly "smart" things like refrigerators, Alexa/Siri-type aids that only exist to stop having to cross a room and do something yourself. If it's absolutely essential to someone's lifestyle (e.g. they are disabled), have at it and make up the difference somewhere else. But I think those are obvious examples of where the drivers of capitalism are clearly out of step with actual human needs and the good of the planet.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)
ancianita
(42,785 posts)A punch list is a personal, group, or institutional checklist. Because of differences among people, cultures, incomes, and knowledge, there is no one common or correct checklist.
The top "ten" solutions to reverse climate change are an abstraction. The true top solutions are what you can, want, and will do. The value of a punch list is that when you commit to something, things can happen.
You can accomplish the checklist over a predetermined time -- a month, year, five years, etc.
Within that you can make different lists for this week, this year, for example.
https://regeneration.org/punchlist
Check out this site's home page, too, and read this. Both will give you inspiration.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)thank you for the link.
JI7
(93,138 posts)
flvegan
(65,722 posts)But you'll be the only one saying this here.
Coventina
(29,083 posts)I know people will come back with I NEED to eat meat because.......(add non-medically diagnosed excuse here).
WhiteTara
(31,159 posts)from old to new technology. We are down to one car and it's an electric hybrid. To town and back can all be done on the battery range.
I can't remember when we had our last vacation, but I don't see one in our near future either. The idea of flying just sounds so terrible that I can't bring myself to even think about it. Cruising is a death wish as they are floating petri dishes.
We are having the house weatherized and replacing our energy suck HVAC with a heat pump/exchange and that is my fav of all our things...warm or cool without a million dollar price tag that belches toxins in the air.
Depending on the cost, I want to replace some doors too. This house was built in the late 80s when fuel was plentiful and cheap and as owner/builders, they cut costs everywhere, so the word square is hardly known here.
I'm sure there are many things that we can do, but little by little we'll make our little spot more eco friendly.
Response to Marthe48 (Original post)
ancianita This message was self-deleted by its author.
hlthe2b
(112,723 posts)but even without sufficient mass transit, I note (and somewhat envy) younger people who are doing so, relying on rideshares, rentals when needed, and mass transit where available. I would be so much better off financially sans the costly years of auto ownership.
So, it is possible, even if less practical in many areas of this vast country.
Lars39
(26,485 posts)We’re basically taking it down to studs so we can rewire, and insulate the exterior walls. The insulation in the attic is being replaced also. We’re spending quite a lot on new insulation so our heating and cooling needs will be less. I’d love to have solar panels, but our budget isn’t stretching that far.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)..energy efficiency tax credits might apply to the work you're doing...
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/energy-efficient-home-improvement-credit
Lars39
(26,485 posts)I know we can get rebates through TVA e-Score program. 
DBoon
(24,666 posts)induction heating is great
ecstatic
(35,010 posts)Once my current one gives out.
Bettie
(19,231 posts)my gas one (integrated griddle, two ovens) would cost far more than I could afford.
Entry level, basic 4 burner range with standard oven, 1,000 bucks. For one that would be like my stove? 4,000 up to...well, a WHOLE lot more!
DBoon
(24,666 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)Just let the poster use what works best for them at a price point they can afford and stop implying that you (in the general sense, not you personally) know more about what’s best for them than they do?
Bettie
(19,231 posts)but I make full meals, my adult kids are over...I do a LOT of cooking, it is the thing I am very good at.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)YOU know what works best for your individual circumstances; don't let anyone try to shame you into thinking they know more than YOU about what works best for you and your family.
DBoon
(24,666 posts)Stopping it will require change
Our civilization's tombstone will read "It cost too much to change"
is a gas stove worth flooded farms, burning forests and submerged cities?
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)going to give the poster $4,000 for a new range?
Or perhaps their family should just stay home and cook their own meals on a hot plate.
Bettie
(19,231 posts)to reduce that footprint, but it takes time and money to replace things.
Honestly, getting rid of our SUV in favor of a Prius probably makes more of an impact than a stove would!
Thanks for the backup. I really do appreciate it.
Bettie
(19,231 posts)For example: we recently replaced my SUV with a plug-in Prius, since I no longer have to drive groups of children to various places.
Do you know for 100% certain that all of your electricity comes from renewable sources?
We all do what we can as we can, but not everyone has enough cash on hand to buy all new appliances because someone on the internet says they should. If you do, well, you are a lucky person.
So, if you want to think I'm the sole source of climate change, go for it! Who knows, maybe my hot flashes are the real problem.
Hugin
(37,360 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 9, 2023, 11:23 AM - Edit history (2)
Let the flames begin.
On edit: My original header was based on a misreading of the thread topic.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)I'm especially aware of unnecessary travel, and daily overall, combine trips, limit driving, drive a Prius. I've been retired since 2009 and worked from home before that.
Flying remains a treat for me, and I don't indulge often.
Hugin
(37,360 posts)Allows you to see those excursions as a treat or special allowances.
The majority of people don’t get that.
Shermann
(9,004 posts)Why are these even still a thing? Discussing alternatives and not implementing them decade after decade is totally unacceptable.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)I hope for a time that we use petroluem products for things like plastics, and not for energy at all.
ProfessorGAC
(75,792 posts)At least it's recyclable. There are chemistry issues with recycling plastic yet to be resolved. That's why under 10% of plastics put into the recycling chain is actually used.
I liked it when they asked "Paper or plastic?"
That stopped a long time ago.
Admittedly, paper is a high energy consumption process (lots of water to evaporate) and I haven't seen a side by side energy comparison but my instinct tells me using more paper & less plastic is a start.
Shermann
(9,004 posts)Paper recycling is largely a success by comparison.
Glass recycling is a thing of the past in much of the country.
Recycling is hanging by a thread in my opinion.
ProfessorGAC
(75,792 posts)There are 2 plants within 25 miles of here that produce 40 & 65% (respectively) of their output from recycled glass.
Glass recycling is not dead in this country.
Paper is more than largely successful. TP is 90-95% recycled paper, some brands 100%. Paper towels are well over 50% recycled paper.
From cardboard, to sheet, to newsprint, to TP, we're recycling four generations. Now, I wouldn't want to live near a paper plant, especially a Kraft works. Loud, smelly, humid. And, they're huge.
But, paper recycling has been a resounding success. I'm not at all cynical about the efforts to reuse Paper.
Plastics, however, ought to be research funded as basic research by the world's governments. They should be treating it like a crisis. I don't believe they see it as such.
pwb
(12,450 posts)materials has worked for a long time. Others should use the same whenever possible. IMO.
ProfessorGAC
(75,792 posts)Everything was in paper bags for at least my first 30 years. We haven't forgotten how to make paper bags.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)Of using the reusable bags--cloth or what have you.
Using those is the one thing I miss about shopping in person. They're sturdier and easier to carry than paper -or- plastic bags.
ProfessorGAC
(75,792 posts)It's lightly insulated. I use if I shop out of town. I tend to forget it when shopping in town. Shame on me.
Retrograde
(11,373 posts)California (at least my part of it) banned one-use plastic bags years ago - there was much complaining and forecasts of doom, but it works. Local grocery stores charge for paper bags, so most people have learned to carry some with them - I keep 5 or 6 cloth ones in the car, and I have a small stuff sack that fits into a pocket or purse. During the shutdown I accumulated a number of re-usable plastic containers, which I use for freezing and other storage. I've taken to keeping a couple in the car, since when Mr. Retrograde and I go out for lunch we find we usually have left-overs - it saves on a few extra containers.
Progressive dog
(7,570 posts)and will continue to strive for more than basic needs. That is the way we are built. Eventually we will have turned all the recoverable fossil fuels into CO2 and if we have survived till then, we will no longer be burning them.
Most of the energy that we now use is used to supply basic needs. Food, housing, water, waste disposal, heat, lights are necessary to basic living. Every year, we are burning more fossil fuels, not less.
If we return the world to the average conditions before the industrial revolution, there will be a lot fewer people, with much shorter lives and meaner lives. We are unlikely to become extinct, we will remain the world's apex predator.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)there would have been far fewer humans in existence.
Progressive dog
(7,570 posts)Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)can be done without, has turned into a list of things people will not give up.
Progressive dog
(7,570 posts)have little to give up.
For this reason, the World Bank also reports global poverty numbers at two higher poverty lines to help monitor poverty as countries grow and living standards improve. These two thresholds — typical of poverty lines among lower-middle-income countries (LMICs) and upper-middle-income countries (UMICs) — are currently at US$3.65 and US$6.85, respectively.
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)you can see from this thread, most will steadfastly refuse to.
I'm disappointed in a lot of the replies on this thread. I know quite a few of my friends and family who choose not to own most of those things they say the just can't live without. Most of us are in our 70's or older and we've managed to live without those items. I get the impression that a lot of the people replying are much younger than me because we came of age in a time when we just didn't need so much stuff, so we know we can live without it.
Doesn't seem to be too much will to change their ways, or even try.
Shermann
(9,004 posts)That was supposed to have started in 2010, but then all this fracking crap started. The pumping and burning of the Earth's blood won't stop until it is gone.
Progressive dog
(7,570 posts)
StevieM
(10,577 posts)By the time that global warming reaches 3 degrees Celsius the carbon cycle will be in reverse. Carbon will be released from soil rather than absorbed by it. The Amazon will burn down. The permafrost will melt. This will release more carbon and methane, which in turn will cause more warming.
Eventually we will reach 6 degrees Celsius of warming. At that point the methane hydrate and hydrogen sulphide will be released in large amounts. And that will mean game over for humanity. That is what will make the difference between civilization breaking down and an outright extinction event.
Progressive dog
(7,570 posts)I personally doubt it. There are negative feedbacks involved, particularly cloud cover. Hydrogen sulfide also contributes to cooling of atmosphere, not warming.
StevieM
(10,577 posts)It explains what will happen as we approach, and reach, six degrees of warming. It is easy to read, and yet very thorough.
The issue with the hydrogen sulphide is not how if further warms/cools the atmosphere. The issue is how deadly it can be to humans.
http://globalwarming.berrens.nl/globalwarming.htm?fbclid=IwAR3C8EnBhgWMRbYedS2iy7157EKE-4-4sOWQRiRnMMgkZ7GPIWGsg2j85F8
Progressive dog
(7,570 posts)He is explaining what might happen if we approach 6 degrees warming.The question is not what will happen but what will we do about it. I can see no realistic change that will prevent global warming from happening.
We haven't even been able to put a small tax on carbon emissions and neither has most of the world.
Kaleva
(40,146 posts)With China producing more CO2 then the other industrial nations, including the US, combined, anything you do will not make any difference.
You can, however, concentrate on adapting to the brave , new world that is fast approaching. Like getting used to doing without, for periods of time, all the conveniences you have now.
Torchlight
(6,279 posts)we're given the opportunities to see our own wastefulness. At which point, the (very loud) chorus of "I'm not giving up my incandescent lighbulbs/sizzling steak/gas oven/ 8.2 L V8 engine! That's just too much to ask (of me, but ask everyone else) " begins with the heavy, dulcet bass of sealions in front of a microphone.
Reduce, renew, reuse, recycle. Only the last one stroked the puppets of profit, so it's the only one we really hear of anymore, but it began with a four point plan that we can all embrace (we're all in this together), or keep making excuses not to (I've got mine, all of you are on your own).
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)which means electricity. If I can reduce, renew, reuse and recycle, I sure do. That's the story of my life. I'm very proud of our kids, who recycle maximum amounts and are famous among their friends for their efforts.
pnwest
(3,420 posts)Keurig cups, yogurt cups, cutting up a whole cake to sell multiple single servings ALL in plastic containers, or cutting up a whole celery bunch to sell a handful of sticks in a grab-n-go plastic container. Just looking around as I’m walking thru the grocery store makes my head spin from all that plastic waste.
But then let’s stop providing bags for the customer to take home their groceries because the BAGS are the problem. I reuse my plastic grocery bags more than any of the single use containers (of course the bags ARE a problem, but def not the only issue…)
hunter
(40,347 posts)If they're not spending their money on one environmentally destructive thing they are spending or investing it in another.
The smallest environmental footprint I ever had was as a mentally ill dumpster diving homeless person.
A PTSD Vietnam War veteran took notice of me and let my feral human self live in his garden shed. There I cooked up rice and whatever else I could scrounge up on a little electric burner. My environmental footprint was still small.
Then I got a job that paid enough to fix my broken down car (even then I was a pretty good mechanic), returned to college, got even higher paying jobs and returned to my environmentally destructive ways.
My wife and I live in a high population density neighborhood, we drive a car that gets 40-50 mpg, my wife is vegetarian approaching vegan and I'm mostly vegetarian, we've rarely traveled by air, etc.., but our family income is higher than 99%+ of earth's human population and that makes our environmental footprint huge.
The core problem is the way our economic system works. What we commonly call "economic productivity" isn't productivity at all. It is, in fact, a direct measure of the damage we are doing to earth's natural environment and our own human spirit.
It's an unfortunate reality that most of us suffer work that is not making the world a better place.
GreenWave
(12,239 posts)ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)In not one moment in human history has it not existed.
Sheesh. Did you never read any Edith Wharton or Henry James?
Or didn't it dawn on you why there was that rule about not coveting in the big book of bad ideas?
MuseRider
(35,109 posts)#1 Air conditioner. I live in Kansas, not the coolest (in any way you mean that) place in the world to live. On the 9th of July when we have had many days in the upper 90's I have yet to turn on my air
conditioner. I do not have drapes nor do I have any shades and my house is mostly windows. You just have to make use of the cooler times and figure out where fans can be used the best way. Yes,
some afternoons I feel a bit sweaty but it does not last long. If I have to go somewhere where I will adjust and use it because sweaty is not for company, lol. Our heat index last week was up into the
triple digits. It got uncomfortable but not for long enough to turn it on. We have a double array of solar panels and by doing this and using them our bills are quite low and we are keeping our usage
low. I swear that by doing that little by little you will adjust and it will not feel like you are going to die without a cool blast.
#2 If you can put in Geo thermal. We are really close to our big pond, about 3 acres of water, so enough to put the pumps in. It helps most in the winter for us but it does lower our bills and usage.
#3 The hardest part is to just do these things. I tend to be one who was determined to use this place to the best of our abilities. It is MY farm but it is OUR house and it is what he wanted, large. It has
been a challenge but we have figured it out.
I do not use electric gadgets in the kitchen, not sure how much that helps. A manual can opener is fine, if I need I have a little mixer etc. Gas stove that has its own problems and I do love my Insta pot.
Learn to dress inside like you do for the outside and remember all the things that make you feel better when you are cold or hot and use them. We are not doing much more than that but it has really helped.
Basic, small solar panels will help a lot in a home. Go slowly and figure out what you are willing to do or what you know you should do and work toward it. We have been here on the farm for about 15 years and we are just now feeling the rhythm of it all. It is likely not much but I am pretty proud of how it has worked out.
Kaleva
(40,146 posts)Don't cut yourself short or it may cost you dearly in the long run
Takket
(23,456 posts)Marthe48
(22,684 posts)I have huge lawns all around me, and the neighbors spend hours every week from March to Oct (or later) on lawn tractors mowing. Such a waste of time, fossil fuel and environment. They don't even go out in their yards, except to mow.
Kid Berwyn
(22,783 posts)You are right, though. It'd better to dump the whole lawn and golf course thing.
Niagara
(11,455 posts)We desperately need sustainable housing. There are advanced ways and technology to build homes to help protect against fire, tornado's, hurricanes and this includes flooding.
This isn't the first time and most likely won't be the last time time that I've mentioned Earthship homes on DU. I've been fascinated with Michael Reynolds and his Earthship Biotecture for the last decade. He started building these homes in New Mexico and now these homes have expanded in countries like Canada and New Zealand. Dennis Weaver hired Reynolds to plan and build his Sunridge home. The advantages of the fascinating Earthship home:
* are nearly fireproof since internal walls contain little to no oxygen
* most of the designs would qualify as earthquake-resistant
* exterior and interior walls are made from recycled tires, bottles and cans
* has it's own heating system
* has it's own cooling system
* collects rain from the roof, the water is used up to four times. It only takes a small amount rainfall to operate the water system
* contains built-in green houses for food
One disadvantage of earthship homes is that building one is extremely labor intensive. I don't know if these homes have mold issues after 25+ plus years after being built since no one ever does a follow up after that time, so I can't answer any questions about mold issues.
This video is about 8 years old. It's about 40 minutes long, although it explains how the house works.
This Earthship home is at least 7 years old and was built in Canada.
&t=485s
Then, I discovered this Eagleyew clay/straw house. This house is an inspiring concept and I absolutely would happily live in a home like this, although I don't need a house this large. This house has 3 separate heating sources and a living roof.
&t=427s
For additional interest, here's a house that's hurricane proof that has pilings that can rise or fall depending on flood water. This home is termite resistant and doesn't use gutters either.
My reply most likely isn't what the OP wanted answered. However, if we construct homes to the current problematic weather conditions in different areas, that's ultimately going to save lives, resources, time and money. It won't solve all of our climate change issues, but it would make a difference.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)I was wondering what people would give up, but after reading more of the headlines posted today, finding ways to survive is another side of this coin.
Niagara
(11,455 posts)You're absolutely correct about finding ways to survive. Anything we can improve on would be wonderful.
Retrograde
(11,373 posts)The Earthship houses look like they need a lot of land to be "self-sufficient" - but I think a large fraction - if not a majority - of people worldwide live in cities or other urban environments.
Niagara
(11,455 posts)Earthship houses can be scaled down, I'll share two videos that I found for mini or tiny Earthship's that don't require an abundance of land to be built.
Although, the outer wall of the house is generally packed with earth which helps with the "insulation" and structure function. I'm not sure how that would work in city/urban environments and with building permits. Apparently I get really excited when thinking about not having neighbors within yelling and dog-barking proximity of me. And now since you mentioned it, I'm thinking that it would be most likely easier to build a clay/straw bale type of home in urban settings, which still would use less resources to build.
Here is a smaller scale of an Earthship, unless you want to watch the entire 45 minute video, fast forward to the timestamp 18:30 where you can see how the interior is micro living.
This is a quick 6 minute video for a mini Earthship.
&t=258s
Bettie
(19,231 posts)We have two dogs and several cats.
DH has hobbies that take space and time, blacksmithing and woodworking. Neither can be done in an apartment setting.
I grew up in apartments...smelling everyone else's food, hearing everyone else's arguments, knowing that they heard every time our father decided we needed to be 'disciplined' with the belt.
Nope.
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)Almost everyone is responding with comments about how they can't actually make any kinds of meaningful changes that will make any difference at all.
I guess Don't Look Up was prophecy.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)is that people are being told
- don't travel unless absolutely necessary (so no visiting family or going on vacation)
- trade in your family sized range for a hot plate (families don't need to get together to have meals anyway)
- get rid of anything that might make your life a bit easier and allow more leisure time (use that manual sweeper instead of a robot vac)
- give up your detached home and move into an apartment/condo (doesn't allow you to have a garden or open space? Tough)
If the only way to survive is to live a miserable existence, then what's the point?
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)Assuming, of course, you are not serious about just embracing that extinction. But who knows? Maybe you are.
And BTW, those were suggestions or statements. Obviously no one was being told to do anything. Unless you are somehow forced to do things by reading internet posts.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)But anyone not willing to go along with them is basically told that we don't care about climate change.
What am I willing to do? I minimize driving for errands, combining as many things into one trip as possible, I've installed energy efficient siding, windows, & HVAC, gone all LED for lighting, utilize reusable shopping bags, and recycle whatever I can.
But am I going to give up flying to see my daughter and her husband a couple of times per year? Nope.
Am I going to give up my range for hot plate and tell my other daughter to come over for dinner anymore? Nope
Am I going to give up the robot vacs and use a manual sweeper and spend 30 minutes sweeping my floors every day when I get home from work to handle the dog hair and stuff they bring in from outside? Nope.
Am I going to sell my detached house with the big yard and move into an apartment or condo in order to reduce my carbon footprint? Nope.
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)creating the world you want to leave for your daughters?
To do that, we will all have to get a bit extreme. But no one wants to go there.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)and I don’t obsess over my carbon footprint.
And yes, I’m fine with the world I’m leaving my daughters, as are they.
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)Happy Hoosier
(9,388 posts)… but to truly address the issue requires systemic action.
I‘m not saying don‘t do anything if you think it worthwhile, but action on a worldwide level is what is needed.
Another Jackalope
(136 posts)In the spirit of "Think Globally, Act Locally" ... let's start by getting American Republicans on board. Would be good practice for global cooperation, no?
WASF
Happy Hoosier
(9,388 posts)Those assholes are completely divorced from reality.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)Life as we know it on this planet as it is going to change, and humans and the rest of the creatures might not, probably won't, survive the changes. Earth will heal, and some new life forms will inherit what we had. Sorry to be so grim.
Happy Hoosier
(9,388 posts)… from this. But there is a good chance we suffer devastating losses.
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)As an aside, a lot of people replied to my post about apartment living with pronouncements of how awful apartments are. The notion even seems to anger some of posters, which is quite weird.
But I've just now been reminded of the benefits of apartment living. Maybe people in other parts of the country suck more than they do here, but I love my neighbors. My building is a close knit community of people who watch out for each other.
We're having a bad storm here. A ton of rain has fallen in a few hours. We've had 5 "hundred year storms" in the last few years that put water in our garage.
I just went down to check the garage, found 4 of my neighbors down there. We discussed whether to move our cars out of the garage, decided we would, helped each other park, shared umbrellas for the walk back inside. One guy is a night owl and he offered to check for water in the garage in a few hours and call those who haven't moved their cars if they need to.
Our apartments are big and beautiful and quiet. We have access to acres of park and a lake just across the street, and a walking village where we can get most of what we need.
I understand that apartment living is not for everyone, but it's a shame that people feel the need to denigrate it the way they do every time the subject comes up here. It would never occur to me to say such things about houses to people who live in them.
And it really IS great for the environment.
Coventina
(29,083 posts)no matter how gentle, that they are being selfish make them lash out.
It's defensive.
Just remember, it's not about you, it's them and their way of avoiding their guilty conscience.
NutmegYankee
(16,454 posts)You can't gaslight me on the experience. I lived it and damn well know first hand how it was. It isn't what you describe by any long shot.
I may not have a large home, but my soon to be paid off mortgage is cheaper than the lowest cost studio apartment in this region. It's my space to enjoy my life as I see fit without some authoritarian nazi fuck making tons of rules on what color I can paint a wall or what sound system I can use. I can arrange my yard to create vast flower gardens, and set up whole section with raised beds to allow significant vegetable growing. Those beds are mine, and I can add new ones or upgrade them as I choose. My yard is completely in my control, and I leave portions of it un-mowed to allow the 'weed' flowers, including the extensive red/white clover to blossom and nourish the bumble bees, which are everywhere. I look out right now and see a New England Cottontail munching away on the tall grass, which thankfully they prefer over my gardens. This is MY place of Zen.
Try to understand that what you like and enjoy are NOT what others like and enjoy. You came off in a very judgemental, dictating manner, and most of the left is anti-authoritarian. You shouldn't be so surprised by the responses.
Niagara
(11,455 posts)Looking at all the negative responses, apparently there are a majority of us that had distressful experiences while enduring apartment living that we will never forget that part of our lives. It's the equivalent of returning to an abusive relationship. Thanks, but no thanks.
No one can gaslight me on the experience either. 
Scrivener7
(58,179 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 10, 2023, 07:38 PM - Edit history (1)
I have not been in any way rude about the different housing choices named by anyone else in this thread. I have defended against the judgment others have shown, some quite rudely, toward my housing choice. And I have managed to do it without returning that rudeness. I have said nothing against any choices that differ from mine.
You accuse me of gaslighting. You say living in multi unit housing is not what I describe. And yet for me, it is exactly what I describe. Your calling my description of my lived experience "gaslighting" is actually, in itself, a perfect example of gaslighting.
My statement that multi-unit housing is better for the environment seems to anger some in this thread. But it is simply a fact. And my defense against the judgment of others toward my housing choice seems to anger some people too. This anger doesn't fit the statements I have made about housing, because the statements I have made about housing have simply been descriptions of my good experiences. The anger, I have to conclude, must come from within the posters who are expressing it rather than from anything I have said. There is nothing I can do about that.
Kaleva
(40,146 posts)Like moving if it means a decrease in ones standard of living.
Giving up on materials things is too much to ask so they do nothing
Another Jackalope
(136 posts)I like to keep my expectations realistic.
MerryBlooms
(12,137 posts)We've updated all our appliances to energy efficiency, including hot water heater, and refrigerator within last 6 months. We'll replace the heat pump this fall, then in November, the furnace. We have ceiling fans to help circulation. Our temperatures have risen quickly, and we've had lots of days in the mid 90's and some 100's, with more coming. Our highest bill has been $115, and I don't think that's horrible for 1,500 sq.ft'.
I buy my clothes at the close-out goodwill bins, by the pound. Lol It's the stuff goodwill got for free, jacked up the prices so high, no one bought. So, you grab a shopping cart, and get some beautiful items for little a nothing. Many items I buy still have store tags on them I buy for me and 3 women out in the homeless area behind our house. I'm also able to sometimes get them nice sleeping bags, boots, coats, backpacks, etc... and a whole cart will cost under $40! I do by them new sock and unders tho, because I don't skimp on that. But, if folks want to help the coats for kids, or others in needs, check to see if goodwill has a Bins in your area! Goodwill makes a huge profit no matter what.
My 23 y/o Honda Accord 5 manual, has 105,000. I don't drive much except work, I fill up about every 6 weeks. I mostly run the a/c when my sister is with me, otherwise, I do okay with windows down, unless over 95 degrees, then I splurge on myself after work, that way I am way less cranky from heat and nutty drivers.
We have zero lawn. We do have a combination of tropical oasis and vegetable gardens. As soon as you walk up our sidewalk, the temperature drops about 10 degrees. We have lush arbors, Orientals maples, and green covering the whole lot, except river rock and moss paths. Hundreds of iris, hundreds lily of every type, clematis, star jasmine, wisteria, rose arbor, hosta, shasta daisy, trumpet, lily of the valley, mums, succulents, cactus... You name it, it's probably here by design, squirrel or bird! I replaced all our sprinkler heads... I'm peak watering now, but our water bill was $35 last month, so will be a bit more this month.
We have hummingbird bath fountains hanging, plus regular fountains and bird baths. Large tolling chime that reminds me of the church bells when I was a kid.
I have battery yard and hand tools. I'm not strong enough to handle the upkeep without them, and there's no way we could afford to pay for someone to come in to do what I do to maintain our oasis. It's a lot of work, but it brings us such joy! Now, inside the house is different story. I can't do much of that on my own anymore, especially working outside our home. We share all the cooking and cleaning, but we pay (well) for repairs and such.
I'm 60, I have been working on lightening my worldly possessions for years. My sons have chosen not to have children. That's huge in the positive column. They have zero interest in most family keepsakes, except items that directly relate to myself and husband; wedding rings, jewelry my sons helped choose, our hope chest, things with wonderful memories and meaningful. Definitely not old family photos from ages ago of people they feel no connection, not even the old tintypes.
There's a lot more we will do. We have been talking about trading in our cars for something better environmentally wise. But, we still need 2 cars, because while I'm at work, my youngest sister needs to get our oldest sister to doc appointments and the Bins! Lol
I know I've rattled on, but I really enjoyed your OP, and the responses. Plus, really good day at work, even though it was way long.
Have a lovely evening.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,141 posts)Your world sounds amazing. An Edenish Shangri-La.
MerryBlooms
(12,137 posts)It's County Fair time, so my sister entered some of her handmade jewelry, I entered traditional Irish soda bread, fudge, an Audrey ll costume, and then 10 items from my garden. Such fun! I'll take pictures on Wednesday and try to post and winners. I did win grand champion for my white Asian lily before, but this year she's even more magnificent with a 7 bloom crown! The open bloom is about 8" across and the scent is heavenly! I may be a little biased, I've been caring for her for 6 years now, and she's my favorite lily in the garden. Fingers crossed!
Niagara
(11,455 posts)I do run the fully loaded dishwasher instead of washing by hand due to the fact that 1. A dishwasher uses less energy and water compared to hand washing. 2. Dishes and utensils should be sanitized in 160F water, a human hand can't handle that temperature. I always try to wash a full load of laundry as well, but since I have a cat that sometimes has a vomiting episode, sometimes I have to wash the couch cover and blankets without it being on a full load. Since we upgraded to a front load washer several years ago, we use a great deal less of laundry soap.
I buy new clothes and shoes. I wear them until they're not fit to wear anymore. This winter, I had to have help throwing away torn, falling apart parka that was about 23 or 24 years old. By help, I mean that SO had to throw it away for me.
I purchased a brand new car in 2003 and drove that until it wasn't repairable anymore in 2018. I then purchased a used older vehicle. I have regular maintenance done on all my vehicles like oil change, proper PSI in tires, air filter, spark plugs and that sort of thing. I always keep my vehicle clean as well.
A high amount of my neighbors have their lawn sprayed. I refuse to put chemicals on my lawn which means the honey bees like my lawn cover. I've been feeding the local hummingbirds for a few years now and I make the food for them. I also use non-toxic cleaners in my home, although sometimes I have to break out the tougher cleaners for tougher cleaning jobs.
I like to support my local farmer's by stopping by the Farmer's Market on Saturdays. We don't generally waste our food and eat leftovers frequently.
I don't run the water while shaving my legs or brushing my teeth.
I've been using reusable bags at the market and grocery store since before plastic bags were banned in my state.
My SO is awful about leaving lights on in the house when a room in not in use. It seems like I'm always right behind him turning off the lights.
I'm glad that you rattled on, it actually inspired me to list things that I already do.
Hoping that you a nice evening as well.
MerryBlooms
(12,137 posts)I truly believe that. If we continue to reach back and lift up every day, in little ways, that's what it's all about.
Green spaces wherever we can have them, make a difference. The new part of our mobile park is all rock, it's at least 20 degrees hotter in those parts! Awful!! I see folks have those brand new homes up for sale... They paid $220,000+ for them! They will never recoup their investment. This is the most expensive park in our valley right now, and the least green. Only us fire survivors have green space and small trees. The California company that owns us, came in after the fire and cut down every tree on the property that was old growth, citing fire hazard. I cried when they cut down the grove of huge beautiful cedar! They were huge majestic grand trees, turned into mulch and whatever other nonsensical human whim.
I keep our property pristine, otherwise, the management will try to force me into the rock landscape life. If that happens, we're gone.
MerryBlooms
(12,137 posts)The excess packaging for shipping is incredible. I have stopped online ordering, with exception from a few Green companies, same with my son. My other son does zero online now. Fortunately, everything I could possibly need to buy, is within the radius of my work, same with my sons, but millions of folks are not that fortunate! Heck, there are millions trapped in food deserts!! We are very privileged and we know it.
My son sends me hand-made organic bath bombs for mother's day and Christmas. No excess packaging, all packaging reusable or recyclable, and the bath bombs are sealed in a dissolving starch. Many companies need to move to the same model. Reuse, recycle, dissolve!
A HERETIC I AM
(24,841 posts)Like a coffee grinder that is connected to the web and will order coffee beans for you when you’re out. Do we REALLY need such a thing? Seriously?
Or a fridge that knows when you are low on milk. I can understand that might help some people, the blind, for instance, but otherwise it just seems a bit silly.
Showbizkid
(118 posts)Americans are going to resist giving up coffee pods. Are 2.8 billion people in China and India going to give up a dream of, I dunno, air conditioning?
I'm not sure there is anything we can do as people in the "third world" seek the luxuries we take for granted.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)somewhere between coffee pods and clean water. What is the least comfort, the best quality of life?
Welcome to DU
prodigitalson
(3,191 posts)I'm willing to live without that.
meadowlander
(5,092 posts)This bullshit:
Especially for shows that nobody is going to remember in a year. It's like someone tried to work out scientifically the minimum number of identifiable features that would enable them to still market their lump of useless plastic and then mass produced tens of thousands of basically identical variants to the suckers of the world.
At least beanie babies and Cabbage Patch kids and Dutch tulip bulbs were mostly biodegradable once they'd run their course and began clotting up the garbage dumps of the world.
I can't believe in the context of peak oil and climate change that anyone thinks it's ethically sound to have anything to do with pointless tat like this. If you need daily reminders of your favorite pop TV show or movie of the moment make them your screen saver or print something out to post on the wall.
Marthe48
(22,684 posts)I'm for reusing anything that is reusable, but I don't see value in stuff like this.