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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo I am in Ontario this week visiting friends. Over in Quebec, the Qubcois seem to have lost . . .
. . . their minds. Effective the end of this month, no business shall be conducted in English. If you are a business executive who does not speak French, you coldu be subject to demotion.
This was told to me. I have no cite but would love to see one.
I did, however, find this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/bill-96-major-provisions-into-effect-1.6861311#:~:text=The%20provisions%20require%20employees%20of,within%20the%20last%20six%20months.
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elleng
(141,926 posts)
Sneederbunk
(17,491 posts)Happy Hoosier
(9,535 posts)… to Ottawa over this. It’s pretty nuts.
applegrove
(132,208 posts)the early 1990s and there were a bunch of empty storefronts downtown still. When I lived there in 2004 - 2006 things seemed to have improved. Montreal is such a great city. If they were pro English speakers they would be overrun by canadians. Breaks my heart the whole survival of the culture and draconian laws there. I was in French immersion in public school. My parents generation did their best to keep the country together. For sure we are a liberal country because of Quebec. And French immersion ended up giving Canadian kids across the country a leg up in intellect as a second language does. We owe so much to those Quebecers, even the ones who agitated for separation. It made us people who accept that you don't always get exactly what you want in politics and that is important.
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)Sigh, the court fights, the language police, those who wanted to keep the world away, thought they had erected a wall, then came the internet, & I suspect this is the response to the internet. I remember Claude Ryan trying to tell GM who had a plant north of Montreal where they made Firebirds & Camaros that upper management had to operate in French, Ryan was asked to translate 'worldwide overcapacity', the plant is now a huge housing development.
Bottom line is Quebec is a French province. My kids are all bilingual, one speaks 4 languages, they are all dual citizens & could move down here to the US, they love to visit in the winter, but they have no desire to move out of Quebec.
I also remember the FLQ, the army on the streets, one could get into the post WWII history of Quebec, it's very important to understand that history before commenting on Quebec politics of this century.
Response to applegrove (Reply #4)
OneBlueDotS-Carolina This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)in this respect is of course very illiberal but bigger context always needed. I read some time ago that the bigger trends were lessening of support from outright independence and instead growth of the "nationalism" resurgent so many places these days. Seems like this could fit that picture.
How great if more people there are able to understand and accept that they can't always get what they want in politics. Poorer hunting grounds for demagogues.
Disaffected
(6,401 posts)the claim is absurd.
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)Disaffected
(6,401 posts)"no business shall be conducted in English".
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)They'll use German.
Disaffected
(6,401 posts)Du weißt wirklich nicht viel darüber, oder?
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)Disaffected
(6,401 posts)"no business shall be conducted in English" is not a false claim, non?
On a more personal note, IMO language and culture practices should in the main stand on their own merits and without a lot of, what some might consider draconian measures (such as what we see in Quebec), to prop them up.
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)It's the law, it's unconstitutional, see notwithstanding clause.
Bill 96: Understanding Québec’s French language law
https://www.osler.com/en/resources/regulations/2022/bill-96-understanding-quebec-s-french-language-law
Disaffected
(6,401 posts)"...operate in French" is not the same as all business must be conducted in French.
This seems to be the most relevant clause in the article:
"Reducing the threshold at which businesses become subject to the obligation to undergo a “francization program” seeking to generalize the use of French within the businesses’ Québec operations from 50 to 25 employees in Québec."
Note the "....generalize the use of French...".
So, French may well be required to be the predominant language spoken within a business with over 25 employees but, that does not make it mandatory (as the original claim, which after all is what we are addressing here, stated or at least implied).
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)Meaning, over 25 employees, biz operates in French, verbally & written. With a committee, reporting to the Government every 6 months. How this will actually work, who knows.
Disaffected
(6,401 posts)Such legislation would pretty much preclude any Quebec business (with over 25 employees) from doing business with the 95% non-francophones/businesses in NA (let alone the rest of the world except maybe France and a few third world others).
Imagine a Quebec CEO trying to negotiate a business deal with a non-francophone. "Mai non Monsieur, we must parler en Français seulement"?? Would the Quebec gov't insist that written contracts and correspondence be in French as well?
Who knows, maybe they make an exception for such things.
Are there any other countries in the world with such legislation for their language "rights"?
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)They could clearly show they need English or whatever speaking folks to conclude deals for their Jets. On the other hand, on the production line, the language of the day is French. Same thing for Paccar which builds Kenworth & Peterbilt trucks. Paccar changed its operation in the 1990s to operate its production in French, both written & verbal. Whereas GM who had a large plant across the hwy from Paccar, closed their plant, claiming overcapacity.
One might think after a pandemic, supply chain issues...etc., the 'National' government of Quebec would have better things to do, the language laws have very robust since the last century.
Disaffected
(6,401 posts)Like continuing to screw Newfoundland & Labrador on the Churchill Falls power agreement for instance.
https://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/politics/churchill-falls.php
Or pandering to the tribal Quebecois language & cultural insecurities.
Meanwhile, rumblings of separation continue like a dormant volcano.
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)Hudson's Bay Company, run by Scots, Montreal biz sector, prior to the Seaway opening, run by Scots, the two Generals who negotiated the Surrender of Quebec, after Wolfe & Montcalm were killed, both Scots. Prior to 1960, it was the Scots & the RC church that managed Quebec. It seems there was a quiet revolution in the 1960s, these things are often messy. One major difference is the Quebec pension plan, the money is mostly invested within Quebec, rather than Federal governments using pension plans, or social security as a free piggy bank. The worst thing in recent memory was Oka, where a 2 bit mayor decided it was a great plan to expand the municipal golf course to 18 holes, using a Mohawk cemetery for the expansion. That went well....
DFW
(60,186 posts)In Québec, a business executive is unlikely to be demoted because he/she would probably never have been promoted in the first place. In business, as with other fields, if you want to get anywhere professionally, you have to speak the local language. A business exec in Québec who doesn't speak French is about as useful as a business exec in Toronto who doesn't speak English. I doubt any law would be enacted, much less enforced, to drive the point home.
It's a point of contention between the Québecois and the French over what to call what is spoken in that province. Written out, it sure seems like French, but ,written out, Danish sure seems like Norwegian, too. Once the natives open their mouths, however, it's a different story. A few decades ago, a film from Québec was submitted to the Cannes film festival. The festival jury mandated that the film be shown with subtitles--French subtitles. The Canadians went ballistic. They said, "this film is in French, and this is France, so you don't need subtitles to know what is being said!" The French replied, "you can call this language anything you want, but we don't understand any of what is being said, so we need subtitles!"
OneBlueDotS-Carolina
(1,487 posts)Quebec demanded that dubbed English movies use Quebecois actors, rather than French actors, as there are some profound differences between Quebecois French & French spoken in France. Not long ago, outside of the urban centers of Quebec, some folks used the pejorative term 'Joual' to define the language that was spoken. One can find similarities with the English spoken in rural Newfoundland, or Cajun French in Louisiana. The French language developed on its own terms in Quebec, & English words were used for new products, as there was no media connection to France.
edhopper
(37,370 posts)and had little contact with Canada for several hundred years, so their French being drastically different from France is no surprise. Much like Spanish in this hemisphere compared to Spain.
And they are still a British Commonwealth nation. But I think this heavily leans into identity politics that I am not informed enough about to have an opinion.
UTUSN
(77,795 posts)edhopper
(37,370 posts)is similar.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)is completely mutually intelligible and similar to the difference between the Queen’s English and the American variety. That’s not really the case between Quebec and France. There’s a lot more differences, the French have a very hard time understanding the Quebec variety.
edhopper
(37,370 posts)Not the same language.
That is a Miami joke.
But I think the comparison would be someone from London and a person from deep Appalachia.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)My Spanish is of the Mexican variety but I have no issues communicating with Cubans, Spaniards, etc.