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markpkessinger

(8,912 posts)
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 12:07 PM Aug 2023

Tom Nichols' brilliant, stunning essay in The Atlantic . . .

If you haven't yet read it, by all means read Tom Nichols' stunning essay in The Atlantic, titled "This is the case.". Truly a must-read! From the essay:

The rest of us, as a nation but also as individuals, can no longer indulge the pretense that Trump is just another Republican candidate, that supporting Donald Trump is just another political choice, and that agreeing with Trump’s attacks on our democracy is just a difference of opinion. (Those of us who share our views in the media have a particular duty to cease discussing Trump as if he were a normal candidate—or even a normal person—especially after today’s indictment.) I have long described Trump’s candidacies as moral choices and tests of civic character, but I have also cautioned that Americans, for the sake of social comity, should resist too many arguments about politics among themselves. I can no longer defend this advice.

The indictment handed down today challenges every American to put a shoulder to the wheel and defend our republic in every peaceful, legal, and civilized way they can. According to the charges, not only did Trump try to overturn the election; he presided over a clutch of co-conspirators who intended to put down any further challenges to Trump’s continued rule by force. . . .

[. . . .]

This is why we can no longer merely roll our eyes when an annoying uncle rhapsodizes about stolen elections. We should not gently ask our parents if perhaps we might change the channel from Fox during dinner. We are not obligated to gingerly change the subject when an old friend goes on about “Demonrats” or the dire national-security implications around Hunter Biden’s genitalia. Enough of all this; we can love our friends and our family and our neighbors without accepting their terms of debate. To support Trump is to support sedition and violence, and we must be willing to speak this truth not only to power but to our fellow citizens.

Trump and his media enablers, of course, will fume that any criticism of choices made by millions of voters is uncivil and condescending—even as they paint other American citizens as traitors who support pedophiles and perverts. Trump has made such accusations, and the implied threat of violence behind them, part of the everyday American political environment. This brutish bullying is aimed at stopping the rest of us from speaking our mind. But after today, every American citizen who cares about the Constitution should affirm, without hesitation, that any form of association with Trump is reprehensible, that each of us will draw moral conclusions about anyone who continues to support him, and that these conclusions will guide both our political and our personal choices.
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Tom Nichols' brilliant, stunning essay in The Atlantic . . . (Original Post) markpkessinger Aug 2023 OP
Archived usonian Aug 2023 #1
Thank you very much. Joinfortmill Aug 2023 #9
Thanks! I used to get The Atlantic but my ability to stay on top of my stack of material erronis Aug 2023 #11
My subscription mamacita75 Aug 2023 #24
It makes me feel guilty - so much good writing. Perhaps they should cut back.... erronis Aug 2023 #26
I struggle NJCher Aug 2023 #44
Thank you, usonian! calimary Aug 2023 #27
Thanks! highplainsdem Aug 2023 #31
Truth to power..power of media..they could change the narrative if asiliveandbreathe Aug 2023 #2
I don't watch m$m either. Yes, I do on occasion pick up a clip by Rachael or Lawrence, but not PortTack Aug 2023 #14
Great read. underpants Aug 2023 #3
K & R SunSeeker Aug 2023 #4
My supposed BFF of 36 years dumped me OMGWTF Aug 2023 #5
Well, hell. crim son Aug 2023 #34
yes, I read it. Trump's name needs to be along the lines of Rasputin Recycle_Guru Aug 2023 #6
his name should become a slur cab67 Aug 2023 #20
good reference--yes Recycle_Guru Aug 2023 #21
In all sincerity, I believe this will absolutely happen. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2023 #39
Yup. I arrived at that point on January 6th. Martin68 Aug 2023 #7
The thing is, they DON'T care about the Constitution... ECL213 Aug 2023 #8
Neither do the repuglicon SCOTUS justices (care about the Constitution) erronis Aug 2023 #17
Agreed! And they are the ones who make my stomach turn and my blood boil... ECL213 Aug 2023 #38
Great essay birdographer Aug 2023 #10
Gave me chills. Joinfortmill Aug 2023 #12
I'm afraid I disagree. malthaussen Aug 2023 #13
it still could be-- people are funny creatures Recycle_Guru Aug 2023 #23
I think this is true, but that doesn't mean it is right. malthaussen Aug 2023 #42
Thoughtful points. Problem w/ media that I have is the casual reference to "...if he wins allegorical oracle Aug 2023 #30
There are precedents of governors pardoning themselves. malthaussen Aug 2023 #43
It really is an excellent article. CaptainTruth Aug 2023 #15
Nice essay, but I bristle at calling anything "brilliant, stunning" when... JHB Aug 2023 #16
Good point about just being a repuglicon "never-trump" when it's helpful to him. erronis Aug 2023 #19
Senator Susan Collins's "yes" vote on the confirmation convinced him that the Republican Party Celerity Aug 2023 #25
Ironically, Mr Kavanaugh has not been a major problem. malthaussen Aug 2023 #45
I think for most of us, including Hillary Clinton in 2016, he was a danger then ffr Aug 2023 #18
Trump markodochartaigh Aug 2023 #22
Well done. MOMFUDSKI Aug 2023 #28
that's a must read ???? Tetrachloride Aug 2023 #29
? Skittles Aug 2023 #33
K&R! highplainsdem Aug 2023 #32
I'm glad to hear someone else say that we need to make moral conclusions about Trump supporters Poiuyt Aug 2023 #35
Yep. I can't like, love or respect anyone who supports GOP 617Blue Aug 2023 #37
I haven't lost any family members because of Trump, but I did lose my best friend Poiuyt Aug 2023 #41
Thank you Delphinus Aug 2023 #36
This sentence needs to be internalized by every American of conscience. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2023 #40

erronis

(23,875 posts)
11. Thanks! I used to get The Atlantic but my ability to stay on top of my stack of material
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 01:41 PM
Aug 2023

has disappeared.

mamacita75

(173 posts)
24. My subscription
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:23 PM
Aug 2023

I had to let lapse because I got behind as well. It is a really good magazine but with other ones I have I could not keep up. Contributing authors write great, long articles. I had nearly a year stacked up because I got backed up too!

NJCher

(43,164 posts)
44. I struggle
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 11:30 AM
Aug 2023

to keep up with The New Yorker, which I totally love. Then I see what The Atlantic has to offer and I want that, too.

asiliveandbreathe

(8,203 posts)
2. Truth to power..power of media..they could change the narrative if
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 12:32 PM
Aug 2023

they so choosed..

For me, I no longer consider the media my choice..drivel..all day long..the threat is real and they need to step up..oh, they will throw us a bone every now and then..like donning a mask every so often..put it on, take it off..

I told hubby I was ready to pack my sneakers and hit the road..from AZ to Washington DC..walking and we are walking..Let me hear the first salvo from anyone..and I am with you.."fired up, ready to go"...what do we have to lose? EVERYTHING!!!

Shoulder to the wheel.. excellent!!!

For now, GOTV..

PortTack

(35,820 posts)
14. I don't watch m$m either. Yes, I do on occasion pick up a clip by Rachael or Lawrence, but not
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 01:51 PM
Aug 2023

Much beyond that.

OMGWTF

(5,131 posts)
5. My supposed BFF of 36 years dumped me
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 01:23 PM
Aug 2023

because I’m not a MAGAt. It’s okay because I prefer my friends who aren’t fascist.

crim son

(27,552 posts)
34. Well, hell.
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 09:46 PM
Aug 2023

I'm sorry to hear it but sometimes you must choose between right and wrong.

Recycle_Guru

(2,973 posts)
6. yes, I read it. Trump's name needs to be along the lines of Rasputin
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 01:27 PM
Aug 2023

or Benedict Arnold when it is uttered. We should not countenance any sympathetic views of Trump and this treasonous conspiracy.

ECL213

(445 posts)
8. The thing is, they DON'T care about the Constitution...
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 01:32 PM
Aug 2023

They only care about owning the libs. Trump could wipe his ass with the Constitution in the middle of Fifth Avenue, and he wouldn't lose one vote.

erronis

(23,875 posts)
17. Neither do the repuglicon SCOTUS justices (care about the Constitution)
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:00 PM
Aug 2023

Alito, Thomas especially are using the power vested in them by the Constitution to destroy democracy.

ECL213

(445 posts)
38. Agreed! And they are the ones who make my stomach turn and my blood boil...
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 09:24 AM
Aug 2023

because the Dems have 60 Senators or someone expands the Court, they can continue to destroy the country without reprisal.

malthaussen

(18,567 posts)
13. I'm afraid I disagree.
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 01:44 PM
Aug 2023

You know, we all know he done it. And we all know that he'd do worse if he could. The indictment changes nothing of that. And it is dangerous to decide, solely on the strength of an indictment, that the accused is guilty. That's not too far from assuming that someone "under investigation" is guilty, which is clearly untrue because plenty of innocent people have been "investigated" for one thing or another.

The problem is that Mr Trump's guilt is pretty evident, and he has self-convicted many times on other charges. But none of this has changed the opinions of those who support him. There is nothing about the actual fact of indictment that makes him any more or less likely to be guilty, even if we stipulate that prosecutors rarely bring charges unless they are 95% sure of a conviction. (And conviction of Mr Trump can never be 95% certain as long as it is in the control of a jury, which may be tainted by True Believers). "Americans who care about the Constitution" should have decided Mr Trump was non grata long since, the fact that he is now indicted for crimes against that Constitution should not be the deciding factor.

-- Mal

Recycle_Guru

(2,973 posts)
23. it still could be-- people are funny creatures
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:20 PM
Aug 2023

there are sick people who will be for Trump no matter what; nut there are also wrong headed folks who will see the number of indictments and think twice about this whole Trump thing .

malthaussen

(18,567 posts)
42. I think this is true, but that doesn't mean it is right.
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 11:26 AM
Aug 2023

Yes, people are funny creatures, motivated by what should not be motivating, and left unmoved by what should be unsupportable.

-- Mal

allegorical oracle

(6,480 posts)
30. Thoughtful points. Problem w/ media that I have is the casual reference to "...if he wins
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 08:17 PM
Aug 2023

he'll just pardon himself." Actually heard Andrea Mitchell say that quietly the other day. "He'll just pardon himself" should not be uttered.

Back in the Watergate days there was similar conjecture -- that Nixon could pardon himself rather than resign. The consensus among the legal and Constitutional scholars was that "the judge cannot judge himself." Yeah, I know. We're living in a different era.

malthaussen

(18,567 posts)
43. There are precedents of governors pardoning themselves.
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 11:29 AM
Aug 2023

As with any rule, written or unwritten, what matters is the will and leverage to enforce, and not the mere matter of what the rule says.

-- Mal

JHB

(38,213 posts)
16. Nice essay, but I bristle at calling anything "brilliant, stunning" when...
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 01:54 PM
Aug 2023

...it's written by a recently-former Republican who mainly repeats what liberals have been saying for over 30 years. Especially when it is someone who spent his career providing cover for his party to reach its current depths.

erronis

(23,875 posts)
19. Good point about just being a repuglicon "never-trump" when it's helpful to him.
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:05 PM
Aug 2023
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Nichols_(academic)#Politics

Politics
Nichols registered with the Republican Party in 1979. He describes himself as a Never Trump conservative.[17] During the 2016 presidential campaign, Nichols argued that conservatives should vote for Hillary Clinton, whom he detested, because Trump was "too mentally unstable" to serve as commander-in-chief.[18]

Nichols continued that type of argument for the 2018 midterm elections and advocated that Republicans could save the party by electing as many Democrats as possible in that election.[19]

Following the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court of the United States, Nichols announced on October 7, 2018, that he would leave the Republican Party to become an independent. He claimed that Senator Susan Collins's "yes" vote on the confirmation convinced him that the Republican Party exists to exercise raw political power.[20] He stated that the Republicans have become a threat to the rule of law and to constitutional norms. Nichols also criticized the Democratic Party for being "torn between totalitarian instincts on one side and complete political malpractice on the other". He said that with the exception of Senators Chris Coons, Sheldon Whitehouse, and Amy Klobuchar, the Democratic party's behavior during the Kavanaugh hearings was "detestable".[20]

In an opinion column published in 2019, Nichols cited the Mueller Report to argue that Trump failed in his role as a citizen and then as commander-in-chief, by not doing more to prevent and punish the Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.[21]

In April 2022, Nichols was quoted regarding the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, stating: "If Putin's goal was to cement his grip on power by making Russia hated for decades to come, well, congratulations, I guess."[22]

Celerity

(54,407 posts)
25. Senator Susan Collins's "yes" vote on the confirmation convinced him that the Republican Party
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:39 PM
Aug 2023
exists to exercise raw political power.'


this!

and




and




Manchin and Collins could have stopped it, even if Daines had been there and voted YES


malthaussen

(18,567 posts)
45. Ironically, Mr Kavanaugh has not been a major problem.
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 11:33 AM
Aug 2023

He has split with the conservatives before when the spirit moves him. Oh, he's one of them, to be sure, but he doesn't stand out.

The same cannot be said of Gorsuch or Barrett.

-- Mal

ffr

(23,398 posts)
18. I think for most of us, including Hillary Clinton in 2016, he was a danger then
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:02 PM
Aug 2023

We were screaming it at the top of our lungs, don't let this grifter get elected. Instead, elect the popular lady who has overwhelming support when she was SoS and Senator. It's a no brainer!

But, I'm glad to see the light switch getting flicked by more and more people. Yes, TFG is a danger to democracy everywhere, even those individuals who would unwittingly support his candidacy.

markodochartaigh

(5,545 posts)
22. Trump
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:20 PM
Aug 2023

tapped the authoritarianism flowing through the US body politic. Previously the corporate Republicans had this authoritarianism semi-contained. After seeing Trump's successes, many more Republican politicians are eager to channel their inner Strong Leader. The Republicans are already planning on permanently holding power through initiatives like Project 2025. Until the Republicans can retake power from the 80% of their base who authoritarian the entire Republican party is an existential threat to US democracy.

 

MOMFUDSKI

(7,080 posts)
28. Well done.
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 06:39 PM
Aug 2023

Someone like trump was able to win because the people have had it with a preponderance of politicians getting filthy rich off their backs. Both parties. I have spoken with many Dems who voted trump hoping for a change in the way Washington works. It was easy.

Poiuyt

(18,272 posts)
35. I'm glad to hear someone else say that we need to make moral conclusions about Trump supporters
Wed Aug 2, 2023, 10:46 PM
Aug 2023

People who support Trump are either racist or deeply deranged.

617Blue

(2,472 posts)
37. Yep. I can't like, love or respect anyone who supports GOP
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 08:44 AM
Aug 2023

including family members (my brother for instance).

The entire party is so malevolent and deranged that I cannot abide people who are on board. I won't engage and I'm not interested in rationalizations.

I make it a point to steer clear and actively avoid any hint of political discussion with co workers or new acquaintances because I don't wanna know.

If you're GOP you are dead to me and I have no respect for your intelligence or character.

Poiuyt

(18,272 posts)
41. I haven't lost any family members because of Trump, but I did lose my best friend
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 11:08 AM
Aug 2023

We had always managed to avoid discussing politics, but Trump and covid ended that. I just can't be friends with someone whose core values are so different from mine.

Pacifist Patriot

(25,212 posts)
40. This sentence needs to be internalized by every American of conscience.
Thu Aug 3, 2023, 09:36 AM
Aug 2023

"The indictment handed down today challenges every American to put a shoulder to the wheel and defend our republic in every peaceful, legal, and civilized way they can."

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