'My colleagues and I are still in shock.' 32 majors marked for elimination at WVU

[Nevilledog]

https://westvirginiawatch.com/2023/08/11/my-colleagues-and-i-are-still-in-shock-32-majors-marked-for-elimination-at-wvu/

West Virginia University leaders have recommended discontinuing 32 of its majors at its Morgantown campus as the school is feverishly working to make up for a multi-million budget shortfall.

The preliminary recommendations, released Friday afternoon, said 12 of those programs are undergraduate majors and 20 are graduate-level majors. Other programs were told to reduce their faculty size — 169 faculty jobs are on the line for cuts.

Programs marked for discontinuation included: master’s and doctorate in Mathematics; master’s and doctorate in Higher Education Administration; master’s of Public Administration; master’s of fine arts in Creative Writing; and a bachelor’s in Recreation, Parks and Tourism Resources.

The Department of World Languages, Literatures and Linguistics, which includes Spanish, Russian and Chinese studies, was marked to be completely dissolved.

“My colleagues and I are still in shock; it’s inconceivable that our state flagship, R1, land-grant university, the place where we’ve all built our homes, careers and lives is completely eliminating the teaching of languages,” said Lisa Di Bartolomeo, a teaching professor of Russian Studies.

*snip*

[WhiteTara]

1. Everyone needs to speak Amurikin

[Mysterian]

2. But the republican super-majority in the WV legislature is hard at work for the people

They just passed a sales tax exemption for private jets.

[Sancho]

3. Florida has piles of money, but they are eliminating programs and colleges because they are "woke"

...the US has gone nuts.

[Dave says]

16. I agree with that

America has gone nuts.

[elleng]

4. Sorry to hear this (generally.)

Daughter attended WVU, in Education.

[Buns_of_Fire]

5. Maybe the "leaders" figure that an MFA in Creative Writing

is no longer necessary now that we've uncorked the AI genie. And Public Administration? All they need to know is who to give kickbacks to and how much.

Educating a whole new generation of Tommy Tubervilles.

[DFW]

6. Aha! So the legend is true after all!

As a kid, we used to hear the story of a West Virginia hillbilly who proudly sent his son off to be the first in the family to attend college. At the end of the first semester, the boy came home, and his father asked, "well, son, what all did you learn at that fancy dancy college of yours?"

The boy proudly answered, "well, we learned about π r²"

The old man flew into a rage and yelled, "you ain't goin' back to THAT stupid school!! Even out here in the hills, everyone knows that pie are round, and cornbread are square!"

[Hugin]

11. That are so WRONG!

I are eaten pie shaped cornbread many times.

[erronis]

15. Wow - what a quick and perfect response! Those pans make the best cordbread.

[Hugin]

18. I agree.

Last edited Sun Aug 13, 2023, 07:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Golden brown and delicious on four sides.

[nolabear]

40. Boy do I want one of those!

Crispy all the way around! 🥰

[viva la]

7. Weird-some of those are quite cheap--

MFA just requires the professors and classroom space, for example.
No labs, no tech.

I've worked in higher ed (in a lower role, lol) for decades, and the "admin" side has exploded. We joke that where there used to be one dean in charge and his secretary doing all the work, now there are two deans, four assistant deans, and each will have 5-6 administrative assistants.
Most do some work, but a lot of it doesn't seem all that connected to the job of educating students, like a whole department of 'faculty communications' which seemed to be mostly about sending out press releases to and for professors.

Cutting out entire academic departments seems to be a more drastic approach than cutting a layer of administration in every department.

But meanwhile, tuition goes up year after year. Where's the money going? (Hint-- celebrity professors and buildings with all the tech. And of course stadiums.)

[Hekate]

8. This is a crime

[WVGal1963]

9. So so tragic....

Senseless… - - we can and must do better! It’s the only thing I can hang my hat on as I sit here shaking my head.

[chowmama]

10. I've been saying for a couple of decades

that eventually there'll be nothing left but Business and all sports. If the institution is big enough, add Law and Medicine.

Even the state institutions are now essentially, if not officially, for profit. If it doesn't make a buck, it isn't worth snot and will be on the chopping block. Sports makes the boosters donate and everything else sinks or swims on how much they bring in.

Culture, philosophy, art? Fuggetaboutit.

[EndlessWire]

12. But, Geez, they got rid of MATH?? n/t

[swong19104]

29. Think of it this way...

if you have any interest in getting a graduate degree in math, there are plenty of much better universities to go to, to get your MA/MS or PhD in math. There is not such a deluge of graduate math students that the existing universities cannot handle accepting yet another student.

A person with a PhD in math is still pretty much slated to continue on in academia. Having "PhD, mathematics from UCLA" is going to open more doors than "PhD, mathematics from WVU". Although, at that level, it's really word of mouth by one's advisor and other math profs. In other words, other universities don't care where you got your PhD from. They'll know from your advisor and your thesis whether you're a good catch for their department or not.

[JHB]

62. Not necessarily. Wall Street employs plenty of math degree graduates

Someone has to make the algorithms to optimize trading software to better than competitors.

[swong19104]

63. WS gets plenty of math folks

who drop out of the PhD program. Those with a PhD rarely (not zero, of course) go work at Wall Street. Plenty who have a masters or just a BA/BS.

A masters in math is usually the consolation prize for not getting the PhD. Most graduate programs in math don't offer a distinct masters program track, although some have recently moved to add masters track to their departmental programs.

[orthoclad]

34. Only at the grad level

Could be dangerous -- they might learn to think, rather than be just good worker drones. But they still need to teach undergrad math for a lot of mine and pipeline jobs.

[Ms. Toad]

39. Only at the graduate level.

Mine also got rid of it at the bachelor's level.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

13. Fire the administrators first

then stop spending funds on "lifestyle" projects.

...and yes, downsize the departments that don't lead directly to a career.

As a chemical engineer at Ohio State, I enjoyed the sociology classes, women studies, etc. In fact, OSU required more credit hours to graduate for my major because they didn't want STEM to be without the liberal arts. (as an aside, they would let liberal arts majors to graduate without knowing high school algebra).

But those added requirements forced a well rounded education and really we invaluable. As a major, those classes could not help at all in getting a career going for most students after paying $100,000+ for that paper.

[AZLD4Candidate]

43. That will never happen, just like slashing athletic budgets won't.

Universities are just like regular schools. . .it falls on the shoulders of classroom educators first.

Leadership protects itself in times like this while throwing classroom educators under the bus.

Why not just make universities what we've turned high schools into. . .places for job training rather than education?

[Iris]

14. Tbh - I'm not sad to see the higher Ed degrees go

Those majors are helping to destroy higher Ed as we know it.

And when you run it like a business, this is what happens

[erronis]

17. Maybe moreso - the MBAs. They are the bane (Baine) of capitalism.

Of course the JDs are in the same bottom tier.

Gimme math, science, medicine, philosophy (not psychology), childhood education, engineering (all of them.)

[Maru Kitteh]

67. Not psychology? Because too many people have an educated understanding

of mental health? How long has it been since you took the course?

Philosophy might have been mildly amusing were it not for the sexist prig instructor drunk on his imaginary relevance, but it’s certainly never helped me help anyone else.

[3825-87867]

19. Maybe we need more AI in...

Congress? Especially the House? Think of all the money we could save!
Goodness kow there isn't much "I" in the House right now!
AI Politicians just begs for institutionalization!

This could be fun!

[ALBliberal]

20. Students with higher intellect (and means whether financial aid or otherwise) won't be interested

in attending. It’s a big loss to the community and the state. And honestly to American Society as a whole.

Crying shame. And probably just the tip of the iceberg for these types of decisions.

[Warpy]

27. Kids born to wealth are already leaving

as they do in most states that aren't CA or MA, maybe NY and PA.

I think a lot of kids are shying away from 4 year programs, especially the ones requiring grad school, because they're looking at the massive debt loads they'd have to assume to get through them.

I agree that this is the tip of the iceberg as smart kids without family money opt for 2 year programs that will pay the bills, pursuing a 4 year degree later on and part time. Most colleges are going to have to make tough choices about which programs to keep and which are done better by other in state schools.

(Don't flame me about schools in your state with superb programs, there are a few things here in NM that stack up well against anything out of state, they just don't come with famous names, which is why moneyed kids go elsewhere)

[ALBliberal]

31. I live in Albuquerque I'm a grad of UNM.

I think my DU name has some thinking I’m from Alabama.

Personally I had no choice but in state college and I was from a small NM town and earned a scholarship and had financial aid. And I worked. I consider myself lucky that I had choices and my parents emphasized a good education as a way to break a cycle of poverty.

I think kids should have lots of choices for advanced education whether it’s a two year technical degree or a four year college degree.

I guess this story makes me sad because it shows that the kids of WV as well as adult learners simply won’t have as many choices going forward.

And I think it can and will result in the State of WV being further impoverished.

Just my thoughts. Oh and I love NM. Originally from TX and I think the best thing my parents ever did for us as a very poor family was move us to NM.

[Warpy]

49. I moved out here from Boston

and, while I can't say I never looked back, I know I'd never go back, and I loved Boston.

The state has some jewels, like the Institute of Mining and Technology. I'd stack the life sciences programs at UNM against others, anywhere. The local U isolated hantavirus far ahead of the CDC. Until the cluster of cases here, no one had thought any form of hantavirus existed in N. America. Now we know it's rare but widely disseminated.

So I know these places and programs exist. Money follows money and for wealthy kids to make contacts to make them even wealthier, it takes networking at a big name school that draws other wealthy kids. It's why Bill Gates went off to Harvard. It wasn't a superior education, it was for the superior connections.

That's really the bottom line and why people in WV with the money are going to send their kids out of state.

[womanofthehills]

54. Fellow UNM grad here - came from NJ as a transfer student

Many yrs ago. I was able to do work study to pay most of my tuition. A friend of mine decided to go back to UNM in her mid 50 ‘s a few yrs ago for her bachelors & masters and she has over $30 thousand in student dept.

I came out to UNM with 4 friends (we were classmates in NY - we followed a beloved professor out here) - as soon as we all graduated, they all went back east but I loved NM too much to leave.

I lived in Albuquerque’s south valley for yrs but the last 20 yrs been living in the high desert foothills of the Manzano Mts in the middle of the state.

[ALBliberal]

58. Nice to hear both of your stories.

Grew up in Silver City. Sweet little town. We are up in the foothills now. The culture and climate keep us here. Can’t think of any place I would rather live than NM. We spend a good deal of time in Jemez Springs lately since my husband retired from UNM. Gorgeous.

[deurbano]

21. So they not require a non-English world language as a breadth requirement for an undergraduate

degree?

[Iris]

77. I work at a public regional comprehensive university and there are no undergrad degrees that require

Classes in another language

[deurbano]

82. Do they need a world language for admissions?

In the CA State Universities and UCs, students are required to have the equivalent of the second semester of a college language class for college graduation, but can fulfill it with high school classes or a high enough grade on an AP exam.

[BunnyMcGee]

22. Brought to you by the new...

Know Nothing Party!

[carpetbagger]

23. Sad to see the nuking of a decent poor state public sector.

I was on faculty at the WVU School of Medicine with Lisa Di Bartolomeo's father.

[hay rick]

24. Keeping the taxes low, hooray!

My younger brother went to WVU (we lived in state at the time) for 2 years before transferring to Georgia Tech to finish his engineering degree.

[swong19104]

25. What are the remaining majors?

Coal digging? Fracking? Carbon Emitting?

[NBachers]

28. Casino and Voting Machine Rigging

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

45. Really?

WVU is a good school

[xocetaceans]

26. "Neal Brown is in his fifth year as the head coach at West Virginia."

Neal Brown’s West Virginia Contract: What’s Neal Brown’s Buyout if Fired?

West Virginia athletics director Shane Lyons was fired in November 2022 because of “the football situation,” Lyons said two weeks after his dismissal.

“The football situation” was, more specifically, a two-year contract extension signed by head coach Neal Brown in April 2021.

The extension might be the only reason Lyons was fired after a five-win 2022 season — the program’s fourth straight season with six or fewer wins, all under Brown — and Brown survived the college football hot seat.

...

His salary for 2023 is $4 million — up from $3.5 million in 2022 — and increases by $1 million in each of the next two years before a $2-million raise in 2026:

...

https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/college-football/neal-browns-contract-buyout-west-virginia-bm01/

It looks like the football coach is set to "earn" about $16.7 million from 2023-2026, and he apparently (according to the article) is under contract until 2026. Further, it seems that they are set to give him a raise of $2 million after 2026 if they give him a new contract.

How many linguists, English professors, and mathematicians could be employed by trimming the fat from the football program or perhaps by simply eliminating the football team? What is a university's purpose after all--the education of students and scholars or the fielding a football team?

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

46. Exactly

Put caps on the damned sports, and all of a sudden, there's money to be had.

[Aussie105]

47. What is a university's purpose after all--

The answer to that question is crystal clear.

Sport vs education - Sport always wins.

[xocetaceans]

50. It's ironic that even in losing, it wins. Brown has a record of 22-25 for his years at WVU. It . . .

. . . must be an interesting experience to fail hard at one's profession and yet be paid handsomely for it.

[Doc Sportello]

55. Athletics at WVU are self-supporting so these numbers don't apply

Athletics revenue - mostly from football - pays for all sports teams at WVU. Cutting the "fat" or a coach's salalry wouldn't affect the other parts of the university. In fact, eliminating football would also eliminate most every other sport, without aiding educational goals.

[xocetaceans]

61. Ok. Then, charge the teams for a right to use the WVU facilities, name, etc. and align that with...

...whatever educational goals are going unmet. Or add a surcharge to the ticket sales, merchandise, etc.

[Doc Sportello]

69. Wouldn't come close to the needs

I think it's ridiculous that a state isn't funding its flagship college like it should, but a lot of people on here are uninformed about college athletics. At the bigger schools, many if not most athletic programs are self-funded. Exorbitant coaches salaries come from donors, not the schools.

It's an easy target here because many of the posters don't like athletics or think there is too much of a focus on them in this society. Which is true but I don't think we should punish those who do benefit from the programs - like male and female athletes from a wide variety of sports who couldn't otherwise afford college - in departments that are self-supporting.

[xocetaceans]

73. I can see your point.

Why do you think that state colleges are not being adequately funded? It might be that the general public sees those universities simply as party schools or as four-year vacation spots for budding "elites" or as something akin to what is portrayed in Animal House. Filter that through conservative legislatures and their associated misconceptions about college education, and I think we end up somewhere near the current situation.

The tight connection between universities and sports in this country might foster those uninformed attitudes. This does not even address whether student/athletes are treated fairly. That is an entirely separate discussion.

Also, this does not even address how higher education should be approached in this country, but achieving a system like in Germany seems to only lie in the distant future if even then.

[Doc Sportello]

74. Spot on

Your opening paragraph summed it up well for a large number of legacy students whose parents want them to follow in their own partying ways and approach to college that is best described as a technical school education. As one petroleum engineering major put it to our sociology professor one day: "this stuff is useless." They don't get the idea everyone from our founding fathers on down had that a broad education was essential to a functioning democracy. And, you are right, sports play a role in the demeaning of higher education by these people.

[treestar]

80. there could be talented athletes

that could not get into college.

Why do we use colleges as minor leagues?

[Doc Sportello]

81. It's the way the systems developed

Pro leagues like it because the colleges do development they don't have to. The NBA now has the G league where players can go there and play professionally right from high school. In Europe they have club teams, which they used to have here in basketball many years ago. Some players aren't meant for college but it's not that hard to get into junior college and then four-year schools if they really want to.

[Elessar Zappa]

56. Eliminating football wouldn't help.

It would just piss off alumni and they’ll cease donating.

[Evolve Dammit]

30. This is just plain stupid for WV. Or planned to eliminate all critical thinking or diversity??

[orthoclad]

53. Turning out powerless worker bees.

[Evolve Dammit]

72. As Carlin said: They want obedient workers. Just smart enough to run the machines." n/t

[orthoclad]

75. Well put, but I'd say "just EDUCATED enough",

because I knew a lot of very smart people in blue collar. They just weren't on the education track, often minorities.

[orthoclad]

32. Vocational school for the ruling class's workers

Who needs language or graduate-level math to work in a mine? Including engineering, instrumentation and control, and other "technical" vocations. This is the new proletariat. It's not a "career"; it's a "trade".

The spawn of the rich don't go to State U. They'll buy a "name" diploma that gets them a seat in the executive suite, while they enjoy the frat-boy lifestyle. They get a "career", complete with golden parachutes.

The notion of higher education used to be to make a person broader and richer, not the equivalent of a welder. For decades, majors in teaching and the humanities have suffered because the squeeze is on: no one can afford to make a living (and pay off outrageous debt) with a degree in literature or languages.

This is not an accident or "the invisible hand of the market". It's been planned since at least 1971. The idea is to create a caste system in the US. Only "fortunate sons" (thank you CCR) get ahead of the pack.

I say this as someone with blue collar and State U. credentials.

edit: the provost said this gutting will allow the University to be releant to "today's students".

[oldsoftie]

42. Hey, tech school is a great option for many well paying jobs. College isnt for all

And it shouldn't be pushed on kids like when I was in school. Tech jobs are plentiful & most are well paid positions.
Of course some jobs REQUIRE a degree, but even many of those take too long. When my stepdaughter graduated with her Dr of Pharmacy, she said she could have cut 1-2 yrs off her college career, still got the required knowledge and saved 10s of 1000s of student debt
I never went to college because I knew I'd be wasting my parents money. So I had to become successful with a tech school & military technical education.
I retired at 53 with no personal debt and I feel pretty lucky.

[orthoclad]

52. Nobody is pushing college on kids

WVU is NOT ALLOWING kids - poor kids in a desperately poor state - to take majors of their choice.

Certainly, bare survival, in terms of food, clothing, and shelter, is the first step. Even this first step is becoming impossible for some. Look at the homeless stats. I remember when a grade school education could buy a family (not just an individual) a home and a country cottage. Now, someone is lucky if they can afford a house by the time they're 40, and very few families try to live on one income (unless Daddy is in the executive suite). A bachelor's might be equivalent to a GED now.

We need broadly-educated citizens, capable of critical thinking. By channeling the entire student body into 21st century voc school, we guarantee a caste system in this country, where the important decisions are all made by inherited wealth.

I worked with my hands for many years. Carl Sagan pointed out that in the flower of ancient Greek civilization, people were expected to work with hands AND brains. We need to respect all work, and not make workers be desperate to survive paycheck to paycheck, i.e., "today's students", according to WVU.

[oldsoftie]

66. "bachelors might be equivalent to a GED now". YES. & THAT is a major part of the problem

Thats corporate nonsense. There's NO good reason for it. In my state they changed the requirements for being a real estate appraiser; now you're required to have a bachelors degree. In real estate? No, it could be in ANYTHING. Totally ridiculous. There are many examples of this; making people have degrees that aren't needed. On a nearby govt installation I've seen people be put into upper management because they've got a degree but zero knowledge of THE JOB; picked over people who've DONE the job for years but dont have a degree. The result is a degradation of production. And this is Defense Dept work. Experience should count just as much as a degree. Or more.

[ZonkerHarris]

33. red states gettin' dummer every day

[FakeNoose]

35. How many administration jobs were lost, as opposed to faculty jobs?

Probably none, or much lower percentage. The problem with America's colleges and universities - and one of the biggest reasons why tuitions have skyrocketed in recent years - is the soaring costs associated with admin personnel hiring.

Do they really think that fulltime students want to be instructed by ChatGPT bots? Because that's what it's coming to.

[Solly Mack]

36. :(

[SpankMe]

37. Some math seems funny, here

Total enrollment at WVU is about 29,000 (source: Google "total enrolment at West Virginia University" ). WVU says that the cuts will "affect" 434 students total (147 undergrad + 287 grad). (Source: referenced article.)

So, 434/29,000 equals 1.4% of the students are affected.

Total faculty at WVU is 1463 (source: Google: "total faculty at West Virginia University" ). WVU says 169 faculty positions are on the line for cuts (source: referenced article).

169/1463 is about 15% of the total faculty.

You can cut 15% of faculty and "affect" only 1.5% of a student body approaching 30,000? This sounds like a pretty poorly run institution.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

48. That's the point across ALL universities

Way heavy on admin that finally needs to be gotten rid of.

[Ms. Toad]

38. At least they didn't eliminate bachelor's degrees in Mathematics and Physics -

As mine did a few years ago.

No entity should be able to call itself a University if it doesn't offer degrees in the core subjects.

[WalkerinSC]

41. What will the football team 'student' athletes

Take if the Bachelors in Parks, Tourism, and Recreation goes away? I guess they still have Sociology and Undecided.

[Hortensis]

44. Deliberately underfunded. WV's anti-Democratic voters chose this direction.

With the coal industry ending and WV bearing so much of the national costs, in 2016 HRC and Democrats campaigned on bringing very large-scale New Deal-scale investment to replace coal jobs with far better new ones and develop this beautiful state for a prosperous and dynamic future. A future that would enable to young generations to stay, instead of being forced to leave.

Red WV chose continued decline. Proudly. And spitefully in too many cases, as we know. And now increasing numbers will be forced to pursue the higher education of their choice elsewhere.

The tragedy continues. It didn't have to be this way.

[orleans]

51. sounds like the U doesn't want to be a U anymore

maybe they could just open up a little grocery, or a coffee shop where people can come in, sit down, and talk about what a great idea it was to close that useless U that couldn't be bothered teaching

[msongs]

57. do they still offer coal digging, mining where they cut the top off of mts? nt

[mahina]

59. This may cost them accreditation.

Typical- slash the funding, then shut down programs for lack of funding. I am so sorry to read this. It is a theft. Hope it may be stopped.

[Greybnk48]

60. So they will not offer a B.A. at all? n/t

[Yavin4]

64. Well, Joe Manchin is your senator.

And Republicans hold all other offices.

Elections have consequences.

[Efilroft Sul]

65. NCAA Division I schools are football programs with side hustles in education.

[former9thward]

78. Like Division I Stanford and Cal-Berkeley?

Yeah, just side hustles in education.

[Efilroft Sul]

79. Yeah, so let's talk salaries.

Stanford's football coach Troy Taylor makes an estimated $2.4 million per year. Berkley's football coach Justin Wilcox makes $1.9 million per year. If top faculty researchers aren't making a tenth of that, and if graduate assistants and adjunct faculty are living on peanuts, then both schools have side hustles in education.

[róisín_dubh]

68. Thanks for posting...

those are my friends and former colleagues being fucked over (particularly in World Languages and English). I left that cesspool in December, partly seeing the writing on the wall over the past couple years (cutting funding for research and conference travel, essential for my work given that I study foreign countries). It was also partly that after 10 years, I never felt home or comfortable in WV and had a really hard time adjusting to life there every time I left the state for any length of time.

I ended my career on my own terms. My colleagues' careers will be ended by a corrupt cabal of fools and their consulting firm who gave them the results they wanted. And before anyone asks, humanities professorships aren't exactly numerous anymore.

[Botany]

70. Welcome to "Republican World" 2023 and living in Dumb Fuck Is Stan W.V..

Education and new green energy and businesses is the path to helping everybody in the state BTW
you can thank Joe Manchin's daughter for pulling a multi million dollar drug manufacturing business
out of Morgan Town, W.V..

[Botany]

71. fucking madness

" ... they are dropping a bachelor’s in Recreation, Parks and Tourism Resources."

Recreation, Parks and Tourism Resources. These are well paying green industries in
the State of W.V. and a solid economic base too.

[Sympthsical]

76. Fire half the administrators

I bet somehow - rather mysteriously! - everything would still get done.