Has it been discovered who built the hanging stand and noose?

[mysteryowl]

I thought maybe with over '1000' J6 Nazis' convicted that the truth of who made it would come out.
Does anyone know?

[Mz Pip]

1. Good question

There must be CCTV footage of people dragging that thing in and setting it up.

[Ohioboy]

2. Good question

It's not like someone just had it in their pocket.

[Happy Hoosier]

3. Unlikely to be prosecutable.

The scaffold was not functional, and likely would be protected 1st A speech. Or at least hard to prove it wasn't.

[mysteryowl]

4. Oh, I didn't know it was only a prop and would not work.

It looked real to me.

[Happy Hoosier]

6. Yeah, Made of plywood and a few 4x4's...

.... no way it could support an actual body. No braces or anything.

[Aristus]

27. I guess they figured what with Mike Pence being a lightweight and all...

[Blues Heron]

33. It was braced

Those posts go all the way to the ground, braced by the platform. It would definitely have worked.

[former9thward]

52. It would not have worked.

It was a symbol. It was much too small.

The gallows was too small and weak to be used, Persson said. It was erected as a symbol.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/noose-displayed-at-capitol-insurrection-in-fbis-custody/2863204/

That statement is coming from the man who retrieved the noose.

[Blues Heron]

55. It's like the bat signal - the minute the gallows gets brought up, the gaslighting begins.

A gallows is just strong sticks, a rope, and an angry mob. check, check, and check.

I truly doubt you would have volunteered to test it out to prove it’s flimsiness (since when are 4x4s flimsy anyway?)

[former9thward]

64. Gaslighting by someone who was there?

I will believe that person over an anonymous internet poster. Maybe the DOJ is gaslighting by not prosecuting someone for it...

[LuckyCharms]

42. A 4x4 would absolutely support a body. And with that short span, even a

2x4 set on it's edge, rather than laying flat, would also.

[Blues Heron]

45. it was very real. The gaslighting continues though. Good thing we have pics

[LuckyCharms]

5. It looked like it would have done the job via strangulation.

[Happy Hoosier]

7. Probably not....

It was flimsy.

[LuckyCharms]

8. It was, but it was strong enough for someone to stand on since it appears

that you would have to stand on it to attach the top beam and the noose. If it is strong enough to stand on, it's strong enough to at least try to choke someone out with the noose.

[Happy Hoosier]

9. Possibly, but....

The frame itself had no braces... the torque at the base would rip the frame apart pretty easily. ANd from some pics, it noose is low enough that there isn;t enough actual room for someone to dangle.

Not saying it wasn't a threat... just saying there is lots of room for reasonable doubt on THIS issue.

[LuckyCharms]

11. Well, they could have put his head in the noose, kicked him off of the platform, and

at least fucked with him and perhaps seriously injured him. And if the frame collapsed, he would have fallen to the ground with a noose around this neck and lumber falling on his head.

And I have no doubt they would have at least tried.

[brooklynite]

32. Except of course for the heavily armed Secret Service accompanying him.

[LuckyCharms]

36. They could have put anyone they wanted to in that noose.

Not necessarily Pence.

Perhaps a Democratic Congressperson.

I don't think they would have been particularly choosey.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

57. They didn't need to stand on the platform

You hammer together the crossbar to the support beams. Tie the noose onto it. Lift it to vertical, and join it with the rest.

Happens all the time in construction. I should know--my gran-da was in construction. I watched his crew put up many a home by putting together the outer frames, then lifting them up and hammering them together. The more you can do on the ground, the less risk of injury to the crew.

[LuckyCharms]

62. There's several pics of people standing on it. Like this:

It could have been constructed several different ways. My point is that it can support body weight.

[obamanut2012]

21. It would absolutely have held Pelosi

And killed her via strangulation.

[wnylib]

39. See #33.

[mysteryowl]

10. I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't it be prosecutable for intent to murder, I wonder?

[Happy Hoosier]

12. Not and get a conviction, IMO

My BS is in Mechanical Engineering and I think a very good argument could be made that the "scaffold" was intended a protest prop, not an actuial method of execution. It simply isn't structurally sound enough for that prupose, IMO. I think it'd be hard to convince 12 people it was a serious execution device.

[tanyev]

31. It still speaks to advance planning on excoriating Pence as a supposed traitor.

Trump continued to lean on him up to the last minute and IIRC the mob was already in the building when Trump tweeted out that Pence had made the “wrong” decision. Yet the gallows prop was already assembled and in place. It would interesting to know who brought it and who was communicating with that person.

[wnylib]

41. Are death threats protected speech?

Because the message of that scaffold was a death threat.

[former9thward]

53. Yes, it is protected.

Which is why it was not prosecuted.

[wnylib]

61. Really? Death threats are protected speech?

Better notify DOJ because they are arresting people who made death threats against poll workers.

[former9thward]

63. Specific threats against specific people.

Different than a model gallows. Since you are encouraging me to notify the DOJ maybe you should do the same and ask why no one was prosecuted for the gallows.

[wnylib]

68. Well, that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

A lot of us think that DOJ should follow up on the gallows threat, if there isn't already an investigation that we don't know about. "Hang Mike Pence" is pretty specific about person and intent to do harm, regardless of whether or not the gallows was functional.

[Judi Lynn]

35. What if they led Pence right to their contraption, and he had a heart attack?

[mysteryowl]

37. Oh, Ms Judi...

I laughed when I read your comment.

Laughed because you thought of it.

[Irish_Dem]

18. Are people allowed to put a noose and scaffold on the front lawns of people we don't like?

[Hekate]

22. Burning a cross in someone's front yard is not "protected speech" and this is similar in intent

The intent being terrorism.

Leaving a noose in someone’s workplace is also not “protected speech.” Instead is is classifoed as “hate speech.”

I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

[Bongo Prophet]

13. When I was reviewing footage for sedition hunters group, others carried ropes inside

Inside the Capitol, that is. Many stairwells and other places were available to facilitate the use of those ropes.

Just like the zip ties, people came prepared for some torture theater. If that flimsy gallows had been used after they pulled people out, it would have likely broken. However, mob logic and history strongly suggest that they would have just torn people apart anyway. Probably using the broken wood pieces as weapons.

So even though the gallows was shoddy, it should be taken literally as a signal of intent, as well as an example of bad carpentry. To minimize it would be beside the point.

[cbabe]

14. Noose is a threat much like nooses found on worksites. Prosecute on that basis.

[mysteryowl]

15. very good point

[hlthe2b]

16. Whether merely a prop or not the individual should be exposed for bringing it

and given his presence, my guess is there would be a lot of other crimes to try him for and the noose would simply be attributed to his motivations--real or not-- at sentencing. Even a non-functional scaffold could be used to intimidate the target and/or to incite the crowd--just like a mannequin in a noose.

[mysteryowl]

17. Good point

[localroger]

19. Also what happened to it?

Even though it was more of a prop than a functional platform it was a non-trivial bit of kit. I find it hard to believe that the rioters took it with them when they retreated. So where is it?

[mysteryowl]

24. Maybe classified top secret evidence

and stored at the library of congress?

[femmedem]

28. The FBI has it.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/noose-displayed-at-capitol-insurrection-in-fbis-custody/2863204/

[ForgedCrank]

20. You do

know that the thing was like 3-4 ft tall, right?
It was a prop. A stupid one, but still just a prop.

[Blues Heron]

34. 3-4 feet tall? I think not

Look again

[ForgedCrank]

46. You want

me to believe the intended to actually hang someone with this thing? yea, so my guess was a foot off maybe.
Sorry. No sale. It's a prop, a strong breeze would blow it over.

[Blues Heron]

48. that bike is 3-4 feet, those people are 5-6 feet tall - that thing is way higher than they are

Would you stick your head through that noose and jump off to prove how safe it is? No of course not, it would probably work as intended. Those are well braced 4x4 uprights, with a stout rope attached.

[mysteryowl]

56. Hmm... If the floor dropped open it would work

[former9thward]

66. Look again.

It is four feet at the most. Unless you thinks the steps are two feet each.

[wnylib]

43. And it's a death threat, just like burning a cross on someone's lawn

or putting a noose in a kid's locker at school.

It carries a threatening message of intent to do bodily harm.

[ForgedCrank]

47. I don't

take everything I see as literal, this thing included.
I see dumb props and visual stuff at protests all the time (in photos). I don't think they are literal threats.
And no, I'm not defending these assholes, I'm simply staying in the realm of reason. No one was going to hang anyone, it conveys a mood. Yes, I find it inappropriate, but that's what protesters do, they try to shock everyone for attention.

[Blues Heron]

49. did you miss the part where they were trying to kill cops?

that was a murderous mob bro

[ForgedCrank]

51. No, I

didn't miss that part.
But what does it have to do with that platform being a prop?
It was a gathering of the dumbasses. I get it, and I agree. And yes, a lot of them were violent, I agree. But no one was going to hang Mike Pence in the center of the Capitol square in broad daylight, let alone with that tacked together piece of miniature junk. It was a prop.

[Iggo]

23. Doesn't matter who built it.

[mysteryowl]

26. Okay, great. I guess that is solved.

[Iggo]

29. Hey, if it bugs you, it bugs you.

To me, it’s basically the same as “Who wrote the most offensive sign?” And I don’t really think that matters.

Tell you what I’m really interested in: “Who planted the bombs?”

[mysteryowl]

38. Yep, that too. Yes, explosives is a really big deal!

[Polybius]

25. What hanging stand and noose?

I must have missed the news story.

[mysteryowl]

40. From J6

We are still talking about it and will be for a very long time.

[LiberalFighter]

30. That would suggest to me intent.

[Gore1FL]

44. It had a sign on it declaring itself as art or some-such.

The Noose wasn’t tied correctly. It was built out of scrap.

I don’t think it was a crime, but an exercise in incompetence.

[Blues Heron]

50. would you have volunteered to test it out to show how flimsy it was? doubt it

it really doesnt take much to hang someone in an angry mob

[former9thward]

54. Really?

Maybe you can point to where a public official was hanged by a public mob.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

59. That would not have held together

The top crossbar is barely covering the support beams--to be functional, it would need to cover them--if not extend beyond them. In the old construction for hanging platforms, the builders even put in thick wooden braces from the vertical posts to the crossbar, to make sure everything stayed in place.

They did the cross braces for a reason, you know. Namely, to keep the crossbar from coming down. And that was with people who knewthe crossbar had to extend over, and be nailed to, the entire vertical beam.

I don't think you realize how strong a person's body is when it's in death throes from hanging. Most of the time, the body will convulse hard--hard enough to bring down the entire structure if it doesn't have adequate support. That lack of braces and a crossbar barely nailed on would have had this shoddy construct falling apart from even a small elderly woman kicking around.

[Gore1FL]

65. The knot would not have worked.

I'd be happy to test it; a simple yank would bring it down. I would not do it in a mob of people who hate me.

[Mysterian]

58. That is a perfectly functional gallows

strong enough to support a human body.

I'm not clear why anyone would think that gallows could not kill a human.

[WarGamer]

60. historically protected speech... common at political rallies and protest marches.

?width=1200

[GenThePerservering]

67. It was flimsy and the noose wouldn't have worked

200 lb of swinging, jerking, leg wheeling panic would have brought that thing right down. Besides, was there even a drop?

These people are as fake as their stupid props.

And yes, dragging those things around is legal - that kind of street theatre has been prominent in riots, etc., for centuries. It really doesn't matter who made it.