By law, may one claim a single letter (e.g., X) of the alphabet as a brand name or as a trademark?

[xocetaceans]

Last edited Mon Jul 24, 2023, 06:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm just curious if there is any legal precedent for this sort of claim. It seems that both x and X should be seen as common property of the language and not the property of any corporation or anyone, regardless of how wealthy that person may be or of how large that person's ego might be. In accordance with that, should there be a fuller name required for the site formerly known as Twitter (e.g., Twit X, Musk X, etc.)?





(Thank you to all for such an interesting set of replies and the discussion.)

[MiHale]

1. It's a stylization of the letter...

So he can own that style. I guess it’s a little like font design, the artist doesn’t own the letter just the way it’s portrayed, the style.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Yes, it's been done many times.

[brooklynite]

3. Answer: yes...

When the trademark is for the RENDERING of the "X".

The brand name is still Twitter. The CORPORATE name is "X Corporation" The LOGO of the "X Corporation" is a stylized X, just like Nebraska Public Media has a stylized "N".

[Effete Snob]

4. No, it doesn't need to be stylized

Trademarks can be registered on standard characters.....

https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=76978329&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch

Word Mark O
Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Online wholesale and retail store services featuring general merchandise. FIRST USE: 20030929. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20030929
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 76978329
Filing Date August 8, 2003
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition December 14, 2004
Registration Number 3265584
Registration Date July 17, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) Overstock.com, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 799 West Coliseum Way Midvale UTAH 84047
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record E. Glen Nickle
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20170821.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20170821
Live/Dead Indicator


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In this instance, the X in question is a standard Unicode mathematical character:

𝕏 𝕏 𝕏 𝕏

You can type 𝕏 directly from any keyboard that allows you to type in Unicode notation.

[Frasier Balzov]

8. Associating it uniquely with a particular good or service and actually using it in commerce.

A low bar for protection, but the trademark laws are intended to promote legitimate economic activity.

[Effete Snob]

10. People have a lot of misconceptions about trademarks

This red triangle:



...is one of the oldest trademarks still in use.

The idea was originally to mark goods in trade so that illiterate riverboat workers could get them to the correct warehouse when they arrived on the barge.

For $300 you can file to register whatever you want, and a lot of dumb reporting is devoted to "so-and-so files to trademark (fill in dumb thing)" in the belief that by merely filing an application, one obtains some kind of monopoly on the word, phrase or whatever.

Anyone is free to draw red triangles.

What you are NOT free to do is to put it on your beer label, because it has been distinctive of Bass Ale for a very long time.

They even point it out on their label:

[Frasier Balzov]

14. "England's First Registered Trademark"

Bragging rights AND an intellectual property notice.

Haha very good.

[keep_left]

5. The X Window System, familiar to any Mac owners using Unix software.

It has a stylized "X" that is very similar to "Twitter/X" and predates it by decades.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18115701
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18115633
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System

[Effete Snob]

6. It's a standard Unicode character

It is not a "Twitter X".....

It is Unicode character 1D54F

[keep_left]

9. So the Twitter logo is really just a Unicode character?

I had no idea Unicode had anything like that. But then again, I'm not usually looking at a Unicode chart, so that's probably why.

The X Windows logo does look somewhat more stylized than Unicode character 1D54F. Though one must be based on the other (my guess would be that X Windows predates Unicode, since its first release was in 1984).

[Ms. Toad]

20. On a quick look, I'm not seeing a registration related to Unix or X Windows, or Apple for

X that is similar to the one used by X Windows.

The goods/services might be similar enough to preclude the use of the letter X, I didn't see any registration for a symbol even close to the one Twitter currently has.

Both the graphic (if a graphic, rather than word mark) and the goods and services have to be confusingly similar.

[keep_left]

21. It may in fact be unregistered. The software goes back decades (1984) and is...

...what I would call semi-open-source (MIT License), developed by many people and "owned" by an institution. The software itself is protected by license, and it is still being developed (continuously since 1984). But the people at MIT may not have registered the stylized "X" as a commercial trademark. The software is ubiquitous on Unix computers, including Macs.

[Ms. Toad]

22. The stylized X at the Wikipedia link

isn't close enough to bar the stylized X used by Twitter (even for the same goods and services).

As to registration - it is use that established the mark. Registration is just centralized proof of ownership. If the owner cares, and has been using it continuously since 1984, and it is confusingly similar to the X now being used by Twitter, it is more complex but trademark can still be asserted.

[keep_left]

23. Yeah, it looks like Twitter is just using a Unicode character.

It's Unicode 1D54F.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218115703#post6

[Rob H.]

34. Macs running OS X are using Quartz, not X

Per the wikipedia link posted above:

Competitors

Some people have attempted writing alternatives to and replacements for X. Historical alternatives include Sun's NeWS and NeXT's Display PostScript, both PostScript-based systems supporting user-definable display-side procedures, which X lacked. Current alternatives include:

macOS (and its mobile counterpart, iOS) implements its windowing system, which is known as Quartz. When Apple Computer bought NeXT, and used NeXTSTEP to construct Mac OS X, it replaced Display PostScript with Quartz. Mike Paquette, one of the authors of Quartz, explained that if Apple had added support for all the features it wanted to include into X11, it would not bear much resemblance to X11 nor be compatible with other servers anyway.

[keep_left]

36. No, they use both. A beginner to intermediate user will probably never use X, but Unix...

...software requires X Windows to run natively. This was one of the selling points to academia when Apple changed to a Unix (BSD) operating system years ago. X has always been an option for Macs. I have run a few things as native Unix programs under X over the years. A lot of scientific and engineering software still runs on X, and it's a great option for people who want to run Unix software on the same machine as their Mac software.

[Rob H.]

37. They *could* use both, but X11 was a separate install

that had to be carried out by the user because it's not part of Mac OS. The last time Apple posted a link to an X11 installer on their website in order to run Unix applications was in 2003 and stopped supporting X11 in 2012; now their officially-endorsed alternative is the open source alternative XQuartz.

[keep_left]

38. Yeah, it was an optional install on the DVD, and XQuartz is the replacement. There are similar...

...things going on for other kinds of Unix (e.g. Linux), because X is starting to show its age. I think there are some leading-edge versions of Linux that have already left X behind. There is still software that won't run on MacOS (or runs best on X) that is really useful, especially in academia. I know a number of people doing scientific work (X-ray crystallography, etc.) that run Unix apps on Macs.

[Effete Snob]

12. Another common misconception about trademarks

Ever heard of Delta?

You know... the airline...



Or how about the power tool manufacturer?



Or how about the faucets?



The dental insurance?




All of them have registered marks for "DELTA".

Just like "MONSTER" energy drink, "MONSTER" employment service, "MONSTER" a/v cables; or just like "UNITED" airlines and "UNITED" van lines, it is possible for multiple parties to own registered trademarks for different goods and services.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

27. That table saw is missing a wing and that's why you can't fly it.

But my faucet simply ignores me when I try to buy a ticket!

I am so confused in the marketplace.

[allegorical oracle]

17. Trademarking your whatever can be a royal pain. Not along ago I read that Disney keeps a full staff

whose sole job is to watch for any of its trademarked characters being used without permission.

Once a mark is neglected it can fall into generic use. That's happened to a famous WWII vehicle, a well-known tissue, and the first photocopier brand that comes to your mind. I once used a "hook and loop fastener" brand name (it starts with a V) and got a slightly grumpy letter in about five days "educating" me to use the (R) or else refer to it as a hook and loop fastener. Or else.

[Ms. Toad]

19. There are well over 100 trademarked uses of the letter X

In the same international class Twitter registered the brand "Twitter" in.

Class is everything. Just because X Japan owns the mark for the classes in which it is registered does not allow it to exclude use in other classes, or for other goods and services.

[allegorical oracle]

11. If he got any flak, Musk could declare it is one of his logos. As others have said: stylized. My

take on it, though, is that it's hard to believe it is sufficiently original or unique to become recognizable as a logo or an iconic symbol. Moreover, the simpler and more mundane it is, the more easily it can be unintentionally infringed and Musk could sue someone. But maybe he wants it that way.

[Ms. Toad]

18. It doesn't have to be stylized.

It just has to be available for the classes for which Musk wants to use it.

X is a very crowded field, including several for the class 009 and 035 (the classes for which Twitter is registered). Musk would have to very carefully thread the needle to find a path to allowance.

[allegorical oracle]

28. He would have to use the (R) mark with the Z wouldn't he? nt

[Ms. Toad]

29. Do you mean with the Z?

Until the mark is registered, he cannot use (R) with the X (or Z, or whatever).

Prior to registration, a TM superscript can be used to notify the world that you are using it as a trademark.

But neither is required. It makes a difference in damages. If you use either (properly) you are putting potential infringers on notice that you have registered it as your mark. That allows you to collect more damages because the infringer was actually on notice of the registration.

[BigmanPigman]

13. A old friend of mine used to write "X" instead of his name.

I told him he couldn't do that and he said it is a "mark" but I was wrong. It turned out he was a crook and this was one way to conceal his identity.

[Ms. Toad]

16. Different kind of mark.

Any mark (generally, not related to trademarks) that is intended to act as a signature is a signature - even if it bears no resemblance ot the name of the person signing.

[Ms. Toad]

15. Trademarks are tied to the class in which they are used and cannot be descriptive

They identify the source of the particular goods/services for which the mark is used. So using a single letter as a mark doesn't take it out of the "common property of hte language."

So, for example, Twitter is registered for iternational classes 009 and 035. Anything that falls within the descriptions:

Software and software applications to enable transmission, access, organization, and management of text messaging, instant messaging, online blog journals, text, weblinks, and images via the internet and other communications networks; computer software used to enhance the capabilities and features of other software and non downloadable online software; software for accessing information on a global computer network; downloadable software via the internet and wireless devices for accessing, sending, and receiving information on a global computer network; downloadable software for computers, portable handheld digital electronic communication devices, mobile devices, and wired and wireless communication devices for facilitation of communication and data transmission in the field of social networking; downloadable software in the nature of a mobile application for use with computers, portable handheld digital electronic communication devices, mobile devices, and wired and wireless communication devices for facilitation of communication; downloadable software in the nature of a mobile application for social networking; downloadable software in the nature of a mobile application for real-time delivery of data, messages, location, photographs, links, text and other data related thereto; downloadable software to facilitate online advertising, business promotion, connecting social network users with businesses and for providing strategy, insight, marketing, and predicting consumer behavior.

and

advertising and marketing; advertising services; online advertising and marketing services; business data analysis; promotional services; business networking; online service for connecting social network users with businesses; business monitoring and consulting services, namely, providing strategy, insight, marketing guidance, and for analyzing, understanding and predicting consumer behavior and motivations, and market trends.

Presumably musk would need to register X as a source identifier (mark) for similar classes.

But registering X as Twitter's mark for the above classes would not prevent anyone from using X to market - for example - T-shirts, shoes, diswashers, cars, etc. Twitter only gets exclusive rights as a source identifier for goods or services that fall within the described classes.

AND - if X is descriptive (for example, X-rated might be considered descriptive), the descriptive part will need to be disclaimed. For example Warrior Automobile Detailing LLC (both a graphic and word mark, now dead) had to disclaim "Automobile Detailing LLC" as descriptive of the service of automobile detailing. So someone else could use the mark Zanboozle Automobile Detailing, Inc. for an automobe detailing service.

[marybourg]

24. I seem to remember a trademark dispute between Apple Computers and the Beatles,

who called their production company Apple or some iteration thereof. I’d be surprised if Musk doesn’t find himself in a trademark dispute eventually.

[Ms. Toad]

25. The issue was Apple entering the music business.

The Beatles owned the Apple mark for their production company. Apple computers was entering music-adjacent fields. As the result of a settlement, they paid a bunch to the Beatles - AND - agreed to split the market. (The beatles wouldn't enter computer-land, and Apple wouldn't enter music-land.)

[marybourg]

31. Thank you. I think Musk is looking for trouble. Or publicity.

[Ms. Toad]

32. I think he just has no impulse control.

Sort of like someone else we know . . .

Pretty sure he saw a sparkly new name and wanted it. NOW. His in-house counsel (if he has any) probably doesn't know enough about IP law to warn him and/or he just wouldn't listen.

[marybourg]

33. I think you got that right!

[IcyPeas]

26. Prince did this: (not a letter, but a symbol)

[TrotskyistTidings]

30. You could ask Eloons son, ğ+:č in a few years.

[ripcord]

35. I'm amazed at the little things that bother people