Andrea Mitchell's name is Andrea Mitchell

[obamanut2012]

Is is not Mrs. Greenspan.

I cannot stand her, but this is so gross and sexist and it continues to be a problem on here. It should not be a problem on here.

Her name is Andrea Mitchell.

And, I am not debating this. Sexism/racism/homophobia against one is bigotry against all and normalizes it, and everyone on this board needs to be against it and call it out.

[MontanaMama]

1. I agree with your point, obamanut2020.

Andrea Mitchell is a tool. I don't mind saying it.

[Deuxcents]

4. I agree with you, Mama

[obamanut2012]

21. Yup, lots of perfectly good non-sexist names to call her!

[Kid Berwyn]

2. So be nice to people who crap on Democrats.

That's nice, but is it fair?

[Sympthsical]

7. It's simple

If you're only against sexism, racism, or any other -ism only if it's used against someone you like, then you're not really against those things at all.

[Kid Berwyn]

10. Rhetorically, that is not the issue.

When it comes to persuasive argumentation, and only my side must follow rules of civility, my side is at a disadvantage.

[Sympthsical]

12. So sexist epithets are "argumentation"

Is that really what we're going with?

Is it really that hard to just not be sexist?

It's like that argument about being gay. Where some right-wingers think it's a choice because they struggle with those feelings and choose not to act on them. So they figure everyone can or should "choose" not to be gay.

If people are debating the finer points of when it's ok to be sexist, I'm going to assume they naturally have a lot of sexism rattling around in their noggin somewhere. The question is merely one of when they deem it socially acceptable to deploy it.

It's not any better.

[Kid Berwyn]

17. So, where did I say any of that?

I said it's not OK for the Democrats to play nice when the Republicans are murderers.

[Sympthsical]

20. Your response to the OP

Made your position fairly clear.

When someone says a simple don't be sexist, and they get push back, the context reveals plenty without explicit statement.

[Kid Berwyn]

28. No, the OP was directing me to refer to Andrea Mitchell as Andrea Mitchell.

I spoke up because I do not want to be pre-censored as to how I refer to her.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. No, the OP was about A.M. being referred to as "Mrs. Greenspan" but

truthfully, you knew that.

[Kid Berwyn]

59. No, you are replying to what I wrote in reply to that.

Which was, first, not what I wrote; and, second, implied I was bigoted.

[whathehell]

165. Is "pre-censoring" what you call following DU rules?

Sorry Kid, but on DU we are all "censored" against referring to people in sexist, racist and homophobic terms.

[Kid Berwyn]

170. No, I will chose my own words to describe Andrea Mitchell or Alan Greenspan.

If I break any DU rules, feel free to let me know.

[whathehell]

173. Lol..If you break any DU rules

someone will let you know.

[brooklynite]

49. Is Andrea Mitchell a Republican?

[Kid Berwyn]

56. She certainly reports like one.

You know her from her Philly days?

[BigDemVoter]

81. I am pretty sure she is Republican.

Or at least she USED to be one, and I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

[brooklynite]

87. "I am pretty sure...."; definitely a smoking gun.

[BigDemVoter]

107. She generally favors conservative republican causes & candidates with her reporting and

tends to denigrate Dems. It was very apparent when Clinton & Obama were both President. . . She used a lot of "what aboutism" in her reports and was very positive towards Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. I'd say there is a very good chance she's a Republican.

[whathehell]

76. Are racist epithets "argumentation"?

Given that both Race and Gender are conditions of birth, whoever answers "no" to one must answer "no" to the other.

It's no harder to find gender neutral insults than it is race neutral insults.

[obamanut2012]

22. Exactly

[whathehell]

85. Exactly..

Thank you.

[obamanut2012]

23. lol I said nothing of the sort

Nice try.

[Kid Berwyn]

36. You demand I refer to someone who considers me and my politics as inferiors with respect.

No, thank you.

[Ms. Toad]

51. No. The demand was to not refer to her as an appendage of her husband

Because erasing women is sexist. But you know that.

[treestar]

131. I know she is hard on Hillary

Do you think the intent in calling her Mrs. G. is to erase her? How can that be done when she's on TV all the time saying things that make DUers irate?

Do you think not using his name makes her a feminist?

[Ms. Toad]

132. The point isn't her feelings.

or whether she is a feminist or not.

Sexism hurts all of us, whether it is directed at us or not. So the particular target is completely irrelevant - as is the intent with which something is said. What matters is the bigger picture - what is the effect on women of using gender, or of erasing women, as an insult.

And in this case, using Mrs. Greenspan (or Mrs. Alan Greenspan) is even clearer. Not everyone knows who Andrea Mitchell is married to - so calling her Mrs. Greenspan means that a significant portion of the population will not even know who you are referring to. So it is not just erasing by refusing to call her by her name, it is erasing because no such person exists - so the name used as an insult wipes her out entirely (for many of us).

[treestar]

138. her feeling don't matter, good

I'm willing to bet she would laugh her ass off at this thread. As would many people, many of them swing voters.

We have to chill at a certain point or we look absurd and turn voters off with bad messaging that looks like we are taking seriously something that has little effect. No, calling her Mrs. G. does not "hurt us all." It's simply showing her right wing associations.

[mcar]

55. That isn't even close to what the OP said

"I hate Andrea Mitchell." "Andrea Mitchell is a tool." "Andrea Mitchell is a terrible journalist." "Andrea Mitchell loves Republicans."

That's not treating AM with respect.

"I hate Mrs. Greenspan" is sexist.

It's possible to criticize someone without being sexist.

[Kid Berwyn]

57. And that's not what I wrote.

It does say a lot about what you got from it, though.

[whathehell]

72. Yes, using 'gender neutral' insults isn't hard.

It's based on the same principle as using Race-Neutral insults. One attacks character, not gender or race.

[mcar]

74. It really is that easy

[whathehell]

84. Yes, thank you..

There ARE rules here against sexist insults, although it's hard to believe at times.

[treestar]

139. a very low bar for that

makes me wonder if there are any insulting terms you don't find to be sexist, or racist, or whatnot.

Right wingers will throw around far worse terms. Instead you are looking for mild insults from liberal Democrats.

Find some really bad sexism to fight. On the internet, it is not hard to find.

[whathehell]

146. So "mildly" racist and sexist terms are ok with you?

Sorry, but I don't believe most on DU share that view, nor do I think those on a Democratic site should be subjected to the "far worse" terms of Right Wingers before feeling they can object. There's no such thing as an "okay" amount of disrespect.

[treestar]

157. then you will be scolding a lot of people

who don't know that your tolerance is zero. Such a thing never makes sense. Turn off all of the independent voters talking about minor insults - great idea!

Calling someone a doodoo head is equal to calling them a b----h, right? Nothings should be tolerated. We only want the votes of the pure.

[whathehell]

158. That's fine.

I've no problem with that, especially since -- your little scold about Independents notwithstanding -- we happen to be on DEMOCRATIC Underground. not 'Independent Underground'.. I think Democratic sites should have zero tolerance for bigotry. If you have a problem with that, what can I say but "Ignore is your friend"

[treestar]

169. others could read it

and it gets into the media. And it is good not all DU agrees and some of us willing to debate it a bit. We don't need to be going so far that people who aren't this far left think they can't talk to us because they could inadvertently say something that will be labeled sexist, etc., when that never occurred to them.

[whathehell]

174. That's not my problem. I stand by my statements,

and again, if you don't like my posts, Ignore is your friend.

[BigDemVoter]

82. Yeah, we don't even have to attach her to that piece of shit spouse of hers.

She is ALREADY disgusting. . . Ms. Mitchell is bad enough on her own merits.

[mcar]

89. Right?

[Maru Kitteh]

37. With your logic it would be acceptable to call Justice Thomas "Sambo" or

the N-word or some other racist shit.

Think about it. You are saying people we don't like are fair game when it comes to sexism. You are saying people we don't like are fair game when it comes to bigotry.

[Kid Berwyn]

43. That is not what I said.

Call me a racist or a liar, I don't care: I'll fight the Rightwing propagandists, shills, liars, hacks, and talking heads of Andrea Mitchell's ilk like I want.

And I don't appreciate you insinuating I am a racist, sexist or bigot.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

103. To be fair, I have seen several "Uncle Tom" posts over the years

So some here are okay with racism if they don't like the target as well.

[treestar]

129. It is not nearly that bad, come on

calling her a b-----h might be more equivalent.

Still no one on DU has called Thomas that, because we can see the huge difference.

Logic includes degrees.

[we can do it]

108. That is not the issue

[Kid Berwyn]

109. So be polite to the people who crap on us.

Got it.

Alan Greenspan helped create the wealthiest times in human history.

What his wife, the reporter Andrea Mitchell, and her employer NBC News fail to mention, is that almost all of that wealth has gone to a tiny fraction of people, courtesy of Trickle Down economics, which her husband helped implement, coincidentally I’m told.

[we can do it]

110. Sexism is never correct

[Kid Berwyn]

111. I never said it was.

Rhetorically, however, we liberal, progressive and democratic people — especially members of the Democratic Party — are at a tremendous disadvantage when it comes to mass communication. While the likes of Lyndsey Graham and Art Laffer are popular guests on television, liberal politicians and economists are not. So we receive very little air time to tell our side of the story. Ms. Mitchell’s employer, NBC News, likes it that way. Any opportunities that we get to make a point should be used, even if it occasionally breaks decorum.

BTW: As Oblomov, Octafish and now Kid Berwyn, I’ve posted on DU for more than 20 years. Show me an example of where I exhibit bigotry or prejudice of any kind to another human being, apart from tearing Reagan, Bushes, Cheney, Trump, etc a new asshole. You won’t.

[we can do it]

112. This is one example, and I have been here that long. Tenure is no excuse.

[Kid Berwyn]

113. Excuse for what?

Assigning bad intent when I didn’t do or write what you imply is a tool of the propagandist.

I have a right to point out Andrea Mitchell is married to Alan Greenspan, as is my right to ridicule the rights of kings, tyrants and fascists with whatever words I need to use. Otherwise, Andrea and Alan’s swell friends get away with smearing a great President as “Crooked.”

[Comfortably_Numb]

3. I avoid her hour on MSNBC like the plague. Disgusted to see her on the round table. Switched to

Netflix. Tuned back in now and damned if she isn’t still there. Andrea Mitchell sux as a talking head.

[Comfortably_Numb]

6. Well shit. There she is...

[obamanut2012]

25. lol

She does pop up a lot!

[EYESORE 9001]

5. Duly noted

I’m not intimidated by virtue signaling and will continue to criticize her as I see fit. I’m not a fan of the ‘Mrs. Alan Greenspan’ stuff either, but I won’t hesitate to remind everyone about her heinous hubby.

[LakeArenal]

8. I, as woman, find it more of an insult to Mr Greenspan.

Everyone should be able to have the name they want want.

And tho we may dislike her, she isn’t a name caller so don’t send something she doesn’t do.

[obamanut2012]

27. Well said, thx

[BannonsLiver]

9. Ok

[chillfactor]

11. Can't stand her

Never watch her program. So disappointed to see her at the round table all morning. Turned audio off and just watched the screen. Can't wait until Rachel and company come on.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Been Saying That For Years

She did not take Al's name, so she's never been Mrs. Greenspan.
Besides, I think she would have done things we would find rotten & duplicitous if she never married Al.
Yeah, he's a piece of work but so is she. All are her own.

[obamanut2012]

29. Thanks, you get it

(Also, just found a very nice hickory mashie at a garage sale)

[ProfessorGAC]

40. I've Got One Hanging On The Wall

Was from a kid's set from the 1920s.

[mcar]

58. Well said!

[Pathwalker]

14. How do you feel about all the posts that call Trump by everything

BUT his name? This cuts both ways.

PS: What do I call her? "Not on my TV!!"

[obamanut2012]

30. Make your own OP

This is about Mitchell, not Trump.

[BannonsLiver]

38. There have been attempts to police those as well.

[NYC Liberal]

52. This post is specifically about calling a woman by her husband's last name

when she hasn’t taken his name. Not about (non-bigoted) nicknames like “Lady Liar” or something.

[whathehell]

147. The difference is, he's attacked for his character, or lack of such,

NOT for his gender...Get it now?

[tenderfoot]

15. Here's Andrea Mitchell sleeping on the job

Link to tweet

[XanaDUer2]

143. Wow

Imagine if Biden did that. Maybe she's diabetic?

Still. Thanks for sharing that.

[40oz to Freedom]

148. If Biden dozed off in an interview like that, Andrea would spend all show talking about it.

[Polly Hennessey]

16. Ms. Mitchell/Mrs. Greenspan is still the same

person. Using her married name puts more definition onto who she is. I don’t see a problem with it. Reminds me of who she married.

Watching her a few minutes ago I was struck by her calling tRump President Trump. A few seconds later Andrew Weissman was on calling tRump former President and Anna Cabrera just used former President. Obvious use of terminology on Mrs. Greenspan/Ms. Mitchell’s part.

[ProfessorGAC]

41. Her Married Name Is Mitchell

She did not take Al's name when they got married.
Mitchell is not merely her TV, it's her actual, legal name.

[delisen]

48. She doesn't have a married name.

I think it is sad so many women change thei name to a husband name. it really works against equality but I still address them by their chosen names.

[B.See]

101. Excellent point.

I see nothing wrong, racist, or sexist with reminding people of ANYone's (male of female) associations and political connections as a way of putting that person's political pov in perspective, especially when that person, by her/his own words and actions, raise legitimate concerns.

[whathehell]

149. Sure..Except we don't hear Alan Greenspan

being called "Mr. MItchell".

[AZSkiffyGeek]

19. Well, the lesson from this thread seems to be

That if Republicans are assholes, Democrats can, nay should, be as well.

[Polly Hennessey]

26. Your expectation is that we be pure of heart and mouth.

Good luck with that expectation.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

35. I expect that of everyone

And if someone takes pride in being an asshole, that says more about them than my expectations do.

[whathehell]

151. No, our expectations are that, if warranted,

we attack people on the basis of their Character, not their Condition of Birth, i.e. gender, race, etc. This is what makes us Democrats rather than Right Wing bigots

[whathehell]

167. Right, except then it makes us hypocrites

and no better than they are.

I don't know what the hig deal is, there's no shortage of NON-sexist insults.
.

[mountain grammy]

24. As long as she still puts President in front of trump's name

I don't give a shit what anyone calls her, as long as it's not 'reporter.'

[former9thward]

119. That is contemporary media practice.

The contemporary practice is to address former presidents as President (Surname)in conversation. The current president is the only one identified as The President or addressed as Mr. President.

https://www.formsofaddress.info/president-usa-former/

[mountain grammy]

134. it's not required..

[former9thward]

135. Nothing is required in life.

But professionals are not internet posters.

[LexVegas]

31. Some people get really pissy when a woman doesn't take her husbands name. nt

[obamanut2012]

33. Indeed

[ZonkerHarris]

32. One poster said their posted agism was justified earlier in another thread.

[obamanut2012]

34. I saw that

That was one of the reasons I posted this OP.

[prodigitalson]

39. wait, you actually think people call her that because they think women should change their last name

when they marry?

That's really what you think is happening?

[BannonsLiver]

44. Had the same reaction.

I think that’s just being used to bolster what is a fairly weak argument outlined in the Op, TBH.

[obamanut2012]

66. Ummm.... I didn't even imply that in any way

Nice try. Didn't work.

[Celerity]

77. I think almost all who call her Mrs Greenspan are doing it to tie her to that RW POS and expose

her own perceived RW prejudices and tendencies.

I highly doubt they are trying to make a statement (either explicit or implied) on women taking or not taking their husbands' surnames, whether singularly or hyphenated.

[Red Mountain]

98. Agreed

It's intended as a reminder of her bias not as a slur. It's a bit lazy but not everybody knows who she is and where she comes from.

It's shorthand for douchebag.

[Judi Lynn]

144. Thank you! Of course you are completely right.

Anyone who would support him, choose to live with him would NEVER be capable of accepting an actual democracy, would always be at serious odds with it.

If she didn't share his value system it would make so little sense to have anything to do with him.

The same could be said if she were, instead, a close, best friend of his, of any gender.

[obamanut2012]

65. lol when did I say that?

I do not think that at all

[BannonsLiver]

91. Lol never said you did

Someone who supported the statement made in your op did to another poster, however.

[treestar]

140. how is it sexist

unless you think it "erases her?" In a society where a good percentage of married women still do use their husband's last names, calling her that "erasing" her means all of the women who change are erasing themselves.

We aren't erasing Ms. Mitchell, but showing where her interests lie. Nobody on the left "erases" women - the internet is full of real sexism to fight. Fighting liberals over a silly name-call just makes us look laughable.

You can find people who will even say women should never have gotten the right to vote. Instead of fighting them - what is this about? This is a relatively safe space on this subject. This is the worst you can find! Aside from the occasional B word, which gets people kicked off.

[intheflow]

93. I think most people's default is she took her husband's name in marriage but kept Mitchell

for professional reasons. But she didn't do that. She's never been Mrs. Greenspan, even though she's married to that jerk. So it's an unconscious, implicit bias to call her that. That statement stands alone, apart from her cringeworthy reporting.

[whathehell]

168. "Misogyny is the last acceptable bigotry of the Left"

Katha Pollitt, The Nation.

[intheflow]

172. +1

[llmart]

42. I don't believe anyone on DU has ever seen her official ID such as driver's license or passport, etc

So none of us have any idea if she ever took his name or not. She could have decided to use her maiden name for professional reasons but took his name. Just because someone says their name is Andrea Mitchell and not Andrea Greenspan doesn't mean it's true.

This is coming from someone (me) who, during my career, has had to ID people from all over the world to get their legal names. I worked at a university onboarding professors and deans and nurses, lecturers, performers. It's a place where you typically get all sorts of people from all walks of life. I had a transgender person in the university library who wanted to go by a certain name, but until they could show me proof that they had legally changed their name, I very nicely told them that I would have to enter their name on all their paperwork and in the university directory as their former name. The person was understanding about it and did legally get the name change and brought me the legal documents.

My point is, it's pretty ridiculous that you are so upset by this as if you are a personal friend of Andrea what's-her-name, unless you know her personally.

[Ms. Toad]

60. Masking a woman merely an appendage of the man she married

Is sexist.

Please don't pretend that referring to someone on DU by the name they use is the same as what you record in legal records.

[obamanut2012]

68. Now some people upthread are saying I think a woman should change her name

When she is married or something. Their "accusation" against me makes no sense.

Thanks for getting it, Ms. T.

[prodigitalson]

104. a person's choice of life partner is an indication of their character

Is criticizing Eva Braun's choice of shawty off limits?

[Ms. Toad]

114. To the extent it is relevant, it is sexist to make the connection

by replacing a woman's first name with "Mrs." and give her a last name she doesn't use.

Aside from the sexist practice, it doesn't even serve the goal you are suggesting is legitimate: Since Andrea Mitchell has never used Greenspan as her last name, referring to her as Mrs. Greenspan would not even identify her as the person being talked about, except in people who already know who her husband is. It would simply add confusing about who the heck you are referring to.

If it is relevant (and in all but extremely rare circumstances it is not), you can add a footnote or an asside to identify her husband.

[prodigitalson]

115. so if I were to say to Eva Braun...well well who do we have here, if it isn't

Mrs. Adolph fucking Hitler. I'd be out of line?

[Ms. Toad]

116. Yes.

Before her marriage, she was Eva Braun. In the few hours between her marriage and her death, she was Eva Hitler. Replacing her first name with Mrs. is sexist.

If you need to make the connection explicit for some reason, you can identify her husband and the relationship. The choice to erase her own identity by replacing her name with her husband's is sexist.

[prodigitalson]

117. should I apologize to her?

[Ms. Toad]

118. It is far less about the specific person you are insulting using sexist comments

Than everyone else within the sound of your "voice" for whom you are creating a hostile environment.

It is exhausting for those of us who are women/minorities to encounter sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. crap both directed at us - and generally. But to encounter it in a place like DU, which has rules in place to make this a space which should be free from such crap makes the places in the world where we have to have our armor up all the time smaller.

So, while you should apologize to any woman you refer to as Mrs. Husband S. Name, you should also (1) exercise your empathy so that you actually change your attitude, (2) apologize to everyone who heard it, and (3) make changes in how you interact that reflects your changed attitude.

But, based on this conversation, I'm not holding my breath. It makes me sad that far too many on DU spend far more time finding excuses for why it is OK to be bigoted, sexist, homophobic, transhostile than they do listening to those impacted by both the bigoted insults they hurl at Republicans, and by their rationalization, repeated ad nauseum, about why it is hunky dory because we shouldn't coddle Republicans.

[prodigitalson]

120. you do know Hitler was, right?

[Ms. Toad]

123. This isn't about Hitler.

It is about insisting it is just fine to erase women by replacing their first name with Mrs. (and/or their husband's first name) and their last name with a last name that belongs to their husband.

You continue to confirm that you don't care about the impact your sexist insults (regardless of who you are insulting) have on women who encounter your comments.

[prodigitalson]

124. But would it even be appropriate for Eva to complain about it (being called Mrs. Adolph Hitler)

I mean it seems like it might come across as a bit insensitive on her part, no?

Even if she's right, is she really the best messenger?

[Ms. Toad]

125. This isn't about Hitler, or Greenspan.

No one pointing the sexism has suggested that they are speaking out of concern for Mitchll (or Eva Braun)

Since you apparently didn't read my last post:

It is about insisting it is just fine to erase women by replacing their first name with Mrs. (and/or their husband's first name) and their last name with a last name that belongs to their husband.

You continue to confirm that you don't care about the impact your sexist insults (regardless of who you are insulting) have on women who encounter your comments.

[prodigitalson]

126. yeah, but it is about Hitler

otherwise I would have had no real reason to be mean to Eva Braun in the first place. it's literally the fact she is an apendage to hilter that i'm throwing shade right?... and rightly so! fuck her. (AM is detestable in her own right, so you are on more solid ground there). . and the women who encounter my comments such Magda Gerbels and the other ladies in the bunker should have much bigger worries

[treestar]

127. There are those who DO choose to take the

husband's name. Then it would not be sexist, I would assume.

[Ms. Toad]

133. Referring to someone as

Mrs. George Smith (or whatever the husband's name is) is sexist.

If someone takes their husband's (or wife's) last name - or even if they choose an entirely different last name - using the name that is actually their name isn't sexist (and it is ridiculous to even suggest that).

That said, names are personal. If a person, regardless of gender, identifies how they would like to be referred to, it is important to honor their rerquest.

But that isn't the case here. People were referring to Andrea Mitchell - who chose not to ake her husband's name, who has not asked anyone to call her Mrs. Greenspan - as Mrs. Greenspan. That is sexist. It's not a hard concept, unless you are trying to rationalize why your use of sexist language as an insult is OK.

[treestar]

137. I wasn't talking about me, but about women who choose to change to

their husband's name. You appeared to me to have referred to that as a sexist choice on their own part.

But it is rather minor, and equating it to calling someone a slur-type word is ridiculous.

[whathehell]

160. Thank you..Why do these threads

so often remind me of writer Katha Pollitt's view that "Misogyny is the last acceptable bigotry of the Left"?

[Ms. Toad]

161. Misogyny has a couple of related bigotries that are still acceptable

homophobia and transhostility come to mind - although the former is more passive (i.e. used as an insult to those we hate, rather than direct homophobia)

[whathehell]

162. I don't see it here on DU..

There are, as with misogyny, specific rules forbidding it. The difference regarding misogyny seems to lie in enforcement.

[Ms. Toad]

163. You're not looking then.

People freqently call Lyndsay Graham a woman, advocate against allowing trans women to participate in sports, imply Republican men are homosexual.

I spend an inordinate amount of time responding to crap like the above.

There are express rules forbidding it, but juries often refuse to hide them.

[whathehell]

164. Oh, I'm looking..

but I still see a lot more misogyny allowed to stand.

[obamanut2012]

67. When has she ever professionally referred to herself as Andrea Greenspan?

Never.

[treestar]

141. and as if Andrea is terribly hurt by it

which we will never know.

Some people in a social setting might call her that. Does she correct them? We don't know.

There are some people who'd say it was transphobic not to use the transgender person's chosen name, even if you have to use what is the current legal name.

Because being oversensitive about these things is such a good virtue-signaling tool.

[whathehell]

152. Lol..So now you're using Right Wing memes like

"virtue signaling" and accusations of being "oversensitive" to sexist slights? I don't know..A simple request to use her actual NAME doesn't seem like a big ask.

[treestar]

156. are there no degrees of sexism?

Or is everything as bad as the worst thing.

virtue signaling is a good term for it. Right wingers do it too, just as much.

[Lunabell]

45. I agree.

But, just remember, there are still those on DU who think it's ok to call women, "b!#%h" and c#@t". Or to make light of Lindsey Graham's not so "manly" demeanor by calling his outrage a "tizzy". Yeah, I saw that on an earlier thread. No other man's anger is called a "tizzy". But, to some, that's ok even on DU.

[prodigitalson]

130. there does have to be some way to capture the southern gothic archetype that is Lindsey Graham

without sounding homophobic.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

47. Thank you. How many times have we had to do this? NT

[demmiblue]

50. K&R

[mcar]

53. I posted a similar OP about a year ago

and got slammed for it.

I agree 100%. Cannot stand Mitchell. But referring to her as a man's property is sexist, pure and simple.

Should we call 2nd Gentleman Doug Emhoff, "Mr. Harris?" No. That is not his name.

[obamanut2012]

62. I actually remember that OP and think I agreed with you!

Doug Emhoff is a good example.

[Ms. Toad]

54. Thank you.

DU should not need a reminder that blatant sexism is not a good look for people who claim to be progressive.

[obamanut2012]

63. Exactly

[elleng]

61. THANK YOU, I agree.

[obamanut2012]

64. You are welcome!

[whathehell]

69. THANK You!. As writer Katha Pollitt has said

"Misogyny is the last acceptable bigotry of the Left"

[Mr.Bill]

70. Is it still okay to call Trump

a steaming pile of pig shit?

[Recycle_Guru]

71. Mrs. Greenspan to me

[mcar]

78. Why?

[Recycle_Guru]

86. because I always want to tie Alan Greenspan's cratering of global economy

to her corporate "journalism"/stenographer self.

Sfe is the epitome of what is wrong with our unregulated and untrammeled corporate media cozying up to moneyed interests and power for the purpose of mass mind control rather than enlightenment.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

73. I saw it as trying to remind people that she is married to a scumbag Repub

But I also see your point as well.

[mcar]

79. She's bad enough without making her an appendage of her

husband.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

80. True that n/t

[edhopper]

83. That is how I saw it

It wasn't the Mrs. part that is important, It's Greenspan.

[SalviaBlue]

75. I think that name is used to remind us who she is married to...

Alan Greenspan was a pretty consequential player in the anti-democracy shenanigans in decades past. He was a long term Federal Reserve chairman. He was reportedly a disciple of libertarian icon Ayn Rand. His long-standing disdain for regulation are now held up as leading causes of the mortgage crisis and his expansionary monetary policy of "easy money" has been blamed in part for stoking the 2000 dot-com bubble and the 2008 financial crisis.

Andrea Mitchell is not a liberal and the way she frames political reporting reflects that. It is wise to know where she is coming from to help assess her POV.

[brooklynite]

90. And is she responsible for Greenspan's policies?

[SalviaBlue]

92. I didn't say that.

If there was a discussion about Ginni Thomas, it would be noteworthy that she is married to Clarence. I think that those of us who remember Greenspan may think it is noteworthy that AM is married to him, especially given her right leaning framing in her reporting.

[Ms. Toad]

94. You can do that without pretending she doesn't exist independent of her husband.

Here - if it is really important to remind people, I'll show you how it's done in a non-sexist way:

Andrea Mitchell* [rest of stuff that is about her]

*Andrea Mitchell is married to Alan Greenspan.

(Note: I don't think it is particularly noteworthy in Mitchell's case - just demonstrating that you don't have to refer to someone as Mrs. so-and-so to explain who they are related to. Not to mention that this claim is particularly ridiculous in this case, since far more people know who Andrea Mitchell is than who she is married to. By using a name she has never used, purportedly to remind people of who she is married to is likely to create confusion about the main person you are talking about.)

[brooklynite]

95. Funny how nobody holds Ronald Reagan's policies against his son Ron...

[Ms. Toad]

96. I was trying not to get tangled up in whether it was even relevant.

Generally, I don't think people are responsible for the actions of their parents, adult children, sibling, etc.

[SalviaBlue]

99. There are many political relatives that break away.

The ones that seem to toe the line (even stealthily like AM) usually get some push back; hence, Mrs. Greenspan meme. I personally have never, and would never, refer to her as such. I am of the opinion that name calling is counterproductive.

[betsuni]

88. K&R

[Hekate]

97. Thank you for the reminder, Obamanut. Out of respect, by the same token, ...

…we don’t call other obnoxious women B—, C—, or P—. *sigh* It is so, so tempting.

[whathehell]

153. Nor, rightfully, do we

call Black Conservatives the N word...It's the same principle, and it's hard to see why so many here are having a problem "getting" it.

[ArnoldLayne]

105. Well your right in a way but it's actually Mrs. Allen Greenspan.

[ArnoldLayne]

106. Well your right in a way but it's actually Mrs. Allen Greenspan

[Emile]

121. Out of all the problems in the world, this is not one of them!

[leftstreet]

122. Andrea Mitchell's husband destroyed the economy

Alan Greenspan was essentially the architect of the dot-com bubble AND the financial disaster of 2008

Let's get their names right

[treestar]

128. Right wingers aren't snowflakes

well, until they are, so I doubt she cares one whit.

It is not really calling her that, like you'd call her that in person, it's just a reminder of one of her right wing connections.

It's not so utterly horrible, like using a direct sexist slur like b------h or a direct racist slur, etc.

It's a micro aggression against a person who would not even bother to be offended and laugh all the way to the bank and love that she gets to go on TV and get her opinion to millions while little you upon whom she looks down is defending her - she'd likely laugh at you.

The right would use "Barry Obama" which Barack used to use but then changed his mind. I could get all offended at them doing that, but they would just laugh at me.

Both sides are not equal - there's a difference in tone and intent.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

136. She and her husband have done a lot of damage

end of story. Whatever his name and her name are.


Big corporate media company please fire here asap. tired of her both siderism and pandering to republicans on air makes me always change the channel...

[617Blue]

142. and her game is GOP whataboutism...

a vomiter of Beltway BS.

[Jersey Devil]

145. In my house her name is "mud"

"Mrs. Greenspan" may be, as you say, sexist, but I think it is more of an example of what people should strive not to be, and that is hypocritical name callers, making them appear just like those we are fighting against.

[Autumn]

150. I don't care what anybody calls Andrea Mitchell. Just don't call her a decent human being.

Don't call her husband, Allan Greenspan, a decent human being either.

[Rhiannon12866]

154. Thank you, excellent point.

And as much as I watch/post MSNBC, I'm not a fan of hers, either. But you're absolutely right.

[ecstatic]

155. I call her Andrea Mitchell but I think this OP is one opinion of many

I wish you had gone into more detail to explain your point of view because I want to understand but I am not sure which reference point you're coming from.

The greenspan stuff is before my time, but my understanding is that Greenspan is used as a guilt by association insult due to her association with Alan Greenspan who happens to be her husband. I think the nickname would have been used whether he was her brother father or whoever because it's the nearest scandal to her, and yes maybe it was lazy as far as insults go, but I think most insults are. People don't grab an encyclopedia and thoughtfully come up with the most appropriate insult.

In my opinion, the way you can tell that it's a lazy insult but not necessarily sexist is that no other republican or right leaning women are referred to that way. That should give a clue that it's not about lowering her status to just a wife (if that's what the issue is?), but about venting about two people at once. Like Jarvanka. Is that sexist? Again, jmo.

[ArnoldLayne]

159. No it's not it's actually Mrs. Allan Greenspan

[whathehell]

166. Nah, I think Alan is Mr. Andrea Mitchell.

[ArnoldLayne]

171. It's Mrs. Andrea Greenspan legally.