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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRegarding the concern over Kerry's Senate seat in MA if he gets tapped for an administration post.
Last edited Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:34 PM - Edit history (1)
I've seen a lot of concern about Scott Brown getting a chance to win Kerry's seat in a special election if Kerry takes an administration post.
Don't be concerned, and here's why.
Back in 2003-2004, when Romney was governor of MA and Kerry was running for president, the law said the governor could appoint a successor.
The MA legislature changed the law to make sure Romney couldn't appoint a successor in the event of a Kerry victory. That's why there was a special election when Kennedy died; the law had been changed.
But if Kerry gets tapped for a Cabinet post, you can be sure the MA legislature will change the law back, so Patrick can appoint a successor and we won't have to deal with another Brown campaign. It won't even take an afternoon.
They didn't do it in 2010 after Kennedy because, well, it never occurred to anyone that they would need to. Now, we know, and the law will change back if Kerry leaves. We won't have Scott Brown to kick around any more.
On edit: even if they don't change the law, Brown still has to run again, and it won't be easy the third time. His act has gotten incredibly stale around here.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I think brown wants to run for governor.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)MA Democrats in the legislature don't care. This ain't patty-cake.
It looked political in 2004. They did it anyway. What's the damage? "Oh, those Massachusetts liberals!" The GOP thinks we're all communists here anyway, so fuck it.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)because I do not think they can make it retroactive
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)it won't take an afternoon.
babylonsister
(171,059 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)babylonsister
(171,059 posts)Don't read it.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)and I still don't get it.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)would lead to the application of the ex post facto clause to civil law because of the substative due process concerns raised by O'Connor in General Motors v. Everet 1992. We don't have a majority that would uphold that law, and trust me, you really don't want SCOTUS taking this one on until we do.
For 200 years, the ex post facto clause hasn't held to apply to civil law. You've come up with a scenario that would allow it to, using substantive due process, under a Robert's court, at rational review level.
You do not want to open up that Pandora's box.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Serious question: why didn't all this bad stuff happen when they changed the law in 2004, brazenly and for no reason other than rank fuck-you-Romney politics? There was no good reason to change it. The only reason was to deny Romney the power to appoint. They had the votes, they did it, and he had to choke on it...and none of that stuff happened.
Like I said, serious question.
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)if they want to do it- they should do it now, and not wait for Kerry to be officially nominated.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)but Kerry was in a tight race, so it was definitely possible. It was a pre-emptive strike. when they changed the law, but wound up being a moot point.
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)so yeah- i guess that there was a potentially open seat.
if it's changed back now, the repugs would probably scream bloody murder about trying to 'subvert the people's right to free and fair elections to choose their representatives', or some such crap.
and they'd have a point, as far as the public is concerned.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)...and after that, we can have a talk with them about the GOP redistricting Democratic House districts out of existence in the South and West.
Sauce for the goose.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Now you have a possible vacant seat. And another proposed change.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Nor was the issue 'ripe' unless and until he won.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)So they risked all that when they changed the law, had Kerry won.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)right wing of the Court a resounding victory for corporations and the like.
Imagine no ex post facto laws on taxation. Or on contracts. And, without me writing REAMS on this, please understand that it would also gut anti-trust and environmental protections. And we don't need the Roberts court meddling any further with those things.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Very much food for thought, thanks. And thanks for your patience, too.
Cheers.
P.S. I still don't know what a Calder analysis is. I looked it up and found stuff about horse racing.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I am quite put out by other things, and as I re-read my posts to you, I regret my tone and manner.
It's Calder v. Bull. I wrote a paper on it. It's an esoteric point.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)We've all been there. No worries.
What's a Calder analysis? Sorry, I edited my last reply to ask, but I don't think I made it in time.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I wrote a paper on it. It's an esoteric point involving the Federalists.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Thanks again.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)the Rascal House before the start at Calder. He had to have a bowl of that lentil soup before he bet, no matter how damn hot it was. A lifetime ago.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)st17011864200074656
(190 posts)Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick can now pick late Senator Ted Kennedy's replacement
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-23/news/17932570_1_deval-patrick-appoint-replacement
Edited to add: Governor Patrick chose Paul Kirk to be that replacement
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-24/news/17930396_1_sen-kennedy-vicki-kennedy-kennedy-family-friend
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,611 posts)It really upsets me to think that Scott Brown could get back in.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)he still has to win another election. Won't be so easy the third time.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,611 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)He came across as a total ass the last time, parading around with his wife and daughters everywhere he went, the stupid barn coat, old truck, endless indian heritage BS, etc. - I'd have to leave the state until it was over.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)At all.
That alone makes me positive they'll flip the law back. The folks in the legislature endured that campaign just like the rest of us, and they have the power to stop it from happening again.
Kidding, but not really.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Could he come into play somehow?
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)but I would be beyond astonished. Last I heard, he took another lawfirm job. I think he's out of the politics biz.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)but I'd rule nothing out. This is a strange state sometimes.........
MADem
(135,425 posts)That kind of shit doesn't always fly very well.
Also, he helped "W" prepare for his debates--talk about poor judgment.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)I don't see Bill making a comeback.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)This is the power of DU.
So I'm back to being all cheery about Kerry. So many good things to be happy about right now.
babylonsister
(171,059 posts)riverwalker
(8,694 posts)been worried about losing that seat.
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)AlinPA
(15,071 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)combined with a very bad Dem campaign, combined with an off-year election with low turnout. When he ran this time against Warren, 300,000 more voters went to the polls than did in 2010, and most of them were Democrats.
Bear in mind that MA is not as stereotypically blue as everyone thinks, too. Before Deval Patrick, we had GOP governors for sixteen years straight.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)by Toomey 3:1.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)and we need all liberals to stay senator-that means both Mass. ones
why is it in 2012 that people find being senator demeaning?
It's the #3 job in the nation to have, power wise.(after President and VP).
and SOS or SOD would be 4 years (unless Hillary45 kept him onboard in Jan.17).
Senators like Kerry and Warren can have the job for another 18 years if they choose to stay where they were elected for.
As it seems like Susan Rice will be SOS anyhow, I hope this issue passes by with Kerry remaining as Senator, where indeed he would have far greater power.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)It is unrealistic to think both will be there for 18 more years. There are many who feel that SOS is higher than being a Senator. In fact, it is likely impossible to compare. Not to mention, not all Senators are the same - and Kerry is one of the most powerful given his seniority and his skills. It is premature to speculate on who will win in 2016 - even in the Democratic primary.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'd like him to have a place in the Cabinet, because his talents would be great there too. But also as a poetic bookend to the awful Bush years. This is Obama's time, but I think Kerry deserves no small credit for breaking trail through some terrible years in the US. Standing up in 2004 wasn't any picnic.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)He's gone for good.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)If the Massachusetts Legislature thinks that a Governor's appointment is a good idea, have them do it now. Anyone who thinks that changing the law to win one specific seat better not complain again about gerrymandering districts or any other attempt to "rig" an electoral outcome.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)a special election had to take place within 145 days.
So, if Kerry takes a cabinet position then the same thing will probably happen.