Pastor alarmed after Trump-loving congregants deride Jesus' teachings as 'weak'

[William769]

vangelical Christian leader Russell Moore revealed this week that many evangelical pastors have become alarmed that their Trump-loving congregants have become so militant that they are even rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ.

In an interview with NPR, Moore said that multiple pastors had told him disturbing stories about their congregants being upset when they read from the famous "Sermon on the Mount" in which Christ espoused the principles of forgiveness and mercy as central to Christian doctrine.

"Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — 'turn the other cheek' — [and] to have someone come up after to say, 'Where did you get those liberal talking points?'" Moore revealed. "And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ,' the response would not be, 'I apologize.' The response would be, 'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak.'"

Moore, who has been an outspoken critic of many evangelicals' embrace of Trump, argues that this has led him to conclude that American evangelical Christianity is now in crisis.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pastor-alarmed-after-trump-loving-congregants-deride-jesus-teachings-as-weak/ar-AA1f0TGr?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ENTPHB&cvid=867000ef2986413ea3db278b96480007&ei=56

[madashelltoo]

1. Turning on Jesus?

Well, that’s pretty much a wrap. Poor idiots.

[William769]

4. It burbs my ass that they gave hihacked relidion all these years

& don't follow Jesus teachings.

[dlk]

90. When you're a rabid dog...

They never believed in Jesus, only when it was convenient and fit their narrative.

[calimary]

137. THIS!!!

Maybe THIS will finally wake a few contrarians up.

So now they’re trying to convince us all the holy Scriptures and the four Evangelists (Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John) were wrong (or maybe just misinterpreted? They didn’t REALLY mean what many of us have been taught, in some cases, since pre-school (like me)? It was all a lie - that God is love, because you happen to believe in a punishing God?

This 14-years-in-Catholic-school female says NO!!! Better yet, SHOUTS it!!!

[dlk]

150. Amen to that!

n/t

[pansypoo53219]

203. beatitudes have been deleted too.

[calimary]

207. Why am I not surprised.

They want to push a punishing God on us all, when Jesus taught that God is loving and forgiving - like a Father should be.

[dlk]

225. Cruelty had replaced their belief in the common good

They have been brainwashed with hateful propaganda, to the detriment of us all.

[diverdownjt]

221. Trump has made them abandon their faith.....

Isn't that what the beast(666) would do to begin the ending of mankind?

I was raised as a christian but no longer believe in any of this, but I recall a few thing's that they believe in.
How can they not see what is happening directly to them?

Someone needs to check the orange buffoon's scalp and look for the mark.........just in case.

[Effete Snob]

227. "How can they not see what is happening directly to them?"

You know why.

Once you believe that you cannot be deceived or misled, that's exactly what you are ready for.

[azureblue]

183. it's the baptists, as always

And they have been rejecting Jesus's teachings since the days of slavery. I had the same reaction when an idiot was telling me how immigrants should be shot at the border, and I quoted Matthew 25:31- 46 to him.. "well, that doesn't work today."

[Zorro]

2. Woke Jesus isn't the real Jesus

[onetexan]

75. LOL if only the nimwits could actually comprehend what it means to be woke

sad but true.

[EYESORE 9001]

3. MAGAts want this guy

Rambo Christ

This could create a deeper divide than the Great Schism of 1054.

[William769]

5. ...

[mopinko]

8. and we thought buddy christ was bad.

[kimmylavin]

156. I'd take Buddy Christ in a heartbeat... nt

[LakeArenal]

12. That Jeebus isn't white enough.

[EYESORE 9001]

18. Dolph Lundgren wasn't available, apparently

[sanatanadharma]

6. Today's American evangelical christianity is the past's conversion by sword

Blood has always been part of Christian identity and rites.

[True Blue American]

19. Only in the OT!

Enlightened Christians follow the words of Christ about caring for the least of you.

[sanatanadharma]

26. True and they do not have the time nor ego to evangelize instead leaving all to the Lord

True and thus they do not have the time to evangelize instead of being humble before the Lord

[True Blue American]

170. Amen!

[Effete Snob]

31. Not for the better part of 2000 years

I'm not going to get into a "True Scotsman" argument with you, but Christianity has been around for quite a while and these "enlightened Christians" of whom you speak have not seemed to be very mainstream for most of the 2000 year history of this cult.

[True Blue American]

171. Enlightened Christians follow

The words of Christ in the New Testament. They do not follow the old. We believe in Christs teachings to take care of the least of us. That is the Covenant of the New. The old is gone.

[Effete Snob]

173. Okay, let's talk about Jesus' words in the New Testament

Jesus comes into town, tells a woman to get him water and then calls her a slut because she sleeps around.

Why couldn't Jesus get his own water?

[True Blue American]

176. Where did you get

That? Jesus told the prostitute to go and sin no more. She was forgiven..

[Effete Snob]

179. Oh, so she was a prostitute now, eh?

Where does the Bible say that?

First, he sits next to well, but is too lazy to get his own water:

4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?”

------

Something wrong with his arms and legs?

Continuing....

----

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”
----

So tell me, where does it say she was a prostitute?

Also, please cite the verse where it says she was forgiven?

Since you know so much about it, these should be easy questions, but I do not find them in my Bible.

[True Blue American]

185. Was he lying?

And asking her to get him a drink means he wa lazy? I notice you did not show the verse where he told her to do and sin more more. It is pretty clear you have no idea of the message of Christ and started with tour own words.

Why denigrate good, decent Christians who follow Christ?

[Effete Snob]

187. Where does it say she was a prostitute?

Where does it say she was a prostitute?

Where does it say she was forgiven?

For bonus points, explain how her sins were forgiven before Jesus died. Are you saying that Jesus had the power to simply forgive sins outright and that his death and resurrection were not necessary?

I'd urge you to gain some familiarity with the New Testament.

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

212. There is a story where Jesus told a woman to go and sin no more

but if my memory serves me right, it was where she was brought to him by the Pharisees. The Pharisees seemed like they always wanted to test Jesus and try to make him look bad. They accused the woman of adultery and asked Jesus what they should do and rather than answer, the Bible says that Jesus began to write on the ground. The Bible does not say what was written but one by one, the Pharisees left. I can't help but think that Jesus was writing down the sins they committed for all to see and they left in shame.
Finally, Jesus was left alone with the woman and when she asked him what she should do He told her to go and sin no more.

[yardwork]

43. Not during the Crusades, they didn't.

[Effete Snob]

58. Or subjugation of the New World

Or slavery.

Or eventually carrying out Martin Luther's suggestions on eradication of Jews in Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

[yardwork]

59. And so forth and so on...

[mountain grammy]

67. Yep!

Love thy neighbor as long as they're not Jews..

[SCantiGOP]

97. Don't forget that the tanks in the Blitzkrieg

Were full of true-believing Christians. They were assured that they were the “true” followers of Christ as they rode forth to slaughter the inferior races.

[NBachers]

128. Or in that film clip of that priest blessing the ravening hordes from Mussolini's balcony.

[Effete Snob]

133. Yep

It's weird when a tiny insignificant faction of liberal Christians of recent vintage think they are somehow the "real" ones, or representative of what Christianity has always been.

It's even funnier when "mainline" Protestants use the term "mainline" to suggest that liberal Protestants are somehow most representative of Christianity more broadly:



As between "evangelical" and "mainline" Protestants, the evangelicals have been more representative of Protestant Christians for quite a while now.

[soldierant]

168. Scripturally, that's true

Historically, not so much.

Charlemagne.
The Crusades.
The Inquisitions.
Witch trials.

It's sort of a "You can take the boy out of the neighborhood, but you can't take the neighborhood out of the boy" thing

Whatever it is that makes so many people believe that everyone must believe exactly what they believe is not going away any time soon, and they bring it with them to whatever philosophy or religion they embrace. Even if that is atheism. The sweetest, kindest person I have ever known is an atheist. But there are some out there who are pretty nasty.

Seriously. Don't blame it on the belief system. It's something else, something that happens across all belief systems

[MagickMuffin]

81. There's Power in the Blood, In the Blood of the Lamb

There is power power wonder working power in the blood of the lamb
There is power power wonder working power in the precious blood of lamb




We used to sing this in church when I attended as a child.

[temporary311]

157. You also engaged in ritual cannibalism,

assuming you did the wine/juice and cracker thing. Definitely one of the weirder aspects of Christianity, and thats before you factor in transubstantiation.

[WalkerinSC]

161. The Supper or Communion has been debated

ad nauseum. I know Catholics follow transubstantiation, maybe even Orthodox do. I will never understand how Jesus, who taught in Parables, Symbolism, and Stories for that one moment in time while using breaking of bread and wine as blood to symbolize his upcoming death, that was him being literal. It was symbolic that as you break the bread and drink the wine you remember and reflect on the sacrifice he made.

[stuck in the middle]

178. Please don't repeat that old trope

You also engaged in ritual cannibalism

My wife is not a cannibal. She’s just from a different culture than yours, that’s all.

Las Almas de los Violines Negros

repositorio.unicauca.edu.co:8080/bitstream/handle/123456789/134/Las%20almas%20de%20los%20violines%20negros.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

(page 143)

Es cierto que los procesos de colonización y evangelización marcaron la pauta dualista entre el bien y el mal, y este diablo es el acusador, el que controla, es el maligno; el Valle del Patía ha sido conocido históricamente como un territorio portador del mal. El Patía lugar escabroso, de negros, de abigeato, bajeza asociada al ejercicio de la fuerza, de la esgrima, del crimen y el trabajo forzoso en la minería. Recuerdo de niña que, en Popayán, ciertos adultos le decían a los niños cuando eran necios, traviesos, desobedientes y callejeros sin permiso de los padres, frases como: Si te portas mal, te come o te mata un negro del Patía. Epítetos como “negros”, “salvajes”, “infieles”, “sin alma” a lo largo de la colonia y hasta mediados del siglo XX, eran el mal para todo aquel que no estaba dentro de la norma establecida por la conducta moral del Estado-nación. Unos ‘irracionales’ -eran considerados los afros- en una racionalidad colonial, por su particular concepción y comportamiento distintos; posteriormente fueron declarados “apátridas” por no ser partícipes de las contiendas en la campaña libertadora comandada por Simón Bolívar, quien participa en una lucha libertadora en la que quienes comandaban eran los que habían sido sus amos antes de fugarse al haber sido esclavos.

(via ChatGPT)

It is true that the processes of colonization and evangelization set the dualistic pattern between good and evil, and this devil is the accuser, the one who controls, the evil one; the Patía Valley has historically been known as a territory bearing evil. Patía, a rugged place, associated with black people, cattle theft, lowliness linked to the exercise of force, fencing, crime, and forced labor in mining. I remember as a child in Popayán, certain adults would tell children phrases like: "If you behave badly, a black person from Patía will eat you or kill you." Epithets such as "blacks," "savages," "infidels," "soulless" throughout the colonial period and until the mid-20th century, represented evil for anyone who did not conform to the established moral conduct of the nation-state. The Afro-descendants were considered "irrational" in a colonial rationality due to their distinctive conception and behavior; later, they were declared "stateless" for not participating in the liberation campaign led by Simón Bolívar, who fought for freedom alongside those who had been their masters before they escaped from slavery.

Vídeo clip Esclavo de amor Son del Tuno

son del tuno-popayán

[Renew Deal]

209. Doesn't that presume that the people saying these things are fundies?

The "Jesus is woke" crowd aren't fundies. They are heretics (in clinical terms). These guys would have gotten the sword in the past.

[NoMoreRepugs]

7. Deplorable isn't it?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

94. Worship of the golden calf, that section they get!

What’s the American Catholics leadership position on the teachings of Jesus, woke?

[atreides1]

9. Okay

Then those people are no longer Christian...they likely never really were!

[malaise]

10. The Slobfather is their new gawd

Love it

[nattyice]

45. They did build a golden idol of him and had it on display.

[2naSalit]

106. Lest we forget!

[malaise]

119. Bwaaaaaaah

[Xavier Breath]

141. Ah yes, golden Big Boy/Jesus statue.

[NowISeetheLight]

205. Shades of Trump Magats

https://m.

&pp=ygUidGVuIGNvbW1hbmRtZW50cyBnb2xkZW4gY2FsZiBzY2VuZQ%3D%3D

[RobinA]

11. If True

it's about time they come out of the closet with their hypocrisy.

[stuck in the middle]

13. President Trump walks across Lafayette Park to St. John's Church

[halfulglas]

14. Pastors should ask when did they stop worshipping Jesus and turned to

Worshiping some strong man. Jesus is the one who stayed Peter's sword after he cut off the man's ear at Gethsemane. He told his disciples not to defend him. Evangelical Christianity is twisted.

[OneGrassRoot]

15. They finally dispose of the hypocrisy. We've always known this...

that the teachings of Jesus actually disgust them.

[roamer65]

16. Organized Fundamentalist Christianity is poison.

Jesus’s true teachings are being perverted by it.

[LiberalArkie]

72. Yes, but not usually by the Presbyterians or Methodists or Episcopalians or Lutheran or

many other mainstream denominations. It is usually the "Whole Bible" the "Holy Ghost" the "Speaking in tongues" churches who preach mainly the old testament and deny Jesus's teachings and instead preach the old testament or the New Testament starting at Acts.

[roamer65]

80. True. There are non-extremists.

I needed the word fundie in my declaration.

[Effete Snob]

108. A word about Martin Luther

I'm pretty sure Martin Luther had something to do with Lutherans, and with protestant denominations generally...

The Holocaust occurring in the country which was united by a common language that was standardized by publication of the Bible in German, was no coincidence. It was the program:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und iren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word anti-Judaic and antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther (1483–1546).

...

In the treatise, he argues that Jewish synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes burned, and property and money confiscated. Luther claimed they should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and "these poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also advocates their murder, writing "[W]e are at fault in not slaying them".

I'm curious to know, however, were there no actual "Presbyterians, Methodists or Lutherans" around for 400 years of slavery in this country?

Or were the religious such a tiny minority on this continent that they had no real influence during all that time?

Because I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of Scotch-Irish Presbyterians who brought that religion to this continent who most certainly owned slaves and otherwise supported the practice. The Episcopalians, of course, were simply Anglicans prior to the American Revolution, so I wonder who was in charge of all of those slave ships.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

95. Jesus was about the most woke man in history! How the hypocrisy doesn't kill them is amazing!

[Effete Snob]

111. If "woke" includes eternal punishment for various infractions

Jesus liked the Hell stuff. Aside from the parable of Lazarus the servant and the rich man, in which Jesus suggests that one of the treats of Heaven is that you can actually watch the people in Hell burn, there are these references, and others, straight from the source himself:

Matthew 25:41

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Matthew 18:8

“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

Mark 9:47-48

If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell

-------

What's really ironic is the liberal Christians going on about Trumperists "ignoring" the words of Jesus, which certainly include multiple references to tortuous eternal punishment of the naughty.

[colorado_ufo]

147. To that point, why aren't the trump-loving

evangelists concerned with this?

[Effete Snob]

152. That should be obvious

Didn't you read what Jesus said?

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones..."

The right wingers are fine.

[colorado_ufo]

163. Good one!

[Paladin]

17. Reap what you sow, assholes. (nt)

[Johnny2X2X]

20. GOP Jesus

[geardaddy]

42. An oldie, but a goody!

Thank you!

[Roland99]

21. It's not Christianity. Hasn't been for decades. It's a religion of hate and bigotry

[True Blue American]

25. Agree, 100%!

Although there are still good Christian’s.

[Effete Snob]

30. It's more in line with traditional Christianity

I'm sorry, but Christianity is much older than representative democracy.

Christianity has been the tool and handmaiden of every Western despot and murderer since Constantine the Great.

[MayReasonRule]

33. Yep! Well Said!!

[stuck in the middle]

52. They fought wars against their former masters.

You can see echoes of those wars in dance, today.

[mountain grammy]

65. Exactly!

[True Blue American]

172. The OT was written

Hundreds of years before Christ. True Christians follow the New Covenant, the NT!

[Effete Snob]

184. Yes, and?

It was not decided which of many various writings should be included in the New Testament until 325 AD. Prior to then, there were a lot of written works which various folks considered "holy", but there was no "New Testament" until hundreds of years after the alleged events in question.

The first constitutional democracy of note would not be until more than 1400 years after that. So, the "True Christians" managed to evade historical detection for quite a while until you showed up in this thread.

If I got into a time machine and landed anywhere between 325 AD and, say, 1700 AD, where would I be most likely to find these people?

Mind you, in general, most people could not read and outside of a very select few within the church, nobody had a copy of the New Testament.

So, when did these "True Christians" all get access to the New Testament? Because the god of the Bible certainly did an effective job of keeping anyone from having a copy for a good long time.

[True Blue American]

190. And what? I described what christians follow.

[Effete Snob]

191. Did Jesus believe the Old Testament?

Did Paul believe the Old Testament?

[CrispyQ]

22. Am I the only heathen enjoying a bit of schadenfreude with my morning coffee? -nt

[pandr32]

101. Fellow heathen here--right with you.

[sarisataka]

23. It takes some big huevos

Or stupendous stupidity to step up and say "God was wrong"

[brush]

24. Oh, boy. What trump has wrought. Is he our national comeuppance...

that we finally have to deal with as his maga followers, so-called Christians, don't even know the basic tenants of Christianity?

[NCjack]

55. They are members of "Club 666"

[Cosmocat]

93. LONG before he came down the escalator

I had so called christians who I have heard say shit like this when you put the actual words of the bible to them.

[Effete Snob]

27. They DROVE sane people out of their congregations

What fucking bullshit.

These are the congregations they built and nurtured.

Many years ago, as an impressionable teen, I was taken in by that nonsense for a few years. It was obvious what was going on and where they were headed when they lined up behind Ronald Reagan.

Russell Moore is a contender for the biggest fucking hypocrite on the planet. He was the cheerleader for this shit for decades.

[Bristlecone]

28. Next these pastors will be alarmed when their congregants ask them to create a woman for them

And hound them to their final days on a ship in the arctic.

[yardwork]

37. If I had to choose, I'd rather hang out with the Monster than these people.

[vlyons]

29. I have to laugh at this

As a Buddhist, I make a distinction between the doctrines of the established church about its intolerance, virgin birth, trinity, resurrection, and ascention of Jesus up to heaven, etc. -- versus the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount. There is a big difference between actually practicing Jesus' teachings and masquerading as a Christian in name only.

[Elessar Zappa]

91. I don't think there's anything wrong

with Christians literally believing in the virgin birth and resurrection but they should follow Jesus’s actual teachings more closely. There are a few quotes from Jesus that make me raise my eyebrows but for the most part he taught love and acceptance, the exact opposite of what fundies are practicing today.

[vlyons]

105. There's plenty wrong with those beliefs

They're impossible myths. A 3 day old corpse doesn't get up and start walking around. If Jesus was born of a virgin, where did he get his male chromosomes? Why haven't thousands of telescopes around the world ever been able to locate heaven? Impossible to walk on water. The established Christian church was an invention of the Romans. The trinity doctrine didn't even exist until 325 AD at the 1st Council of Nicea. There is no invisible sky god, who can suspend the laws of physics.

Some people still believe the earth is flat, but mere belief doesn't make it so. What makes things so is evidence, followed by reasoned analysis of what has been observed.

[Elessar Zappa]

110. If we go after those beliefs then we'll lose a big part of our base.

Most African-Americans are very religious and vote Democratic. And by the way, didn’t you say you’re Buddhist? Most Buddhists also have beliefs that don’t gel with science.

[Charlie Chapulin]

32. Weak Jesus

We want Barabbas!

[dembotoz]

40. welcome to du

i like the barabbas thing

[Collimator]

99. This may be a non-sequitur. . .

. . . But the name, "Barabbas" actually means, "Son of the Father". The "bar" part we are familar with from the Jewish tradition of Bar Mitzva, and "abbas" is Aramaic for father.

The Gospel scene in which the people are given a choice between releasing Jesus, the Son of God the Father, and Barabbas--Son of the Father--is one of the many, MANY reasons I regard the New Testament to be a stunning example of the game of Telephone, also called "Whisper Down the Lane."

There is a lot of inspiring content is both major portions of the Bible. However, they are and have always been human documents, written, studied and employed to human ends.

The caustic reactions of some modern-day church members to some of the nobler teachings of the Christian scriptures does not surprise me in the least.

Christianity IS in crisis. But, then again, it was formed in crisis and it will continue to mutate as it has across the centuries as it is used to meet cultural needs and preferences. I am convinced that it fall away from cultural dominance and become background noise in the Western world, just as the Greek mythology has.

[intheflow]

123. Agreed, but it's a shame none of us will probably see it happen in our lifetimes.

The reason I’m sure Jesus isn’t the Messiah is, if “Messiah” in the Hebrew Bible (“Old Testament”) meant a future savior for Jewish people, how can so many of his followers be antisemitic? Or even if you just take the straight Christian (appropriated) assumption that he’s a savior for everyone who believes in him, why would Christianity be the most splintered religion in the world? The mental gymnastics some Christians go through to justify their hatred and viciousness is nauseating.

[relayerbob]

34. These idiots are not Christians

They are at best anti-Christians.

[yardwork]

35. They're not Christians. They aren't following Jesus.

It's up to them to name whatever god they're following. (I call it Mean Jesus, Jesus's doppelgänger. The bible has some other names for false gods.)

[mwb970]

41. They made up a god just like themselves to worship.

[Effete Snob]

54. Oh yes they are

They are more representative of American Christianity and historical Christianity than the recently-invented "hippie Jesus".















There is no universe in which you are going to successfully argue these people are not Christians.

[mountain grammy]

74. Oh yes they are!!!

These are American Christians.. like 1930'S German Christians.. All Christians aren't murderers and perverts, but a whole lot of perverts and murderers are Christians..

[Effete Snob]

83. Germany was the home of the Protestant Reformation

Evangelical Christianity was the leading religion in Germany in the 1930s.

These days, revisionist Evangelicals hold up outlier voices like Dietrich Bonhoeffer as if he was somehow representative of Evangelical thought in 1930's Germany.

[mountain grammy]

89. They can pick and choose..

but the murderers were Christians.. Yes some spoke out and many helped Jews, but the Holocaust, and any genocide for that matter, doesn't happen without the devoted commitment of a huge mass of people and religion supplies them.

[True Blue American]

174. That was Martin Luther.

He broke from the Roman Catholic Church. My Fathers family were Lutheran.

[Effete Snob]

180. Yes, he wrote the Jew-killing manual

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare to Protestants and Protestant Christianity. Following the exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Protestants to carry out seven remedial actions, namely:

to burn down Jewish synagogues and schools and warn people against them
to refuse to let Jews own houses among Christians
to take away Jewish religious writings
to forbid rabbis from preaching
to offer no protection to Jews on highways
for usury to be prohibited and for all Jews' silver and gold to be removed, put aside for safekeeping, and given back to Jews who truly convert
to give young, strong Jews flail, axe, spade, and spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow

--------

The Germans eventually did as he instructed.

[True Blue American]

188. Have I said I was Lutheran?

[Effete Snob]

189. No, did I say you were a Lutheran?

You have a habit of seeing and hearing things which aren't there, don't you?

[True Blue American]

192. You are describing

Martin Luther. My posts are about Christ.. do you have a habit of reading words that are not there?

I am leaving now because the rules of this board is not to attack fellow Democrats. 3 of you just did!

[Effete Snob]

193. Martin Luther and Hitler are not Democrats

[2live is 2fly]

204. I wouldn't even waste my time with this know-it-all, you must've hurt his feefees earlier bc

whatever you say he's all about, "shit I've known that for 10 years" hey I know maybe its' Bob Seeger!

[stuck in the middle]

206. Been there, done that.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/122111651#post24

[Caliman73]

177. Yep. The other "good Christians" put him in a concentration camp and killed him.

This is the problem with religion as a concept. You have systems of control based on ancient mythology used to explain the world before the advent of the scientific method. It becomes an all encompassing identity to some, and a tool for power to others.

There are SO MANY interpretations of "sacred texts" and so many branches that split off because of disagreements which have all to frequently, turned deadly.

It is a completely emotional process yet it drives so many people's actions.

[Effete Snob]

195. Oh, funny irony....

I learned about Bonhoeffer by reading Russell Moore's magazine years ago.

Oh, the irony.

[stuck in the middle]

201. It's no surprise that...

…fundamentalists of various stripes support each other.

After all, they come from the same fundamentalist culture.

Being a fundamentalist yourself, of course you support other fundamentalists.

[Renew Deal]

211. It depends on what you mean by "American Christianity"

Because Catholics are still #1 in the US by far. The magat crowd is representative of an American version of Christianity that sits somewhere between the Handmaids Tale and The Purge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States#Self-reported_membership_statistics

[czarjak]

220. Jesus Slaves?

[flying_wahini]

36. I tell my evangelical family members that Trump is the antiChrist.

I think he is.

[Maru Kitteh]

51. They are both politicians. There is no antichrist except reality/science.

[Effete Snob]

60. One thing you might also mention

Is that if they actually bother to read it, the anti-christ doesn't come to mislead people who aren't believers in the first place.

[Mariana]

142. He doesn't fit the description of the antichrist.

The antichrist is supposed to be loved and worshiped by the whole world. Trump couldn't even get the majority of votes in the US.

[Torchlight]

159. We often use the phrase 'heresy bordering on apostasy'

when his names comes up in church. Works out pretty well too, as those who would get angry at the phrase are too busy furrowing their brows trying to figure out what words mean, and those who know the meaning pretty much already get it and agree.

[slightlv]

218. I once had an article that took it point by point

showing how much *rump demonstrated he was an anti-Christ. I wish I could find it again. I KNOW I saved it down to a hard drive. However, I can't remember which hard drive on which computer! One evening, I went through every file on my current PC, which includes backups of the last two computers, but still couldn't find it. If ever I find it, I swear I'll post it here. To say it was illuminating is an understatement. And, it was written by a religious organization, to boot. One thing to remember, when you save everything, you can never again find anything! (LOL)

[mwb970]

38. It is amazing to observe what religion does to people.

It ain't good.

[pandr32]

114. Religion is intended to control people.

Spirituality is an individual thing.
My spirituality is a quest to bring harmony into my life--a balance between what I need to do to get by and take care of others, and the rest and self-care I need to be well enough to keep on keepin' on.
I am an atheist.

[twodogsbarking]

39. Woke Jesus.

[dalton99a]

44. Jesus is Fake News. Trump is the real deal

[William769]

46. ...

[Charlie Chapulin]

48. Ho. Lee. Crap!

[Qutzupalotl]

112. Imagine that top one but with Biden's picture.

He's president, so therefore it must have been God's will.

Heads would explode.

[Maru Kitteh]

47. There is no Christianity that is not selective. Guy was all over the place, said

something to appeal to everyone. He was a master politician. Of course, the rewards for winning/penalties for losing were a bit different at the time.

[milestogo]

49. Jesus is the original "woke" guy.

He must have got his talking points from AOC and Bernie.

[Celerity]

169. except they'd never say believe in me, worship me or it's an eternity of hellish damnation & torture

[allegorical oracle]

50. Really?

"pastors have become alarmed that their Trump-loving congregants have become so militant that they are even rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ."

Just could be that those Christians never believed in Jesus to begin with. Otherwise they would've recognized djt for the evil that he is.

[AllyCat]

53. This is news? Their congregants have been rejecting the teachings of Jesus

for decades.

[dembotoz]

56. i have always feared this

live in red area and have been to too many events where folks stand up and say the darn-est
stuff

I stopped attending business networking events because my toleration of morons has fallen over the years and I am there to hopefully build my business not get called out as a woke commie employee of soros...Yes that is a quote......

pastors are employees of the church and will read the tea leaves and increase their militancy to agree with the folks who pay his bills

[Effete Snob]

57. Absolutely

And most of the pastors are happy to adapt.

If you want to find the most likely atheist in a Christian church on Sunday, look at the pulpit.

A LOT of them come late to the realization it's bullshit, but they aren't qualified for any other line of work. Paradoxically, they become very good at it, because once they quit actually believing it, they can focus their analytical intellect more on what sorts of things improve revenue.

[Moostache]

78. I did not get my Soros money...

Any advice on how to rectify that oversight? LOL

[dembotoz]

92. he must be richer than god...gop claims he funds everything

[Baitball Blogger]

61. It's like watching the congregation taking off their human skins and revealing their

reptilian true selves. At least they can see it the way we do. They do not follow Christ's teaching. They are not Christians.

[Artcatt]

62. Fake xtians, ever the persistent bathtub ring on America

[Scrivener7]

63. Gee Russell. Ya think?

Moore, who has been an outspoken critic of many evangelicals' embrace of Trump, argues that this has led him to conclude that American evangelical Christianity is now in crisis.

[MOMFUDSKI]

64. Glad to hear

the orange one is destroying the ghastly evangelicals. Everything he touches DIES.

[SledDriver]

66. If there is a hell we will both be surprised.

Me because it exists, and theists because they are damned by the rules they refused to follow.

[Old Crank]

68. Didn't matter to them

Just what kind of nasty hate spewing monster, what kind of sexual deviant, what kind of abject lying criminal they were if they just burbled anti abortion and in Jesus name. That made it okay for the leaders of christianity to suport them.

[ffr]

69. Is that so different than Muslim radicalization? Our own Christian Taliban, radicalized watching Fox

Thanks GOP!

[ToxMarz]

70. It's just that they've converted to another religion

They're the same flock of sheep they always were, just with a more horrific message to spread.

[Bayard]

71. Who knew Jesus was woke?

I would put these people in the same category as the Bible crowd that built a golden calf to worship (yes--this atheist was raised Southern Baptist.)

Forget Jesus, they probably love his dad that would smite the sinners with fire and brimstone.

[surfered]

73. Reap what you sow...

They knew Trump wasn't a Christian when the Pastors supported him, so they are now reaping what they sowed.

[Effete Snob]

118. They've sowed this for a long, long time

This harvest has been coming for at least forty years.

[hatrack]

76. Womp womp!

[Richard58]

77. It doesn't surprise me in the least.

A very large minority of Christians have gone off the deep end and are basically fascist. They have a new Messiah now and it is in the form of Donald J Trump. They almost worship this man. Despite the fact that he is anathema to everything that a good Christian should be. They no longer want the jewish, Socialist Jesus who talked about sharing and love for everyone. They want a militant Warrior who will crush their enemies and revel in their pain. They see Trump as that person. It's extremely disturbing but that is our reality now.

[Moostache]

82. Ain't no "almost worship' in this....its full on idolatry.

The right wing is nothing more than the Israelites at the foot of Mt. Sinai while Moses received the 10 Commandments.

[Effete Snob]

121. Gimme that old time religion...

"They no longer want the jewish, Socialist Jesus who talked about sharing and love for everyone. They want a militant Warrior who will crush their enemies and revel in their pain."

To be fair, Jewish, Socialist Jesus is the historical anomaly here. Pretty sure there wasn't a lot of that running around for most of the existence of Christianity, or Europe would probably have looked a whole lot different than it did from around the 4th through mid-20th Centuries.

[Martin68]

79. Better get used to it. We now have Trump-centric christians, whatever they are.

Certainly nothing to do with the New Testament.

[PortTack]

84. It really shouldn't surprise these pastors...unless they were just not paying attention

[mn9driver]

85. Nonstop Agitprop from waking to sleeping has that effect.

The billionaire right and their TV and radio network has made it OK for the monsters among us to slither out from under their rocks. The worst is yet to come.

[DFW]

86. They should have heeded the words of Goethe's Sorcerer's Apprentice

Die ich rief, die Geister
werd ich nun nicht los.

"The spirits I have summoned, I can no longer be rid of them."

[Pacifist Patriot]

87. Genie's out of that dysfunctional bottle.

[Upthevibe]

88. William769....

Thanks for the post.....

BTW - JESUS WAS WOKE, PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that'd make a find bumper sticker...

[Kennah]

96. Louis says

[malthaussen]

98. "Originalist" Constitutionalists, but the Gospel "doesn't work anymore."

That is some first-rate irony.

-- Mal

[OhioTim]

100. Is The Declaration Of Independence Next?

All men are created equal....

[dchill]

102. Pastor Moore had better start lifting weights...

...if he wants to be at the top of the Christian Party.

[Wild blueberry]

103. Cutting into their grift

Dumpy is a more practiced grifter.

[BlueIdaho]

104. Where the hell has this guy been?

This “news” is a decade or more late. I remember my mother in law describing this as the “First Church of the Mean God.”

She was right.

[WestMichRad]

107. If only this was a story from The Onion

Frightening that it isn’t.

[ecstatic]

210. I was expecting to see the Onion

In the link.

[lees1975]

109. This should not be a surprise. Trump's been hammering this for quite some time.

The Turning Point rallies have featured this theme ever since they got Don Junior to say that turning the other cheek was the reason that Christians had no place at the "worldly interest" table. I tend to think it is because Christianity doesn't teach worldly interests as a goal.

It is heresy, plain and simple, and the church in this country is fracturing as a result. People really are leaving these Trumpie thumping congregations in droves.

[Orrex]

113. Was that pastor cloistered in a monastery somewhere?

Trump has been their divine god-king for years! How can ol’ Russ have failed to see this?

And that’s just the rank and file kkkultists; the Qanon-faithful actually believe that Trump is a divine warrior sent to save us from baby-eating Liberal commie socialists.

[Effete Snob]

116. Denial

Moore has been editor in chief of Christianity Today - a leading publication among evangelicals and others in that spectrum - for a very long time. It was founded by Billy Graham:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_Today

I've checked the pulse of that publication for a long time... going back to the 80's. They absolutely nurtured this beast, and now act like they have no idea where it came from.

He's started to catch on, but his psychological defense mechanisms prevent him from understanding what fed this monster all this time.

[Orrex]

196. That definitely sounds on-brand

[TomWilm]

115. You can quote Jesus as a militant, or quote him as a pacifist ...

The pastors can claim Jesus always wanted to turn the other cheek. But if their congregants actually had read the Bible, they could contradict with the Christian Sword verses, where Jesus said: Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth:

“I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.“
Matthew 10:24-36

Brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
Matthew 10:21-23

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.”
— Gospel of Luke 22:36-38

Plenty to pick from. I prefer the pacifist Jesus, but know there are other versions...

[Effete Snob]

117. Yup

The irony here are the "Christians" upset that other "Christians" are "rejecting what Jesus said", when they all do it.

Even better are the ones that know there is a shitload of stuff Jesus said which is irreconcilable with their beliefs, so they'll go all Koine Greek to claim that in hundreds of years, nobody has managed to accurately translate problematic passages, or they will go with textual critical techniques to claim that problematic passages are interlineations.

The liberal ones will do that, anyway. The conservative nutbar ones can't question the text, but they will come up with some interpretations that would best the greatest yoga masters.

[intheflow]

132. That's not the full text of Luke 22:36-38, and it makes a difference.

In 22:38, Jesus literally regulates the number of swords the disciples at the Last Supper should have: two are sufficient - for all 12 of them!

Luke 22:36-38 (Source: BibleGateway.)
New International Version

36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’[a]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That’s enough!” he replied.

[TomWilm]

148. So Jesus is no pacifist, but set the rules for a well regulated militia ...

... which might be true, and are good news for those Trumpers, who do not like to turn the other cheek. Here are more cuttings from the Good Book:

He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.
Luke 19,16

Bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.
Luke 19,27

[Effete Snob]

164. Obviously, he had no problem with open carry

Continuing in Luke 22, those swords aren't just for show:

49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.

Not "that was uncalled for" but "no more", suggesting that one ear was just about right - and no rebuke for the use of violence by people who, unlike us, have been in the physical presence of Jesus and his direct teachings FAR MORE than we get third hand in the Bible.

So these guys were in a better position to understand his teaching than we would ever be. And - out came the swords for a first strike.

And, as far as the healing goes, it was a nice gesture, but doesn't make up for the trauma of having been attacked and having a body part painfully excised.

Jesus had fair warning they were going to do it - 'Lord, should we strike with our swords?' and could have acted more swiftly to prevent the injury in the first place. Dude could light a fig tree on fire at 50 yards, but couldn't stop someone swinging a sword? I'm not buying that for one red hot second.

[Ray Bruns]

222. Jesus replied, "Screw the swords and go buy some AR-15s with 100 round drum magazines!"

So sayeth the lord.

[Mariana]

145. If the Bible was clear about what it means to be a Christian

there wouldn't be thousands of denominations of Christianity, countless "nondenominational" and "independent" churches, and who knows how many individual practitioners with their own unique interpretations.

[Caliman73]

120. People in power or who want power, have always used systems to try to control people.

It is easier that way. Religion lends itself to that end with the very keys to "heaven" promised to those that follow, and eternal damnation to those who oppose.

Any system can be used. People have even tried to use Science to influence and control people, but the thing about science is that it is based on observation, testing, re-testing, re-testing, etc... to arrive at the most accurate conclusions. Like I said, people used science to try to classify and rate human beings as "better or less than" through phrenology, blood purity, etc... but those ideas fell out (at least within the science) of use because they were WRONG. We still have problems with how people us IQ testing and with some lingering wrong ideas about Black people in Medical Science, but science as a method of inquiry keeps moving toward understanding in the most comprehensive way, the world around us. Religion on the other hand, wants us to accept the pre-ordained "truth" without question.

There is NO WAY to prove or disprove religious claims. It is made up from fairytales passed on orally until written down, interpreted, re-interpreted, translated, re-translated, etc...

Why would you expect that people would have one idea of what Christ is like when there are hundreds of different religions each with their own subdivision of sects. Hell Christianity itself has divisions withing Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, and then the thousands of denominations within those branches. There would only be ONE Christian religion if there was an actual "truth" to it.

[Effete Snob]

125. +

[SleeplessinSoCal]

122. These Evangelicals are likely the same ilk that went after John Lennon

...for saying they were more popular than Jesus. It's a weird band of Christians we got here.

[Effete Snob]

130. You are more accurate than you know

The conservative branch of Presbyterians runs a college in Georgia, on the border with Tennessee.

This is the same church to which Dan Quayle, among other notable Republicans belongs.

John Lennon's assassin:


In 1971, Chapman became a born-again Presbyterian and distributed Biblical tracts. He met his first girlfriend, Jessica Blankenship, and began work as a summer camp counselor at the South DeKalb County, Georgia YMCA.

...

Chapman joined Blankenship as a student at Covenant College, an evangelical Presbyterian liberal arts college in Lookout Mountain, Georgia.

It's more than the "same ilk". It's the same people.

[Wicked Blue]

124. Christofascism on the rise

[mgardener]

126. What did they expect?

Another biblical phrase comes to mind...

A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up” (Galatians 6 –9

They supported Trump, praised him and now they are upset ?

[localroger]

127. Paging Dr. Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein to the ICU stat /nt

[tanyev]

129. Who needs Jesus when they've got The Golden Trump?

[Racygrandma]

131. Onwards Christian soldiers

marching off to war. Remember that one? We used to sing it in the Nazarene church when I was a kid.

[Native]

134. Trump is the Antichrist

[cstanleytech]

135. Churches only have themselves to blame for mixing religion with politics.

[Aristus]

136. What did they think was going to happen?

For forty years, the loudest mouths in the Christianist movement have all burbled that Christianity is all about getting rich, hating everyone you are told to hate, and then going to gilt-and-ivory Heaven.

It's a little late to say you've been had.

[Effete Snob]

139. +

[Mariana]

143. Really, it's profoundly dishonest for them to pretend to be surprised by this.

[keithbvadu2]

138. Their strong Messiah

[keithbvadu2]

140. 'following Jesus' command to 'turn the other cheek' has 'gotten us nothing''

Donald Trump Jr. tells young conservatives that following Jesus’ command to ‘turn the other cheek’ has ‘gotten us nothing’

https://baptistnews.com/article/donald-trump-jr-tells-young-conservatives-that-following-jesus-command-to-turn-the-other-cheek-has-gotten-us-nothing/#.Y0SyKEzMLyQ

[Martin Eden]

144. Trump humping "Christians" reject the teachings of Jesus Christ??!!!

In other news, water is wet.

[The Grand Illuminist]

146. It only gets worse from here.

nt

[republianmushroom]

149. It's taken them this long to realize that.

6 years darn they are dumb.

[GoCubsGo]

151. These are the same people who believe God makes people rich because he loves them more.

No big shocker that they are shitting on their Jesus here, too.

[Beartracks]

153. Pastors are only just now noticing the Christianity-Republican disconnect??

==========

[Beartracks]

154. Pastors are only just now noticing the Christianity-Republican disconnect??

==========

[TexasBushwhacker]

155. The don't read the Bible

They carry it around. They have bookmarks where their pastor tells them to put them. But read it; actually read it cover to cover?

As for the pastors who are "shocked" by parishioners speak against the teachings of Jesus, do they them"get the hell out of this church"? Probably not, as long as they're donating their money. Follow the money, always.

[GoodRaisin]

158. Uh huh. If your congregation sleeps with dogs you all get fleas. nt

[Initech]

160. Holy shit, these idiots are even stupider and more deranged than I thought.

Turn off the 24/7 hate propaganda and think for yourselves, losers.

[SamKnause]

162. It is a combination of the Prosperity Gospel and Dominionism.

[drmeow]

165. "this has led him to conclude that American evangelical Christianity is now in crisis"

Now? How about has been in crisis for a few decades?

[Hestia]

166. *yawn* move along, nothing new to see here, SSDD

[AllaN01Bear]

167. you guys created this monster.

[anarch]

175. maybe they need to switch to worshipping Crom, like Conan the Barbarian

you know, instead of "turning the other cheek" they can have their preachers go on about how good it is to "crush your enemies, and see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women"

[KentuckyWoman]

181. Russell is finally seeing

Many of us saw this coming decades ago. I have been calling them Talibornagain at least since 2002.

[honest.abe]

182. I have a feeling legitimate Republican Christians are going to dump Trump very soon.

Not sure who that might be but I think they have had it with Trump.

[durablend]

223. Who are these "legitimate Republican Christians" you speak of?

[honest.abe]

224. The ones who are not criticizing Jesus for being weak.

[MistakenLamb]

186. I guess Trump is the antichrist

By the most literal interpretation of the word

[Effete Snob]

194. That's the remarkable paradox, innit?

Trump almost makes you think the Bible might be true, because John certainly did nail down how the church would react to the antichrist, and what his attributes would be.

[Grokenstein]

199. I always say there's a reason dim donnie shares initials and letter counts

with Damien Thorn

[Effete Snob]

202. Whoa

[Best_man23]

197. Maybe they need to rewrite the Ten Commandments

Because the old ones given by the Lord are, like his son Jesus are old, weak, and don't work any more.

Perhaps a start:

Thou shalt have no other gods before Trump.

“Thou shalt not take the name of Trump in vain.

[mamacita75]

198. Heads up

I am a PK. Preacher's kid.

Organized religion is a business.

[stuck in the middle]

200. Ha! I knew an MK in grad school.

Last edited Wed Aug 9, 2023, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)

A visiting prof. (Minister’s Kid…or was is Missionary Kid? Either way, I’m pretty sure that it’s the same thing as a PK.)

[Renew Deal]

208. The Bible doesn't work anymore?

That pretty much makes you a non-christian.

[ewcordon]

213. Multiple Pastors, no way

That's a B.S. story.

[William769]

214. Care to explain how you know this

Jesus, is that you?

[Effete Snob]

226. The telling has a "based on a true story" feel

Russell Moore has been deeply engaged in preparing fertile soil for the Trump weed to grow in the body of believers in which he is a leader. Of late, he has been doing this ridiculous act of, "Oh my, the people I've been working to incite for years have gotten uppity" in order to sell his book and this, in my opinion, has more to do with politics within the Southern Baptist Convention hierarchy and his position in it, than anything else.

He's trying to get ahead of what he believes is a change in the wind, so that it will blow his ship further along.

Preachers of his ilk always have these "first-hand stories" of what people tell them.

Why, just the other day a wealthy and influential lady - I'm sure many of you know her - came up to me in private and said, "Pastor Snob, my husband is cheating on me and I don't know what to do, and I told her that she needs to stop worrying about her husband's affair with some harlot, work on her affair with Jesus, and her husband will be so jealous he'll come running back! Can I get a Hallelujah?"

Engagement with politics, in general, hurts churches because it inevitably drives some people away. Sometimes churches unavoidably run into divisive problems when they have to decide whether they are, or are not, going to tolerate things like women preachers, gay members, divorced and remarried members, etc..

But needlessly identifying with particular parties or candidates drives down revenue.

He would like to advance in the SBC hierarchy, but he wants there to be some money left in the till when he gets his hands on it. Don't mistake this viper for an ally.

Give generously.

[Seinan Sensei]

215. Want to see a Right-Winger's head explode?

Read them the end of Acts 2 and the end of Acts 4

Early Christians held all things in common
They took care of each other.
Their marching-orders?
from each according to ability
to each according to need

Where do you think Marx got his slogan?
I think he got it from the New Testament Book of Acts

[C Moon]

216. Most of them came for the water to be turned into wine.

[hadEnuf]

217. 'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak.'"

Just more proof that these types of so-called Christians are complete phonies.

They fake their so-called devotion to religion in order to gain power and then use religion as a weapon. That's what terrorists do.

These people are beneath contempt.

[Solly Mack]

219. They're just now noticing? Serious question.

Because every single time the GOP attacked/cut/gutted programs that helped those in need, it was actively going against their Christian religion.

And they've been doing that for decades.

And that's just one example of their actions and words not being in-line with the teachings of Jesus. The hallmark of what makes a Christian - belief in Jesus as the Messiah and living by his words. They've been missing the mark for many, many years. And it's not because of their often-used bullshit defense that everyone is a sinner and falls short - because they intentionally do it and they intentionally keep doing, and they claim they do it because of their religion.

So, seriously, they are just now noticing?

[Handler]

228. This made me chuckle a bit.