Should "under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance? How about "In God We Trust" on money?

[True Dough]

Where do you stand?

[Walleye]

1. When I was in first grade I had a teacher who used to leave it out because of habit

I honestly think it spoils the whole pledge, “one nation indivisible” sounds good, don’t interrupt it with “under god” to divide us. Course it’s all because of Joseph McCarthy republicans and their fear mongering of godless Commies and marxists, which is what we have now.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

9. Charles Edward Bennett the author of HR 619 was a Democrat.

69 Stat. 290 - An Act to provide that all United States currency shall bear the inscription ""In God We Trust.""

https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/STATUTE-69/STATUTE-69-Pg290-2

[spooky3]

16. From Florida Nt

[rzemanfl]

2. This should be a poll.

I was just a little kid when the pledge changed, but I never said the words that were added. "One nation, um uh, indivisible, with liberty...."

[seleff]

31. Under the constitution

As a teacher (retired) and sports official I said the pledge a lot. I substitute "under the constitution". No one ever asked me about it..:

[Captain Zero]

62. I say, "One nation under LAW"

No one even notices it in a crowd.

[cyclonefence]

3. I remember when "under god" was added to the pledge

I think it was an American Legion campaign that got it added.

As I recall, it was accepted in my elementary school without any problem or discussion.
Except at my house, where it was pronounced Bullshit.

Back then, we started every day with The Pledge, The Lord's Prayer, and My Country 'Tis of Thee.

Then on to our abacuses and slates. Jesus.

[musette_sf]

24. Are you from NYC?

I ask because I went to early grades in CT where the Pledge was it, no prayer. Then when we moved to NYC I was SO confused, because the Lord’s Prayer was required after the Pledge. Not only that, but there was a bizarre ritual around it: first the Jewish kids sat down when the prayer began; the Catholics sat down after “And deliver us from evil”; the Protestants carried on with “For thine is the power (etc)”; then the Catholics joined in from our seats for the “Amen”.

I wonder how they ever figured that ecumenical mess out.

[marybourg]

49. Must have been specific to your school or district.

I went to public schools in the Bronx and Queens, and nobody even know what religion other kids were, let alone sitting down in any kind of order. We said only the Pledge. No prayer. When “under God” was ordered, I didn’t say it. And never have.

[Mossfern]

73. In my elementary school in Queens

We recited the Pledge of Allegiance, sang "My Country 'tis of Thee" then a student was chosen to read a Psalm from the Book of Psalms. After that (at least in Mrs. Lennon's 5th grade class) we lined up along the wardrobe wall and needed to show our hands for inspection and checked for a clean hanky and shined shoes. Mrs Lennon was a pip, but a fantastic teacher. This was public school P.S.176Q

The Jewish kids were allowed to omit the word "Chirst" or "Jesus" when we sang Christmas carols.

[marybourg]

76. In Queens I went (for 1 year, after moving from the Bronx)

to, I think it was P.S. 187, with Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel a year behind me. Yes, they sang in the schoolyard. Earth Angel.

[cyclonefence]

72. That is hilarious

I can just see the kids standing, sitting--almost like at church!

No, I went to grade school in Charleston WV, and thank god we had no Jehovah's Witnesses in our class--or maybe we did and they were too scared to protest

There were Jews in our class, though, and Catholics, and they just had to endure being Protestants for opening exercises. My mother, a Catholic, was confused about the ending of the prayer--as you say, she was brought up to end the prayer before "for thine" etc. No accommodation was made for non-Protestant non-Christians.

My father, an atheistic newspaper columnist, suggested public schools be fitted with Buddhist prayer wheels on the roof, so "school prayer" (which I guess was meant to make us kids behave ourselves) could be continuous and thus more effective.

The paper got lots of letters to the editor over that one.

[Croney]

4. Of course they should, but I don't expect that battle to be waged any time soon.

[Johonny]

34. I agree

[Sky Jewels]

5. Yes and Yes.

I’ll go farther and say the Pledge should be eliminated all together. It’s a bit of fascist mind eff-ery that has children promising to turn off their brains and remain loyal to a piece of fabric.

[ProfessorGAC]

40. What I Think Stupid...

...is that there are some high schools where I sub that still do the pledge.
I can't remember the last time any kid above freshman year stood up for it. So, they're just wasting 30 seconds of everybody's time.
I don't acknowledge it, even in junior high. I just find some paperwork to do.

[Sky Jewels]

42. I'm glad the Gen Zers are seeing through it.

Good for them for rejecting it.

[Music Man]

52. Indeed.

I teach high school, and I brought in a guest speaker to work with some of my kids. She was Canadian. She'd never happened to be in an American school at the beginning of the day, so when things started with the pledge, she was very confused. "You do that every day?" she asked.

We also had a German exchange student one year, and some of our kids couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that she didn't do a pledge of allegiance back home.

I think of a moment from M*A*S*H in which Colonel Flagg was confronting Sidney Freedman about not having signed a loyalty oath. Sidney said, "If I were a Communist, do you think I'd hesitate for a second to sign a loyalty oath?"

[ForgoTheConsequence]

6. Yes and yes.

It's a cold war relic that needs to go.

[Timeflyer]

13. Agree. Billy Graham and fear of godless commies was very influential at the time.

[vlyons]

7. yes indeed

There's supposed to be a separation of state and religion. In one wants to believe in an invisible sky god, who can suspend the laws of physics, biology, science, then just don't demand and pretend that everyone agrees.

[Kaleva]

8. Doesn't matter to me either way.

[onenote]

10. In the grand scheme of issues facing us, this ranks so near the bottom I can't believe its being

discussed here. To say nothing of how suicidal it would be for a political party to make this an issue.

But feel free to chat away.

[Bettie]

11. DH and I never say "under god"

nor do our kids.

And yes, it should be removed. Those two words take the power way from "One nation, indivisible" and give it to religions.

It's kind of funny, because right now, religion IS what divides us...whether you call it right wing christianity or trumpism.

[hlthe2b]

12. Make the dog our official American pet and replace all with "In DOG we trust."

Let the fundies feign dyslexia.

[Sky Jewels]

20. Personally I pledge my loyalty to kitties

I live to serve.

[hlthe2b]

21. 😜😉

[Easterncedar]

14. Well, let's save the planet first

Priorities. But yes and yes.

[EYESORE 9001]

15. 1957, huh

Conservatroids of all kinds look back on that era fondly, and 1957 was likely near the high-water mark. Things went downhill from there, in their opinion, as minorities began gaining the same rights as the dominant demographic of that day. No wonder they thought hell had come to earth.

Maybe your empty platitude to your god pissed him off good & proper. You do follow the bronze-age deity who was really into smiting and plagues, right? Not that wimpy successor who devised a means of forgiveness and made the ultimate sacrifice, obviously. How beta is that?

Every last mother’s one of you kkkreeps holds feelings of nostalgia for that time, even if not yet alive. You screwed the pooch when you mocked Yahweh and put that slogan on money. Money! Jesus threw the moneychangers from the temple, yet you dare to worship mammon. Two can play this game. Anyway, it’s retribution those you consider the enemy have the wind at their back.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

17. Yes x 2

[Deuce]

18. Yes & Yes...

[JHB]

19. Yes, the pre 50s versions should be restored, but there are bigger fish to fry right now

When it comes to picking your battles, this one would be a distraction compared to the ones that need winning soon.

[MayReasonRule]

22. No God In Government - Remove The Nefarious Delusion

It's okay to hold beliefs and genitals closely.

It is not okay to shove them down others throats.

This is that.

No one is a god damned thing. That's the real good news.

Here's to the rule of reason throughout our troubled land.

[Happy Hoosier]

23. Yes and yes.

A clear violation of the First Amendment IMO.

[RocRizzo55]

25. Remove god from...

everything government related.
As far as some of us are concerned, god is nothing more than dog spelled backwards.

[2naSalit]

26. Yes.

And yes.

[Old Crank]

27. Absolutely

[MrWowWow]

28. In God We Trust

Last edited Sat Jul 22, 2023, 10:45 AM - Edit history (1)

All Others Pay...or Get Carpet Bombed

-Change to that on U.S
currency.

[Prairie_Seagull]

29. As has been stated. Bigger fish, but, yes and yes.

"Trust" give me a fucking break.

[brooklynite]

30. It should and it won't.

Next issue?

[sinkingfeeling]

32. Yes to both, but won't happen.

[shrike3]

33. I'd be fine with it.

[roamer65]

35. Coins didn't start having the motto until 1864.

It started on the short lived 2 cent piece.

Definitely time to remove it.

[edisdead]

36. We could just leave the pledge out entirely

I am not big on forced nationalism.

And In God….. Yeah that’s a no brainer.

[Tanuki]

37. Unstable genius Sarah Palin on the subject:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/palin-on-pledge-of-allegi_n_122965

...""If It Was Good Enough For The Founding Fathers, It's Good Enough For Me"....

[The Grand Illuminist]

38. What about "Endowed by our creator"

from the Declaration of Independence?

[Celerity]

45. 85 plus years after the Declaration, parts of the US were still chattel enslaving my fellow black

Americans, so it is hardly surprising that the Declaration has some problematic language. Many of the Founding Fathers, including Washington and Jefferson, etc, were slave holders. The Constitution from the start, and until amended, only counted us black folk who were under the chattel yoke of slavery as 3/5ths of a free human.

The US has been white power (and especially wealthy, land-holding white male power) from its inception. The Rethugs are just attempting to take it back to its roots, and fundie christianity is one of the main cudgels in their toolkit of tyranny.

[pwb]

48. When did you live in America?

Your profile says you live in Sweden?

[Celerity]

54. I was born in Los Angeles, parents moved back to London whilst I was a toddler, then we moved

to Hong Kong for a few years, then back to London, where I grew up. I moved back to Los Angeles with my GF (now wife) for several years to read for my MBA in the mid 2010s, then moved back to London, and shortly after that we moved to Stockholm, where we currently reside. My legal US address is still in Los Angeles (Ted Lieu is my House rep, love him). I am the only US citizen in my nuclear family. My father is Swedish (and also holds UK citizenship), my mother is Bajan (Barbados) who also holds a UK passport. I also hold UK and Swedish passports, my wife is 100 per cent Swedish, but was born in London (where we met) so also holds two passports, UK and Sweden.

We may be forced (if the furthest RW Party in the current Swedish government, the ultra nationalist Sweden Democrats, gets its way and does away with dual/multi citizenship) to give up our Swedish citizenship, which puts us in a bind, as we will not give up our UK citizenships, but due to Brexit, losing Swedish citizenship now cuts us off from the EU freedom of movement scheme. We will likely have to go and obtain permanent residency and then citizenship in another EU (or EEA if we move to Norway, or EFTA, if we move to Switzerland) nation to maintain freedom of EU movement. I so hope Sweden is not so foolish that they cave into the far RW Sweden Democrats and revoke dual/multi citizenship.

[pwb]

55. Nice,

You have so many choices. Glad you still think of us back home, Peace to you. Sweden must be hard to leave.

[Celerity]

57. Overall, we love it here, but we will leave if we must do so to maintain the EU option whilst

also keeping our UK citizenships (and my American one).

2016 was a fucking nightmare (we were living in the US then). First Brexit, then Trump.

[pwb]

59. It is tough here.

Lots of division everywhere in the world. Good choices.

[Celerity]

60. I am dismayed at what is happening to America (and to some of the EU as well).

I HATE the far RW. They are fundamentally anti-human, a death cult at the end of the day.

[Elessar Zappa]

39. Sure.

As long as we’re ok with not winning any elections.

[NowISeetheLight]

41. Forever Strong

I think FOREVER STRONG would be a good replacement.

I love it when fanatics claim its a Christian Nation and point to "In God We Trust". When i hear something lile that I casually mention that it was added around 1957 after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus due to the Red Commie Scare Era. They completely STFU. I love it.

[Buckeyeblue]

43. Just don't say the "under god" part

I've been omitting that line for years. I've never been asked about it but my answer will be that I prefer the original version.

[Celerity]

44. absolutely

[Mariana]

46. Of course it should be removed.

It won't be because most Christians like it, and they're the majority.

[True Dough]

58. They're the majority for now...

Things are shifting, and that shift seems to be accelerating.

[Mariana]

77. It's still going to be a long while

until it gets to the point that they don't control everything.

[we can do it]

47. Yes to both.

[LAS14]

50. Sure, let's find a new culture thing to fight about.

Lots of other things more worth our time and attention.

[EnergizedLib]

51. Yes to both

[Oopsie Daisy]

53. I can't even remember the last time I was in a situation where the PoA was recited.

It always amuses me, however, to hear grown adults reciting the pledge in the same singsongy, short-verse, broken-stanza style that's taught to youngsters. In reality it is a well-constructed single sentence that should be read (or spoken) as such.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Not:

I pledge allegiance...
to the flag...
of the United States...
of America. 👈 (period not needed here. It ruins the meaning.)
And to the republic...
for which is stands...
one nation...
under god...
with liberty...
and justice...
for all.

[Emile]

56. No problem with me doing away with it, but it ain't

going to happen anytime soon.

[A HERETIC I AM]

61. Instead of picking a fight we can't win.....

We should pick one we probably could win.

How about advocating for the end of all “Blue Laws”?

If a properly licensed establishment wants to sell me a beer at 8 AM on a Sunday, or at 3 AM any day, or whatever hours they want to be open, or sell beverages of any alcohol content, then they should be allowed to.

The only reason so many municipalities have restrictions on Sunday liquor sales is because some Christians decided you should be in church instead of having a cocktail on Sunday morning.

Fuck that shit.

Oh…and legalize cannabis and mushrooms. Let people alter their state of mind if they want to. Frankly, we should do what Portugal did, and legalize everything and treat addiction like the health crisis it is, instead of a criminal act.

[dembotoz]

63. do you really wanna give the gop and the maga churches a ready made issue to fight for?

got bigger fish to fry.

the crazy fundies love to feel oppressed. war on christmas, no prayer at football games etc
Do we really wanna make it look like we are out to get them?

besides when was the last time you used cash

[pwb]

64. One could argue the word United could be removed as well?

The States Of America.

[True Dough]

67. These days,

that is an accurate statement, sadly.

[TwilightZone]

71. Not sure there was ever a time when that wouldn't have been true.

The lack of unity is nothing new. Outside of the World Wars, perhaps, I don't think the US could have been even considered unified. The states have always been their own little fiefdoms, their political influence and independence waxing and waning in the political winds at the federal level.

[ITAL]

65. Bills didn't have it until the 1950s

But many coins have from the Civil War on. Once when Theodore Roosevelt was having the Saint-Gaudens double eagle coin designed, the phrase wasn't included and there was a huge pushback from the population and the press.

Honestly, I don't care either way, merely pointing out the phrase on money has a much longer tradition than the Cold War.

[FreeState]

66. Yes n/t

[Sympthsical]

68. I don't care. I have never cared. I will continue to not care.

Signed, agnostic atheist irreligious sort.

There are so many things in this world to focus on. This is just pointless.

[Kennah]

69. Remove!

[Hortensis]

70. Of course. This is a secular state devoted to religious freedom, including

freedom from religion.

And the "pledge." Of course those who've completely betrayed and dishonored it will cling the hardest. It was always theirs anyway.

[aocommunalpunch]

74. Absolutely.

5 minutes ago. Fucking indoctrination.

[mzmolly]

75. Should be replaced by "in guns we trust."

[Eko]

78. Of course on both.

And anyone saying this is not important is just wrong. How many MAGA's use those as proof we are a Christian nation? How many people don't even know that those were added much later? Why should we continue to perpetrate that? I would say it has helped to lead us to exactly where we are.

[Xavier Breath]

79. God (ironically) bless the politician who attempts that undertaking.

They'll have both my respect and support, even though they won't be employed for long.

[TrotskyistTidings]

80. Should never have been added.

One thing about crypto it only pays homage to the god of greed.