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Rolling Stone's ex-publisher says black and women musicians aren't articulate or masters (Original Post) AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 OP
Jann Wenner? Nt Fiendish Thingy Sep 2023 #1
Yup... AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #2
Awful! PortTack Sep 2023 #3
And the interviewer gave him plenty of opportunities AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #4
Here's some of what he said blogslug Sep 2023 #5
so he's saying that he doesn't find them articulate? maxsolomon Sep 2023 #7
Articulate, and not profound it sounds like AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #8
tough to interview Marvin, though. maxsolomon Sep 2023 #11
True AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #14
no Jann Wenner interviews of Gaye from the past, I suppose. maxsolomon Sep 2023 #33
Nice Zappa reference! robbob Sep 2023 #23
in interviews, i guess. maxsolomon Sep 2023 #32
Wow. senseandsensibility Sep 2023 #12
He also says he could've included ones just to avoid being called out AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #16
Yeah, again he is totally senseandsensibility Sep 2023 #17
I knew he was a jerk but this is worse than I expected. yardwork Sep 2023 #24
I still wonder what Warren Zevon did to piss Wenner off AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #30
That makes sense. yardwork Sep 2023 #31
I bet he hates those LGBT singers, they suck obamanut2012 Sep 2023 #6
You mean angrychair Sep 2023 #9
He really demonstrated every problem I've had w/ RS in this one interview nt AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #10
What would he say about her I wonder? senseandsensibility Sep 2023 #18
One articulate rocker grokked "minds" like Jan Wenner's. Kid Berwyn Sep 2023 #13
He's very similar to fucking Bob Dylan, whose awful book I started. Sky Jewels Sep 2023 #15
What is this "philosophy of rock," anyway? yardwork Sep 2023 #25
The whole "he's so cryptic and elusive!" fawning over some celebrities AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #29
THIS quote: "I probably went too far. So what? I'm entitled." highplainsdem Sep 2023 #19
I remember sitting in the newsroom laughing at that review AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #20
So he had a crush on Mick and promoted his mediocre album. yardwork Sep 2023 #26
Wenner has always had a groupie quality about his writing AZSkiffyGeek Sep 2023 #28
What a fuckig idiot Ferrets are Cool Sep 2023 #21
This dude seems like a total asshole budkin Sep 2023 #22
I'll save you some time Jann. The philosophy of Rock and Roll according to most of those white guys? bluesbassman Sep 2023 #27

blogslug

(39,167 posts)
5. Here's some of what he said
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 03:20 PM
Sep 2023
https://consequence.net/2023/09/jann-wenner-black-female-musicians-dont-articulate/

...Wenner explained that the artists selected for the book — most of whom, its worth noting, were his close friends — were “not a deliberate selection,” but instead were “intuitive” choices informed by his “personal interest and love of them.” But he also slightly contradicts himself in the very same interview, stating that these so-called “masters” of rock ‘n’ roll also “had to meet a couple criteria” and measure up to a nebulous “historical standard.”

“Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level,” Wenner went on. “Joni [Mitchell] was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test. Not by her work, not by other interviews she did. The people I interviewed were the kind of philosophers of rock… I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.”

Seemingly attempting to move on to the next topic, Wenner concluded: “Just for public relations sake, maybe I should have gone and found one Black and one woman artist to include here that didn’t measure up to that same historical standard, just to avert this kind of criticism. Which, I get it.”


fuck Jann Wenner

maxsolomon

(38,729 posts)
7. so he's saying that he doesn't find them articulate?
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 03:36 PM
Sep 2023

in that they're not able to talk about their work in an insightful, philosophical way?

i've noticed that in interviews with many artists who's work i admire: bowie, jagger. even dylan comes off as evasive when interviewed - he rarely says anything deep.

some people just can't "dance about architecture". it doesn't mean they're not great musicians, or "masters".

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,744 posts)
8. Articulate, and not profound it sounds like
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 03:42 PM
Sep 2023

I mean, it's not like Marvin Gaye wrote a whole fucking album about civil rights and environmental activism....

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,744 posts)
14. True
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 04:44 PM
Sep 2023

But Jerry Garcia and Lennon are in his book, and theyve been gone for 30 and 40 years.

maxsolomon

(38,729 posts)
33. no Jann Wenner interviews of Gaye from the past, I suppose.
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 08:45 PM
Sep 2023

but there were big Jerry & John interviews to draw from.

robbob

(3,750 posts)
23. Nice Zappa reference!
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 06:31 PM
Sep 2023

But really; Joni not articulate? Her lyrics run rings around most rockers. What’s his criteria? A “rock and roll philosophy” could mean almost anything. Joni is not a rocker, I’ll concede that point, but what exactly are the qualities he’s looking for in assembling this list?

senseandsensibility

(24,978 posts)
12. Wow.
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 04:38 PM
Sep 2023

So he admits that he made all the choices himself and couldn't find one black or woman artist to include? That says way more about him than about the black or women artists. This is almost like something from the Onion it's so bad.

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,744 posts)
30. I still wonder what Warren Zevon did to piss Wenner off
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 07:46 PM
Sep 2023

It's the only reason I can see for his continued snubbing for the Rock Hall. White, critic's darling, 70s singer-songwriter star, dead. He should totally be in - but he's not. The only reason I can think of is that Wenner doesn't want him in.

obamanut2012

(29,369 posts)
6. I bet he hates those LGBT singers, they suck
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 03:33 PM
Sep 2023

Oh wait, he is LGBT, so that's okay, unless they are black or women, so white, male LGBT singers are okay.

UGH.

angrychair

(12,285 posts)
9. You mean
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 03:47 PM
Sep 2023

The whole reason why rock and roll even exists?!?

Tell that to Sister Rosetta Tharpe

?si=uSyG2bwdalG6ca9h

senseandsensibility

(24,978 posts)
18. What would he say about her I wonder?
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 04:51 PM
Sep 2023

Never mind, his opinion is worthless. But yes, she is the Mother of Rock'n Roll.

Kid Berwyn

(24,399 posts)
13. One articulate rocker grokked "minds" like Jan Wenner's.
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 04:42 PM
Sep 2023
"Most rock journalism is people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read." -- Frank Zappa
 

Sky Jewels

(9,148 posts)
15. He's very similar to fucking Bob Dylan, whose awful book I started.
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 04:45 PM
Sep 2023

Dylan has a stupid book on the "philosophy" of rock music. It's really just a vehicle for him to go on incoherent grumpy-old-white-man anti-women female-hate-filled rants. I made it about a third of the way through before the grotesque misogyny made me feel physically sick.

Fuck them both.

And, yes, Dylan was a songwriting genius. Can't sing worth shit though.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
25. What is this "philosophy of rock," anyway?
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 07:20 PM
Sep 2023

That sounds ridiculous.

Edited to add - that comment was aimed at Bob and Jann, not you!

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,744 posts)
29. The whole "he's so cryptic and elusive!" fawning over some celebrities
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 07:44 PM
Sep 2023

No, he doesn't give a shit what you write so he is fucking with you. Or he's a dick. Probably both.

highplainsdem

(62,159 posts)
19. THIS quote: "I probably went too far. So what? I'm entitled."
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 05:23 PM
Sep 2023

Talking about giving a mediocre Mick Jagger solo album a 5-star review, specifically.

So I personally intervened. Having sat there and listened to Mick make it, I was in love with it. I confess: I probably went too far. So what? I’m entitled.


But that attitude defines Wenner, and not just in terms of that review.

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,744 posts)
20. I remember sitting in the newsroom laughing at that review
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 05:39 PM
Sep 2023

The older music critic at the paper saw the cover teasing the review and said without reading it, “Wenner wrote that.”

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,744 posts)
28. Wenner has always had a groupie quality about his writing
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 07:41 PM
Sep 2023

Starfucker journalism. It's always been more "look at the cool people I know" than "look at this cool album they put out". I didn't know he was gay until I read this article. Maybe you're on to something.

bluesbassman

(20,384 posts)
27. I'll save you some time Jann. The philosophy of Rock and Roll according to most of those white guys?
Fri Sep 15, 2023, 07:37 PM
Sep 2023

If you can’t drink it, smoke it, ingest it, screw it, or make a pile of money off it, it ain’t Rock and Roll. Any other pontification is just them justifying their wealth and success.

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