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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Couple Of References Were Made In Last Nights Debate About Dems Stand On Abortion.....
I just need a fact check here.
They said that the Dems are for abortion up to term.
Is that true? Or is that a Repug fabrication?
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leftieNanner
(16,159 posts)There is no such thing in my understanding.
machoneman
(4,128 posts)
global1
(26,507 posts)saying that this is a total fabrication by the Repugs?
Why aren't they refuting this claim? Seems to me they are missing an opportunity here.
I believe this comment came up last night at least two times.
What's up?
mahina
(20,645 posts)As it has often done and the fetus dies in utero, or cerainly will , I am 100% in favor of women not being forced by the government to carry the deceased fetus until sepsis and her own risk of death. Remember the woman in Ireland who died that way? We will have women in the US die that way. It’s a bullshit talking point that relies on ignorance and woman-shaming.
By the third trimester, the families already got little baby clothes and probably a crib and fixed up a space and they are looking forward to a very happy outcome. Even going through an abortion at that point that is necessary is an extremely tragic outcome for these people. If they had ever known anyone dealing with this problem, they could never forget how those folks and their partners walk around l, crying all day, brokenhearted. One couple I met were seeking a tiny urn and I wish I could forget their heartbreak. Making political hay off of them is just repulsive.
Ps it is a horrendous way to die. Shame on them for peddling this bullshit.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna35431
LAS14
(15,506 posts)I had a friend, decades ago, who had to carry a dead baby for three weeks until there was natural labor. I don't know if that was a legal or medical decision. I've heard some anti-abortion measures treat a dead fetus/baby this way.
ZonkerHarris
(25,577 posts)so maybe pay attention and not spread GOP talking points.
wnylib
(26,012 posts)Where have you been?
global1
(26,507 posts)no Dem refutes it - in the eyes and ears of the Repug listeners to yesterday's debate that heard that - they will believe that it's a fact versus a fabrication by the Repugs on stage.
This is a chance to nip this one in the bud right when it occurs.
We here on DU know it's not true - but the gullible sheep that heard it last night - need to hear that it's not true.
wnylib
(26,012 posts)Why are you promoting Republican talking points on a Democratic website?
Mariana
(15,626 posts)They already believe the lie. They want to believe the lie.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)Because our traitor media makes sure that you don't hear from them.
When are all of you going to wake up about how our traitor media are foot soldiers for the oligarchy, and they party they support? Did it never occur to you that the broadcast media, especially, have long advocated for the interests of the 1%--because they, too, are the 1%?
WAKE UP.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)is MURDER and has been against the law since the nation's foundation and even before (England).
SharonClark
(10,497 posts)post-birth abortion and their believers are too stupid to ask how that is possible.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)Republicans are in favor of killing living babies and have done so.
Pro-life to conservatives/republicans is a myth.
The supposed pro-lifers cared naught when the state of Texas (republican gov, republican Prez) deliberately killed living baby Sun Hudson against the mother's wishes because he was an inconvenience to the state.
It is not a matter of life to the supposed pro-lifers.
It is a matter of control.
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)
/s
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Have you heard ANY DEM ever say they were for abortion up to term? 
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)No.
Are some Democrats? Yes…even a couple in this site.
leftstreet
(40,680 posts)First I'd heard
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)Nope, I didn’t.
Deuxcents
(26,915 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)there are at least two people on DU calling for unrestricted abortion.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)You need to back off this as it is absolutely not true, but merely a deceptive interpretation of other's comments.
Response to hlthe2b (Reply #21)
Post removed
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)The question in the OP:
“I just need a fact check here.
They said that the Dems are for abortion up to term.
Is that true? Or is that a Repug fabrication?”
The answer is yea, some Dems are for abortion up to term. That is unrestricted abortion.
Nowhere have I said that unrestricted abortion (up to term) is the same as killing a child who has already been born. That’s simply a figment of your imagination.
Shame back at ya for accusing me of something I’ve neither said nor implied
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)by saying exactly that. And as one who actually sees/treats such cases in the ER in a state with legal abortion, it is beyond offensive. NO one kills a viable infant born live as you are implying. If they failed to resuscitate in such an instance, everyone in my ER would be calling police to file murder charges. If you are implying otherwise, you do not know what the hell you are talking about.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)Show me where I implied that people are killing babies post-birth?
If not, then you’re just full of shit and should own it.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)You are equating actively killing a viable infant pre-birth--providing no resuscitation with late term abortion. That is not legal--at all.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)I’ve spoken of abortion up to term…if you don’t understand what that means, that’s your problem, not mine.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)
Hekate
(100,133 posts)
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)
ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)Period
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)You keep saying I’ve done it, so prove it.
Except you can’t .
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)That implies abortion without resuscitation in a viable fetus. That is not legal and not what is being advocated. To suggest otherwise is RW propaganda that you, yourself are spreading.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)You clearly don’t understand basic terminology - up to term is just that - pre-birth.
Not post-birth, as you keep insisting.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)I'm done with you. I've had to treat such patients and your dismissal of how professionally such situations are dealt with--trying to save the mother while likewise giving the infant a chance if there is any hope and it is close to term/viability is beyond offensive and has no place here. Your lack of understanding might be understandable except for you attempt to smear other DUers with it.
wnylib
(26,012 posts)aborting a viable fetus up to term. And the law has never permitted that unless it was necessary to save the life of the pregnant woman. Even then, if the fetus is viable, every effort is made to save it.
When people say that they favor unrestricted abortion, they are talking about abortion for any reason up to viability (usually considered around 6 months).
In other words, if a woman is 4 or 5 months pregnant and decides that she does not want a child, and there is no medical reason to abort, they believe that she has the right to that choice. But, once a fetus is viable, no. I have NEVER seen any DU poster advocate for aborting a viable fetus without a medical reason. And neither have you.
Deuxcents
(26,915 posts)Can mean many things and to paint with a wide brush does not give Justice to others’ opinions. In my mind, unrestricted abortion means politics stay out of the decision. Abortion at term means, to me, that an unexpected emergency has occurred and the delivery is fatal to the either the mother or the soon to be newborn cannot survive. All this should be free from anything other than medical or science. We all have opinions on this very personal issue. I wish it could be left personal and society and the elected stay out of it. Imo.
leftstreet
(40,680 posts)
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)murder at birth which is what you refer to.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)Where did I imply murder at birth?
Put up or shut up - show me where I’ve done what you accuse me of.
whopis01
(3,919 posts)It is very clear from what you wrote that your usage of "up to term" meant prior to giving birth.
You didn't say "up to and including term" or something similar.
I can see how there could be some momentary confusion. If I said there was a contest where you could win up to $100, that would include $100 in the possibilities. But if I said I was going to walk up to the cliff edge, that doesn't mean I'm stepping over edge or even dangling my toes off of it.
The attempt to make it look like you are talking about murder after birth is disingenuous.
Just wanted to let you know that I, and I believe virtually anyone reading your comments, understood clearly what you were saying. And it felt more productive to let you know you were understood than argue with the other party more about it.
wnylib
(26,012 posts)I stand with posters who recognize that an abortion in the 3rd trimester means producing a live viable fetus, which medical teams would attempt to save. The only exceptions to a living birth at that stage would be: 1) the fetus had already died in the uterus BEFORE any attempt to remove it, or 2) the fetus had such serious biological defects that it did not survive despite attempts to save it.
So "up to term" means a viable fetus which would be able to live outside of the uterus.
Your silly "explanation" is just doublespeak that ignores biological realities.
whopis01
(3,919 posts)One person used the phrase “up to term” and the clearly meant anytime prior to birth.
Another poster disingenuously claimed that the first person was saying after birth. Even after the original person clarified what they were saying multiple times.
The second poster made it very clear that they were not talking about an unborn yet “viable fetus” but rather a “child born alive” (quoted from the second poster).
Your definition of “up to term” is exactly what the first poster was meaning when they used it. Despite you characterization of what I claimed the original poster meant by the phrase as “silly” and “doublespeak”, you apparently agree with it.
The majority of your response to me was a statement of your position on late term abortion. I want to make it clear that I made no statement regarding the justification for or morality of such a procedure. Nor will I ever do so in this forum.
I am not in a position to become pregnant. Nor have I ever been. I feel very strongly that this is a subject that should be decided by those who are directly impacted by it. I should not and do not speak for them.
wnylib
(26,012 posts)If you had any knowledge of human biology you would know that in the 3rd trimester (and sooner sometimes, e.g. at 6 months), a fetus is VIABLE. In other words, it is alive outside of the uterus, or capable of surviving with medical assistance. Therefore, if you claim that abortions occur after viability, you are claiming that a live baby is allowed to die.
Sometimes, for medical reasons, labor is induced early, to try to save both the viable fetus and the mother if there is a complication in the pregnancy that requires it. That is NOT an "abortion" in the way that you are using the term. That is a life saving effort.
But I think that you already know that and are deliberately twisting terminology. The abortion issues have been around far too long for anyone to be confused about this, except for people who promote the Republican anti abortion position.
If you genuinely don't understand, then educate yourself on late term pregnancies. If you do know better, you're barking up the wrong tree here, because DUers do know better than to swallow Republican talking points.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)limited in both states...now if a woman has a baby who has died late term which happened to me then it needs to be delivered as it can cause sepsis, and what is the point of carrying a dead baby? If a baby can't survive outside of the womb which recently happened and the baby lived for two hours gasping for breath...they knew this way before viability but were forced to carry the baby full term by the insane laws in their state. So, mind your business. It should always be the woman's choice. And the idea that Democratic women carry babies full term and then decide to abort them is a right-wing talking point. And should not be repeated on this site...it is a lie.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)…which is what dead things do. Every day after that the woman is increasingly risks sepsis from the dead thing inside her body. Sepsis will kill a person. Standard of care is to remove it asap, not wait for her to raise a fever and go into organ failure.
Is this an abortion to you? Is this the murder of a cute widdle baby?
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
REPUBLICANS LIE
yardwork
(69,364 posts)There are circumstances where medical care requires procedures that Republicans like to recast as something nefarious. Don't fall for it.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)Including in a thread participated in by some of those claiming in this thread that NO democrat has ever said it - and specifically that no one on DU has said it.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029400973
It's not the only time it's been said on DU; it was merely the only one I could find without remembering specifically who said what, and when. My recollection is there were several threads in the 2016-17 time frame in which more than one person on DU expressed this opinion.
It is NOT opinion of most democrats or most members of DU; most support some restrictions past the point of viability. But it is incorrect to assert, as fact, that no DEM and no member of DU has ever supported abortion through the entire pregnancy - until the moment of birth.
(I have never seen any democrat or member of DU advocate allowing taking life of a child AFTER birth, in this thread or at any other time.)
applegrove
(132,209 posts)global1
(26,507 posts)A lot of Repugs are walking away from that debate with the belief that Dems are for abortion up to term.
Knowing that this is a total fabrication by the Repugs - I just don't understand that in any of the analysis of this debate by the MSM - that neither they nor any Dems made comments to dispel that lie.
Why?
SharonClark
(10,497 posts)They’ve been indoctrinated for a long time.
Darwins_Retriever
(949 posts)Rests with the woman who may consult her doctor. The only reason a doctor would permit an abortion near term is if birth would kill or cause great harm to the woman. But it is still the woman's decision, it is never a governmental decision nor even a doctor's decision. This is the Democratic position on abortion.
Walleye
(44,805 posts)Deuxcents
(26,915 posts)SharonClark
(10,497 posts)not in any party or national platform that I’ve read.
CrispyQ
(40,969 posts)Life threatening situations occur throughout pregnancy & abortion should always be an option.
The nutjobs use it to spread the lie that women are carrying their pregnancies to term & then aborting them. Some CTs even say the woman & the doctor execute the baby to drain its blood, which I think is sold to the evil democrats. I have a family member who believes that.
Didn't you know that Biden is too old to be prez, but he drinks baby's blood to stay young? 
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)Who is talking about killing a baby after birth - no one else has even mentioned or implied that such a thing would be ok.
Why are you so focused on something that no one is saying but you?
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)Shame on you.
treestar
(82,383 posts)that a viable fetus at 8/9 months could be aborted?
Under Roe third term could be restricted. I never on DU saw anyone saying Roe did not go far enough.
The Rethugs want to claim the Democrats are OK with abortion of a viable fetus (could live outside the womb).
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)That is not the same as opining on what the current law permits.
In 2016-17 there were threads - generally featuring people who called themselves pro-abortion, rather than pro-life - in which people advocated for this policy. Some individuals in those threads asserted that abortion should be a woman's choice up to the RIGHT UP UNTIL THE PRECIOUS SECONDS BEFORE BIRTH. I've only been able to find one, due to the difficulty in framing a search. My recollection is that the person I quoted was not the only one, nor was the thread containing that post the only one.
Sometimes people on our side say stupid things - but denying that happens doesn't help our case. Instead we need to distance ourselves from the minority who believe and say such things.
CrispyQ
(40,969 posts)There is no common ground with people like this.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)I just can't ig.nore this crap, no matter how much I try. It is painful
CrispyQ
(40,969 posts)
edhopper
(37,370 posts)because there are times when there is a medical emergency that requires a very late abortion. Often when the fetus dies or can't survive.
But this is NOT abortion on demand up till birth. Which is what these assholes are saying.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)mother. At the point of near or viability, there would be attempts to deliver the infant and resuscitate it, but knowing it could die if delivered at that point--with the priority being to save the life of the mother.
Late-term abortion is not the same as actively killing a delivered infant. THAT IS MURDER. I know. Ask anyone else who likewise works in the ERs in states where abortion remains legal.
edhopper
(37,370 posts)as late term abortion.
hlthe2b
(113,965 posts)SharonClark
(10,497 posts)“Democrats want abortion on demand until birth”.
LymphocyteLover
(9,847 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 24, 2023, 05:48 PM - Edit history (1)
yardwork
(69,364 posts)As explained by health care providers in this thread, sometimes medical procedures are necessary for the health of the mother.
That's why the decision about a woman's health should be up to her, not lawmakers.
This is a red herring that Republicans trot out to scare people. It's sad to see it on DU.
edhopper
(37,370 posts)it is only when there is a medical crisis. But they want to ban that too.
LymphocyteLover
(9,847 posts)edhopper
(37,370 posts)the "baby carriers".
No woman is going to abort a viable fetus that late in the term. That is a wanted child. But the right wants to accuse pro-choicers of being fine with someone letting it take that long to decide on an abortion.
Response to global1 (Original post)
edhopper This message was self-deleted by its author.
NowISeetheLight
(4,002 posts)Like the insane claims Dems favor post birth abortion too. My answer to that us "No... that would be like the Nazis and the ovens with Jewish kids... and we know which parties supporters like Nazis".
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)they first have to put the child back in the mother's womb. At this point, the kid might be a bit large.
LymphocyteLover
(9,847 posts)to deliver normally. But for God's sake, let this be between the mother and the doctor!
Response to global1 (Original post)
NowISeetheLight This message was self-deleted by its author.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)Hope232
(62 posts)is what the Repugs were referring to. It was legislation that passed in the House, but failed in the Senate. It would've allowed on-demand abortion at any point of the pregnancy. Now, I've seen some people in this thread say a woman would not carry a baby to term only to abort it except for medical issues or a health threat to the mother. But that is not the issue here. The Act would've not have differentiated the reason for the abortion. Sometimes, birth defects would not be detected until past the point of viability, or when the fetus can survive on its own outside the womb, which is considered at around 24 weeks. Some women might opt for abortion late in the pregnancy if she finds out the fetus would have life-long mental or physical issues. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, as it's not for me to say.
Personally, I would've liked to see that act pass myself.
But to answer your question, that's what the people on the GOP debate stage were talking about.
Shrek
(4,428 posts)The minute anyone attempts a denial they'll ask for a specific point in pregnancy beyond which abortion could be regulated.
Few if any Democratic politicians would be willing to commit to a specific timeline.