What would you suggest be done about growing government debt?

[True Dough]

A couple of acknowledgements first: the Republicans have added to the debt problem more so than the Democrats. And the right is notorious for trotting out debt concerns to stymie Democratic initiatives.

That's been proven over and over again.

But that mountain of debt exists just the same. What would your strategy be?

US government debt

1953: $0.2 trillion
1963: $0.3 trillion
1973: $0.4 trillion
1983: $1.4 trillion
1993: $4.2 trillion
2003: $6.4 trillion
2013: $16.4 trillion

Now: $32.7 trillion

The US government's debt is now projected to rise by $5.2 billion every day for next decade, with total debt reaching $50 trillion by 2033.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[snowybirdie]

1. Raise taxes

On all those billionaires and millionaires

[Takket]

4. Has anyone ever done the math?

I’m curious how much taxes would actually have to be raised on the rich to actually operate the government at a profit and start paying down debt.

[newdayneeded]

42. This was a Limbaugh talking point,

"Why tax the rich more, it won't kill the debt anyway."

It's fucking bullshit!

You and I are paying 17 to 20% in taxes, the rich are paying an effective tax rate of single digits.

The point is, it doesn't matter if their taxation kills the debt or not, they still need to pay more!

[Dave says]

71. The GWB cuts + the Trump cuts

Reverse them.

The GWB cuts, iirc, unadjusted for inflation (meaning you can just about double it to express it in current dollars) was around $2 trillion over 10 years.

The Trump cuts were $2.7 trillion over 10 years.

The vast majority of both cuts went to the top 1%, and amongst them mostly to the top 0.1%.

So doubling GWB’s cuts (for inflation) plus the Trump cuts, it means we gave the already highly advantaged in our society about $670 billion a year. That would take a chunk out of the yearly deficit. It’s a start.

Imagine how bad things will become when the Republicans shut down government in December (budget fights) and our debt rating falls to BBB, adding 5% to our financing costs. Obviously, we won’t be able to continue Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid anymore. But don’t touch them tax cuts, ya hear?

(Only partly sarcasm.)

[Takket]

75. well i took a stab at it myself.......

Budget deficit in 2022 was $1.4 trillion

Top 1% paid $723 billion in taxes in 2022

so basically you need to triple their taxes.

looks like the richest pay 37% tax rate today. so tripling that is more than 100% right? LOL. of course what i looked up here is just income taxes, not sure if those payment include their capital gains?

[newdayneeded]

88. They DO NOT pay 37%,

they have a team of accountant that hide and bury money for them.

Their effective tax rate is in the single digits, and as low as zero. (trump stated this himself)

[Wonder Why]

35. To be more specific

Anyone with a gross annual income over $1M should not be allowed any deductions whatsoever i.e. the gross income is their taxable income.

Anyone with a gross annual income over $5M also has to pay taxes on all benefits and it is added to their gross income e.g. money put into 401K by their company, medical benefits, stock options (when given to them, not at selling), anything their company provides for their housing, food, etc including all travel expenses. No tax-free bonds.

Anyone with a gross annual income over $10M also cannot subtract losses but must pay tax on all equity gains even paper profits annually.

[True Dough]

79. Excellent ideas!

[True Dough]

80. There's a common refrain on some discussion forums...

"First post nails it!"

And that applies in this instance.

[EYESORE 9001]

2. Tax the rich, for starters

The first idea that mentions the word ‘austerity’ can GTFO.

[gab13by13]

3. Tax the rich,

minimum tax for corporations.

[Autumn]

5. Tax the rich, cut military spending.

[jimfields33]

8. Tax every dollar of a person who has over 10 million.

Keep military spending but only raise two percent a year for 10 years.

[Autumn]

11. The military always gets more than they ask for. Fuck em. Cut it to the bone.

Two percent a year for 10 years is way too much.

[jimfields33]

14. They normally get more than 2 percent. I'm trying to be realistic.

Lofty ideas even if correct won’t pass.

[Autumn]

37. Neither will realistic ideas. The military gets what they want the, wealthy will never be taxed.

Might as well go with lofty ideas.

[area51]

90. +1 n/t

[pwb]

6. Start taxing churches and their property?

If they want to be political they should not be a church. IMO.

[jimfields33]

12. And every non profit too. Nobody should be able to not pay taxes.

And every American gets 10 percent taken out of their paycheck regardless of income. If you make 30,000, you pay 3,000 annual taxes. If you make 100,000, you pay 10,000 in taxes. Fair across the board.

[walkingman]

26. NGOs were created to avoid taxes - nothing more.

[edisdead]

40. No thanks.

That is incredibly tough on low earners.

[dpibel]

55. A flat taxer?

You do know that's a favorite right-wing hobbyhorse?

[Dave says]

72. I dimly recall hearing

That it would take about 17% flat tax to replace taxes received under our current system.

[jimfields33]

27. You'll never guess which churches will close there doors if this happens.

It won’t be the rich white megachurches.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

78. agreed

[Brainfodder]

7. First off, deep dive inquiries into perceived RIP-OFFS on govt. contracts?

THAT seems the most over due to me.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

9. What percent of GDP?

[Kaleva]

10. Much of that debt is owed to the Federal Reserve System and SS Trust Fund

About 30% is owned by foreign, both government and private, investors.

[jimfields33]

16. We should at least try to pay off our foreign debt.

What about an annual concert that celebrities do performances and people call in to donate. What better way to save the countries future. I’d love that.

[Kaleva]

20. We could forgive the domestic debt, like what was done with student loans

The money saved from paying interest on the domestic debt could be used to pay down the foreign owned debt

[jimfields33]

22. Basically it's just money taken from social security

We’ll have to pay out social security anyway. I’m not sure what that would do if we wiped out our debt.

[Kaleva]

53. Removing the cap might make up for the loss

[MichMan]

24. A significant amount of the domestic debt is owed to people that bought treasury bills

Are you suggesting the government default and refuse to honor them?

[Kaleva]

51. About 1% is in savings bonds

The OP was asking for ideas and it may take extreme measures to pay off the debt.

From my perspective, anyone with investments is rather well off and not living month to month on SS or a low paying job

[MichMan]

56. Not savings bonds, treasury bills

Many people hold treasury bills in their 401k, & IRA accounts.

I don't know how anyone would suggest that a senior citizen that invested tens of thousands in treasury bills should have it all taken away by the government forgiving their own debt.

[keithbvadu2]

47. Donald recommended defaulting on the national debt.

Donald recommended defaulting on the national debt.

Negotiating with the creditors to take less money.

Don’t forget that much of America’s debt is owned by Americans, not just the Chinese and other foreigners .

Donald Trump's Glorious Threat To Default On The National Debt Is Just The Conventional Wisdom

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/07/donald-trumps-glorious-threat-to-default-on-the-national-debt-is-just-the-conventional-wisdom/#59ab980ca367

chart 2016

[Kaleva]

52. Call it "debt forgiveness" like it was with student loans.

[A HERETIC I AM]

69. There is no such thing as "foreign debt"

There are simply treasury securities held by foreign entities.

It’s not like the US Treasury walked into the Chinese or the Japanese central banks, hat in hand and begged them to loan us money.

That’s just not how it works.

The holders of US Debt Paper, regardless of who or where they are, do so voluntarily and receive regular interest payments. When the bonds they hold mature, they are paid IN FULL in US Dollars.

This idea that we owe the Chinese or whoever money is a massive misunderstanding of how the bond market works.

[Emile]

13. Quit electing republicans.

[walkingman]

28. Best answer yet - revenue lost from tax cuts and debt during GOP administrations.

[Dave says]

74. That, more than anything, is key

[JT45242]

15. Eliminate trump tax cuts...start there

Then...
1. Tax capital gains
2. Tax stock options
3. Minimum corporate tax
4. Eliminate social security cap (even the doughnut proposal of over $400k start paying again would help)



That would take care of most if not all of the problems.

Basically, roll back to the last bipartisan tax law in 1986

[jimfields33]

18. Your wish is happening in 2026, trump taxes expire.

What until you hear the howls from people. The media will do interviews of people on the street who won’t be happy to see their taxes increase.

[MichMan]

25. A lot of people that dont itemize are going to be sorry when the standard deduction gets slashed.

and their taxes are raised significantly. The majority of them are lower income and retirees.

[jimfields33]

41. 100 percent true.

I’m always stunned when people call for the trump taxes to go away. A real head scratcher.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

77. Same

Raising the lower brackets will hurt all of the wrong people .

We can argue that the cut for the rich was too much, but pretty much every single taxpayer for a cut. My brother didn’t believe me until I told him to do his taxes under the previous brackets…he was shocked that his taxes went down about $5k per year.

[zonemaster]

34. Got news for you... only the cuts affecting you and me expire

"For the wealthy, banks, and other corporations, the tax reform package was considered a lopsided victory given its significant and permanent tax cuts to corporate profits, investment income, estate tax, and more. "

https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/trumps-tax-reform-plan-explained/

Come on - did you really think the Republicans weren't that sinister and in-the-pocket of the uber-wealthy?

[jimfields33]

43. Doesn't matter. You'll still hear yelling and screaming from people.

This is going to be a disaster for people on social security and minimum wage workers.

[JT45242]

38. Clarification....the trump tax cuts for the Uber rich

Yes, for normal folks like me who make vess than $150k as a family, the trump tax cuts fade out.

But the cuts for businesses and millionaires were permanent.

[honest.abe]

17. Cut military spending by 5% and raise taxes on the uber wealthy and corporations.

And close the tax loopholes.

[A HERETIC I AM]

73. 5 ?!?!?! Only five percent?

Fuck that shit.

Cut it by half, MINIMUM!

The military budget of the United States is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on a tax paying population in history.

[usonian]

19. Tax the rich.

Since most of us here are not economists, I am more than sure that senators Sanders and Warren will have an answer in no time at all!

[Wounded Bear]

21. Drown the Republican Party in a bathtub and raise taxes on the top 1%...nt

[HariSeldon]

23. Debt denominated in USD is not an operational problem

First, the US government has no operational constraints on how many dollars out creates. Congress could create the money, by law, to pay off each obligation as it came due over the next 20 years. Compare, for example, the case of Greece, which has debt denominated in Euros, which the Greek government does not have legal authority to create at will. The US will always have the operational option to "print" money to satisfy our national debt. This is also why national debt like the US's is not like a household's or company's debt -- neither has the legal right to create the money to pay the debt off.

The debt exists because the federal government of the US chooses to both A) spend more money than it collected in taxes (necessary for a growing economy) and B) to borrow all the difference rather than legally creating any of it. As a counterexample, Japan does not always borrow as much as their deficit because their government refuses to pay a high enough interest rate to "finance" their entire deficit and creates the remainder of the deficit as new money.

Because of these choices, the national debt of the US actually represents economic growth that has occurred over time. It is, effectively, the only common way the monetary base of the US is expanded, though some actions by the Federal Reserve during the economic crisis did have the same effect.

[Walleye]

29. I have been hearing dire warnings about the national debt all of my 74 years of life

And yet here I am with a good Social Security and Medicare. And they’ve never asked me to pay back any of the national debt. The debt is really just a line of credit.

[former9thward]

67. Not true.

It is an inflation generator. Look what a $1 was worth 74 years ago and what its worth now.

[Kid Berwyn]

30. That's what happens in Trickle Down Economics.

Some 42 years ago, Red Ink Ronnie Pruneface cut taxes on his rich cronies and boosted spending on the same cronies' military-industrial complex.

Thank Goodness for President Joseph R. Biden, otherwise there'd still be no money for schools, health care, jobs and all the rest that made the USA great.

[doc03]

31. Dick Cheney said deficits don't matter, that is when Republicans are in

office.

[nuxvomica]

32. Tax the rich, end fossil fuel subsidies, carbon tax

That's how I did it in a simulation game called "Democracy3". It took all three. I was most surprised by the huge savings in ending fossil fuel subsidies. I also lowered the corporate tax and the economy took off even though the wealthy stockholders and executives were being taxed at 70%.

[617Blue]

33. Elect Democratic Presidents.

[inthewind21]

60. Elect

A democratic congress. The President can't do anything about taxes on their own.

[MichMan]

66. Nor is the president solely responsible for deficits

Congress shares equal blame for the national debt.

[Autumn]

76. Good luck with that since half of the country are not Democrats.

[DemocraticPatriot]

83. Elect Democrats, period.

All the way down the ticket to dog-catchers...

[Prairie_Seagull]

36. Billionairs should not exist. It's obscene, It's a fuck you to everyone who is not.

999,999,999.00 is not enough.

And elect democrats.

[edisdead]

39. Stop giving uber rich tax breaks?

[newdayneeded]

44. Not mentioned here yet.

The rich have an estimated 3 to 12 trillion in over seas accounts. To me this is un-American!

If they could be forced to bring that cash back into the American system and taxed at even 30%, that would be an immediate reduction of a quarter of the debt today.

[True Dough]

82. "But they'll flee the country"

warns Republican sycophants.

But the government has to close all loopholes.

[Fiendish Thingy]

45. Tax the rich

And increase IRS audits of the rich.

[newdayneeded]

46. This!

10s of billions of dollars + are being tax evaded every year.

[maxsolomon]

48. Cut the DoD budget by 1/3.

Enforce existing tax laws.
Expire the Trump Tax Cuts.
Rescind President Asshole's 72 million dollar tax refund.

[c-rational]

49. Put this in perspective. We have a 20-25 trillion dollar economy. Owing one year or even two years

of debt IMO is not egregious. I look at this and say it is akin to a home buyer that makes 100K a year buying a 250K home. Review what the debt burden will be. This should also be used to justify raising tax revenue by increasing the top tax rates to historical levels.

This also couples with arguments for investing in our infrastructure. The American Society of Civil Engineers (I am member) estimated that our infrastructure needs 4 trillion dollars worth of repairs. Over 10 years this represents 2% of our total GDP, however rethugs scream we cannot afford it. They are sowing the seeds of chaos.

[Hotler]

50. Repel all the tax cuts to the 1% all they way back to Regun to start with. nt

[MichMan]

57. Those Reagan tax cuts were passed by a Democratic House

No president can spend without the blessing of congress. They share equal blame for any debt

[Hortensis]

54. Elect Democrats, whose policies bring it down even while

spending to meet the needs of the nation.

Toss Republicans, who unfailingly run up huge debt to serve their megadonor classes EVERY time they get the power. They intentionally leave office after piling up enormous new debt for incoming Democrats to deal with and to force cutbacks or abandonment of some planned progressive spending. SOP.

Both historic fact.

[moondust]

58. Ask Bill Clinton.

~
He raised taxes on higher income taxpayers early in his first term and cut defense spending and welfare, which contributed to a rise in revenue and decline in spending relative to the size of the economy. These factors helped bring the United States federal budget into surplus from fiscal years 1998 to 2001, the only surplus years since 1969.
~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Bill_Clinton_administration

At the time some projected that if the surpluses continued they could wipe out the national debt in a decade or so.

Of course that didn't happen because SCOTUS turned the WH over to the GQP who immediately passed tax cuts which were then followed by 9/11, two expensive wars in the Middle East, financial deregulation, etc., leading to the Great Recession.

[Hamlette]

59. nothing, don't fret about it. The debt "scare" is what the GOP uses to not fund government

I admit I don't know enough about this issue as I should but, Paul Krugman has been saying it doesn't matter for as long as I can remember.

[Sky Jewels]

61. Tax billionaires more and slash the military budget.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[prodigitalson]

62. a tax on all foreigners living abroad

sell the widows and orphans then go into south american zinc

[Xavier Breath]

63. Have Treasury print a $3.27 trillion dollar bill and call it a day.

Or, there's always money in the banana stand.

Since the debt is only a concern when a "D" succeeds a president name and not when it's an "R," it's hard to get too worked up about the alternating dead silence and teeth-gnashing by those clowns.

[msongs]

64. send a bill to the GW Bush crime cabal for their illegal and immoral Iraq war nt

[quaker bill]

65. No one has ever paid anything on the debt.

It is literally not a concern. It is money we "owe" to ourselves.

We are the largest holder of public debt, always have been. The entire concept of a national debt in a country that has its own sovereign currency is strictly notional. Who gets the money if we pay it off? Substantial portions of the payments will go to the federal reserve, which by law sends its proceeds back into the general fund budget. It is a circle.

[hunter]

68. National debt isn't anything like household debt.

As a nation you pump money into the economy to make it grow, and you pump money out, via taxes, to control inflation.

[raccoon]

70. Raise taxes, especially on the rich.

[Hekate]

81. Tax the rich. And, print money to take care of what's needful. Elect Democrats. Do NOT let GOP...

…frame the issue any more, or ever.

Haven’t you noticed how the GOP simply spends on whatever they want to and tells the rest of us to go to hell? We need to stop letting them frame the argument.

[ecstatic]

84. Fire all republican congress members. They hate government and they want to cut spending

so it shouldn't be an issue.

[roamer65]

85. Return to the tax rates of 1982, adjusted for inflation.

Top rate was 50 percent.

It’s a no brainer. Just do it.

In 1965 dollars, the debt is 3.2 trillion. It looks a lot worse due to the dollar’s 90 pct devaluation.

Early 1965 is a good benchmark as it is just before spending on the Vietnam War really wound up.

[GoodRaisin]

86. Go hard with "trickle up" economic policies and raise tax brackets.

Get money into the hands of those who will spend it, increase taxes on highest earners, and tax wealth.

[JCMach1]

87. Phased sunset of Trump and Bush taxcuts

[Brainfodder]

89. DJT dunking booth, .50 a throw, open 24/7/365 no breaks, should have debt down by 9/1/23, tyvm!

Did I mention you can miss and hit him directly in the face, only 2 errand shots allowed per customer, I am sorry not sorry!

[Jacson6]

91. Congress can just pass a constitutional amendment to allow bankruptcy for the Federal Gov't

Then we could settle the national debt for 10 to 20 percent of it's value. IMHO.