Are we throwing away Nancy Pelosi now because she wasn't enthusiastic about Kamala?

[Pisces]

Nancy gave a very dry endorsement of the VP. She knows the internal polling and she knows that no matter how much cheerleading we do, the VP is not giving the American people confidence with an 80+ yr old President. I don’t need to hear the the litany of how smart, or great she is. I am voting for he ticket. It is the 5 to 7% of floating voters that we need to convince. How we as a party did not prepare for all eventualities in this situation is beyond me. I am scared to death for my children.

Nancy Pelosi seemed to offer a less-than-ringing endorsement when asked if Kamala Harris was the best running mate for Joe Biden next year, saying: “He thinks so, and that’s what matters.”



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/14/nancy-pelosi-kamala-harris-joe-biden-running-mate

[marble falls]

1. You worry too much.

[Recycle_Guru]

3. why the fuck all the "sky is falling" posts

I seem to remember Biden - Harris doing very well in 2020.

[Pisces]

7. That was 4 yrs ago and things have changed. We are taking democracy for granted like its always

Going to be there. Look to the Romans for historical perspective.

[relayerbob]

21. Speak for yourself

[marble falls]

27. First of all, explain how the Romans even begin to compare to the USA.

[Scrivener7]

30. Really?

[marble falls]

31. Really. How?

[Recycle_Guru]

35. you know how Romans picked leaders based on military leadership

in battle from Consuls of Roman senate and through the line of Caesars? Well, we also have leaders who led armies--oh wait. the last 5 presidents never served in the military let alone led troops (sorry, Shrub's time in TANG don't count).

[marble falls]

37. Or that the Romans had free and open elections, no wait, that never happened. Or had mass media ...

... oh yeah, that didn't happen either. So much like us!

I look forward to all your posts! It's good to have calm, smart posters like you here!

[Recycle_Guru]

43. thank you. it is fun exchanging views with intelligent people I find here

[brooklynite]

71. I suggest you read THE STORM BEFORE THE STORM by Mike Duncan...

The parallels between the collapse of the Roman Republic and our current situation are worth understanding.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34184069-the-storm-before-the-storm#

[Scrivener7]

72. Wow.

Enjoy your jokes.

[marble falls]

73. Yours are even funnier.

[Scrivener7]

74. I haven't made any jokes. Have a lovely day.

PS: That book brooklynite is recommending is a corker. Very informative. You might enjoy it.

[marble falls]

75. Correction. Your unintentional jokes are funnier. May I ask: exactly what is your beef?

[Scrivener7]

76. I have no beef. I expressed surprise that the comparison to the fall of the Roman Republic was

such a topic for jokes and derision.

It explains a lot.

[marble falls]

77. Mainly because there are precious few direct simularities between the Roman Empire and the US ...

... comparing the two shows an extremely limited understanding of what Rome was.

Anyone who says "we're just like the Romans" deserves a measure of derision.

[Scrivener7]

78. "Proceed, indeed."

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

46. So you think that the two countries have

Remarkable similarities in their government structure?

Please proceed.

[marble falls]

53. Proceed, indeed!

[Pisces]

38. An article for you. Again, I am not pulling these things out of thin air.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/04/no-really-are-we-rome/618075/

[marble falls]

39. Nice. An article that can't be read without a subscription. In your own words ...

... how is Rome like the US today? Cause I can tell you in my own words how it isn't.

[Pisces]

45. Our political strife, political norms being undermined by an unqualified narcissists while we keep

Thinking it will get back to normal. The huge inequities of the have vs. the have nots, the uncertainty with global plagues and weather related catastrophes that will only get worse. Fear of the other (immigrants) the very pillars of our democracy have been compromised by uneducated politicians who don’t care to know how democracy works. We are it seems to me inching closer to a breaking point. If Donald Trump is elected again we are in serious danger of losing many of the things we value as a country. Now if we add AI technology and loss of more white collar jobs in the mix we have a perfect storm brewing. I think the arrogance of America thinking we will overcome all with our American exceptionalism is exactly how the Romans felt about themselves.
They were dominant force for so long with rigid control and belief in Rome that they couldn’t see how diluted the experience and intelligence of their leaders became.

I haven’t seen any new measures in the last 4 years to prevent another Trump or Trump himself from using the position of President to break as many laws and traditions as he sees fit. What are traditions should be law in some cases. We have someone who broke tradition in many things and no one around him stopped him in fact they publicly encouraged him. People who knew better. I think the American experiment can come crashing down very easily. Just like a natural disaster can tear down what took hundreds of years to build.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

54. You do realize that in no way reflects the reality

Of Rome's government vs that of the US. You're confusing cultural issues with government.

They are not the same thing. That's your first mistake.

Your second is in thinking there's anything unique in those cultural issues. What you've described about those cultural issues could apply to well, all but a handful of governments throughout history. None of those things you describe are unique or new or exclusive to the US or Rome. They're universal.

Since the dawn of history, every nation has had people thinking things had to get better than they were, whether or not things were bad, overall.

Inequality has always existed everywhere there are nation-states--and still does; it's only ever been a matter of degree.

Plagues were as rampant or worse in Italy in 1657 or China's Ming Dynasty in 1633 or England in 1500 or Japan in 735 or Athens in 430BCE or Megidoo in 1350BCE as they were here or in Rome (and that's a very short list of historical plagues).

Propaganda has been around literally forever. Do I need to spell out all of the historical examples of it? Care to guess how much of it came from the Gutenberg printing press, all by itself? The telegraph? The telephone? Radio and TV? How about computers, and then social media? Sure, AI is bad--but it is nothing new in disreputable parties trying to use a recent technological development in an attempt to manipulate and extort and lie to the rest of us for their own gain.

And literally hundreds of countries have broken apart over internal strife since the beginning of time. So that also isn't something unique to Rome or to the US.

Not one bit of any of this is new, really.

You do realize that...right?

Yes, some things these days are not all that great...But, in the end that list of yours has bugger all to do with a comparison between the form of governments of the US v Rome. Which are in no way similar, no matter how much you want to pretend they are. That is a fact.

And that is all that matters.

[marble falls]

55. And this majorly describes the Roman Empire in any sort of way that also doesn't describe ...

... every nation in the world, including the US, with a political system of any sort?

How does the political structure the Roman Empire resemble that of the US? Free elections? Deification and state worship of Emperors?

[Pisces]

63. I agree it does describe many nations. We have modeled our democracy with the Senate and the House

After the Romans. Trump has been deified to the Republican base who could care less what laws he is breaking. I am not here to sell you on gloom and doom. I am will say that many on this board even though they know privately there is concern for Biden’s age and Kamala as the replacement. We are acting in a similar fashion as Republicans in the know who would not speak out against Trump but in private had plenty to say. Anecdotally in my group of democratic friends there is concern for Biden’s age. Everyone has agreed President Biden has done a great job, but we are seeing the press conferences and his public speaking which has not always shown Biden to be quick and on top of it. We were all shocked when Hillary lost. Biden winning is not a given. Only
5 to 7% of the population will be deciding and only a handful of states will be making the decision based on electoral college, not popular vote. I think we should all be scared.

[Recycle_Guru]

64. we're focused and determined--not scared

the fear of Trump winning in 2016 has been replaced by the reality of Trump in office. Biden, Harris and others will be hammering that message along with their many successes as true presidential election season commences.

[marble falls]

65. All we have to is get the fucking vote out. The vote: something the Romans never had. But, the ...

... fact is Democrats need to turn out and vote like that GOP minority party does (which gives us gerrymandering that in some states gives GOP voters a vote worth 1.2 to Democrats vote). We need to vote every two years (and in special elections) until we have legislatures that releck us and not the special interested. Give Joe Biden a Congress he deserves. There's a possible two SCOTUS seat to name.

Our Democratic voting habits has had a big hand to bring us where we are. We need to vote like Republicans do: every time the polls are open, and up and down the line.

You know, stuff the Romans never had an option to consider.

[yardwork]

50. How is Kamala Harris like the Romans?

[Recycle_Guru]

61. they wore togas--she wears dresses

she works in a shining marble city and so did they.

[yardwork]

62. Ohhh! Now I get it.

[LudwigPastorius]

69. The Romans?

What have the Romans ever done?

[marble falls]

26. Just irritates the hell out of me, it's like telling ghost stories at a sleep over.

[yardwork]

51. Lol! It really is!

This one time at band camp we saw a ghost and...

[Pisces]

6. I guess with Democracy on line we can't afford to be cavalier. The election is something to worry

about and those that don’t and take Trump for granted again do so at the Peril of the Country.

[yardwork]

52. I agree. We can't be cavalier or take anything for granted.

[OAITW r.2.0]

2. huh.......never had that

pipedream.

[elleng]

4. No way 'we' are 'throwing away Nancy Pelosi.'

this is a highly offensive suggestion.

[relayerbob]

19. I agree

[LoisB]

25. I agree.

[underpants]

5. She was very complimentary of Kamala

I watched it CNN last night. It was a great interview.

[Pisces]

9. She would not give a full throated endorsement. I watched it too. She's a great politician and very

Practiced at not answering questions she doesn’t want to answer.

[Recycle_Guru]

14. yes, but some are looking for a very opportunity to sow division in Dems

[marble falls]

28. Bingo!

[chowder66]

8. Source?

For the 'dry endorsement' that is.

[Pisces]

11. The Guardian and CNN

Nancy Pelosi seemed to offer a less-than-ringing endorsement when asked if Kamala Harris was the best running mate for Joe Biden next year, saying: “He thinks so, and that’s what matters.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/14/nancy-pelosi-kamala-harris-joe-biden-running-mate

[niyad]

24. You really are missing the point, aren't you? What Speaker Emerita Pelosi said

is exactly correct. What PRESIDENT Biden thinks on the subject IS what matters.

Interesting slamming both Speaker Emerita Pelosi and VP Harris in one post.

[Pisces]

32. Yes, I'm the only one who took it that way. I'm not willing to stick my head and sand this go around

Hillary’s loss is seared in my brain and I will not be lulled into a false sense of security because some on this site don’t want to speak the evil of Trump winning.

[demmiblue]

10. Lol... wtf?

[Pisces]

12. I added link to my original post of article

[relayerbob]

13. Those folks don't pay attention to Nancy Pelosi anyway

My problem is what the issues with Harris are. I really don’t know why people don’t like her, other than the obvious … a black woman … gasp.

[Zeitghost]

17. She tanked in the primaries

And I don't think Democratic voters are racist.

[relayerbob]

22. A- Dems are going to vote Biden-Harris

B- don’t be so sure

[Recycle_Guru]

20. her flaws in order are:

For non Dems--

She's Democrat
She's woman
She's a minority ethnicity Jamaican/Indian
She has a laugh some people don't like
She talks in a somewhat nasal way that some people don't like

For Dems-- because those qualities might turn some voters off they want someone else despite her victory with Biden

[Hortensis]

23. ANY Democratic VP would be targeted for massive hate campaigns.

Those who already hate her for being black aren't our problem. It's those who should be voting happily Democrat but could be convinced by the miasma of poison surrounding her that "I just don't like her," "I just don't trust her," "Why on earth did Biden choose her?" (like he didn't have good reasons!), etc.

It picks off some of weak commitment every time. So, of course.

[Pisces]

33. Exactly, we can not pretend the sentiment isn't out there. It's terrifying to think what Trump would

Do if he were to win. This will be a close election decided by a very few. Everyone here is I hope is voting the ticket no matter what, but the people here are not who I’m worried about.

[Hortensis]

41. +100. But we're going to win. I'm convinced the polls

are better indicators of who not to pay attention to than reality. No one normally gets elections wrong decade after decade, and they have for over over 30 years.

[Hortensis]

57. The problem is that she's the Democratic running mate.

Of course she's a major target of attack. They're not going after rampant racists who'd never vote for either one.

They're going after potential Democratic voters. The Hillary treatment. And it's time for a lot of it to be brought here.

[Hekate]

15. Why on earth would we ever throw away the Speaker Emerita who helped save the country on 1/6?

[Pisces]

34. It was sarcasm

[Hortensis]

16. Whoever's dishing out these poison notions, maybe just don't go there.

People who don't not only save themselves pointlessly being "scared to death" but don't pick it up to spread to others.

Heavy blizzards of poison are forecast from now all the way through November after next -- but even worse.

[stopdiggin]

18. the 'worried about Kamala Harris' thing

is just another variation on the anti-Biden windmill.
(and not a very convincing one at that.) Nobody outside the dedicated right (and a handful Russian trolls) - is playing this card

And any intimation that Nancy Pelosi is not 'on board' - is a huge load of claptrap.

------ --- ------- --- ---

[marble falls]

29. Exactly. Kamala Harris stands very well on her own. And so does Nancy Pelosi.

[Recycle_Guru]

36. precisely

[emulatorloo]

40. "DEMOCRATS IN DISARRAY!!!!" (tm) Sorry, not buying such divisive nonsense.

[Recycle_Guru]

44. ditto

[Pisces]

48. Democrats are not in disarray. They are concerned, but will vote for the ticket. It's the 5 to 7%

that will decide this close race that will determine who wins.

[msfiddlestix]

42. Who is this "We" you are referring to? DU?

[Pisces]

49. We on DU, we the democrats

[msfiddlestix]

68. Guess I missed all of this.. I have been busy but wow.

[bigtree]

47. no one is stupid enough to drop the person raising the most money for the ticket right now

...fact.

Look it up.

Kamala Harris events routinely selling out tickets and exceeding donation targets

Akayla Gardner @gardnerakayla · 1h
New: A look inside the @VP ’s fundraising blitz. @KamalaHarris is routinely selling out tickets and exceeding donation targets for campaign receptions. Here’s why.

Harris, the nation’s first Black, Asian and woman vice president, has headlined more receptions than anyone on the team this cycle, even Biden. Harris has been a critical asset to an operation that raised $72 million in the second-quarter, exceeding their challengers, including Republican primary frontrunner Donald Trump, over that period.

Hosts are often forced to turn away interested supporters, according to donors who requested anonymity to speak about the events. At least one donor specifically requested that Harris speak at the reception they hosted.

“People want to see her, they want to meet her, they want to hear what she has to say,” said Desiree Rogers, a former White House social secretary who co-hosted a Chicago fundraiser in July. “Had we had more space, we could have sold more tickets.”

The vice president has also focused on speaking to issues — including abortion, climate change and gun control — that Democrats see as mobilizing women, young progressives and people of color, an effort that has helped drive her popularity with donors, according to a person familiar with the campaign who requested anonymity.

read more: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-26/harris-taps-wall-street-hollywood-ties-to-deliver-biden-donors


Kamala Harris waves at the crowd at an abortion rights rally at Howard University. (Jim Lo Scalzo/EPA/Bloomberg)

[Recycle_Guru]

56. to be clear --here's the ACTUAL Guardian headline and sub head

Nancy Pelosi: Biden thinks Harris is best running mate ‘and that’s what matters’

Former House speaker says people shouldn’t underestimate vice-president and that she will work to get Biden and Harris re-elected.

[William769]

58. Give them hell Nancy!

She's all right in my book, so is V.P. Harris.

[Recycle_Guru]

59. my favorite SOTU was with Nancy and Kamala on either side

of Biden.

[William769]

60. ...

[Pisces]

66. Interesting that I thought this was a place for discussion and ideas. But really its just a place of

Groupthink. Why are we acting like Republicans. We can hold many thoughts at once and still be united in voting for the ticket. It is mind boggling how so many will not deviate from the talking points. I know we have to all be on the same page come voting day, but now is the time to discuss things.

[bigtree]

67. maybe people aren't accustomed to casting aspersions on an incumbent VP

...especially such a successful and productive one.

Who does this? Who seriously considers ditching their VP before a re-election. It's just the stupidest political move imaginable. I can't imagine why anyone would seriously consider it.

All of that aside from the fact that there's zero wrong with VP Harris, and that no other VP has had to endure this bullshit before this black woman came to office.

Her detractors can go fleek themselves.

[Scrivener7]

70. "We can hold many thoughts at once." Sadly, there's a vocal little squad that can't.

Straw men and name calling are the methods of choice.

[kwolf68]

79. No one is throwing Pelosi away

No one cares about what Pelosi thinks. Republicans hate her and most Democrats are probably ambivalent. I am still trying to figure out why Democrats are being lead by multiple octogenarians at nearly every level in national government. At some point you need to actually breed the next generation of leaders. This isn't politics in the USA 1955 where you "wait your turn", no the stakes are way higher and we need people in positions of power who will actually be alive when fascist polices are implemented on our nation and are willing to take on that fight. Pelosi, based on her patheitc, lukewarm respone to trump BLAMING HER for 1/6 tells me she's finished as a major national political player. If your best response to that nonsensical bullshit is, "the former occupant is about projection" then we're toast anyway. The national Dems are fucking around with our nation, we need NEW BLOOD. Katie Porter is the type of person who I am thinking about. If she becomes Senator how long will it take before she is moved into leadership? 15 years?