family of three went to live off grid in remote Colorado, found starved to death a year later

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

Three found dead at campsite were members of Colorado Springs family who planned to live 'off grid'


The decomposed and partially mummified bodies of three people who were recently found at a remote western Colorado campsite were two adult sisters and one woman's 14-year-old son, Gunnison County Coroner Michael Barnes said.

The deceased are Christine Vance, 41; Rebecca Vance, 42, and Rebecca's son, all from Colorado Springs. Two were found in a tent down the road from a campsite in the Gunnison National Forest about nine miles (14.5 kilometers) from Ohio City, Colorado, Gunnison County Coroner Michael Barnes said in an interview Tuesday. Officials have not named the son because he is a minor.

Their bodies showed signs of malnourishment, with two in the tent and one outside. Though a cause of death has yet to be determined while authorities wait for toxicology reports to be processed, the group may have succumbed to starvation, freezing temperatures or carbon monoxide poisoning from trying to make fire to stay warm, Barnes said.

The three likely started camping in July 2022 and died sometime over the winter. Family members told Barnes that the group embarked on a trip last summer and planned to live “off the grid.”

-----------------------

“I wonder if winter came on quickly and suddenly they were just in survival mode in the tent,” Barnes said. “They had a lot of literature with them about outdoor survival and foraging and stuff like that. But it looked like they supplied at a grocery store.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/three-found-dead-at-campsite-were-members-of-colorado-springs-family-who-planned-to-live-off-grid/ar-AA1elD3i

From left: Rebecca Vance's 14-year-old son, Rebecca Vance, Trevala Jara, Christine Vance and Tommy Jara. The photo was taken days before the three campers headed to a remote camping area in Gunnison County.



“(Rebecca) was fearful of a lot of things with the way she thought the world was going,” said Jara, who grew up with Christine and Rebecca. “She was actually trying to save her son, and our sister.”

In early August, a couple of days before they set off for Gunnison, the Vance sisters stopped by Jara’s home in Security to drop off some family possessions and “to say goodbye,” Jara said. While they were there, Jara and her husband, Tommy, attempted to talk them out of leaving.

“We tried to stop them,” Jara said. “But they wouldn’t listen. Their minds were made up.”

The campers told no one but Jara and her husband what they were planning to do.

"But they wouldn't tell us where they were going," she said.

Jara was concerned that her sisters and nephew were courting danger, particularly because they had no outdoor survival experience.

“You can’t go on the internet and watch videos on how to live off the grid, and then actually do it, if you have no experience,” Jara said. “You just can’t do that. They died of starvation because they weren’t prepared.”

https://gazette.com/news/local/colorado-springs-based-campers-found-dead-in-gunnison-county-were-trying-to-live-off-the/article_9769319e-2b28-11ee-a55b-c3059a004492.html

[tanyev]

1. Fearful of a lot of things so you go live in a tent in a remote area in Colorado.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. What a sad story. That poor kid.

[Javaman]

3. morons.

everyone likes to think they can just pick up and live "off grid".

you need a deep knowledge of a variety of things to take on such a thing

if they died in a tent, they were extraordinarily ill prepared.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

4. died only 9 miles from a town. at least have a cell phone and way to charge it.

they must have had no communication, no transportation in the end.

[Javaman]

5. yup, morons.

colorado springs is known as the right wing capital of religious nuts. I wonder how much of that influenced their ill fated quest to live off grid?

[niyad]

11. Sadly true. But there are many good Dems here as well, working hard to

turn El Paso county blue.

[former9thward]

30. The "right wing capital of religious nuts" just elected a Black immigrant as Mayor.

[TeamProg]

40. Doesn't sound like a leftie here:

Media: Can I ask you, though - you are an independent candidate, but when you look at your policies, do you consider yourself progressive? Do you consider yourself conservative? How do you look at your own policies?

MOBOLADE: There are parts of my story that people would say Yemi is conservative, and what they mean is I'm a small business owner. The way I envision government is from a limited perspective. I moved to the city as a pastor. I teach at evangelical churches. So those parts of my story lend itself as conservative. And then when you look at my work in this city - has been to embrace our communities that have been so - part of our community socioeconomically that have not had a place at the table of city leadership, reaching out to the minority communities, the African community, the African American communities, and trying to provide economic opportunities and trying to serve as a bridge to parts of our communities that have been traditionally left out from the table. That would be, quote, unquote, "more progressive."

"Religious nuts" term still applies.

[Sky Jewels]

46. He's a Christian/missionary type loon.

Not much of an improvement for Colorado Springs.

[malaise]

61. Well they are now permanently off the grid

My sympathy is for the poor child who was with them

[Maru Kitteh]

111. They died on purpose and took a kid with them.

Unless it was carbon monoxide, they were all capable of walking nine miles. Probably hundreds of people walked nine miles in Colorado today for fun. They didn’t even have to make it the nine, just to the road and someone would have helped.

[jimfields33]

6. They hardly lived off the grid when going to the grocery store.

How they could starve while having groceries is the mystery though.

[Javaman]

7. how could they have starved?

please refer to my first response LOL

[CanonRay]

23. Ran out of groceries after the first snowstorm is my guess

Up high it doesn't just melt like in the Springs. Two feet of snow stays two feet of snow, until more is added. The area around Gunnison is one of the coldest in the state, and it was a very snowy winter.

I'd bet money they were "cristians".

[yonder]

35. Yes, I was going to add the Gunnison area IS often the coldest part of the state.

It looks like an uninformed and ill-prepared romantic notion was hit square by reality and lack of experience.

It's sad news for their family and friends though I suspect they've had a good idea of what happened - just not where.

[canetoad]

103. The article says cause of death not established yet

Although they had 'signs of malnourishment', starvation was listed among several other things as possible cause of death.

[treestar]

8. must have been quite stubborn not to give up earlier

and go back to re-prepare.

[2naSalit]

10. +1

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

13. its suspected they died in winter... maybe reached the point of no return?

no transportation, no communication, food runs out???

[Hortensis]

80. Umhm. Realization came rather suddenly perhaps. nt

[ShazzieB]

90. Hmmm...bitter cold, roads buried in snow, and their only shelter was a tent.

Gee whiz, I can't imagine what could have possibly gone wrong.

Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they froze to death.

Trying to live off the grid is a dangerous idea, only recommended for the very hardy and extremely well prepared. I feel sorry for anyone paranoid enough to think that was their best option, but for dog's sake, at least research the climate you're heading into first.

[NoMoreRepugs]

9. Stupid people do stupid things.

[Chakaconcarne]

12. Maybe the plan was to commit suicide?

Pretty good cover for life insurance and spending your last days in the wilderness?? Not too far-fetched.

[intheflow]

68. I'd also wondered that.

Be interested to see the coroner’s report when it’s released.

[Victor_c3]

14. I have a respectably amount of outdoor experience, but I'd certainly not call myself a survivalist

Hell, just from watching a few episodes of shows like “Alone” I quickly realize how hard it is to actually survive off the land. Nearly everyone of those guys is literally starving to death by the end of every season - and they’re the experts!

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

17. it's hard to grow or catch sufficient calories... kudos to farmers.

[Kaleva]

77. Very, very true.

[CanonRay]

38. I think it is virtually impossible to live off the land in Colorado in winter

without a sufficient store of food (dried meats and fruits, grains) there is simply not enough game and nothing edible growing.

[Scrivener7]

15. "(Rebecca) was fearful of a lot of things with the way she thought the world was going"

"Jara was concerned that her sisters and nephew were courting danger, particularly because they had no outdoor survival experience."

I'm going to guess we can put this at the feet of some Q-related terror monger.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

19. running from trans, CRT and round earthers??

[Victor_c3]

27. The proper term for a "round-earther" is "globe-tard"

I leaned that term from watching flat earth conspiracy documentaries with my kids. We enjoy some of that nonsense - and it totally drives my youngest daughter nuts when her sister and I pretend to actually believe this stuff.

I mean it was totally reasonable to assume that the Queen of England looked so young at her old age because she routinely age the flesh of babies

[Bucky]

41. Globetard!! I love this!!

And yes, Liz2 was unbelievably hot.

[geardaddy]

54. Yes, Globetard sounds like a great band name. n/t

[not fooled]

81. ____-tard has many possibilities

Gun-tard

Fetus/Repro-tard

Energy/Fossil fuel-tard

Red Don-tard

Religion-tard


In this day and age the list is endless...

[Celerity]

86. christofashtard for instance, but what really makes Rethugs snap is when you call them conservacucks

they go positively bonkers, especially the male ones

for RW females, conservawench seems to be the one that generators the most poutrage

you can also use Trump for those that also identify as MAGAts

Trumpcuck

Trumpwench

red raw rage usually ensues

[Celerity]

85. the gits also call us 'ballers'

[not fooled]

88. WTF?

Are the magaloons claiming to be anti-Earth?

They should feel free to use the astral plane to transport their own selves to other solar systems.

[dalton99a]

16. They forgot that the famous hermit Christopher Knight survived by stealing food from homeowners

[LeftinOH]

18. "Officials have not named the son because he is a minor." Ummm,

Policy question here: If someone is deceased -and relatives have been notified- does the fact that the deceased person was a minor matter anymore? They even blurred out the boy's face in the photo. I don't understand who is being protected here?...

[Bucky]

28. Interesting question

He might have a father they haven't found yet or who has requested identity be withheld, or maybe old school friends need to be let known in a less public manner, or there might be some other legal issues.

It's heartbreaking. Maybe the paper just didn't want to run the risk of complicating the tragedy.

[lostnfound]

32. A rule that is often good at doing the opposite of what it claims to do

I remember when the Trump administration was shipping, immigrant kids all over the country, and the media kept blocking the faces. Supposedly to protect the kids, but all it really did was prevent loved ones from tracking them down and probably helped cover up crimes that were being committed.

[nuxvomica]

34. There's a recent shooting case here where the sheriff won't release names

I found it very odd, and more than a little bit suspicious. Two people were injured and the shooter killed himself but the sheriff won't release any more information because the case is closed and he says he wants to spare the family. It sounds more like he doesn't want to spotlight a "law-abiding" gun owner's use if guns to attempt murder. Well the local newspaper did a little digging so we have a family name, so that ship has sailed.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

47. something recently happened at a politician's house. Sheriff kept it under wraps

journalists got hold of the video tapes... sheriff was talking "we'll keep this quiet..." to the politician.

[inthewind21]

57. Did it

matter with the dead shot up school kids? YES it still matters.

[mountain grammy]

20. This is very sad..

[Hortensis]

63. Very sad, especially because of the boy. The adults chose

to do this and, regardless of intelligence levels, must have thought they were aware of the dangers. Freedom must always include the freedom to fail. Just wish the social safety net had somehow prevented them from taking the boy, and in the process talked to them.

Btw, wonder how much time these people spent on social media having their off-balance notions "validated" by too many others with the same notions and no butterfly nets.

[ShazzieB]

89. I wonder about the social media, and I also wonder if they were Faux News devotees.

[Hortensis]

92. Likely before Fox's LW bias drove them to Newsmax and OAN?

Oh, well. They were acting on their beliefs, not just sitting around whining bitter resentments as so many do.

RIP.

[ShazzieB]

95. That's a good way to look at it, imo.

[ToxMarz]

21. Maybe a good idea when attempting to live "off grid"

with no survival skills outside the general population, go somewhere with milder winters.

[ShazzieB]

93. No kidding!

Last edited Wed Jul 26, 2023, 06:43 PM - Edit history (1)

It doesn't sound like they even researched the climate in the area they were heading into. Otherwise, how could they think they would be able to survive the winter in a tent?

It's hard to imagine the frame of mind someone would have to be in to think this was even almost a good idea. Paranoia and the panic it can engender can lead people to do things that are incomprehensible to the rest of us.

[SYFROYH]

22. Walden gone bad.

Even Thoreau knew to go home on the weekends to his mother's house for food and laundry.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

98. !

[Snooper9]

24. Well that takes a special kind of stupid

Shame the kid didn't wise up and say fuck-this and hitchhike out of there...

[IbogaProject]

26. Record snow

Record snow Hit early in what is one of the coldest parts of Colorado. They were likely trapped and once the easy food ran out they were struggling just to keep warm. And without a compass or a map they'd have no idea how or where to get out too.

[Victor_c3]

37. Even with a compass and a map, I bet you many people would struggle

There is a certain amount of skill needed to do basic land navigation with those two tools.

Like I’m sure you are, I’m astounded by how ignorant and unprepared some people are when they go out into the woods. I do a lot of hiking in the Adirondacks and each year the NY Park Rangers publish a newsletter outlining all of the rescues, major injuries, and fatalities of the year. Over and over again the theme behind nearly every incident is “lack of basic preparation”.

Tell people where you’re going, have a few emergency essentials, and don’t overestimate your abilities. A few basic things can save your life.

[gab13by13]

44. When I was young I used to hunt on my grandpa's land,

We had a big snowfall and I actually got lost because the snow made everything appear different.

[CanonRay]

39. This

[2live is 2fly]

56. This mom probably had her son scared absolutely shitless of sticking his thumb out there in the big,

bad, mean and cruel world. I wouldn't be surprised to hear there was a follow-up story she heard as a little girl about a band of bad- ppl (bad-ppl=non-christians) who'd drive around in their specially modified (macheti' mounted on passenger side-door) vehicle looking for hitch-hikers so-that when found could drive-by close-enough to have their door-mounted knife lob-off thumbs. Thumbs of course were added to a big jar which was kept under a pillow.

[llmart]

25. They were "rugged individualists"...

at least up to the point where they weren't.

There are a lot of people who have some delusion that they could survive living like that, but they're not very realistic about their skills. I only feel sorry for the teenaged son who got sucked into that mindset. To the adults? Darwin's tenet of survival of the fittest comes to mind.

[marble falls]

52. Rugged individualist is not the same as rugged survivalist. A winter escape in an early snow ...

... is monumental task, even for a rugged survivalist without some sort of high calorie food.

[AverageOldGuy]

29. Off-the-grid living

A few months ago, unable to sleep, I channel surfed around the 500-plus (mostly useless) offerings on DirecTV until I landed on a series about living off the grid, featuring bright, smiling, happy young couples who built "sustainable" homes off the grid -- it may have been one of those ridiculous HGTV series. The level of naivete and basic ignorance of such matters as water supply, sanitation, access, and the like was staggering. I wonder from time to time whatever happened to the people featured on the show.

[womanofthehills]

78. Building a sustainable home off grid & camping in a tent are two very different ways of life

Did they have a vehicle? They must have to get to where they were? Maybe their vehicle stopped running. Sounds like mental illness.

NM is a popular place for off grid living and people building their own alternative homes. You need money & lots of energy to build an alternative home - you can build with tires, straw, rammed earth but you need money for roofing, windows, solar or wind, etc.

Living in a tent is nothing like artistic people creating beautiful alternative homes.

[Bucky]

31. If all humans decided to live off-grid, we'd have much less of a population problem.

The global ecosystem won't support 8 billion people living off-grid. In 5000bce, there were approximately 18 million of us, including the slackers who were inventing religion, wars, and royalty in order to avoid farm work.

[NH Ethylene]

33. That's really sad.

Especially for the boy, who likely didn't have a choice in the matter.

[Johnny2X2X]

36. Chopping wood

People have no idea how much wood it takes to get through a Winter. It takes several cords of wood if you have a cabin. If they were living in tents, they would need to have a big fire burning 24 hours a day to survive. A cord of wood is 4x4x8. You'd be burning one of those a week if you're essentially living outdoors. It would take months of wood cutting and splitting to get close to the amount you need.

And after weather hits, your fire needs contstant tending to stay burning.

These idiots killed their own kids because they're afraid of the big bad world. Moronic and tragic.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

43. reality show, Frontier house, about surviving in the 1800s addressed the wood issue.

The expert said that a big hunk of their time should be spent chopping wood and piling it up for the winter.

https://www.pbs.org/show/frontier-house/

Frontier House, a six-part, hands-on history series, took three modern-day families back in time to live like 1880s homesteading pioneers in Montana. The families headed west in May 2001 and resided there until October, with just the tools of the period at their disposal. Throughout their historic adventure, the families' trials, triumphs, simple pleasures, and daily rigors were revealed.

[miyazaki]

72. Good show.

I believe all of them divorced, separated, re-married or whatever. A cord a week for tent campers though is extreme.

[leighbythesea2]

100. One of my favorites

Very enlightening. Remember everyone being hungry and losing weight.
Show was big strain on the relationships.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

101. I remember them being hungry and expert pointing out food in garden

going to seed.

[leighbythesea2]

113. Hahaha

I forgot about that part!
The family from CA went home to their 4k sq ft house and thought it was weird after living in one room. That was kinda how I had felt size houses got really big floor plans starting in the 90s. Yeah, why all that space.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

42. Nature is no joke.

The wilderness is unforgiving. Things can turn bad quickly.

[dpibel]

45. Where are the tenderhearted defenders?

I have a recollection that when, recently, a submersible imploded at the bottom of the sea, things were different.

Back then, any statement that some dead billionaires were stupid, or lacking in foresight, or short on common sense was met with outrage!!

The topic still comes up from time to time, with the gentle defenders of innocent billionaire adventurers clutching pearls over how the swinish members of DU defamed those poor people.

But here, we're all just down with calling these dead people stupid.

What am I missing?

What could the difference possibly be?

[AllyCat]

49. I called the billionaires stupid as well.

[sarisataka]

53. Some people like to ridicule

Deaths regardless of wealth. (they know in their heart the dead were not like "us" but were obviously "them&quot

Other find needless deaths tragic.

FWIW I recall more criticism, even perhaps celebration, of the deaths of those on the submersible than defense.

[Kaleva]

79. There were numerous posts calling those rich people idiots

Are you engaging in selective reading?

[dpibel]

84. So sorry if I was too subtle

What I am pointing out is that there were multiple horrified tut-tutting posts taking people to task for calling those innocent billionaires stupid.

I'm just wondering where those tender hearts are in this thread.

If it's wrong to call adventuring billionaires stupid for being stupid, surely it is just as wrong to call these people stupid.

I'm just wondering if there's something about these people that make them less worthy of defending.

[ShazzieB]

97. I commented up thread that I felt sorry for these women, and I do.

I'm just wondering if there's something about these people that make them less worthy of defending.

I honestly think it's the Just World fallacy, more than anything else. It's human nature, when something tragic happens to someone, to look for an explanation in the victim's actions. If we can point to something the victim did to put themselves in harm's way, we can reassure ourselves that it could never happen to us because we would never do something so stupid/dangerous/ill-advised.

In this particular situation, it's very easy to do that, because of obvious major mistakes that were made by these folks (insufficient preparation, poor planning, etc.). A lot of us are comfortable objectively labeling their behavior as "stupid," which makes victim-blaming very easy and tempting. Consciously or inconsciously, we humans want to believe that people bring bad things on themselves by their own actions (i.e., if something bad happens to someone they must have done something to "deserve" it). That is reassuring, because we can tell ourselves that nothing that bad will ever happen to us as long as we avoid doing what they did.

It's a slippery slope, though, and when taken too far, it can lead to blaming all victims for anything bad that happens to them, ever.

I feel sorriest for the kid, of course, but I really do feel sorry for all of them. I can't even imagine the level of paranoia that would drive someone to do what they did. Perhaps it's easy for some to wave it away as stupidity, but I have too much experience dealing with people in a delusional state to be able to do that. (To quote Arsenic and Old Lace, mental illness doesn't just run in my family, it gallops.) Anyone who is that paranoid is absolutely miserable, and there no way to "talk sense" into someone in that frame of mind, whether the paranoia is a symptom of psychosis or just the result of watching too much Faux News.

Yes, they showed very bad judgment, and that bad judgment tragically led not just to their own deatths but the death of a child. That is terrible, and it sucks. But they didn't do what they did just for funsies. At least one of them was terrified (of exactly what we don't know) and fleeing presumably imaginary threats that were all too real to her.

So yeah, I think this is absolutely tragic, and I don't think we should lose sight of that, at the same time that we can't help but see the trail of very unfortunate choices that led to this.

[dpibel]

104. That's a really thoughtful essay

And I believe I entirely agree with everything you've said (and said well).

It's both a pity and perfectly avoidable.

[Kaleva]

99. Can you provide links to the threads where billionaires were defended?

You can't call out fellow DUers by name but you can provide links to the threads where such posts were made.

You probably know these DUers by name and are waiting to see if they'll post here defending the 3 lost lives. Again, , you can't say names but you can give a number .

[dpibel]

105. You read the threads

In #79 of this thread, you assert that many people said mean things about the billionaires.

If you read those threads, you read the posts from the billionaire defense team.

Are you seriously saying I'm just making this up?

Go for it. Knock yourself out.

[Kaleva]

106. You made the claim so it's up to you to provide the evidence

Last edited Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:17 AM - Edit history (1)

You didn't try to refute what I said because you know it to be true and that I could easily support it.

DU is a place of high standards. Try to live up to that

Edit: note that I didn't say you were lying. I just asked you for links to the threads where you said people defended the billionaires

[dpibel]

110. What am I supposed to refute?

That you may be able to call people out without technically calling them out?

High standards, indeed.

[Kaleva]

112. Just provide the links

You already know where the threads are where people defended the billionaires so all you have to do is post the links to them

[Kid Berwyn]

102. I'm so old that I remember when people's first reaction was to feel sorry for the loss of life...

...on news of accident, tragedy, idiocy, etc.

Now it's: LOL dumbass Darwin Award winner hah hah too bad the kid waste of oxygen har har.

Hope it never happens to them.

[XanaDUer2]

107. Thank you

So true.

[Kid Berwyn]

109. You are most welcome! If I may add...

O brother man! fold to thy heart thy brother!
Where pity dwells, the peace of God is there.

-- Whittier, Worship

[AllyCat]

48. And a kid is dead because of his family's lunacy.

[iluvtennis]

50. ..

[JI7]

51. You have to be in a good place financially

for this to work based on the things I have read about. And even then people make some exceptions.

[geardaddy]

55. Lord of the Flies n/t

[Wingus Dingus]

59. Cannot believe the idiocy.

They must not have researched how Gunnison is one of the most bitter cold places in winter--not just in CO, but in the lower 48. In a tent! Even in an RV with full hookups, CO would be tough in winter in pretty much all of the state except maybe the Four Corners, but they get pretty cold too. Why didn't they just travel to AZ and stay on BLM land?

[GoCubsGo]

60. "..was fearful of a lot of things with the way she thought the world was going..."

This sounds like a couple of women who succumbed to paranoia instigated by the right-wing media, which is nothing but non-stop fear-mongering 24/7/365. It's the same shit Jason Aldean is pushing in his stupid video, and why you can't go into any comments section that involves Chicago in any way, without various assholes making shitty comments about allegedly "rampant" crime and being shot. All interspersed with ads for food rations, generators, and other survival gear. I feel sad for the son.

[mercuryblues]

64. LOL

Nice electric stove you have there, be a shame if something happened to it.


broken heart syndrome.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/broken-heart-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20354617

[GP6971]

66. Hello.

[mercuryblues]

69. You do know what word salad is a

euphemism for, don't you?

[lapucelle]

70. Hungry?

[marble falls]

74. Sure you're in the right place? I prefer gas and hate electric, but I know gas is not good for us ..

... for cooking.

[Torchlight]

75. Sounds serious

Good luck with the overlord stuff and all.

[marble falls]

96. Mebe next time. Them overlords is everywhar!

[AntivaxHunters]

67. Wow I know exactly where this is

Been there many many times....
Absolutely stunningly beautiful part of my state.

[yardwork]

76. What a shame they took that child with them.

If people want to do ignorant, stupid things I wish they would leave children out of it.

[onethatcares]

82. of all things, there's a magazine

at the check out stand of my grocer with the title, "Off Grid Living".

It's a shame they had to die from lack of experience and knowledge.

[Kaleva]

83. Even 1800's mountain men couldn't survive completely off grid

Only a few could last more then a few years in the wilderness

[Retrograde]

87. Many trappers and traders married Native women

which gave them a support network. Very few lived entirely on their own

[leftstreet]

91. They don't have CPS in Colorado?

The kid was a minor.

A year later they can't wait to tell everyone how worried they were and just gosh didn't know what to do.

uh-huh

[misanthrope]

94. Will people make a shrine out of their dying spot

like they did with Chris McAndless? Get a book and a movie made about them?

If you actually read "Into the Wild," then you came across plenty of stories of others who tried this and failed. The mistakes they made seemed simple in postmortem analysis, but they were all committed due to arrogance about their own ignorance.

[kentuck]

108. Who would be so stupid as to think they could survive a Colorado winter in a tent?

With no food or heat?

Stupid has its price.