Chris Hayes with the worst take of the night

[bigtree]

...just said this is actually 'an indictment of Merrick Garland.'

He's really good at snatching defeat from victory.

Anyone spending a minute tonight pointing fingers at the AG who, by himself, appointed the man who accelerated and broadened the investigation into the Trump WH is pushing a counterproductive agenda.

It makes sense, though, for these armchair prosecutors to get their last licks in before details of the investigation that led to this Trump indictment are revealed as a deliberative one which obviously and provably began with Merrick Garland.

[Ocelot II]

1. He can be that way sometimes. O'Donnell kind of shot him down, gently.

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. Yeah, right after his excellent comment about the significance of the moment

Lawrence patted him on the head and gently smacked him down.

[Comfortably_Numb]

3. Like, seriously? Like, he really said that? Like, what was he thinking? Like, wow!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

4. I muted Hayes

Hayes should have been fired due to the Tara Reade matter

[rogue emissary]

55. +1

[JohnSJ]

5. In my opinion, Hayes is one of the weakest hosts on MSNBC.

[Ocelot II]

8. He gets kind of hyper and shouty.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

32. Hayes is not very bright

[Paladin]

50. He's no Rachel Maddow.

But he's miles ahead of Ari Melber.

Just my opinion...

[underpants]

6. I've never thought much of him as a host

He’s okay as a commentator

[brush]

7. No place for that now on this historic day.

Garland was admittedly slow on this but he put SC Smith on the job and he made up for lost time splendidly.

[C_U_L8R]

9. Bring on Katyal and Weissmann

Those two guys make us all smarter.

[Spazito]

10. Lawrence O'Donnell came right back with a perfect rebuttal...

pointing out that having the congressional investigation go first introduced the public to much of what is contained in the indictment instead of the information, facts in the indictment being the first time the public knew of them makes the indictment and what's in it more believable and he gave the credit to Garland for choosing to wait until the Congressional Investigation made their report.

It was quite humorous to see Hayes nodding in agreement with O'Donnell after trying to blame Garland.

[elleng]

15. Of course he did.

I'll be with Lawrence (and The West Wing) later.

[Spazito]

19. The West Wing is my all-time favorite television show....

it even beat out MASH which, until then, was my long-time number one.

[elleng]

21. I do like MASH, but have a boxed set of The West Wing so go to it OFTEN!

and so appreciate segments Lawrence wrote.

[Silent3]

16. Not completely perfect

If the DoJ had been fully up to speed while the Congressional investigation was going on, they could have brought indictments shortly after the Congressional investigation concluded.

It very much seems like, other than going after the street trash, the DoJ barely even got started investigating Trump and his cronies until the Congressional investigation concluded.

[Spazito]

18. Timing is everything...

the appointment of Smith needed to happen after the congressional investigation had been completed and a report compiled but that didn't mean investigations by the DoJ were not ongoing. The lack of leaks by the DoJ both before and after the appointment of Smith has been amazing and that might be why we do not know whether there were investigations or not, imo.

[Silent3]

20. The indictments we've seen today, as no one on the panel disagreed with...

...had very little in them that wasn't known at the time of the Congressional investigation.

There were leaks from the DoJ after the CI concluded. That's when we finally started to get the stuff that the DoJ can't keep quiet, even if it wants to, like when people are questioned and free to say they've been questioned.

I don't buy that the DoJ was working hard, but in a super-quiet way, both because of a lack of those unavoidable leaks and that there's nothing in the newly released indictments, considering how long they took to be issued, that indicates a whole extra year of quiet work went into creating these indictments.

[Spazito]

23. We are in disagreement which is fine...

different perspectives make for interesting reading.

[elleng]

27. DoJ always works hard, and in a quiet way.

[Silent3]

33. Your comment does not counter what I've written

Plus, as we’ve seen, there are limits to how quiet they can keep things that clue us in on activities within the DoJ.

[lapucelle]

51. The Florida grand jury was kept tightly wrapped, as was the superceding indictment.

And Trump was the 1,097th person charged for the events of January 6.

The work of the DOJ in systematically building cogent, substantial, evidence-driven cases to the degree that will hold criminals accountable for an event of the breadth and scope of the January 6 insurrection is well beyond any expertise most of us hold.

[lapucelle]

47. Pence's testimony and his contemporaneous documentation are new. N/T

[Silent3]

48. I don't disagree. The one power the DoJ has is subpoenas with more heft

Nevertheless, the DoJ could have used their powers sooner rather than later, and they didn't, it would seem, (this is not just my own personal opinion) until what the Congressional 1/6 committee was revealing essentially gave them a kick in the ass to work more boldly and diligently up the chain of command instead of mainly going after the street rabble.

[elleng]

22. Right. Thanks.

[sheshe2]

38. Voice of reason.

Thank you, Spazito.

[Spazito]

53. Thanks! Lawrence's point made eminent sense to me...

in every way. I hadn't really thought of the timing this way until he pointed it out and how important it was in the long run.

[Cha]

26. Mahalo for that, Spazito.. I didn't see

it and it's good to know that LO'D came along with the FACTS of the CASE.

[Spazito]

28. He spelled it out so well, Cha...

he had everyone's head nodding in agreement with his take on Garland's decisions.

[Cha]

29. Thank you! I hope AG Garland gets to

see that for some well Deserved Props for Doing his Job!

[Spazito]

31. Me too, he is a good man doing a tough job with....

honesty, integrity and impartiality.

[Hortensis]

49. Agree. And I was seeing that viewpoint expressed

by others today. Likely all MSNBC, but.

Imagine America yesterday not reading the DoJ's excellent 45-page double-spaced written report -- without first having seen (some parts many times) the house Democrats' superb report to the nation complete with video of the insurrection and depositions by Republicans who were with tRump through all this.

[brush]

11. Alec Wagner was weak too with her contant grins when saying she doubts...

anything will ever get to trial before the election. Lawrence O'Donnell had to put her straignt by explaining that trump's name is on the first page of the indictment, with co-conspirators names coming later, so that there would by no six other attorney teas to deal with,. The whole thing is gear for speed against trump.

She should look at videos of his panel. No one else has a constant smile on their face as they discuss his historic AND SERIOUS event.

[LiberalFighter]

14. Her smile irks me. Not natural.

[Cha]

30. TY for that, brush..

one thing.. it's Lawrence O'Donnell as you probably know.

I don't have a TV so I get my news on all of this from DU.

[brush]

34. Oh, thanks. I will edit. i've done that before.

[elleng]

12. Thanks. This been bothering me.

[malaise]

13. Lots of them have argued that Garland was too slow

Not one was around for Watergate

[Celerity]

36. Watergate Prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks Says Special Counsel for Trump 'Waste of Time' (November 2022)

Not one was around for Watergate

https://www.newsweek.com/watergate-prosecutor-says-special-counsel-trump-waste-time-1760758

snip

Garland's announcement was not met with widespread agreement or enthusiasm.

"I think it's a waste of time and money, insults the prosecutors at DOJ and gains nothing," tweeted Jill Wine-Banks, a former Watergate and federal prosecutor. "No Trump supporter will see anyone as independent or fair to Trump."

Filmmaker Rob Reiner said the American people don't need a special counsel "to determine that Donald Trump has committed a mountain of federal crimes."

"Merrick Garland: Stop trying to avoid looking political and INDICT!" Reiner tweeted.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

also:

Richard Ben-Veniste is an American lawyer. He first rose to prominence as a special prosecutor during the Watergate scandal.

Merrick Garland doesn’t have forever

By Richard Ben-Veniste
July 20, 2022

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/20/garland-trump-investigation-jan-6-timing/

https://archive.li/kwRw6

Let’s take Attorney General Merrick Garland at his word that he is vigorously investigating Donald Trump and the apparent conspiracy that led to the violent coup attempt at the U.S. Capitol 18 months ago. My guess is that Garland should be able to make the decision on whether there is enough evidence to indict the former president for the crime of conspiracy to defraud the United States and/or related felonies in six months’ time. That decision should be based solely on whether the evidence is sufficient to convince a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, of Trump’s guilt — not on political considerations.

He will have to be about his work. The Jan. 6 select committee will hold what might be its last public hearing on Thursday evening. The committee, led by its steadfast chair, Rep. Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.), and its implacable vice chair, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.), has demonstrated a unity of purpose and willingness to put the nation’s interests above personal attention and reward, and produced a factual record that lays the foundational predicate for charging those responsible for organizing the assault on the Capitol. Understandably, some have called on Garland to produce immediate indictments and prosecutions of individuals. I believe a more patient approach will better serve the interests of justice.

There is some analogy in the timetable to the work of the Senate Watergate Committee some five decades ago. That committee’s investigation provided an evidentiary foundation upon which the Watergate Special Prosecutor’s Office built a series of successful prosecutions of individuals who held the highest positions of power in the Nixon administration. The testimony of Nixon White House counsel John Dean and the revelation of the secret White House taping system by Alexander Butterfield were critical to our ultimate success.

The toolbox of federal prosecutors is better equipped to ferret out testimony and documents from reluctant witnesses than the investigative powers of congressional committees. The special prosecutor successfully subpoenaed the Nixon tapes, while Congress failed to obtain them. Hostile and dissembling witnesses testified against their superiors under relentless pressure from the prosecutors. And it was the special prosecutor who presented evidence of Richard M. Nixon’s complicity in obstructing the Watergate investigation that convinced the grand jury to vote that he be named as an unindicted co-conspirator. But employing the prosecutor’s tradecraft takes time. Reluctant witnesses have to be confronted with evidence; culpable parties may be granted immunity to induce cooperation against higher-ups. Challenges to grand jury subpoenas must be litigated in the courts.

snip

[malaise]

37. Watergate took more than three years

https://www.history.com/news/watergate-scandal-timeline-nixon

[Celerity]

39. What is the point? You said no one involved in Watergate commented that Garland was taking too

long.

I gave you two examples of Watergate-involved people who did go there, to some level.

[malaise]

40. I was really speaking to the media folks not being around for Watergate

but it is true that Jill Wine Banks and a few others are regulars on the media

[Celerity]

44. Laurence Tribe echoed the Chris Hayes concerns on the next MSNBC show (Lawrence O'Donnell)

For his troubles, he is being tossed under the bus by some here.

I need a scorecard to keep track of who is good and acceptable and who is now an evil heretic, in terms of some opinions on DU.

Prof. Tribe on Trump’s ‘monumental’ third indictment

[malaise]

45. I watch Chris regularly

I think he has come a long way particularly since he stopped giving Fox crap unnecessary airplay.

[sheshe2]

42. Thank you, malaise.

This is far more complicated and sinister than Watergate ever was. There are hundreds more players including those jailed and many still being sought for J6. Fact is they are going down one by one as they work up the ladder.

[Cha]

54. Oh yeah & SMH @ that Rob Reiner tweet..

love him but No one is perfect.

We Did Need SC Jack Smith & AG Garland knew that THAT.

So many people NOT Doing the Work that AG Garland did were out there playing AG.

So chris hayes.. Not Thanking AG Garland Along with Jack Smith bc so invested in dragging on AG Merrick Garland.

And, I don't watch chris hayes ever.. on video.. he showed himself when he gave Tara Reid a Platform for her Lies against Joe Biden.

And, When called on it he insulted those who objected to his ONE SIDED SHOW.

[sheshe2]

57. I can't stand Hayes, he is such a worm.

Happy arraignment day, Cha!

TFG is in the courtroom and ten feet away sits Jack Smith.

Boom.

[Cha]

58. Agree on hayes.. But the Good News

is as you say.. Happy Arraignment Day, she!

We've come So Far since J6 & the Super Committee Put together by Nancy Pelosi.

AG Garland & Jack Smith!!

[sheshe2]

59. First hearing date set for Aug.28!

Garland and Smith are awesome.

Someone here suggested that Pelosi and Hillary should sit behind him in the courtroom as the trial begins!

[Cha]

60. Oh Wow.. That Would BE Priceless!! Hillary & Nancy

Front Row Seats to History.. So Well Deserved! 💙💙💙

Yeah, August 28th.. not too far away!

[sheshe2]

61. I added pictures of Nancy and Hillary to that thread...

One of Nancy ripping tfg speech and hill at the Bengazi hearings laughing.

[Cha]

62. Excellent.. can I have a link Please!💙 History!

[sheshe2]

63. I will go see where I posted it.

I haven't been on the computer most of the day since my eyes were dilated at my exam this morning. I don't believe they let you drive like that. It was full sun! Getting better now and will go look.

[Cha]

64. Mahalo, she.. no worries!

I hate having my eyes dilated.. I couldn't see anything for hours.

[sheshe2]

65. Here ya go..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218141661#post2

It is a very short thread, check Beachnutts OP
My eyes were dilated at 9AM...I was trying at 3PM to catch the news and check into DU. I still needed my sunglasses on.

[Cha]

66. Thank You!!!

What a day to get your eyes, dilated.. but who knew!

[sheshe2]

67. I made the appointment a year ago...just look at us now!

[Cha]

68. Really!

Nancy Pelosi, AG Garland, Jack Smith & everyone who helped make this Happen.. Including all the gops who Turned on the Traitor.. some to save their own skin.. some bc it was the right thing to do.

ETA~ And, the J6C!!

[UTUSN]

17. When his show first started, I gave him a fair hearing and never looked again.

Last edited Tue Aug 1, 2023, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I thought he just said stuff we wanted to hear, but didn't think he would lash back this way.

[Cha]

24. What a GD Stupid thing to say.. get a

a fucking clue, Hayes. Turns out that's an "indictment" on you.

[Hekate]

25. Weeellll, AG Garland has taken some harsh abuse from DUers, some of whom remain unforgiving

…for what they call “slow walking” even tonight. I admit I have not been blameless, being sometimes patient and aometimes a lot less so, but at least I like most of us here don’t have to go on tv.

[boston bean]

43. He took no time in assigning a sp for Biden

Took a long time for him to appoint one for trump. And said he had to cause trump announced his running for presidency. It was now a conflict for him.

[Cha]

35. Kick

[malaise]

46. Garlamd amd Smith are getting it right

and that is all that matters to me

[Cha]

52. Mahalo for that Malaise.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

56. Hayes is being stupid yet again today