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Political psychologists define those that seek authoritarianism
Last edited Mon Jul 31, 2023, 07:02 AM - Edit history (1)
Below is a quote I read this awhile back and it defines Maga.
They reject complexity or nuance including diversity and engage in all or nothing thinking. Those with an authoritarian personality prefer sameness and uniformity and have cognitive limitations Karen Stenner refers to them as simple minded-avoiders of complexity.
I just watched a clip from trump rally yesterday where the reporter interviews the Trump supporter and agrees with him that Biden and all Democrats need to be executed.
Watching that I’m reminded of reading Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Dietrich warned the world of the dangers of fascism the Nazis Hitler as early as 1933 how can common people Germans go along with and agree with the final solution.
I watched video of grown adults dancing in preparation for their orange messiah arrival at Trump rally. I remember watching clips of Hitler speaking to the masses at his rallies sieg heil.
What frightens me is will special counsel be enough or Fani Willis be able to save our democracy in prosecution of trump and his sycophant congress pardon seekers his cult of Mike Flynn traitors today we’re surrounded by cult members.
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617Blue
(2,472 posts)Is the US up to it?
moonscape
(5,724 posts)
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)We the People did develop the systems protecting our democracy, but elections are by far our most powerful system, for good and bad.
As for wondering if "we'll all be allowed to vote," the answer is still effectively yes, those who INSIST on voting will re-register if needed, organize transportation, leave work, religiously follow mail-in procedures designed to trip the unwary up, stand in line all day and night, etc.
The question, as always, is how many will vote and for what. In 2016 80M people didn't bother to vote. In 2020, it was 60 M. And of course, many are always fooled into voting against their own beliefs.
In 2024, we'll see. But at this point, I'm a lot more happy and confident in the pro-democracy light than I would be on the fascistic dark side with people who idolize and obey a depraved whackjob without a bottom to hit.
Kick and kick!
Excellent and thank you!
ColinC
(11,098 posts)But it is in our hands
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)Criminals in government need to be locked up and tried for their crimes. Just like I would be.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)Hundreds of millions of Americans would be shocked at the suggestion that all Democrats should be executed, but their thinking is just close enough to authoritarianism, they readily agree with Republican politicians and will always vote for them.
All the Republicans have to do is trot out the old "people should work hard and support themselves" speeches and many voters just agree, don't bother to learn what Republicans are really doing, and wander off to the polls to vote Republican, just because they think Republicans are sensible.
617Blue
(2,472 posts)other than for weddings and funerals. Yet a good chunk of them go into the voting booth and support the Theocracy party.
Go figure, I sure can't.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)They would be shocked at the suggestion that they're voting for theocracy. In fact, they think that it's Democrats who are trying to limit "freedom." They're willfully ignorant. They listen to Fox News for a few minutes and say "That sounds right to me" and then go play golf and don't bother to learn anything else.
It makes me mad, and I don't know what to do about it.
617Blue
(2,472 posts)Now spouting shit and blaming his problems on woke and hiding behind his "libertarianism."
Haven't spoken to him in months. Don't care to. Can't abide that nonsense and won't get dragged into a "debate".
Celerity
(54,410 posts)Left-libertarianism
This article is about the type of libertarianism stressing both individual freedom and social equality. For the socialist anti-authoritarian, anti-statist and libertarian philosophy, see Libertarian socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
Left-libertarianism, also known as left-wing libertarianism, or social libertarianism, is a political philosophy and type of libertarianism that stresses both individual freedom and social equality. Left-libertarianism represents several related yet distinct approaches to political and social theory. Its classical usage refers to anti-authoritarian varieties of left-wing politics such as anarchism, especially social anarchism, communalism, and libertarian Marxism, collectively termed libertarian socialism. A portion of the left wing of the green movement, including adherents of Murray Bookchin's social ecology, are also generally considered left-libertarian. In the United States, left-libertarianism represents the left wing of the libertarian movement, including the political positions associated with academic philosophers Hillel Steiner, Philippe Van Parijs, and Peter Vallentyne that combine self-ownership with an egalitarian approach to natural resources. This is done to distinguish libertarian views on the nature of property and capital, usually along left–right or socialist–capitalist lines.
Although libertarianism in the United States has become associated with classical liberalism and minarchism, with right-libertarianism being more known than left-libertarianism, political usage of the term until then was associated exclusively with anti-capitalism, libertarian socialism, and social anarchism; in most parts of the world, such an association still predominates. Left-libertarians are skeptical of, or fully against, private ownership of natural resources, arguing in contrast to right-libertarians that neither claiming nor mixing one's labor with natural resources is enough to generate full private property rights, and maintain that natural resources should be held in an egalitarian manner, either unowned or owned collectively. Those left-libertarians who are more lenient towards private property support different property norms and theories, such as usufruct or under the condition that recompense is offered to the local or even global community, such as the Steiner–Vallentyne school. Other currents of thought identified with left-libertarianism include adherents of Henry George's land tax ideas and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon's mutualism, and more recent forms of left-wing market anarchism (or market-oriented left-libertarianism), including Samuel Konkin III's agorism.
Definition
Some political scientists and writers classify the forms of libertarianism into two or more groups, such as left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism, to distinguish libertarian views on the nature of property and capital. In the United States, proponents of free-market anti-capitalism consciously label themselves as left-libertarians and part of the libertarian left. As a term, left-libertarianism has been used to refer to various political economic philosophies emphasizing individual liberty. With the modern development of right-libertarian co-opting the term libertarian in the mid-20th century to advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights such as land, infrastructure, and natural resources, left-libertarianism has been used more often to differentiate between the two forms, especially concerning property rights. According to Jennifer Carlson, right-libertarianism is the dominant form of libertarianism in the United States, while left-libertarianism "has become a more predominant aspect of politics in western European democracies over the past three decades." Left-libertarianism also includes "the decentralist who wishes to limit and devolve State power, to the syndicalist who wants to abolish it altogether. It can even encompass the Fabians and the social democrats who wish to socialize the economy but who still see a limited role for the State."
In its oldest sense, it is a synonym either for anarchism in general or social anarchism in particular. Later it became a term for the left or Konkinite wing of the free-market libertarian movement, and has since come to cover a range of pro-market but anti-capitalist positions, mostly individualist anarchist, including agorism and mutualism, often with an implication of sympathies (such as for radical feminism or the labor movement) not usually shared by anarcho-capitalists. In a third sense it has recently come to be applied to a position combining individual self-ownership with an egalitarian approach to natural resources; most proponents of this position are not anarchists.
Libertarianism is often thought of as 'right-wing' doctrine. This, however, is mistaken for at least two reasons. First, on social—rather than economic—issues, libertarianism tends to be 'left-wing'. It opposes laws that restrict consensual and private sexual relationships between adults (e.g., gay sex, non-marital sex, and deviant sex), laws that restrict drug use, laws that impose religious views or practices on individuals, and compulsory military service. Second, in addition to the better-known version of libertarianism—right-libertarianism—there is also a version known as 'left-libertarianism'. Both endorse full self-ownership, but they differ with respect to the powers agents have to appropriate unappropriated natural resources (land, air, water, etc.).
snip
wnylib
(26,019 posts)I know that's not possible with hard core Trump supporters, but among the people that you describe, there is a chance to wake them up. It takes a lot of work. Itcl requires being armed with facts. It means being able to talk to people calmly, even when they stubbornly cling to belief in their party and buy into a couple anti Democratic rants.
Hard to do, but very important work in saving democracy.
McKim
(2,426 posts)I read somewhere that you don’t change people’s minds in one conversation. It takes a slow steady drip of new information and one day, they change.
wnylib
(26,019 posts)open them up to change as much as asking questions that make them think. Before they will listen to new information and views, they need to start doubting or wondering about the ones they hold. Find some common areas of life that you can share instead of taking an adversarial approach. Then ask thought provoking (but not snarky) questions. Being snarky can be useful with some people, as humor, but used sparingly and carefully.
I admit that that is very difficult for me to do because I am committed to a different perspective from them. But starting out with a direct, confrontational approach only closes them off with defensiveness.
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)The burden is on us. Voting is the ultimate tool, but it is also imperative we speak out.
It is discouraging to be chided for criticizing the initial stalled/slow pace of DOJ's investigation into Jan 6 among other crimes.
When so much of those crimes happened in plain site and broadcast on live tv, no action taken with regards to the mob bosses an co-conspirators, until after the House was well into their work a Special Prosecutor had finally been appointed ,
The process isn't over... not even close to being finally over, but justice seems to be marching along as they say.
In the meantime, he's free to whip up his "storm troopers" and cult supporters right up to election day, perhaps beyond again.
It's going to be exceedingly hard on our country to get through this. There are corrupt governors, corrupt judges to also deal with as well as corrupt congress lizards in both houses that's where we come in, right?
But now, what we "complainers" were predicting is unfolding before us. Didn't take a genius to see this coming, but it's going to take more than one to reverse engineer this shit show if it's at all possible.
MyMission
(2,010 posts)Within the government and general population, those inclined towards authoritarianism will do anything. Calls to violence and retribution, and destructive political agendas are frightening to me. As more indictments come out, for tfg and assorted cronies, I suspect the most fringe elements will call for and commit acts of terror and retribution. But lots of others will crawl back under their rock.
I console myself that they are the minority, and loosing support, even while they seem to thrive in certain places. And their efforts will ultimately fail. Younger voters will turn out in droves, not to mention the rest of us. Your 2 youngest are now voting age. Yay!
There are lots of frightening and depressing things about our current political climate, cult 45, freedumb caucus, and GOPQ "agenda". There are also a lot of reasons to keep fighting the good fight! And laugh when you can, it's good for the soul.
Another thing I've thought about quite a bit is how to contain the most dangerous of the insurgents and insurrectionists. They do exist, and if any law enforcement tries to arrest them or take their weapons there will be a number of dangerous confrontations. As tfg and GOPQ thugs call for violence, law enforcement at all levels must be prepared to act. Some are lone wolves, others are part of militia or white nationalist groups. While they're in the minority they can still do a lot of damage. Now if I were an authoritarian rethug, I'd be advocating building more prisons to contain these deplorables, and calling for them to be hunted and arrested! But that's not the answer, and a lot of these dangerous types are already being monitored, especially as they broadcast their warped and evil intentions.
Some serious thoughts on a Sunday morning.
flying_wahini
(8,275 posts)I know I have been telling anyone who will listen that they probably thought Jewish housewives (after Hitler got elected) that they were just being hysterical.
I know we keep saying this but if Trump doesn’t go to jail they will consider it “legal” to pull all this shit over and over agin and again.
He MUST be punished appropriately AND his enablers like Bannon, Stone and Rudy Colludy.
The Wizard
(13,735 posts)
Joinfortmill
(21,169 posts)
Fiendish Thingy
(23,240 posts)And neither is it the purpose of the GA prosecution or any other.
If Trump is convicted and incarcerated, there will still be fascist forces trying to take control in the US.
While the Rule of Law is an important tool in combatting fascism, it’s not the only one.
Defeating fascism at the ballot box, and then governing fearlessly, unhesitatingly passing progressive laws that benefit everyone are the keys to sustaining a healthy democracy, as is being done right now in MI, NM and elsewhere. This means having the courage to kill the filibuster.
Performative centrism and pragmatic incrementalism are just slow motion forms of democratic suicide.
BlueIn_W_Pa
(842 posts)Here in W PA in the last election, in deep red country (outside of Pitt, that is), you could see that although there was the usual straight-ticket ballots you'd normally see, it didn't happen for Mini-me trump Doug Mastriano. Nearly a third of republican voters either didn't vote for him at all, or voted for Shapiro (D). Now this is in aggregate, of course, but there was a huge distaste for that psychopath even among (Rs) that was very obvious.
Now if the republicans are only 35% of the electorate, and one third of them don't want this trump-ite religion and their Manson-like followers? Hell, many of the people I speak to would vote (D) quietly if it weren't for what they see as a culture war. Economically, environmentally, women's rights, etc agreed. Otherwise, politically, there's a 3rd rail that blows things up in their minds.
KS Toronado
(23,727 posts)"all Democrats need to be executed ", that and "what this Country needs is another Civil War." When tfg is
finally backed into that corner he feels no escape from, I expect him to unleash his rabid followers on this
Country to stay out of prison.
Some Judge might see this coming and give him house arrest for the rest of his life to ensure no bloodshed.
House arrest in one of his slums works for me, not Mar-A- Lardo. 
OMGWTF
(5,131 posts)
CrispyQ
(40,970 posts)roamer65
(37,956 posts)He should be deported to RuZZia, along with Jill Stein and all the others that sat at that table with Putler.
markodochartaigh
(5,545 posts)"I just watched a clip from trump rally yesterday where the reporter interviews the Trump supporter and agrees with him that Biden and all Democrats need to be executed."
spike jones
(2,020 posts)It must be violently destroyed.
It is very important that we keep it from ever gaining power.
https://thebattleground.eu/2020/09/11/40-ways-to-fight-fascists/
Martin68
(27,749 posts)What is hard for me to wrap my head around is the even some intelligent people display these traits.
ancianita
(43,307 posts)High level indictments, along with over 1,000 convictions and sentencings, have been enough to cool down the militant arm of the 23%. Special counsel and Fani will be okay. No militias got the upper hand in the red state of Florida during the FBI's search of MAL, or in Miami while the arraignment went down, remember? Nothing of consequence happened in Manhattan when Bragg indicted, either. Remember?
Try not to let your fears and others' agonies over justice distort the facts of what's happening.
WE -- vets and everyone else -- are not surrounded. THEY are surrounded by us and our rule of law teams.
The Wizard
(13,735 posts)the rest of the civilized world hears seig heil, seig heil, seig heil
no_hypocrisy
(54,908 posts)She secretly took catechism lessons from a young priest. She secretly attended Mass with her boyfriend, whom she hoped would be her fiance in the future.
When our parents found out, they exploded. Why, WHY did she want to be Catholic?
Instead of being honest and saying she wanted to get married and was taking away an obstacle, she was semi-honest and gave this response: The Church made all your decisions for you. No chance of mistakes. An easier life when you didn't have to make your own decisions.
My sister was not and still is not a critical thinker. She even failed Logic in college. But she was astute enough to understand her shortcomings. But instead of trying to improve her lot, she chose to be a disciple for an institution known for its authoritarianism. (And she was accustomed to that mentality as our father was an authoritarian.)
My point: social psychology explains why so many people, en masse, follow "leaders" who are angry and belligerent, who promise to fight on their behalf while actually repressing them -- and getting them to repress non-disciples. It's about control. Some people want to be controlled.
OldBaldy1701E
(11,143 posts)There is a significant number of the population that just do not want to make any waves in any way and will just follow the crowd rather than be singled out. As someone who suffers from pretty major social anxiety at times I understand this mentality but it is also not helpful when we are trying to stop those who prefer to rule rather than lead. I will say this one more time: until that orange gibbon and his cronies are locked up, we cannot expect anyone to obey the law as well as remember that we are in this together. Why would they when it is obvious that there are two levels of society, and those that ignore the law are not being punished as they should be? If you wish to be seen as a country of equality, then practice it. Otherwise, it is all just more propaganda.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)To them, tRump is the GOAT: Greatest of All Time, and Biden is evil personified.
Further, they don't introspect and never blame themselves or their side. If they lose a court case, it is never because their side didn't have the proof or they had the wrong view of the laws. It is always that the judge was corrupt and the jury was biased from before they began.
It is especially all about who they hate and who tRump says he hates.
Jean Genie
(544 posts)My late step-father once said that it's important to go to church so they can tell you how to think. Same goes for MAGA rallies, I do believe. And that's maybe why there's all this condemnation of libraries and schools these days. God forbid we should actually think, critically evaluate a situation, learn from past experiences, be open-minded. God forbid - how horrible! Much better to be safe, stupid, and part of the "me too" crowd!
peggysue2
(12,533 posts)The Justice Department can (and I believe will) take many of these fascist wannabes out of circulation. Still, the MAGA movement is bigger than Trump and his lackeys. The American public needs to use its political clout and voice/vote to stomp out the MAGA fire.
The 2024 election, up and down the ballot, will be an inflection point.
NO to MAGA. NO to fascism. NO to authoritarianism.
We, the American public, need to send a resounding message to our own homegrown numbnuts and to the world at large.
Do it then or live to regret it, always.
As to the the psychological aspects of MAGA's followers? The higher ups are just glomming onto the movement for power, money and influence. They left their ethics and morality at the door long ago. For the ordinary MAGA supporter, Trump is a God figure, a cult leader addressing every grievance they've ever had and grievances they hadn't even thought of on their own. To dismiss Trump or believe he's nothing but a grifting, malignant narcissist is to lose faith in themselves. Another DUer put up a Tik Tok video. The woman, a Republican, a former Trump supporter explained the phenom clearly. MAGA supporters have invested everything into Trump--their money, their identity, their very souls.
They can't turn away. They won't.
Which means we have to use our numbers, our money, our own identities and souls to quash them at the polls.
The Justice Department has its own job. We have ours.