Susan Sarandon sues over 'extensive problems' with $2m VT Dream House

[speak easy]

The Oscar-winning actor Susan Sarandon has taken a construction firm to court over what she calls “extensive problems” at what she envisioned as a $2m eco-friendly dream home she had built in Vermont for her retirement.

Buckled siding, missing insulation, mold and an unfinished primary bedroom ceiling are among 47 issues found by engineers, contractors and Sarandon’s staff, according to a lawsuit filed against DeGrenier Contracting and Property Management in federal court in Springfield, Massachusetts.

Sarandon, 76, built the environmentally sustainable home on 45 wooded acres with meadows in Stamford, Vermont, near the Massachusetts border. She bought the parcel in 2018 through the limited liability company The Right to Bear Farms, which filed the lawsuit.

Sarandon said she had a “clear vision” for a home that would be “entirely off-the-grid”, with solar power, well water and geothermal energy, “in light of increasing global environmental instability”.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/aug/18/susan-sarandon-sues-dream-home-problems

[bucolic_frolic]

1. what a waste of money

[DURHAM D]

2. Does she think it is Hillary's fault? nt

[wcmagumba]

3. Feel so bad for her...

[texasfiddler]

4. Damn third party contractors messing it up!!

[Bongo Prophet]

8. Heh

[pandr32]

18. Bullseye 🎯

[JohnSJ]

73. Best post in this thread +++

[Roland99]

77. teh winnar

[sheshe2]

128. DUzy!

[Scrivener7]

5. How sad.

[hunter]

6. A link...

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/aug/18/susan-sarandon-sues-dream-home-problems

Our environmental footprints are generally proportional to our wealth.

If you want an "eco-friendly dream home" move to the city and live simply.

That 45 acre wooded lot would get along just fine as eco-friendly wilderness.

[Hortensis]

29. This.

[Mysterian]

51. Or fix up an older home

rather than destroying forest and meadow to build a "dream house."

[Johonny]

7. What a shame

LOL

[BeyondGeography]

9. Contractors are very tough to come by in those parts

And they all know each other. This job might ultimately get done to her satisfaction but it won’t be the last time she needs to pick up the phone. So good luck with all that, Susan.

[Demsrule86]

10. I don't give a damn...I hate her. I will never forgive her and others for 2016. NEVER!

[dem4decades]

11. Paybacks a bitch, who knew mold had a had a sense of justice?

[Hortensis]

28. :) Who indeed, and additionally perhaps

bears a permanent personal grudge for her anti-democracy support for negating its vote. If so, I know just how it feels.

[edisdead]

12. Nope not one fuck in my cupboard.

[debm55]

27. I know--so sad isn't it.

[getagrip_already]

13. But she went with such a reputable company....

John Miller Construction. The lead supervisor was barron gold.

It was all on the up and up, really. The pillow guy recommended them.

[Sympthsical]

14. This about to be reasonable, lol

Internet behavior, engage!

Ah, never gets old.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. .

[lapucelle]

47. Is the 76 year old retired senior citizen Sarandon represented by Mildred or Helen in the cartoon?

[Nixie]

79. LOL, that is exactly what I was thinking. Googling Sarandon, there appears to be

some likeness to those ironic cartoons.

[betsuni]

35. DU is a forum for supporters of the Democratic Party, not third party voters or

those who think both Republicans and Democrats are the same and personally insult supporters of Democrats as people like Sarandon do. What was it ... bog standard blah blah blah.

[Nixie]

80. Bingo! At this point, it's pretty obvious that the third party promoters are not

really getting it.

[betsuni]

15. A learning experience for Susan.

After all those years demonizing Democrats for fictitious corruption, childish name-calling (neoliberal/establishment/status quo/warmonger/corporatist/elites), promoting some sort of pseudo populist revolution to defeat the evil Democratic Party, Enemy of the People. That was fiction, like movies.

A contracting company not doing work you paid for is actually corruption. Reality! Can you see the difference? Try, Susan! Next time you accuse Democrats of something, make sure it's a real life thing and not someone else's anti-Democratic very poorly written script.

[brer cat]

16. I'm trying to find some tears, but I just can't.

So sorry that a third party messed up your dreams.

[Cha]

17. Aww...she's got hers what did she

care if trump got in with the help of her Lies that Hillary & trump were the same.. or did she say trump would be better?

The Damage done to America bc of trump spreading his Fascism and the Fucking Big Lie is Heartbreaking & the Damage is Unfathomable... she helped Putin & jill stein.. does she care? She's has her $2 Million retirement home in Vermont.

Pres Joe Biden is the Revolution, *****.

[betsuni]

23. Trump was better because less dangerous, then she pretended the Original Recipe Revolution wasn't

about replacing the Democratic Party with purity populists but about Trump inspiring more women to run for office.

She's been a political activist for decades but sure gets things wrong, probably because you can't learn if you can't admit you're wrong.

[Cha]

25. Good analysis.. Mahalo, betsuni...

that's right I remember.. ".. trump would be less dangerous.. " Sarandon knows Nothing.

And, of course.. she will Never apologize or admit she was/is Wrong. That apparently would be beneath the Gaslighting Always Wrong Activist.

I imagine Actors and Actresses who actually Care about America are Pissed at her.

I know Bradly Whitford called her out being so wrong and not admitting it.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Nixie]

30. "she sure gets things wrong", yes, and she gets it so wrong that

I’ve started wondering if she’s a plant. The only thing we know for sure about her is that she’s rich AF.

Maybe she really loves the GOP tax cuts for the wealthy but knows the way she gets it is by dividing Democrats so they slide in. Her complete nonchalance about the damage the GOP does just doesn’t match her CONCERN.

[betsuni]

32. Unlike fellow activists Jane Fonda and Ed Begley Jr. (who lived in real eco houses for decades),

I think she gets enthusiastic about personalities and is easily influenced. Poor judgement, gullible.

A fervent John Edwards surrogate despite his Iraq vote, Hillary was somehow a dangerous warmonger itching to start World War III because of the same vote, totally untrustworthy forever. Who had the real scandal, lied about it, disappeared?

Believed no difference between the parties except for "identity politics," chose to ignore Hillary's entire career and believed cheap lies that Democrats only ran on "I'm a woman, vote for me!" or "We're not as bad as Trump, vote for me!"

Democrats are immoral corrupt corporatists because of campaign contributions used to pay for running for office, but her working for corporations for millions to pay for things she needs in her life and then constantly publicly slandering Democrats to help Republicans get elected is perfectly fine -- no conspiracy theories about being paid to do so by the Status Quo Establishment. Capitalism is only corrupting for those terrible Democrats!

Not a lot of thinking going on here.

Her fans get upset, boo hoo!

[Nixie]

81. Yes, it really is an alternate universe created just like Fox News does for their lemmings.

Sarandon is an actress, after all.

"Not a lot of thinking going on here." Exactly. She is completely untrustworthy on every level.

[Maru Kitteh]

99. I think she just wanted to bump uglies with Edwards

Probably got her wish I’m thinking.

[mn9driver]

19. Total fucks available to give:

Zero.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

20. Hey, Susan, you stupid traitor trash:

[Maru Kitteh]

21. Tool of Putin uses tax loophole, predatory structure & intimidation to finance luxury prepper palace

Sneers at peons and declares they must buy more of her oily cream because they need her.

[Blue Owl]

22. Fuck off SaranDon

[Oopsie Daisy]

24. Vermont. 🙄

[Celerity]

34. What's wrong with Vermont? It's streets ahead of a shedload of red shitholes.

[MrsCoffee]

37. Nothing wrong. Just apropos.

She was a major Bernie Bro after all.

[Celerity]

39. I don't reduce a whole state to one person. Plus the land she bought is just a few miles from the MA

border, and is also pretty close to the NY border. It is hardly deep in the middle of VT.



Multiple celebrities have bought land/homes in that area.

https://wupe.com/what-celebrity-is-moing-in-over-the-border-from-north-adams/

Celebrity sightings are pretty regular here in The Berkshires. James Taylor, Meryl Streep, even Oscar-winning actor Susan Sarandon is building a hilltop home just across the Massachusetts border, in Stamford Vermont.

I think the reason we get so many celebrities migrating to the Berkshires and the surrounding area is that they are treated like normal people, not celebrities.

We now have another celebrity buying property that has visited the southern part of Vermont many times with different family members to go skiing and have some downtime.

This time it is Alec Baldwin and his wife, who have bought a historic farm of about 50 acres, near the town of Arlington which is right outside of Bennington. Baldwin paid $1,750.000 for the three-bedroom three-bath farmhouse and property on Ice Pond Road. This information on the home is of public record.

[MrsCoffee]

40. Lol. Ok.

[Celerity]

42. Just to be clear, I think Sarandon can go fuck right off. nt

[betsuni]

41. I heard millionaires and billionaires were very very very bad. Guess it's okay after all.

[Autumn]

46. Yet she announced she was supporting and voting for Biden in 2020. I wonder why.

[MrsCoffee]

50. All while saying she would create a 3rd party so she never had to vote lesser of two evils again.

And slamming Biden as a corporatist.

She said her vote for Biden was a vote against fascism and that she would do everything in her power to create a third party so she wouldn’t have to “vote for the lesser of two evils next time.”

I don’t find that very benign.

[Autumn]

53. Yeah, but she voted. Not everybody believes that the two parties we have are the bees knees .

[lapucelle]

48. Vermont has a prison and prison policy problem.

Two facts about Vermont’s criminal justice system were made clear in the final weeks of 2019. First, our state’s justice system is far more dysfunctional, violent, and abusive than many Vermonters realized. And second, we have an opportunity, as well as a moral obligation, to subject far fewer people to that system than we currently do.

snip=============================

In early December, a window into the myriad harms our prison system inflicts on Vermonters was blown open by Seven Days’ Paul Heinz, who exposed longstanding allegations of rape and assault by correctional officers at Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility (CRCF), Vermont’s only women’s prison. Senior officials knew about the abuses and did not intervene, allowing them to continue for years.

A few days after that story broke, Vermont inmate Kenneth Johnson died in prison in Newport. Johnson was a black man in a state that incarcerates black men at one of the highest rates in the country. One witness reported that for hours before he died, Johnson struggled to breathe and pleaded for medical attention.

Later the same week, VTDigger reported that Vermont would have to come up with an additional $1.3 million to cover the costs of sending 273 people to a private prison in Mississippi. State taxpayers now pay the notorious private prison corporation CoreCivic $7 million annually to incarcerate Vermonters out of state.

Taken as a whole, these reports exposed the inhumanity of incarceration and Vermont’s continuing failure to invest in people over prisons. Profound changes in institutional culture and prison conditions are clearly needed. But the fact remains that the most effective way to prevent more injustices like these is for Vermont to follow through on its commitment to decarceration.

https://vtdigger.org/2020/01/14/james-lyall-prisons-are-the-problem-but-the-solution-is-clear/

[Celerity]

49. On balance, Vermont is far better governed than a shedload of other states. nt

[lapucelle]

60. How so? Vermont incarcerates Blacks at a rate 10 times that of whites.

Latest Census figures show Blacks make up a little more than 1 percent of the state’s population, but the report issued last week reveals that blacks made up 8.5 percent of Vermont’s prisoners.

That number compares to a 2016 national report based on 2014 numbers by the Sentencing Project that showed that Blacks were incarcerated at a rate 10 times that of whites in Vermont.

https://vtdigger.org/2018/10/22/racial-disparity-vermont-prisons-little-changed-report-says/

[Celerity]

65. Oki, you go live in a deep Red state and tell me again how shit Vermont is compared to it

Also, diversity (in terms of % of Black population, as that is what you seem to be focussing on) is not a guarantee at all of of being a Blue state

[Autumn]

75. Yep. The problem with Vermont is that Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders lives there.

They keep electing him. Over and over.

[Nixie]

82. "They keep electing him." Isn't there an agreement that Democrats won't run against him??

So it's obviously easier for 200,000 to vote for you if there are no alternatives. How nice of Democrats to give Bernie all those advantages.

[Autumn]

84. Leadership certainly realizes his worth to their party.

But then most progressives do.

[Nixie]

86. So it's ok to rig elections after all?

Ok then. Though it is probably officially called something different if a Democrat gets the same advantage.

[Autumn]

87. Are you accusing Democrats of rigging elections Nixie? You might want to rethink that.

That sounds like a RW talking point to me

Nixie
86. So it's ok to rig elections after all?
Ok then. Though it is probably officially called something different if a Democrat gets the same advantage.

[Nixie]

88. Wait, are you saying that RWers helped Bernie, too?

That does sound like a strange talking point. Kinda twisted.

[Autumn]

89. No that was what you said Nixie. Nice try but I'm not going down the Rabbit Hole with you.

[Nixie]

91. No, you brought up RWers. Why would RWers help Bernie?

[Celerity]

102. pure sophistry, you implied Dems were rigging elections, which the poster simply pointed out is a RW

talking point that you were adopting, according to them. The other poster never said anything about RWers helping Sanders. They never even used the term RWers, they said you were using RW talking points.

These two replies of yours:





are a complete invention of yours, in order to try and muddy the water and deflect from your implying that Dems are rigging elections and then the other poster calling you out on that.

here is the exchange for more context

[Nixie]

103. Wrong. It's hard to believe that both of you are pretending you don't know who complained

about rigged elections, so my insinuation was about those double standards. How laughable that you think you can pass that off as Democrats rigging elections. And it was obvious why RWers were brought up. BTW, reality is/was that RWers love Bernie, something that poster couldn't and wouldn't answer since her insinuation about RWers was for another reason.

Here's some advice for you. Reality is not the rabbit hole. Alternate universes and gaslighting are the rabbit holes. I hope you didn't lose too much sleep copying and pasting all my posts so that you can misrepresent them. You do like your bloated links as I recall.

[Celerity]

106. RWers & their aiding Sanders was never brought up by the other poster. That was your invention, that

tried to fob off onto them, as us shown clearly by your own words and theirs. Are you trying to claim that RWers infiltrated the Vermont Democrat Party and somehow convinced the Dems to stand down for Sanders?

The only time RW was used by the other poster is when they called your implying Dems were rigging elections a RW taking point.

right here

If you take issue with that, well by all means, ask them about it.

You are now, ex post facto, making all sorts of tangential and ever more expansive additional claims and rationalisations that have nothing to do with anything the other poster said. It is further trying to muddy the water.

Like I said, pure sophistry.

I did not misrepresent anything.

It is all your own words and the others poster's words, posted in a linear fashion via snapshots (so easy yo do, I use Gyazo, it is hardly any effort).

It is why I copy and pasted it, so there could no confusion or attempts to ex post facto edit it (like another poster did when they personally attacked me (called me a gaslighter), and then edited to replace that attack with another personal attack (calling me a sea lion).

You are more than familiar with that one because that is the very part of the thread you came into and tried to reignite the whole thing, more than a day after it all happened.

here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218196694#post72

[Nixie]

108. Your bloated links again, but I'm not buying that you don't understand why that

poster really brought up RW talking points. Especially when it was completely out of context with the reality of RWers and their treatment of Bernie. So, no, reality is never the rabbit hole. Insinuating other Democrats are RWers was always in the trick bag, though.

BTW, love all your edits and deleted posts.

[betsuni]

131. +1

[lapucelle]

52. The cost of a state university college education is very high in Vermont.

University of Vermont tuition remains among highest in the U.S., despite tuition freeze

In-state Vermont students pay $16,392 in tuition, plus a mandatory "comprehensive fee" of $2,610. This fee is for "programs and services that support student success," according to the university website. The combined total of these two costs, $19,002, does not include fees for housing, meals, or books.

The average in-state tuition and fees for public colleges in the U.S. is $10,338, according to U.S. News & World Report. Some state universities charge lower

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/2021/11/01/university-vermont-tuition-among-highest-college-tutition-fees/6230885001/

[Celerity]

54. I agree, all (not just Vermont) university tuition should be free, just like it is here in Sweden.

Sen. Bernie Sanders introduces bill to make college free and have Wall Street pay for it

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/21/sen-bernie-sanders-introduces-bill-to-make-college-free-and-have-wall-st-pay-for-it.html

PUBLISHED WED, APR 21 2021

Free college could soon be a reality for many Americans. Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash., on Wednesday introduced the College for All Plan, legislation that would make a college education free for millions and lend extra support to those from working-class families attending minority institutions.

“In the wealthiest country in the history of the world, a higher education should be a right for all, not a privilege for the few,” Sanders said in a statement. “If we are going to have the kind of standard of living that the American people deserve, we need to have the best educated workforce in the world.”

The proposal comes amid a continuing debate over canceling student loan debt. President Joe Biden said during his presidential campaign that he would support eliminating $10,000 in federal debt per borrower, and now he’s tasked his secretary of Education with preparing a report on his legal authority to forgive up to $50,000.

“While President Biden can and should immediately cancel student debt for millions of borrowers, Congress must ensure that working families never have to take out these crushing loans to receive a higher education in the first place,” Jayapal said. Americans currently owe a total of more than $1.7 trillion in student loan debt, 93% of which is federally backed.

snip

snip

[lapucelle]

56. We've had free state university & community college in NY for years. Unlike VT, NY elects Democrats.

[Celerity]

59. Vermont has had 2 Democratic caucus Senators and Democratic caucus House Reps for decades,

for almost my entire life.

Since 2001 for the Senate (when Jim Jeffords flipped).

And since 1991 for the US House.

It also has voted for the Democratic POTUS nominee non-stop starting in 1992.

[lapucelle]

63. They've had a Republican governor since 2017.

If only someone of influence could inspire Vermonters to replace the Republican in the state house!

Maybe then Vermont would stop shipping off the incarcerated to for-profit prisons in Mississippi.

[Celerity]

68. Multiple Blue states at federal level have/had Rethug Governors, and Scott is hardly a MAGAt. MA has

had Rethug Governors on and off for decades. From 1991 to Jan 2023, every MA governor was a Rethug except for Deval Patrick.

Maryland, before Moore won, had Rethugs for 2 of its last 3 Governors.

Minnesota, since 1979, has had 3 Rethusg, and 3 Dems, plus the centre right independent Ventura.

Virginia has had, since 1994, 4 Dems, and 4 Rethugs

New Jersey has had, since 1982, has had 6 Rethugs, and 6 Dems

New Hampshire has had, since 1982, 5 Rethugs, and 3 Dems

[lapucelle]

70. All defense of Republican governor Phil Scott (and his prison policies)

is duly noted.

[Celerity]

71. rubbish, I am not defending Vermont's prison polices

[lapucelle]

55. Vermont lacks diversity.

Vermont is the third-least diverse U.S. state, ranking 48th for Cultural Diversity and 47th for Religious Diversity. Just second to Maine, Vermont is among the least racially and ethnically diverse states, with a population that is 94.2% white. Vermont also has the second-lowest level of industry diversity.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/most-diverse-states

[Celerity]

57. go for 4 replies to the same post, I know you can do it

Btw, what is your proposal to make Vermont more diverse?

[lapucelle]

58. ...

[Celerity]

61. non sequitur

[lapucelle]

64. Don't tell me what to say.

[Celerity]

66. I was not telling you what to say with that statement.

[lapucelle]

69. It doesn't work on me.

[Celerity]

72. ridiculous personal attack, I am NOT gaslighting

Last edited Mon Aug 21, 2023, 02:41 AM - Edit history (1)

edited to add what that poster's original reply to me was (they altered it as it WAS a clear personal attack, gaslighter is a very loaded attack word)

they altered it to another personal attack smear btw, now calling me a sea lion simply for defending myself by pointing out their piling on with reply after reply to one single post of mine above

the original, calling me a gaslighter: (it is a .gif, but I can only take a still snapshot)



if you doubt me, go look at the edit history

and now the present personal attack seal lion smear: (snapshot in case they alter it again)

[Nixie]

83. Replies to you are not personal attacks.

[Celerity]

92. that one most definitely was

[Nixie]

93. No, it's how you predictably segue.

[Celerity]

94. No, falsely accusing me of gaslighting is a personal attack.

It started when that poster went back and kept replying over and over to the same single one reply by me, all in a very short time frame, then tried to flip the script and make it look like I was doing something wrong by my simply pointing that out.

When I disputed that, they then pivoted to the personal attack of falsely accusing me of gaslighting, when all I did was point out facts (they did reply over and over to the same single reply, and in a short timespan) and then defended myself by disputing their false secondary claim that I was trying to tell them what to say (I was not, I was only commenting on the repetitive replies to the single post).

That all happened on Saturday, and now a day plus later (it is now, as I type this, 5 30 AM on Monday for me), you have come into a dead thread (there had been no replies to anyone at all on any part of it since Saturday until you came into it a few minutes before Sunday turned to Monday) and tried to reignite it all again, first with another poster and then within seconds of that (and continuing) with me.

[Nixie]

95. LOL, look at you dictating when a thread is dead.

Such irony. All of it. Predictably as I said.

[Celerity]

97. I did not 'dictate it'. Simple time and duration between the last comments in it on anything

by anyone on any subject and then you coming in a day plus later did, as I showed.

There is no irony there whatsoever, as I would very likely not be commenting on this thread again if not for you.

I myself stopped commenting in it at all on Saturday, as did every other DU member. My last comment on this thread before you came in a day plus later and replied to me was on Saturday morning, east coast US time. The last post before by anyone in the thread before you came in a day plus later was on Saturday mid afternoon, east coast US time.

[Nixie]

98. I think we're all allowed to have our own lives that

might interfere with internet commenting. It’s not your business or concern to tell others when they can comment or how much time they are allowed to take off in between threads to do real life things — whether or not that meets with your approval. It’s rather humorous that you type so many words because you disapprove that yesterday was a busy day for me. And your detective skills didn’t take into consideration response numbers and timing. What’s up with that?

[Celerity]

100. You are simply trying to deflect from the personal attack.

I was NOT gaslighting on anything, it was a false accusation using loaded language. It was a personal attack.

also you said

And your detective skills didn’t take into consideration response numbers and timing. What’s up with that?

Of course I did, I went by post numbers.

the last post before you popped in a day plus later:

3 23 PM east coast US time, 9 23 PM my time

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218196694#post78

and the next post was yours, a day plus later

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218196694#post79

then next was you

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218196694#post80

the next was you again

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218196694#post81

as was the next (which kicked off a back and forth between you and that poster)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218196694#post82

and then, one minute later after that

your reply to me

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218196694#post83

[Nixie]

104. Wrong again. So many misdirections. You must be so tired.

I posted first in this thread on Friday 8/18 before you even posted. Does that win me anything or give me any kind of license to post again if I want to? A very intelligent and well liked poster answered me 5 hours later while I was sleeping. Then I got busy during the day and couldn't respond. You insinuating that I can't post in a thread and answer someone's posts without your approval looks like that gaslighting comment might be accurate.

BTW, thanks for that lovely picture of the detective! I love that trench coat so much. I wonder what length it is. I just got one like that which is knee length. I have a longer London Fog my mom got me years and years ago, but it's longer and I wanted a shorter one, which is pretty much the same color as that picture. That woman looks so terrific!

[Celerity]

110. I gaslight no one, its a personal attack, as is the edited (so that poster clearly thought better of

the smear and changed it) new one calling me a sea lion.

It is aggressive and hostile and is a personal attack.

I will defend myself on here, I am not going to be bullied about and smeared and just bow down and accept it.

you said

You insinuating that I can't post in a thread and answer someone's posts without your approval looks like that gaslighting comment might be accurate.

I never said anything about you replying to that other poster, that is between you and them.

[Nixie]

112. You most certainly tried to insult me about posting in what you called a dead thread.

But I decided it wasn't dead and I posted accordingly. I get to determine when I post, it seems. Nothing that anyone should get upset about.

[betsuni]

101. It's hilarious!

[Nixie]

105. It is hilarious! I wonder if my 3 posts just this morning were in

an acceptable order. After all, I did take some time off from the internet last night for that sleep thing.

[Celerity]

107. No, I don't find personal attacks and then a day+ ex post facto reignition attempt hilarious at all.

Sad that you do. Speaks far more about you than me.

If falsely calling me a gaslighter, and then, after an edit by that poster, calling me a sea lion is ok, is fine, is not a personal attack in your book, then I suggest your book is in need of some serious revisions.

That same poster also falsely accused me, higher up the thread, of defending a Rethug governor and VT's prison policies. It is all bullshit.

It is cyber bullying and smearing and designed to induce a chilling effect.

It is archetypal of behaviours from a small, but very coordinated, relentless, and aggressive group that help to make this place toxic AF when it comes to discussions of things they disagree with in terms of their own personal philosophical and/or political ideological stances.

And NO, I am not talking about a fucking POS like Sarandon, or some fucking 3rd party wreckers.

I am talking about a seemingly obsessive hatred for Sanders, AOC, and other progressives, and some, if not most, of the big policies that they back.

There is a concerted effort by a small handful to try and paint them and their policies as somehow morally and politically wrong, bankrupt, destructive for our party.

Even beyond that, they attempt to paint them as BAD PEOPLE, to ridicule them, mock them, attack them in a myriad number of cleverclogs and/or disingenuous ways, assign untoward, unseemly motives to them, accuse them of being in some sort of diabolical, semi hidden plot, etc etc.

Sometimes those attacks are done in ways that if one of that attacking group's sacred cows was treated in similar fashion and manner, they would likely explode in a fit of pique, a swarm of rage and anger. It is a one-way street for them.

And people wonder why so few few remotely younger people choose to join here (no it is not all down to just this chatboard format, look at Reddit for an example of a monster platform similar in construct to this one, and one that has an insane amount of us younger folk on it), despite a lot of hard yards being put in by some of us to get them to come and contribute and enrich and expand the DU community.

[Nixie]

109. This is so predictable, but it's really a bit unhinged at this point.

This is a reality based community and reality of election results should be respected. The irony of you pointing fingers at those who dwell in reality! You claim you are younger, but it's also good to point out to younger people that all the pie in the sky talking points don't mean anything if you can't get elected. That's where the reality based comments come in. No offense, but claiming that people talking about reality are so offensive to you doesn't sound right. Cheers!

[Sympthsical]

113. Accusing Democrats of rigging Vermont's elections happened

The poster is bringing receipts.

Telling people they are not seeing what they can easily scroll up and see with their own two eyes is gaslighting in a highly abusive way.

I do not understand the object of the exercise in doing so. Actually, I do. It is to goad just enough to invite sanction.

Reminds me of an episode of the Gianni Versace miniseries about Andrew Cunnanan I was watching the other night. The episode Creator/Destroyer. There is a path to contributing and building and a path to entropy and decay.

And within those two, people make their choices.

Burning villages never saved them.

[Nixie]

114. But this is not what my insinuation was. Not at all.

It's pretty funny that we are all pretending that a certain someone didn't spend a lot of time complaining about rigged elections. Since this is all insinuations, you don't get to revise what my insinuation was, especially when the political reality doesn't back you up.

[Sympthsical]

117. It's very simple

The accusation of rigging by Democrats was made, then when called on it, there was a (poor) attempt to pivot to the pretense something else was meant rather than the very strikingly clear statements.

Can I sign up for a course on this? Is there something on Khan Academy about gaslighting? I'm open to links.

You know, here's the thing. Sanders, AOC, the rest of the progressives. They and their political philosophies are overwhelmingly the choice of voters under 45. It isn't even kind of close. So these relentless attacks and party gatekeeping are certainly some kind of choice.

There are only two options in this. Invite and get along with the people who are ostensibly the future of the party. Or relentlessly attack, scold, disinclude, and actively alienate those people and consign the party to a slow withering on the vine as its core supporters age out of the equation.

How choosing the latter option is considered not only a good idea, but one to be enthusiastically embraced is never not baffling to me.

You know the saying, "You can't take it with you." Yeah, applies to political parties, too. What is the end game in this gatekeeping?

This stuff actively damages the party. And the more I see it, the more I wonder if that is actually the goal under the surface. I've thought many times, if I really wanted to do some under the radar damage, I would pretend to be the most fervent supporter of a project or organization or person and then just immolate it from within via alienating people. Just go to absolute town in making people not want to be associated with what I claim I'm supporting.

I don't know how much talent or effort that would take. Probably not too much.

[Nixie]

119. What makes this a waste of your time is that you

don’t get to supersede your insinuation over my insinuation about another poster’s insinuation about RW talking points.

Especially when RWers never did what that poster implied. So obviously RWers were brought up for another reason.

Reality is never the rabbit hole. Getting angry over people who are reality based is pointless and certainly not a moral high ground.

[Nixie]

115. And, ugh. Someone's brutal murder is your bizarre analogy of some internet insinuation post?

Reality is the receipt, btw.

[Sympthsical]

118. Did you think the murder was the analogy?

Man. I was just using a television episode's theme to make a point. Build up vs. tearing down. Pretty straight forward.

I think if books had gotten involved, it might've been a rough morning.

[Nixie]

120. Fail

[Sympthsical]

121. Nuh uh

[Nixie]

111. Also, if you're back to counting days of when someone posts, you would be the culprit in this thread

since I posted first. Is that how it works? A day later, you posted after I did and it looks like concern over a comment about Vermont which upset you.

So based on your standards about time lapses between posts, you posted later than me by a day so would your same logic apply to you, as well?

[Celerity]

122. I was done with the thread until you came back in more than day after I posted.

my last original post before I came back on Monday was on Saturday afternoon (morning US time)



I did not post again until Monday, my time, a few hours after you came in and replied to that post



That reply of yours:

Star Member Nixie (16,686 posts)

83. Replies to you are not personal attacks.

was disingenuous, as that other poster twice personally attacked me, first as a gaslighter, then (after they edited it) as a sea lion

it was not some simple, everyday reply

your verbiage

Replies to you are not personal attacks.

falsely makes it seem I am calling any reply to me personal attack, which is just ludicrous

[Nixie]

123. Well, I wasn't done with the thread and I get to

decide what I post and when I post. I posted a day before you did, so that makes you the one guilty of your own accusations, which is probably more the reality of all of this…

Cheers! Do some nice self-care things for yourself today, some sleep, walks and some good smoothies. Do you like protein smoothies like milk based or more fruit smoothies?

[Celerity]

125. we have an abundance of great health food/smoothies shops here. I like almond milk in my drinks

Mahalo Söder is a really good place

https://mahalosthlm.se/meny

[Nixie]

126. That place looks heavenly! I realized after I said milk based that most people nowadays

are more plant based with these health drinks, so I meant milk based plant drinks. I've gone back to almond milk, too, since I started reading some negative things about oat milk, but I haven't researched it enough to completely omit it but it's on hold for now.

My first love is coconut milk, it's harder to find on most menus. I get it when I can, but even at home it's easier to use the almond milk.

You have a great day! Your picture reminded me I need to get some fresh ginger (for some wellness shots).

[Celerity]

127. cheers

[Just_Vote_Dem]

130. Please be careful with coconut milk

It's higher in saturated fat than most of the other options. I had a heart attack a few years ago and since I'm careful with my diet now, haven't had even a mild chest pain since.

I like the wellness shot thing you mentioned, will do some Googling, thanks!

[Nixie]

132. Thanks for the tip! I have ignored that about coconut milk, but can't any longer.

I've always thought of plant based anything as being good to go, but I guess not always.

I mix coconut water with the ginger when blending and then add some pineapple juice to make the ginger shots easier to handle. Straight ginger can be kinda rough, lol.

[lapucelle]

129. "They altered it calling me a sea lion".

It's a sig line.

[Nixie]

133. Wow, there is no excuse for that. Your posts were nothing but factual and reality

based about Vermont. And how does that ridiculous screed ever stand. I wish I could put mine up! It would be epic.

Nice to see you, lapucelle! Your posts are always very informative, a must read for me.

[Cha]

78. Lol! 😎🤷‍♂️💕

[Sympthsical]

74. Wait, now the whole state of Vermont is implicated?!

As I said, reasonable, lol.

Well, she is a Hollywood type from NYC, so . . .

Ok, everyone. That's a wrap on California and New York. No more coasts for anyone. I declare *checks* Minnesota the one true state. (Minnesota's ok, right? Or did a libertarian mosquito bite a Working Families Party member there once?)

All true believers must purify themselves in the waters of Lake Minnetonka. It's what Prince would have wanted.

[UTUSN]

26. There's a light

[MrsCoffee]

38. Yea, used to be one of my favorite movies. But last decade Sarandon ruined it for me.

[Oopsie Daisy]

43. Yep. Thelma and Louise was ruined for me. (I even donated my DVD to Goodwill.)

[MrsCoffee]

44. +1

[UTUSN]

67. I should have marked it sarcasm

[Vinca]

45. I love this part of the country, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to live in Stamford, Vt.

It takes "boonies" to a whole new level. In any case, there are lots of off-the-grid homes around southern Vermont. She just got the wrong contractor. Maybe if she'd hired a local builder she'd have gotten a better quality house out of it. There are plenty of builders around here and they always need the work. Solar installers, too.

[Paladin]

62. Boo fucking hoo. (nt)

[LetMyPeopleVote]

76. I do not feel any sadness for Sarandon's problems

[Hortensis]

85. Maybe she should sue the Democratic Party for blocking the dream

of a communally owned living unit in a socialist economy. And the Republicans for not fulfilling her expectation for national collapse (fast, before Democrats could stop it) that she imagined would force socialized rebuilding.

She'd of course have been dead long before she was forced to abandon that dream, but as it is she need never admit that and the freedom to follow an aberrant personalized dream for herself is costing her a lot.

[Takket]

90. did the house get the USA into an unwanted war?

[Hortensis]

116. In a manner of speaking, yes. This actress wouldn't have

something like $60 million to blow on giant houses if we weren't an extremely wealthy nation with extremely wealthy people who are too often allowed to stack the international cards in their favor.

Allowed by some 240 MILLION eligible voters, most of whose choices (including this terminally silly, hypocritical beneficiary) can actually make wealthy opportunists look responsible in comparison.

[LessAspin]

96. Blue Beetle

Surprised to see her in Blue Beetle..

[inthewind21]

124. Entirely off the grid?