Donald Trump's real conspiracy: It's much larger than even Fani Willis imagines

[marmar]

Donald Trump's real conspiracy: It's much larger than even Fani Willis imagines
Trump's Georgia indictment is impressive in scale. His conspiracy to end democracy is a lot bigger than that

By KIRK SWEARINGEN
PUBLISHED AUGUST 16, 2023 5:45AM (EDT)


(Salon) So Donald Trump is finally being charged as the mob leader he has been for many years. It's about time.

Trump's father, who told him that he could either be a killer or a loser, and his later father figure, Roy Cohn, who taught him the dark Machiavellian arts, would be proud as putsch, er, punch.

When I heard that among the 41 felony counts in the 98-page indictment, Trump is being charged with conspiring to make a public official break his oath of office (technically speaking, with "Solicitation of Violation of Oath by Public Officer" ), that stood out. In a larger sense, Donald Trump has asked all his followers to renege on their duties as citizens of a democratic republic.

....(snip)....

But Trump's conspiracy to falsify the Georgia vote count, as heinous and as blatant as it was, pales in comparison to his ongoing and highly successful effort to train a sizable chunk of the American public to despise their own government, to hate the free press, to dehumanize their political opponents, not to take even the most basic precautions in a public health emergency and to embrace all kinds of dangerous conspiracy theories.

Trump's co-conspirators in this larger scheme go well beyond the 18 people indicted this week and their 30 or so unindicted co-conspirators. They include dark money–funded Republican members of Congress, a number of Republican governors who are avidly experimenting with autocracy at the state level, the Federalist Society-approved majority on the Supreme Court, and the Fox News­-Newsmax-OAN propaganda triad. .................(more)

https://www.salon.com/2023/08/16/donald-real-conspiracy-its-much-larger-than-even-fani-willis-imagines/

[Walleye]

1. I can't believe the people follow this man he says such terrible things about the United States and

and Americans. Our enemies have never said such terrible things, people were tortured in prisoner of war camps because they wouldn’t say such things. And yet all of his Jonestown population just love and imitate it. The question has to be do they love their country, or do they love Trump, it can’t be both

[Oopsie Daisy]

48. It's breathtaking, isn't it. But he validates their racism (and a bucket full of other -isms...)

It's breathtaking, isn't it. But he validates their racism (and a bucket full of other -isms and -phobias) while stoking their anger and sense of entitlement.

It's not their love of anyone... it's their hatred of so many others.

[Walleye]

49. Hatred is such a terrible way to live, I almost feel sorry for them, almost

[Oopsie Daisy]

50. Yes, almost.

Like you, I reserve my genuine pity for those who deserve it.

[dalton99a]

2. Kick

We could call this suggested indictment "The Conspiracy to Bring Down American Democracy," since that's precisely what it is. Even with Trump and a lot of other folks facing multiple indictments, the plan is ongoing. The coup attempt is still underway, although its headquarters have been moved from the White House and the Willard a thousand miles south to Mar-a-Lago. The former president is still this country's criminal in chief, and he desperately wants to weasel his way back into power.

And there are plenty of people out there ready to help, or actively conspiring to assist him in this larger criminal enterprise. Consider those behind the darkly funded No Labels effort, which makes a false equivalence between a well-intentioned political party trying to govern in good faith and a cult of personality trying to end democracy as we know it.

Sowing mistrust and hatred is the only real platform of the MAGA party in its determination to wield minority power into the indefinite future. It's mind-boggling that so many of Trump's co-conspirators in the ongoing plot against democracy are still walking around bloviating about Democratic conspiracies and the "deep state" and generally behaving like troubled middle schoolers, often in the very halls of the U.S. Capitol their followers attacked.

Is there a way to charge Trump, the entire Republican Party, Fox News, et al., with a criminal conspiracy aimed at "Soliciting Followers to Become Crap Citizens" or some such thing? Can we get that in front of a grand jury ASAP?

Trump recently made a characteristically puerile reference to hell that struck me as classic psychological projection — claiming, oddly, that Nancy Pelosi both came from hell and will be going back there — so I think it's fair game to end in the hot place. I'm not a particularly religious person, so when the concept of hell comes up my mind always goes to Dante's "Inferno," the best known section of his "Divine Comedy." As the poet outlines the circles of hell, I would imagine that both Fred Trump and Roy Cohn are doing time in one or another of the lowest levels. As for Donald John Trump himself, the multiply-indicted and twice-impeached former president of the United States and reality-TV host, it's not easy to say where he might land in Dante's scheme. Perhaps he would tarry briefly with the corrupt politicians and sowers of discord and falsifiers in Circle Eight (Fraud) before landing forever in the icy lake of Circle Nine (Treachery), where betrayers and traitors spend eternity.

[Ford_Prefect]

3. Working hand in glove with Vlad, Leonard Leo, Murdoch, Walton, Koch,

Along with other Russian, Saudi, Chinese and American oligarchs to disable the rule of American law I find surprising that anyone could suppose the entire cabal and its many conspiracies could be documented in only one article.

[lastlib]

6. Don't leave out Harlan Crow, Uncle Clarence's sugar daddy.

(Of course, they never speak about "business"..."omerta"....)

[Ford_Prefect]

7. Quite so...Among many un-named ultra-wealthy, unidicted co-conspirators

[Maru Kitteh]

40. There are no more Russian, Saudi, Chinese, American or even

South African oligarchs. There are only global oligarchs. All cut of the same cloth.

[Ford_Prefect]

43. True but they all play each for themselves and their own advantage. Regional differences apply

in that the Saudis expect to accomplish different outcomes than the Russians or the Americans for example. Local issues do matter to each regional group as their political power is based on local rule.

[Hekate]

4. And the author thinks Fani Willis doesn't "imagine" this? Ms Willis does the work in front of her...

…and I think she sees very far indeed. Very. Far.

[Ford_Prefect]

8. Another wag doubting the woman in charge...

[yardwork]

9. I was just going to post this!

Just because journalists are finally noticing what Trump's been doing doesn't mean the rest of us are as clueless, and I'm certain that Ms. Willis "imagines" (and knows) a great deal. She's charging what she can prove.

[jaxexpat]

11. Title writers' content break-downs jump the shark waaaay too often.

The constant insult to intelligence is torture............"don't believe in Beatles........just believe in me, Yoko and me."

[BannonsLiver]

24. Yep. The author is just another chode who thinks he has some special insight nobody else has.

[sheshe2]

25. +1 Agree!

[Kid Berwyn]

27. Not a thing negative about Ms. Willis in the article. Writer does rip Trump's co-conspirators.

The WOGAS for those who haven't read the article:

But Trump's conspiracy to falsify the Georgia vote count, as heinous and as blatant as it was, pales in comparison to his ongoing and highly successful effort to train a sizable chunk of the American public to despise their own government, to hate the free press, to dehumanize their political opponents, not to take even the most basic precautions in a public health emergency and to embrace all kinds of dangerous conspiracy theories.

[Hortensis]

33. To me, same general genre as the "what they don't want you to know" and

"doctors are shocked this works!" hooks.

When headlines are trying to play me for a huge sucker, I pass on giving them a win.

[whopis01]

45. The title is rather insulting

Trump’s conspiracy is far bigger than what Fanni Willis can charge him with. It is not bigger than she can imagine.

[Hekate]

46. Spot on

[William769]

5. K&R.

[moreland01]

10. What about his oath?

I'd like to see Jack Smith charge trump with violating his own oath of office!

[OMGWTF]

16. THIS!

[Danascot]

39. Violating his oath of office

should itself be a felony.

[ECL213]

12. A.K.A. a Basket of Fucking Deplorables!

[housecat]

13. It seems we are giving too much credit to tfg. Without foreign and domestic players with brains and

power, tfg would still be a small time real estate crook. Tfg has been continually coached, supported, manipulated and financed to the point that only the incoherent rants may be his own. Hardly original, but his own. Players far more qualified and experienced to do widespread damage to our Democracy have been in charge. Yet there is an urgent need to eliminate tfg because of his unnatural influence on the "unwashed masses" and get back to a damaged yet viable Democracy.

[Farmer-Rick]

18. Yes, exactly

The dicktater makers (I won't call them king makers because no one could ever turn tfg into a king, he's just too self centered and stupid.) behind the scenes are the ones trying to destroy democracy for fun and selfish profit.

It's the little Hitlers of capitalism wanting to their sociopathic rule to crush our democracy. They are just using Trump and the idiots who worship him to do it.

[relayerbob]

14. Headline is inaccurate

As far as I'm concerned, his chest-pounding is losing him crediility in my book.

She knows most of the extent of it, she just can't prosecute for parts that occur out of her jurisdiction, nor will she comment on parts outside of her case, in order to not prejudice any legal options in those other jurisdictions. He knows that.

It takes a lot of nerve for this guy to make it sound like he knows more than she does, when he likely knows just a tiny shred of what has really been going on, beyond his whispered sources, and suppositions based on what we ALL can see.

Next up, "Jack Smith only knows a little about the size of this conspiracy."

[Takket]

19. +1

Willis’s job is to put this monster away for life. She has charged him with more than enough counts to do that, and the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. So you charge him with what is plainly obvious and easy to get a conviction on.

Charging him with a zillion more counts that are harder to prove is only more likely to make a jury think you are just harassing him. Then they will dismiss everything. Willis did this right.

[housecat]

31. good point

[MagickMuffin]

15. Let's not forget the attorney general's in the swing states

And there’s ol crooked Ken Paxton at the center of the conspiracy

By supporting efforts to overturn the results of the presidential election, most of the nation’s Republican state attorneys general may have undermined their offices’ long-held special status in federal courts.

In December, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton filed legal papers attempting to overturn the results of the presidential election based on unfounded claims of election fraud in four states that voted for President-elect Joe Biden. The Republican attorneys general for 17 other states made legal filings supporting his effort, which was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.

More recently, an association that is affiliated with their political arm, the Republican Attorneys General Association, became entangled in the Jan. 6 rally by President Donald Trump that preceded the violent insurrection against the U.S. Capitol. That group, the Rule of Law Defense Fund, helped pay for promotional efforts to get people to attend Trump’s rally. The controversy prompted the AG association’s executive director, Adam Piper, to resign.


https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-capitol-siege-ken-paxton-bab5f89283d664081467abbbf6e014bd

[bucolic_frolic]

17. That's a very important article. It's all worse than most of us thought. /nt

[mn9driver]

20. In July 2020, Trump told his followers via a Chris Wallace interview

that he wouldn’t accept losing the November election:

" I have to see. Look, you -- I have to see. No, I'm not going to just say yes.”

His followers want a king. In 2020 he told them quite clearly that he would be their king. They believed him and millions voted for him.

And millions will vote for him in 2024. Guaranteed.

[Snackshack]

21. This person gets it.

Paging Senate Majority Schumer. It is time for the Democratic Party to stop sitting acting like they can just stand back and be silent and all will work out. It won’t.

Every opportunity the gop sees they are taking to change the complete make up of our Democracy. In that article the even more worrisome part is what gop governors are doing in each state they control.

Silence is complicity.

[Initech]

23. I'll just go to the Winchester, have a pint, and wait for this whole thing to blow over.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

35. Since when is the Democratic Party standing back?

They are doing everything they can, within the law and the rules they've agreed to operate under.

Why do you have a problem with people doing the right thing, rather than the scumbag thing?

[Snackshack]

51. The silence is deafening.

If there were still Democratic Senators around like Kennedy, Wellstone even Reid it would be different (at least it used to be) then what we see out of Schumer.

I remember Iran Contra, Savings and Loan scandal even that Az sting operation a long time ago and all thru the 90’s when the gop ramp up against the Clintons was taking shape. Those Democratic Party’s during those times were vocal and engaged and in front of a camera every day it seemed like injecting reality into the situation, informing their voters if nothing else and explaining the seriousness of it and why it is important not sitting back and just letting the “process do it’s work”. Because to most people this stuff does not seem like any big deal (an angle the gop is currently hitting on hard) since it really doesn’t impact their lives. Their days have not changed so get over it…

Since 9/11 the Dems have been gun shy about standing up. The gop is very effective at stripping down a single person. The gop labeling everyone as a traitor (the irony) who did not just go along w/ the invasion of Iraq is still very present in the partys mind. AOC tries to do this but she is constantly undercut by her own peers evens. This needs to stop and the Dems need to be

[Initech]

22. Spoiler alert: The whole damn party is in on it!

And I'd be willing to bet that the head honcho in all of this is Rupert Murdoch himself. He literally had a nightly batphone via Sean Hannity to Trump every night the last year of his term. It's going to be all connected at some point. There's not just one dot or a few dots, there's thousands of them. Hundreds of thousands. And they all allowed, enabled, and emboldened this psychopath and his hateful bullshit to take over the US. And when he didn't win a second term, they went insane.

[Recycle_Guru]

26. Salon? why not Medium or Geocities?

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

36. Salon is as viable and legit as The Daily Beast

Politico, or The Hill.

Just because they don't have a print version doesn't mean they don't do decent work.

[Ferrets are Cool]

28. Taught them to hate the same government that helps them live their lives

in a million different ways. Without that government, "they" would be completely helpless. At least 99.9% of them. The other .01%, I would NOT invite to my home.

[Quanto Magnus]

29. Kirk Swearingen

While speaking truth, is also stating something fairly obvious (and has been for some time) if you just pay attention.

Unfortunately, there's no legal anything for being a member of a cult.

[DJ Porkchop]

30. Outstanding points

[LiberalFighter]

32. I wonder how this compared just prior to and during World War III?

With major people supporting Hitler and wanting us to stay out.

If I recollect there were rallies and other major gatherings in the US supporting Hitler.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

37. I think you meant WWII there

We've managed to nibble around the edges at III without going there.

And, yes, this is very much like all of the other right-wing temper tantrums throughout the 20th century.

[Joinfortmill]

34. None of this could have happened without the Apprentice

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

38. None of it could have happened without people being brainwashed

From birth to reject reality and think that their beliefs are as good as facts.

It wouldn't have happened without decades of right-wing indoctrination that all liberals are Communists and evil. That started in the early decades of the 20th century, but really ramped up in the McCarthy years. It carried right on through the Cold War and Civil Rights era...

Straight into reagan the traitor filth openly demonizing liberals and brown people while sucking up to religious bigots...

On to Newt bringing scorched earth politics to the federal government alongside the rise of hate radio...

The birth of that propaganda network known as Fox making their bones on the BS Whitewater nonsense--but don't forget how their material almost exclusively came from "traditional" media traitors like the NYT...

Onward to the 9/11 scaredy cats and our traitor media screeching about anti-Iraq war people being traitors for being right about invading that country as a stupid, stupid idea...

Then straight on to the Tea Partiers who'd lost their minds over a black man as president.

TFG and the MAGAts are only the logical extension of all of that.

Anyone with a brain could have seen them coming.

[RocRizzo55]

47. None of this could have happened

if Ronnie Rat Raygun was not president. AFAIC, he started the whole thing. He was an incompetent president, only obeying his corporate bosses every step of the way. I remember it well.

[dsc]

41. Actually we have no idea what Ms. Willis imagines

we know what she thinks she can prove in court.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

42. This.

[SunSeeker]

44. K & R