General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTom Nichols' brilliant, stunning essay in The Atlantic . . .
If you haven't yet read it, by all means read Tom Nichols' stunning essay in The Atlantic, titled "This is the case.". Truly a must-read! From the essay:
The indictment handed down today challenges every American to put a shoulder to the wheel and defend our republic in every peaceful, legal, and civilized way they can. According to the charges, not only did Trump try to overturn the election; he presided over a clutch of co-conspirators who intended to put down any further challenges to Trumps continued rule by force. . . .
[. . . .]
This is why we can no longer merely roll our eyes when an annoying uncle rhapsodizes about stolen elections. We should not gently ask our parents if perhaps we might change the channel from Fox during dinner. We are not obligated to gingerly change the subject when an old friend goes on about Demonrats or the dire national-security implications around Hunter Bidens genitalia. Enough of all this; we can love our friends and our family and our neighbors without accepting their terms of debate. To support Trump is to support sedition and violence, and we must be willing to speak this truth not only to power but to our fellow citizens.
Trump and his media enablers, of course, will fume that any criticism of choices made by millions of voters is uncivil and condescendingeven as they paint other American citizens as traitors who support pedophiles and perverts. Trump has made such accusations, and the implied threat of violence behind them, part of the everyday American political environment. This brutish bullying is aimed at stopping the rest of us from speaking our mind. But after today, every American citizen who cares about the Constitution should affirm, without hesitation, that any form of association with Trump is reprehensible, that each of us will draw moral conclusions about anyone who continues to support him, and that these conclusions will guide both our political and our personal choices.
usonian
(25,315 posts)Joinfortmill
(21,162 posts)erronis
(23,875 posts)has disappeared.
mamacita75
(173 posts)I had to let lapse because I got behind as well. It is a really good magazine but with other ones I have I could not keep up. Contributing authors write great, long articles. I had nearly a year stacked up because I got backed up too!
erronis
(23,875 posts)NOT!
NJCher
(43,164 posts)to keep up with The New Yorker, which I totally love. Then I see what The Atlantic has to offer and I want that, too.
calimary
(90,017 posts)highplainsdem
(62,137 posts)asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)they so choosed..
For me, I no longer consider the media my choice..drivel..all day long..the threat is real and they need to step up..oh, they will throw us a bone every now and then..like donning a mask every so often..put it on, take it off..
I told hubby I was ready to pack my sneakers and hit the road..from AZ to Washington DC..walking and we are walking..Let me hear the first salvo from anyone..and I am with you.."fired up, ready to go"...what do we have to lose? EVERYTHING!!!
Shoulder to the wheel.. excellent!!!
For now, GOTV..
PortTack
(35,820 posts)Much beyond that.
underpants
(196,494 posts)SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)OMGWTF
(5,131 posts)because Im not a MAGAt. Its okay because I prefer my friends who arent fascist.
crim son
(27,552 posts)I'm sorry to hear it but sometimes you must choose between right and wrong.
Recycle_Guru
(2,973 posts)or Benedict Arnold when it is uttered. We should not countenance any sympathetic views of Trump and this treasonous conspiracy.
cab67
(3,749 posts)like calling someone a quisling.
Recycle_Guru
(2,973 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(25,212 posts)Martin68
(27,749 posts)ECL213
(445 posts)They only care about owning the libs. Trump could wipe his ass with the Constitution in the middle of Fifth Avenue, and he wouldn't lose one vote.
erronis
(23,875 posts)Alito, Thomas especially are using the power vested in them by the Constitution to destroy democracy.
ECL213
(445 posts)because the Dems have 60 Senators or someone expands the Court, they can continue to destroy the country without reprisal.
birdographer
(2,937 posts)I have been drawing moral conclusions about trump supporters since 2016, myself.
Joinfortmill
(21,162 posts)malthaussen
(18,567 posts)You know, we all know he done it. And we all know that he'd do worse if he could. The indictment changes nothing of that. And it is dangerous to decide, solely on the strength of an indictment, that the accused is guilty. That's not too far from assuming that someone "under investigation" is guilty, which is clearly untrue because plenty of innocent people have been "investigated" for one thing or another.
The problem is that Mr Trump's guilt is pretty evident, and he has self-convicted many times on other charges. But none of this has changed the opinions of those who support him. There is nothing about the actual fact of indictment that makes him any more or less likely to be guilty, even if we stipulate that prosecutors rarely bring charges unless they are 95% sure of a conviction. (And conviction of Mr Trump can never be 95% certain as long as it is in the control of a jury, which may be tainted by True Believers). "Americans who care about the Constitution" should have decided Mr Trump was non grata long since, the fact that he is now indicted for crimes against that Constitution should not be the deciding factor.
-- Mal
Recycle_Guru
(2,973 posts)there are sick people who will be for Trump no matter what; nut there are also wrong headed folks who will see the number of indictments and think twice about this whole Trump thing .
malthaussen
(18,567 posts)Yes, people are funny creatures, motivated by what should not be motivating, and left unmoved by what should be unsupportable.
-- Mal
allegorical oracle
(6,480 posts)he'll just pardon himself." Actually heard Andrea Mitchell say that quietly the other day. "He'll just pardon himself" should not be uttered.
Back in the Watergate days there was similar conjecture -- that Nixon could pardon himself rather than resign. The consensus among the legal and Constitutional scholars was that "the judge cannot judge himself." Yeah, I know. We're living in a different era.
malthaussen
(18,567 posts)As with any rule, written or unwritten, what matters is the will and leverage to enforce, and not the mere matter of what the rule says.
-- Mal
CaptainTruth
(8,200 posts)JHB
(38,213 posts)...it's written by a recently-former Republican who mainly repeats what liberals have been saying for over 30 years. Especially when it is someone who spent his career providing cover for his party to reach its current depths.
erronis
(23,875 posts)Nichols registered with the Republican Party in 1979. He describes himself as a Never Trump conservative.[17] During the 2016 presidential campaign, Nichols argued that conservatives should vote for Hillary Clinton, whom he detested, because Trump was "too mentally unstable" to serve as commander-in-chief.[18]
Nichols continued that type of argument for the 2018 midterm elections and advocated that Republicans could save the party by electing as many Democrats as possible in that election.[19]
Following the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court of the United States, Nichols announced on October 7, 2018, that he would leave the Republican Party to become an independent. He claimed that Senator Susan Collins's "yes" vote on the confirmation convinced him that the Republican Party exists to exercise raw political power.[20] He stated that the Republicans have become a threat to the rule of law and to constitutional norms. Nichols also criticized the Democratic Party for being "torn between totalitarian instincts on one side and complete political malpractice on the other". He said that with the exception of Senators Chris Coons, Sheldon Whitehouse, and Amy Klobuchar, the Democratic party's behavior during the Kavanaugh hearings was "detestable".[20]
In an opinion column published in 2019, Nichols cited the Mueller Report to argue that Trump failed in his role as a citizen and then as commander-in-chief, by not doing more to prevent and punish the Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[21]
In April 2022, Nichols was quoted regarding the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, stating: "If Putin's goal was to cement his grip on power by making Russia hated for decades to come, well, congratulations, I guess."[22]
Celerity
(54,407 posts)this!
and

and

Manchin and Collins could have stopped it, even if Daines had been there and voted YES


malthaussen
(18,567 posts)He has split with the conservatives before when the spirit moves him. Oh, he's one of them, to be sure, but he doesn't stand out.
The same cannot be said of Gorsuch or Barrett.
-- Mal
ffr
(23,398 posts)We were screaming it at the top of our lungs, don't let this grifter get elected. Instead, elect the popular lady who has overwhelming support when she was SoS and Senator. It's a no brainer!
But, I'm glad to see the light switch getting flicked by more and more people. Yes, TFG is a danger to democracy everywhere, even those individuals who would unwittingly support his candidacy.
markodochartaigh
(5,545 posts)tapped the authoritarianism flowing through the US body politic. Previously the corporate Republicans had this authoritarianism semi-contained. After seeing Trump's successes, many more Republican politicians are eager to channel their inner Strong Leader. The Republicans are already planning on permanently holding power through initiatives like Project 2025. Until the Republicans can retake power from the 80% of their base who authoritarian the entire Republican party is an existential threat to US democracy.
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)Someone like trump was able to win because the people have had it with a preponderance of politicians getting filthy rich off their backs. Both parties. I have spoken with many Dems who voted trump hoping for a change in the way Washington works. It was easy.
Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)my dog tells the truth in a timely way
the media almost never
Skittles
(171,709 posts)huh?
highplainsdem
(62,137 posts)Poiuyt
(18,272 posts)People who support Trump are either racist or deeply deranged.
617Blue
(2,472 posts)including family members (my brother for instance).
The entire party is so malevolent and deranged that I cannot abide people who are on board. I won't engage and I'm not interested in rationalizations.
I make it a point to steer clear and actively avoid any hint of political discussion with co workers or new acquaintances because I don't wanna know.
If you're GOP you are dead to me and I have no respect for your intelligence or character.
Poiuyt
(18,272 posts)We had always managed to avoid discussing politics, but Trump and covid ended that. I just can't be friends with someone whose core values are so different from mine.
Delphinus
(12,522 posts)Great read!
Pacifist Patriot
(25,212 posts)"The indictment handed down today challenges every American to put a shoulder to the wheel and defend our republic in every peaceful, legal, and civilized way they can."