This whole goddamn mess may turn into the story of the century

[Joinfortmill]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/05/politics/special-counsel-election-probe-continues-fundraising-voting-equipment-breaches-sidney-powell/index.html

'CNN Exclusive: Special counsel election probe continues with focus on fundraising, voting equipment breaches'

Washington CNN
—
'Special counsel Jack Smith is still pursuing his investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election a month after indicting Donald Trump for orchestrating a broad conspiracy to remain in power, a widening of the probe that raises the possibility others could still face legal peril...'

[we can do it]

1. So true. But the DOJ bashers wanted extremely complex case tried in 2 months.

[gab13by13]

4. Why say something that isn't true?

The people who you call bashers only wanted Donald Trump and his inner circle investigated early on, not 2 years later.

Why was it OK for DOJ to wait so long to begin investigating?

The argument in the beginning was that DOJ doesn't leak, was doing investigations in secret, well that narrative has been totally shot down.

IF DOJ had investigated Trump early on he may be sitting in a courtroom right now.

Jack Smith did more in 9 months than Merrick Garland did in 2 years: re: investigating Trump and his inner circle.

Why do you think that Jack Smith only indicted Trump in the J6 prosecution? He did so because his #1 strategy is that Time Matters to get Trump to trial before the election and if that doesn't happen we have DOJ to blame for waiting so long.

Do you want to see a Trump trial before the election? Do you think it doesn't matter how long it takes to get Trump to trial?

Do you understand that the insurrection didn't end on J6, 2021, that it is ongoing, fomented by Trump and his traitorous allies.

[Joinfortmill]

12. I never understood the Garland criticisms...

I think Garland cleared the way for Smith, whom he chose and who was a brilliant choice, by scooping up all the militants first. I think we will learn all the facts when this is all over.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

14. Precisely. J6 and Garland cleared the path through the woods...impatience is a product of

social media need for speed…in real courts and real law real evidence needs to be gathered and proofed and organized and presented before real people in a real court, all,of whom have real calendars to fill in.

The What’s taking so long crowd can’t release themselves from the temporal fixation fantasy.

[gab13by13]

18. One has to investigate first before it can obtain evidence.

Just like the J6 committee did.

[True Blue American]

23. Thank you,

And that is not done over night. They had to interview hundreds of people to build a case.

They have to build an air tight case before thet can present it and Jack Smith is brilliant.

I just realized the poll came from the Wall Street Journal's. They are right to the core!

[gab13by13]

17. Then Time doesn't matter to you?

Do you care whether Trump is brought to trial before the election?

Is it good investigative practice to wait 2 years to investigate crimes?

Jack Smith got more evidence against Trump and his inner circle from Nancy Pelosi's J6 select committee than it got from DOJ, that is shameful.

The Michigan AG sent a criminal referral to the feds about the fake electors in Michigan because she believed that the fake elector scandal was widespread throughout many states. Dana Nessel waited a year for DOJ to investigate and then opened up the case herself when DOJ did nothing.

I have numerous more examples.

[Joinfortmill]

25. If these comments are directed at me...

I believe they are unwarranted.

[gab13by13]

27. I have no intention to upset you personally,

I try to only discuss the issues, and I comment on the issues. I respect everyone's right to his/her opinion.

Do you disagree with the truthfulness of my post?

[Beastly Boy]

39. Try backing up your examples with facts. You may find yourself completely unprepared

for the task.

[lostnfound]

49. You have lots of facts, but boy some seem to be ganging up in you

Odd. When I reply to you in support, I see defensiveness from others. Seems to me that your refrain “Time Matters” is a full and complete answer all by itself.

[claudette]

13. Agree

100%. Garland could have appointed Jack Smith a LONG time ago just like he appointed one IMMEDIATELY for Joe Biden’s classified documents case

[Alexander Of Assyria]

15. Jack Smith was busy prosecuting war criminals at the time...need evidence gathering first...

that’s how criminal charges work…evidence first, law analysis next, charges next…then usually a trial before the sentencing.

[gab13by13]

19. I totally agree,

we needed evidence gathering. Not one of the "war criminals" who attacked the Capitol has flipped on Trump or his inner circle.

What Garland did prosecuting war criminals was fantastic, was necessary in sending a message to the unwashed Magats, but DOJ is a big tent organization capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. DOJ had the ability to investigate Trump and his inner circle
early on but chose not to.

[OneGrassRoot]

26. First, how do you know that for a fact, or are you presuming?

Secondly, it seems like even some higher-level J6 defendants (higher in the MAGA foot soldier pyramid) have pointed directly at Trump as being responsible for J6 as part of their defense. That is significant for the prosecutors.

Attorneys for the Proud Boys placed blame for the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol on Donald Trump in closing arguments in their seditious conspiracy trial Tuesday.

An attorney for Enrique Tarrio, the head of the Proud Boys, said federal prosecutors were trying to make him a "scapegoat for Donald J. Trump and for those in power." A lawyer for Joe Biggs said the defendants came to Washington because their "commander-in-chief" told them it would "be wild," referring to Trump's infamous tweet on Dec. 19, 2020, that called on supporters to come to Washington on Jan. 6.

“‘Be there, it’s going to be wild,’ the commander-in-chief said. And so they did,” Norm Pattis, an attorney for Biggs, told jurors, adding that “their commander-in-chief sold them a lie.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/proud-boys-blame-trump-defendants-prepare-find-fate-sedition-trial-rcna81234

The sheer arrogance of the hardcore anti-Garland and pro-Garland or anti/pro anything crowd is what always gets me. The truth is we just don't KNOW...not yet. And perhaps the fact that you don't KNOW by this point what has truly transpired and is transpiring may be the most frustrating issue, which I can respect.

[gab13by13]

29. I have no disrespect for Merrick Garland,

he is an honorable, patriotic man who would have made a fantastic SC Justice.

I do disagree with Garland's failure to investigate Trump and his inner circle early on, it could have made a difference in getting Trump to trial before the election.

Garland did a fantastic job indicting the unwashed Magats. None of the indicted J6 Magats have flipped on Trump and his inner circle, they repeated what Trump said publicly.

We do know that Dana Nessel asked DOJ to investigate the fake electors in Michigan and waited a year before having to open up the investigation herself. When Jack Smith took over he subpoenaed people and documents from Michigan which sure looks like DOJ had done little.

The stolen top secret documents was a serious crime. DOJ should have worked with the National Archives early on in investigating the theft of top secret documents. The National Archives has an investigative group that tried to do the investigation but after a year had to ask DOJ for help.

We do know that when Cassidy Hutchinson testified before the J6 committee it was news to DOJ, it embarrassed DOJ into action. Why hadn't DOJ already spoken with Cassidy Hutchinson? Why did Jack Smith get more evidence against Trump and his inner circle from the J6 committee than it got from DOJ, that is what the lead J6 investigator said.

[OneGrassRoot]

34. I just don't understand your incessant beating drum...

any time this subject is mentioned, in any capacity. You're obsessed with criticizing the DOJ, regardless of any respect you may have for Garland. What is your purpose at this point with this constant haranguing? Let's say you're right. What good does this constant criticism do? I am certainly not suggesting we never criticize or critic Garland or Biden or, really, anyone, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum or their level of power. But you really appear to have a strong agenda here of nonstop berating. To what end? Anyone who has been here for more than a week knows how you feel.

It's not only when there's a post criticizing or chastising people such as yourself who have been vocal critics of the DOJ's timeline, it's whenever this subject is mentioned.

I find it puzzling and curious. But, you do you.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

56. +1

I don't understand the assumption that trump going to trial before the election is a kind of magical moment. I don't understand what is expected to change? He's been indicted four times, and faces multiple civil cases. How is going to trial before the election going to matter?

One way I can guess it could possibly matter, is if that sack of crap gets acquitted. I'm sure that outcome wouldn't affect the election at all.

[lostnfound]

40. WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING MERRICK GARLAND!?!? I'm so sick of these Garland-HATERS!

[OneGrassRoot]

45. Perhaps read my reply more closely...

It's not as simple as "attacking Merrick Garland" as your sarcasm emoji denotes, as though I'm constantly defending Garland and the DOJ. I'm genuinely curious and have asked about it previously but don't get a response.

[wnylib]

41. Armchair AG

[Alexander Of Assyria]

48. Armchairing law is ok, but better that professionals with knowledge and skills are seated.

Don’t get out of the armchair and into the real world without a diploma!

[Torchlight]

51. Speculating?

[claudette]

52. That

Doesn’t explain why Garland appointed a special counsel on President Biden. One is appointed to FIND evidence then indict, etc

[chowder66]

55. It is to avoid conflicts of interest.

[claudette]

59. But

does not answer the question WHY Garland didn’t appoint a special investigator IMMEDIATELY IMMEDIATELY for Dump. In my view THAT was a mistake.

[vlyons]

28. ongoing in a myriad of ways

suppressing the vote, wholesale purging of voter rolls, intimidating election workers is all part of GOP tactics to steal elections.

[gab13by13]

30. 2 years ago Merrick Garland created a commission to address

threats to election workers and other public officials. Since then there have been thousands of criminal referrals with 14 arrests. The problem is that we do not have adequate laws to deal with domestic terrorism, law enforcement's hands are tied. In Canada the Proud Boys have been designated a terrorist organization, in the US Proud Boy membership is growing.

[wnylib]

36. .

[Beastly Boy]

38. DOJ investigation began on January 7

Did it wait too long?

DOJ didn't leak for at least 7 months of the investigation, which, BTW, prompted all the ridiculous conjectures by DOJ bashers

DOH investigated Trump in 2021, and this is the reason Trump is a frequent visitor to a whole bunch of courtrooms right now

Jack Smith did more in 9 months BECAUSE of what Garland has done in 2 years, which, BTW, includes appointing Jack Smith

Jack Smith didn't ONLY indict Trump in the J6 investigation. Mar a Lago indictments have nothing to do with J6.

Time doesn't matter. There is nothing that would prevent Trump from running or winning the election. It is not DOJ's job to determine the outcome.

Everybody read the OP. We all understand that the insurrection is ongoing, hence Smith's continuing investigation. Don't be so condescending.

And stop the nonsense.

[Jarqui]

43. "Why was it OK for DOJ to wait so long to begin investigating?"

How do we know this? How do we know your allegation of "begin" is accurate?

DoJ keeps its cards close to its vest.

We know to some extent there has been some bottom up approach to get people to flip on those higher up.
DoJ was legally challenged by Trump which caused a number of delays. ie "executive privilege"
Some was delayed by Trump paying for lawyers of the others accused who were not forthright until they flipped.
etc


We also know Fani Willis started independently shortly after Jan 6, 2021. The famous Trump phone call GA Sec of State to 'find' Trump votes occurred during her 2nd day on the job.
Fani was legally challenged by Trump which caused a number of delays.
Fani arrived at a roughly similar indictment place as the Feds in terms of timing.

We know both got hung up on the House not releasing everything they had until their report was done.

The fact is we really don't know.
We shouldn't be passing much firm judgement until we know all the facts.

[MineralMan]

46. Why assume the poster is referring to you?

That's sort of weird, really.

[Sky Jewels]

60. Thank you!

This exactly.

Garland sat on his hands for way too long. He was afraid of appearing "political" -- even though the very survival of our democracy was at stake!

[OldBaldy1701E]

6. No, I'd say they wanted the law to be equally applied.

None of us would have been able to walk out of an arrest and indictment five minutes after being arrested. They wanted that ornage gibbon and his cronies to be treated as the rest of us would have been had we done anything half as bad as what they did. But, they have not been and they won't be. I feel that this is what is bothering those 'bashers' you speak of.

[Orrex]

72. This. 100% this. 100,000% this.

All along the cheerleaders have been insulting, ridiculing, degrading, and belittling anyone who's dared to suggest that maybe just maybe things could have been different.

And, in spite of observable reality, the cheerleaders have insisted since day one what we have one system of justice equally applied to all. Meanwhile Trump all but literally shits on the judges' heads, and as punishment he receives a series of polite, non-binding requests that he stop shitting on the judges' heads, if that's ok with him.

Meanwhile a street-level drug dealer in my town was arrested and held without bond pending trial. But Trump zips around the country whipping his fuckhead kkkultists into insurrectionist frenzy.

Much of the "bashers'" complaint would vanish if certain vocal parties would drop the obvious lie that we are all equal under the law.

[Scrivener7]

74. There are only, like, nine of them, but they do seem unable to

disagree without insulting and swarming, don't they?

[ecstatic]

70. not true, but Jack Smith seems to understand the urgency required

Hence getting the major indictments out first while still working on the other crimes in the background. That's all anyone wanted. An understanding of the clock to avoid trump from winning and pardoning himself (which would effectively end our democracy).

[bucolic_frolic]

2. Yes, Jack focuses on the center of the conspiracy right now but it has tentacles far and wide

politically, temporally, geographically, financially. Could endure for years. Exiting members of Congress could be vulnerable as they leave office.

[gab13by13]

7. Why wait until they leave Congress?

Scott perry was a ring leader of the fake elector scheme, he had his phone seized over a year ago by the FBI and accessing the contents of his phone is being held up in the courts.

Are you saying that sitting members of Congress have immunity from prosecution?

[wiggs]

50. correct. Isn't Ukraine blackmail part of the conspiracy to overturn? Will they stumble upon

some foreign money bankrolling Tfg efforts? Russia connections?

How about getting Rohrbacher under subpoena? Flynn? Bannon for transporting campaign info to Russia? I bet there are countless 'deals' and money transfers we don't know about.

Yes, largest criminal conspiracy in history given all its connections.

[czarjak]

3. Leave no Stone unturned.

[tanyev]

21. Ha!

[TurboDem]

5. I hope when the election interference trials and J6 trials are finished

SC Smith starts looking into the trump/russia connection. No one will ever convince me that russia didn't put trump in the White House.

[bucolic_frolic]

8. It's an extension of the Cold War

We fought long and hard for free and fair elections post-war in eastern Europe. USSR wanted puppet states and communism - no private enterprise or profits. So Putin, former KGB, is exacting vengeance.

[orangecrush]

32. +1

[gab13by13]

10. Mueller already proved it.

Mueller indicted or got guilty pleas from 34 people and 3 companies:

Paul Manafort
Michael Flynn
13 Russian nationals
3 Russian companies
Konstantin Kilimnik
12 Russian GRU officers

[2naSalit]

9. I expect there to be many heads to roll...

In the future. All the Congressional and other office holders and accomplices will likely see indictments too. In the immediate, cutting the head off the snake is essential to our survival as a country. There will be more to come for some time.

ETA: We are dealing with a multi-headed snake, we can only see one or two of them right now.

[gab13by13]

11. When Scott Perry is indicted

I will stop believing that members of Congress have immunity from prosecution.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

16. Yea. No statute of limitations on coup plotting. 1000 indictments already...but not enough, or not

fast enough…there will always be complainers…social media created an army.

Prison for decades for the militia people leaders…not enough…hundreds convicted…not enough…4 indictments, 90 solid criminal charges against an ex president…not enough…

Personally had enough of the hair pulling for no reason other than self mutilation.

[gab13by13]

20. Garland did a fantastic job prosecuting the unwashed Magats,

it was necessary to send a message.

The insurrection did not end on J6, 2021, it is ongoing. There has been an increase in Proud Boy and Oath keeper membership since J6.

DOJ has its hands tied because we do not have adequate laws to handle domestic terrorism. The Proud Boys have been designated a terrorist organization in Canada, in the US its membership is growing.

DOJ set up a commission 2 years ago to deal with threats against election workers and other public officials. There have been thousands of criminal complaints filed but so far there have only been 14 arrests. We need better laws to deal with domestic violence, domestic terrorism.

[Beastly Boy]

42. It was necessary to serve justice.

Sending a message was not DOJ's job. It was a side effect.

[lostnfound]

44. The sentences on the Proud Boy leaders are encouraging, as is the Fani Willis prosecution.

Excellent point about the threats against election workers. In fact your posts are full of excellent points.

Those who oversimplify and perceive them only as ‘attacks on Garland’ do not have the insight that you do.

The conversion of democracies to fascist states is a set of processes, not a person. Being alarmed about the delay is founded on the justifiable belief that fascism is continuing to strengthen at a pace that is faster than the speed of prosecution for the the lynchpin and leaders of the fascist movement. Therefore, fuel for that fascist movement has been growing hourly.

I am considerably heartened by the recent sentences of the proud boys, as well as the multi-pronged prosecution of trump. Ain’t out of the woods yet.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

47. No hate speech laws means America is powerless, Canada used the power...look, no coup!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

57. +1

Agree.

Some people just aren't happy unless they are miserable, and spreading the misery around.

[True Blue American]

24. So true!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. I should hope so: "others could still face legal peril" . . . . nt

[Martin68]

31. It already IS the Story of the Century. An ex-president, running for office again facing 91 charges.

[LymphocyteLover]

33. Isn't it already the story of the century? How this one man completely corrupted an entire

party and almost brought down our democracy?

[mountain grammy]

35. It's already the story of the century..

like the 2016 election.. how about a deep dive into that debacle that gave us an illegitimate president and 3, count em, THREE illegitimate Supreme Court Justices. The real Crime of the Century but I digress. Elections are only contested when a Democrat wins.. riiiiiiight!

[Alexander Of Assyria]

63. The Return of Fascism, American style, now with 1000 nukes, IS the story of the 21st century.

[True Blue American]

37. Do something about our totally corrupt

Last edited Tue Sep 5, 2023, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Supreme Court who threw out Citizens United and cut out the flow of hidden Money!

[GoodRaisin]

58. Lifetime appointments invite corruption

like a big neon sign.

[calimary]

61. So that's one of the FIRST things we have to change.

NO.

MORE.

LIFETIME.

APPOINTMENTS!!!

[GoodRaisin]

64. +1

[onetexan]

77. THIS!!☝️

[Alexander Of Assyria]

65. Pure political partisan appointment is the poison, lifetime was ok when not so poisoned.

[GoodRaisin]

68. How do you know?

Yes, partisan appointment is bad. But how do we know how long the corruption has gone on?

[calimary]

78. But the problem with it is - some of these Supremes outlive their relevancy.

When you’re ruling based on how it “used to be” or “always was”, you’re not in touch with evolving, changing times and/or morals. You have to reflect the times you’re IN. NOT the times of your youth or your heyday when you were in your 30s. Do we, indeed, want to live by decisions hard-baked into the reality of one or two generations ago? That no longer apply to the realities of today? Do you really want to try getting on the freeway in a Model-A Ford? It wasn’t designed for that. Its designers weren’t designing for the future. They were looking at their today.

[Talitha]

53. I'd like to see Ginni Thomas get hauled in.

[Scrivener7]

75. I'd get out the lawn chairs and the cocktail shaker for that!

[Hortensis]

54. Yes, this is huge. Investigations, federal and states', continue..

I'm so glad.

[lpbk2713]

62. The loss of coastal Florida cities will be the story of the century.

Uninhabitable buildings will be left to decay.

[Joinfortmill]

66. That too.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

67. Faster than light theory confirmed...or anti gravity device...staying positive on the future story!

Quantum battery, fusion energy, world ban on social media on smartphones…lots of great stories to be written!

[leftyladyfrommo]

69. I just read a story on this on Raw Story. This is

unbelievable. The whole 2020 election fraud thing was nothing but a huge grift. The Trump PAC made 250,000,000 from it all. Other politicians made money n it.

It was all a huge scam.

[republianmushroom]

71. Just fleecing the sheep.

[czarjak]

73. Trump was right, "You're going to be sick of winning."

Because the next time someone says that, it'll be the first time.

[onetexan]

76. Keeping it in place is right bc there's alot more to unpack

Cruz, Hawley, Rubio, the RW clowns in the House - all of them need to be charged with RICO & rounded up.