The male loneliness epidemic and how it affects fathers

[OnlinePoker]

Several years ago, another dad reached out to me after reading my work about being a stay-at-home dad. He was married, had two toddlers and was not coping well. He couldn’t find another person to talk to outside his family.

He didn’t say it, because most of us men won’t, but fatherhood was taking a toll on his mental health and self-worth. He felt alone — but not because he didn’t have a good relationship with his significant other. He told me it was because he didn’t have friends.

We hear a lot these days about men not finding the kind of deep friendship that helps them through the ups and downs of life the way many women do. I’ve also experienced what has been called the male loneliness epidemic, and many dads tell me it has reached into fatherhood.

“There’s no one to talk to. I walk into a place that is crowded, and it’s like I don’t even exist,” the dad told me. His experience hit home with me.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/health/male-loneliness-epidemic-wellness/index.html

[sarcasmo]

1. Started talking with my mom twice a week back in 2019. Dad said,

that mom really appreciates the calls because she can vent. Having those two phone calls, keeps me from going crazier.

[FalloutShelter]

2. I hear this often and have one simple piece of advice.

I have been the Chairperson of a couple of not-for-profit boards—one in Philanthropy and one in the Arts.
Find a cause or organization that appeals to you and VOLUNTEER.
You will find community and friends.
Often, it will only take a commitment of a couple of nights or weekends a month.
If you are home with little ones... there are often things you can do from home to help an org.

Just a suggestion, but I think a good one.
VOLUNTEER.

[erronis]

42. Excellent advice. Look at driving for Meals On Wheels - get to meet lots of folks!

And frequently people you wouldn't normally meet. I've developed long-term friendships with many of my meal recipients.

[Scrivener7]

74. I think that's the secret. But I think of it slightly differently: help. If you are helping

other people, which you can do within your areas of interest, it creates meaning and community.

[FalloutShelter]

77. Absolutely.

[3Hotdogs]

3. Our town, Maplewood, N.J., has a contingent of working moms and Stay-at-home dads.

They meet every Tuesday at the local diner and share companionship, trip plans and so forth.

[DFW]

4. Ouch. That sounds like a tough nut to crack.

But aren't there all these on-line communities you can join back there? I ask from ignorance, because my wife took over the stay-at-home parent role, and she started out pre-programming her social circle. We moved to this old medieval suburb of Düsseldorf so I could be near the Düsseldorf airport (best move we ever made). She was already pregnant, so she joined a "Babygruppe" with women all about at her stage of pregnancy, and it was led by an ob-gyn local doctor. Fathers were not only welcome, but encouraged to attend, which we all did when we could, so we all got to know each other, too. Oddly enough, NONE of us were originally from this small town, so we were all ready and eager to make new friends. This was over 40 years ago, and most of us are still friends, including with one couple whose only child, a son, died of heart cancer (what are the odds of getting THAT at age 17?). They are still very much a part of our friends here, even though their loss devastated them. One of the women lost her husband to cancer a few years ago, but she also remains very much a part of our circle of friends.

My wife basically just looked for some people to form the group, and it happened. There has to be a first step, but I suspect that it's the hardest.

[Bettie]

5. Being an at-home parent can be very isolating

especially these days.

Heck, in Iowa, no one seems to socialize outside of their own family, but we're still new people having only lived in this town 21 years now.

[fredamoss3]

82. But when women were for decades doing this no one seemed to believe it was equally troubling

for them. And the women homemakers took pride in caring for their families and really didn't spare time to be lonely. My grandmother was busy from morning until bedtime and it wasn't 'busy" work. Maybe it's technology that is taking its toll on men.

Few need to talk. They just text. And don't forget, many people, especially men are so angry, thanks to Trump, and MAGA nuts one cannot have a decent conversation with even old friends.

[Mariana]

136. People don't go to church where you live?

[Bettie]

137. We don't go to church

so, that's not really an option. We tried when we first moved here, but as new people in town, we didn't make much headway.

[phylny]

144. I have experienced exactly what you have.

[Diamond_Dog]

6. Many women feel isolated and all alone when home with kids all day, too.

You may be the only one on your street who is home during the day and if you had to move to a new area, and don’t know anyone, it’s worse.

Not denigrating what the men feel. They probably have it worse because it’s harder for men to make other men friends (or so my spouse tells me)

[LakeArenal]

9. My Germn husband just isn't interested in friends.

He sorta thinks my friends husbands are his friends.

I guess they are, because they do car repair favors for each other. “Can you drive me to drop off the car?” That sort of thing.

Off topic: Nice pic of Sophie.

[Diamond_Dog]

11. TY!

Your firecrackers, as well! beautiful.

My husband considers me his best friend but really has no other male friends. He goes to a community swimming pool and yaks with the guys he sees there but they just don’t form friendships like women do. Like in your situation, my best friend’s husband is probably his only other closest friend and that’s a stretch even saying that.

[LakeArenal]

70. Sisters separated at birth!

[Bettie]

133. We moved when my first was just about a year old

and I was pregnant with my second.

It was SO hard to make friends in a new, small town.

Still is, since in Iowa they start young and I had my first in my 30's, so I was 10-15 years older than the moms of kids the same age as mine. Plus, they all worked full time and I was at home. Plus, we're not "going out to the bar" people and that's the primary mode of social life in this town.

[Sympthsical]

8. What a reasonable response to this issue.

[Diamond_Dog]

10. ++++ wow, right on!

[edisdead]

13. What an incredibly stupid reply.

[DBoon]

14. Let me try to reword this into something more reasonable

Men are taught to be competitive. Your worth is based on being a winner. Being second is being first of the losers.

Men must be "strong" at all times. Admitting vulnerabilities makes you weak. A competitor will take advantage of your weakness. You hide your feelings and "tough it out"

Boys that show feminine traits get the crap beat out of them, regardless of sexual or gender preference. You are allowed to display "masculine" traits and interests.

When you grow up like this, you end up without male confidants. You are alone.

[Aristus]

17. Thank you. You included one I forgot: Second place is the first loser.

I'm pretty sure anyone who actually uses that horrible, awful, corrosive saying unironically would actually be thrilled to earn an Olympic silver medal. Second place is almost always a matter of milliseconds, millimeters, or just sticking the landing. Extraordinarily gifted, talented, driven, goal-oriented elite athletes come in second all the time. It takes an astronomical level of dickishness to call them 'losers'. And this is the kind of shit I'm talking about above.

[carpetbagger]

38. We use it on ourselves all the time.

There are plenty of us who judge ourselves harsher than others. It's what we learned. So you're basically calling us astronomical dicks for self-judgement. Ok.

Regarding the specific idea, there's actually truth in it,I read a study once. It was men and women. Silver medalists are somewhat happy with the medal, but not as happy as bronze medalists.

[Brenda]

50. +1000 nt

[FSogol]

21. Unless, you realize that is all BS. You get educated and learn that emotions aren't bad.

You make friends and socialize and discuss things like books and art and ideas. You do things beyond watching tv, playing video games, and surfing the net. You do things besides watch porn. You have interests and take part in things like local river cleanups and local festivals. You go to the local brewery or bar or whatever once a week and play pub trivia or darts or bingo. You get together with friends monthly for cookouts or game nights. You go to a ball game once a month and go hiking once a month. Your group will get bigger and bigger and you won't be lonely.

My 2 cents.

[JI7]

46. This it's right wing men. Most normal liberal guys are not like this

[DBoon]

57. This is the truth about how most men are raised in this country

You can change your attitudes but not your past.

I've seen all of this growing up and in the workplace.

I've heard "second place is the first of the losers" unironically from a major accounting firm partner. It was supposed to inspire us.

One can change, but being the only kind empathetic male in your organization still makes you an outsider in many, many workplaces.

[Snooper9]

15. can I still use my smoker?

[GenXer47]

16. total agreement, and totally unhelpful

I was a stay-at-home dad for 6 years and the problem was exactly the opposite: I didn't fit in with the other guys in the neighborhood because THEY were exactly as you describe and I was the outsider. In fact I resented my baseball cap-wearing, pickup truck-for-no-reason jackass neighbor just as much as you would. I was the only stay-at-home dad at every public park, every preschool dropoff, every sports event, on and on.
I agree with a post above about plenty of stay-at-home moms in the same predicament, too. It's just the nature of the gig.
So your post is dead-on with regard to adult men's behavior but in this particular context it's a bit inside-out.

[FSogol]

22. LOL, well said. Too many men are kidadults and then wonder why people don't take them seriously.

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. SeriousLY

Adverbs are your friend.

[FSogol]

25. Reading glasses are my friend too. n/t

[Act_of_Reparation]

27. You can't type with your eyes closed?

Gotta up your keyboard warrior game

[Act_of_Reparation]

23. How to say "I didn't read the article"...

...without saying "I didn't read the article".

[newdayneeded]

51. Exactly, their response was about the total

opposite men discussed in the article. Wow!

[hunter]

61. I read the article and the premise is complete flaming bullshit.

Who the fuck are these people?

Aristus was being nice.

His was an appropriate response to the whining of grown men who think they are "special."

The idea that friendships have to be segregated into a "MALE" box and a "FEMALE" box may be the root cause of these males' distress.

Frankly the "MALE" friendship box is unpleasantly confining. It was my good fortune to be excluded from the boy's club starting in middle school but I could have done without the frequent beatings. The frequent beatings were one of the reasons I quit high school. I was a skinny squeaky autistic spectrum kid the bullies called "queerbait."

My wife and I were married and our children born over thirty years ago. My wife's career has always come first in our family which left me to do most of the childcare and all of the housekeeping. I don't recall being lonely or bored. I do recall being extremely sleep deprived when our children were preschoolers.

Maybe these guys are feeling "lonely" because their wives are still doing much of the heavy lifting in their households and "bringing home the bacon" too, thus allowing these men the luxury of wallowing in their masculine insecurities.

In all my life I've never had the time, the opportunity, or the inclination to cultivate any masculine insecurities.

[Orrex]

62. Yeah, you definitely sound like you've worked it all out

Lots of gatekeeping going on in this thread, with armchair sociologists declaring by fiat which sources of men's struggle are legitimate and which men are permitted to struggle at all.

[hunter]

69. It's not "gatekeeping" (a term you will never see me use...)

We can teach without pandering to to the insecurities of aggrieved white men.

We can be up front and honest and tell people that the stench of male insecurity is repellent to many who would be their friends.

If you are going to change ten thousand diapers and more, or cook ten thousand meals and more, or do uncounted loads of laundry, as I have, then do it with pride.

I don't give a fuck if straight white guys used to get well paying jobs with a high school diploma, got married, and their wives stayed at home and did all the housework and childcare. That's not the world we live in now. Deal with it, just as the majority of U.S. Americans, all those who are not straight white males, always have.

[Scrivener7]

75. Lol. No. The important takeaway is that the poster has found a way to deal with the issue we're

discussing.

And some find that offensive.

Which is funny and interesting at the same time.

[Orrex]

76. Yeah, you've worked it all out.

You're not a gatekeeper, you claim, as you explicitly tell people that their experiences don't matter. Or that they don't matter anywhere near as much as other people's.

I get it. Straight white guys aren't allowed to struggle. Loud and clear.


Society: Men should reach out, if they're having trouble.

Men: Ok, I'd like to reach out.

Society: Go fuck yourself, whitey. You don't have it nearly as hard as everyone else has had it forever, so suck it up and deal with your shit yourself.

[Scrivener7]

80. Wow. The poster you're yelling at never said anything remotely resembling any of that.

[NickB79]

93. See post 66

See my comment above if it hasn't been hidden.

Fecklessly or not, Reeves is pandering to the aggrieved white male.

Like it or not, we are all in this together and the days when any white guy could get a well paying job at the factory with a high school diploma are not coming back.

Seems to resemble it quite a bit, IMO.

[Scrivener7]

97. Hmmm... So to you that's the same as "Straight white guys aren't allowed to struggle,"

and "Go fuck yourself whitey"?

I guess we'll just have to disagree on that.

[Scrivener7]

78. "Declaring by fiat" and "gatekeeping" are your terms for "disagreeing," then?

[Gore1FL]

26. Well, no. But thanks for the bevy of stereotypes! Nt

[Hugin]

30. I for one, welcome the great undickoning...

It has been a boon for me that has always been the outsider.

I have been inundated by my former dick associates. (I will add that there are indeed female dicks as well)

I guess it’s because they feel safe coming out to me because I am what I have always been. Initially all they want to do is talk and talk coming to terms with the fact that everything they always thought was important, isn’t.

They are for the first time feeling their inner squishy parts and those are very sore. It feels good to not be a dick or in some extreme cases an asshole. It also takes less effort.

So, I listen in my nonjudgmental and open way, as usual.

The only downside for me is that I am antisocial.

I am never lonely, but then, I never was.

[roamer65]

33. Also they should drop their homophobia.

Gay men are in the same boat as far as loneliness.

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/gay-loneliness/

[Hugin]

40. I agree with that...

High on the list of how to gain good friends.

[hunter]

90. Everyone knows loneliness at times. That's just being human.

The loneliest I've ever been was living in my broken down car in a church parking lot and dumpster diving for food. There were people concerned about me but I drove them away.

After too much time had passed I started asking myself, "How did I get here?"

Well the immediate cause was that I'd jumped out of my girlfriend's moving car in Berkeley, leaving quite a bit of my skin and blood on the street, and she'd driven off into the night after determining I probably wasn't going to die and I wasn't looking for any kind of help, most especially from her. It was a long bus ride back to my own car and not surprisingly nobody wanted to sit near me or even ask if I needed help. I just had that kind of aura about me, and frankly, my appearance wasn't all that far off the norm for passengers on the midnight bus.

The proximate causes of my loneliness were a much bigger can of worms. Loneliness is rarely simple.

[Orrex]

34. Imagine if someone had posted an equivalent article about women's mental health

And now imagine the reaction if someone posted "stop being such b*tches all the time."

I truly can't decide if your post was a disastrously failed attempt at humor or if you're really so shallow and self-absorbed that you can't see beyond your own assumptions and stereotypes.

Your final sentence reveals the toxic ignorance of your post, and your entire sentiment is a great example of why men don't open up about their emotions; maybe they're good people who are truly struggling, and they don't want to be called dicks for it.

[Aristus]

41. It's usually pretty easy to spot the good people who are struggling.

But when a guy drives as slowly as possible in front of me until he comes to a yellow light, and then speeds through it, trapping me at the red, it's hard to think of him as some poor misunderstood guy who is struggling.

[Wednesdays]

45. And he's a stay-at-home dad?

[Orrex]

60. Curious that the legitmacy of their struggle is determined by how much they inconvenience you

Again, that attitude is a big part of the reason why even "legitimately" struggling men don't reach out.

[leftstreet]

79. +1

It was worth clicking on this strange thread just to read this

Curious that the legitmacy of their struggle is determined by how much they inconvenience you. Again, that attitude is a big part of the reason why even "legitimately" struggling men don't reach out.

[Fix The Stupid]

63. 100% right.

What an ugly post by this person.

And the scary thing? This poster boasts all the time about his medical knowledge and the horrible patients he reluctantly has to see...

Imagine taking your personal beefs with a few people,then extrapolating those experiences and stereotypes to the entire demographic...

What would that be called again?

Oh, it's OK this time - we're bashing men now...

This place has lost so much integrity over the years...it's a shame.

[hunter]

85. I'm not Aristus, but imagine if someone comes to you, cigarette in hand...

... complaining of shortness of breath, coughing uncontrollably every morning, frequent bouts of bronchitis, etc.., and you ask them if they've considered quitting cigarettes.

And then they turn all red in the face, highly offended, waving their arms, telling you why they couldn't possibly quit smoking, and stomp away slamming the door behind them.

You've just got to roll your eyes and get on with life.

Aristus wrote in interesting list I could possibly rewrite as "Common Aspects of Masculine Insecurity in the U.S.A." and this offended somebody so much they alerted on it, and what's even more interesting, there was a jury that agreed.

[Orrex]

87. Aristus posted a list of male stereotypes that seems to have resonated with some here

Last edited Mon Sep 18, 2023, 08:44 PM - Edit history (1)

And they seem then to have applied those stereotypes to all men who are struggling, .

Your smoker analogy is colorful but only relevant if we accept Aristus' ugly list as a meaningful summary of the issue, when in fact it is not.

I could possibly rewrite your analogy by positing a smoker who wants to quit and who reaches out for assistance to this end, only to be told that they have themselves to blame, while others are suffering worse.

I expect that this will earn me another terse reply from someone on my ignore list.

For the record, I didn't alert on the post and honestly would have preferred that his ugly list remained visible.


It's very interesting to me that one can't even raise the issue of men's mental health without yielding a flurry of replies insisting that it really isn't an issue.

[RobinA]

107. It's Not Just Here

it's a mark of the times. The hypocrisy is astounding.

[hunter]

109. I find this entire thread astonishing...

Richard Reeves wakes up like some affluent liberal Rip Van Winkle from the Reagan/Thatcher era telling us what boys and men need, and even worse has the bloody gall to tell us what Black men and boys need, and people aren't supposed to mock him or be offended by this???!!!

Seriously, like man.

Welcome to the 21st century, Mr. Reeves, glad you came out of your cave. Many of us have actually lived the lives you speculate about.

Okay, I haven't read his book, but this article is a wretchedly bad advertisement for it if that's not what Reeves is saying.

From this article Reeves seems the worst sort of mansplaining bore so many of us have suffered when we haven't been at home lonely changing nappies.

I read this article and the rage just started to bubble up in me from a very deep well.

And you know what? I was NEVER lonely for any of that "masculine" stuff, the masculine stuff Aristus was mocking, when I was living as the responsible adult in a house full of children while my wife was at work. Raising children is hard work, lot's of drudgery at times, but it's a wild, fascinating ride. Children are born little bundles of increasingly asserted raw personality. How can there be loneliness in that?

That's what men who never expected to be stay-at-home dads need to hear.

Yeah, it's hard work. Keeping children alive as toddlers and teenagers can be especially trying (god knows I put my own parents through bloody hell), but the foundations of human society are built in our childhoods by our parents, guardians, caretakers, and teachers. It's been my good fortune to be all of these.

[Fix The Stupid]

111. Here's a crazy idea...

Try and not shove everything you read into your little narcissistic worldview.

It's not hard. When someone posts about something, your immediate knee-jerk reaction shouldn't always be "WELL, WHEN THAT HAPPENED TO ME, I DID THIS..."

It's a little unbecoming.

Here's a crazy idea - try and think about people who HAVEN'T had your exact life experiences and try to empathize with their POV.

[hunter]

115. I was born an autistic spectrum freak of indeterminate sexuality.

Too large a portion of my empathy is built from scratch by scientific method.

Feel free to dismiss me.

[RobinA]

113. So Your Argument

boils down to, "I wasn't lonely, so what's wrong with people who are?" Ironically, this smacks of the Mommy wars when women were looked down on if they didn't get immense pleasure from changing diapers and having dinner ready when the man walked through the door.

[Sympthsical]

114. You're belittling, putting down, and dismissing the mental health of others

And you're clearly seeing it through your own very specific lens. I honestly do not understand the impulse that leads to doing so. It's a really, really bad look - and you're certainly not alone in it here.

I had some trauma in my life, some problems, some issues with being LGBT. Got older, did therapy, got my life in order. I am in very good mental health.

"I'm super, thanks for asking!"

Ok, but nobody in this topic asked.

Being hostile towards a discussion of mental health, and then high-fives all around once it's successfully disrupted. I don't get it. It's not great behavior. It looks awful to people who aren't already in that small tent in which one's made their camp.

[hunter]

116. Nobody ever really gets their "life in order."

That's just the way we are as humans.

[Sympthsical]

117. You're speaking for yourself

I have my life pretty decently handled at the moment.

It's important not to project ourselves and our beliefs onto others.

[hunter]

118. Many "beliefs" are garbage.

Would you disagree?

[Sympthsical]

119. Without fail

[hunter]

122. Nope. Some "beliefs" are intolerable.

I have much experience with that.

[Sympthsical]

123. And some beliefs

Are used as justification for some not so great behavior, even if the beliefs themselves aren't problematic.

That's ongoing experience.

[hunter]

125. What behavior of mine do you find "problematic?"

I'm asking as a scientist.

[Sympthsical]

127. The thread is sufficient enough argument

Anyway.

v

[hunter]

128. You demand an emulation of straight white boy world? I can do that.

Six decades of experience.

I choose not too.

[Sympthsical]

134. A gay man is demanding straight emulation?

Ah, I see the problem.

Well, there's no fixing that.

[hunter]

138. Um, okay.

If that's how this all makes sense to you.

[Sympthsical]

140. The one thing that keeps coming to mind

Is Key and Peele's homophobe sketch.

[hunter]

141. This gets better and better...

I'm not persecuted, I'm just an asshole.

[carpetbagger]

36. The only one of your sins I commit is about one drink a week.

I don't partake in the other 15. Yet here I am.

[Hugin]

43. I confess to the baldness...

After having a four inch square chunk of scalp removed due to skin cancer. My head coverings will have to be pried from my cold dead hands.

[SYFROYH]

47. It's kind of funny that you wrote this.

[Beatlelvr]

12. I see this in my own family

My dad never had a close friend and neither did my two brothers. Nor my friends' male relatives. We women talk frequently and not just about the weather. I'm not a psychologist but have always thought this is a huge problem and could harbor anger and disappointment in men's lives, and make them succeptible to lashing out. Women, generally, have a better social network among themselves.
Something's bothering you? Call your sister, mother, girlfriend. But I don't have a clue about solving it.

[LuckyCharms]

18. Soon to be 65. I've separated from many friends and family.

I think a lot of this, in my case, has to do with wising up, and not accepting non-meaningful relationships. Not accepting being taken advantage of, not accepting emotional abuse.

There's a trade-off to this though. And that is loneliness.

I used to have maybe 20 people that I viewed as friends. Now, I have maybe 5 people that I call friends (both male and female) including my spouse. All the rest of the people in my life I view as acquaintances.

I'm left with only one male friend that I can completely open up with though. Tell him my dark secrets, cry in front of him.

I'm not a sports guy. I'm not competitive. I don't drink anymore, so I'm never in a bar.

Loneliness for men, especially older men, is real. Probably the same for women too.

Let's face it...if a lot of us weren't lonely to at least some extent, we wouldn't be posting on internet forums.

[JI7]

19. Maybe they should start some online group where men in similar positions can connect

even many women don't always have people they feel they can talk to and many have started online groups and connect through there.

[Orrex]

39. It's hard to find such a group that doesn't skew hard-right

It would have to be carefully (and somewhat aggressively) moderated to prevent a slide into bigotry, racism, misogyny, homophobia & transphobia that I've seen even in nominally progressive online groups.

[Scrivener7]

73. Doesn't that lend credence to the posts about masculinity that so many in this thread are having

problems with?

And to me, it points to a need that someone should fill by doing exactly what you are describing. To make a men's site that DOESN'T have those things.

[EYESORE 9001]

20. I feel like an exception

I haven’t felt deprived due to a shortage of male friends. The ones I consider friends now are acquaintances from charity work and political activism. I don’t participate in pre-game rituals or aspire to drive the baddest truck on the block.

[multigraincracker]

29. All of my close friends are now females

and one gay male. The only ones I speak to weekly.
I’m fine with that.

[peppertree]

31. Money

When you have it, you're the center of attention wherever you go - even if you have the personality of a toad.

When you don't, you don't exist - and if try to assert yourself, you're an annoyance.

Not everyone's like that, of course - but most people. And more so, all the time.

Another subtle - but pervasive - result of 40 years of accelerated concentration of wealth.

[dembotoz]

32. yeah i just don't fit in.

just over 70 now
have not had an actual guy buddy in decades now.
literally decades
Always been painfully introverted to the point of being reclusive.
Part of it is being an extreme lefty in a very red area.

Part of it was belonging to a small prot church that nobody else in my neighborhood attended.

Part of it was going camping with my parents every damn weekend it wasn't snowing. Was literally never around

Went to college and completely severed all contacts with high school
friend is attending her 50th graduation anniversary this month...
I don't know if my class had one. I was never notified

Lonely i guess

[Xavier Breath]

53. I know how you feel.

I'm 56 myself, have always suffered from social anxiety and am basically down to the one buddy. He and I go to movies and sporting events, the things my wife has zero interest in, but he isn't always available and then I either do things by myself or don't do them. I used to have a few more friends but both of them changed jobs and moved back to where they originally came from some years ago. My wife is socially awkward as well and avoids basically all contact with humans outside of work or the rare occasion I get her to attend a family event. So, she doesn't have a network of friends either, and as a result, I can't even have friendships with the husbands of her non-existent female friends, and there are no group get-togethers or vacations or anything like that.

It's ironic about your high school reunion situation, because I've never attended any of mine, and I never give them my address, yet through multiple moves over the years they still keep finding me. It's a smaller school, so they basically invite everyone back every year, and then spotlight the years that are at special time markers (10 years, 25, 40, etc.). I haven't spoken to anyone from high school in many years, and I have no desire to see any of them. It was a rough time for me, and I have no dances, parties or exploits to rehash with anyone, so there's no point in going.

[LymphocyteLover]

35. My issue is my 27 year old son who lives alone, doesn't have a lot of friends or a significant other

and doesn't seem interested in making new friends or a girlfriend.

My wife and I always worry about him being lonely and try to maintain good communication with him. He's had some substance abuse issues and trauma. He's doing ok overall, but still it's all very worrisome.

[Johnny2X2X]

58. It really is hard for single men right now

There's a dating website stat that sums it up. 10% of the male profiles get over 90% of the interaction.

There are 10% of the men who are attractive, usually tall, and usually make good money that have their pick. The rest of the other 90% of single men can feel hopeless. And social media makes it seem like the whole world is beautiful and livng their best lives day after day.

I'm married, but I have several single guy friends who fall into that 90%. Thinking of 1 of my closest friends, really just a great person. Smart, hard working, kind, fun, friendly, adventerous, and financially secure. But he's not a looker and has a few extra pounds. He's just resigned himself to being alone the rest of his life. And he's been very frugal, and he would never advertise his wealth, but he's actually a millionaire now. So he'd really be a great catch for someone, but he's not superficial at all and would never let it known to a prospective g/f he has money. I see girls our age just looking right past him not knowing how great he is, because they can't take the time to get to know someone who isn't as attractive as their ideal. Guys like him used to still have a chance.

[LymphocyteLover]

64. Yes, I hear you. Thanks.

My son is nice enough looking but still is looking for a stable career.

He doesn't even want to bother with online dating. We just worry about him all the time.

[Scrivener7]

65. That math just doesn't make sense, as has been pointed out for years when incels make that claim.

Has your friend pursued a lot of women he considers ugly or fat in his search for a soul mate?

[obamanut2012]

86. Thank you for answering this post

I REALLY wanted to, but tbh I am mentally exhausted today and wasn't up for the blowback.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

102. "There's a dating website

stat that sums it up. 10% of the male profiles get over 90% of the interaction."

"It's a numbers game," right?

"I see girls our age just looking right past him not knowing how great he is, because they can't take the time to get to know someone who isn't as attractive as their ideal."

You say you're married? "Girls" your age are women.

Why is it the women's responsibility to take the time to get to know someone, who seems preemptively to assume they are "superficial?"

"... but he's actually a millionaire now. So he'd really be a great catch for someone but he's not superficial at all..."

So he's been contacting women who are "not lookers and have a few extra pounds." Right?

[betsuni]

131. +1

[meadowlander]

81. As long as he's happy, is it really an issue?

Some people are asexual and aromantic.

I think we can also go too far the other way, assume everyone has the same needs for social contact and then make people with a different level of needs feel like failures when they might otherwise be perfectly happy as they are.

[LymphocyteLover]

83. That's true, although I don't think he is completely disinterested in those things

He's more or less happy in his situation now though he's indicated he'd like to get married and have a family. He has a history of severe social anxiety and so I think avoids social situations as much as possible...

[SpamWyzer]

37. I tried

to explain the feeling of being male by pointing out how nature has given us roles that essentially say that men are disposable. War is the most blatant way we negate males, but there are many ways. Have you ever tried to get a job after age 50 if you are a male? It ain't easy, brothers and sisters, it ain't anything like easy. The homeless population of this world is made up mostly of men, addiction and violence of life on the streets decimate the unemployed/unsupported males, loneliness leads to much self destructive behavior. Many of my associates (since friendship nowadays is mostly at a distance of thousands of kilometers) are without social support beyond their family. I can take comfort in my deep enjoyment of solitude, when I am not confronted by difference and the other. My need of companionship is exhausted in my love of my mate, and having been widowed I can say that I know what loneliness that can bring...but I have great sympathy for all males who feel as if their lives are not meaningful. I suggest counting your "blessings" and realize that nothing is guaranteed and that IF you feel the need to find adult friendship, perhaps forcing yourself to be more sociable would be good too? Maturity often involves motivations that one has to create from the empty feelings themselves. There is much more to life than work, child rearing/family and defense. The arts beckon all lonely hearts and every man is a poet, a thinker, a builder and a dreamer. We are all made with an empty place inside our souls. We get the opportunity to fill that void by pouring it out. Love to my brothers.

[Ilsa]

44. Try being the SAH mom of a disabled child.

I tried to work. But when my son got older and would unexpectedly get physically violent with people, I was forced to become a warden. It's a hard life.

SAH dad needs to consider other options, like volunteering, joining a play group, finding a Mommy's Day Out program, etc, and sucking it up.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

103. I can relate

and I am so sorry.

[SYFROYH]

48. stay at home parents have a hard no matter the sex/gender

I think one of the difficulties for men is that we are accustomed to forming friendships with the guys we do things with such as work, playing sports, church, sports bar, car club, etc.

Having a support group in person or online isn't enough.

[1WorldHope]

49. Child rearing years are very unforgiving. It is very difficult to be the stray at home parent.

But kids grow up really fast and these are the years we must put others before ourselves. But soon the kids will grow up and you'll have more time to make friends. We should also remember how lucky we are if one parent can stay home and not work.

[Greybnk48]

52. My mom turned to alcoholism.

We moved to the suburbs in the 50's, from the city (Philadelphia) and she didn't drive or have a car. She could no longer walk to the drug store, or grocers. I'm sure it was hard.

Funny how after decades, centuries, eons of this being the fate of many women, it now affects some men and it a "CRISIS."

[treestar]

56. agree, why single out men?

This affects everyone in this culture. Nothing new.

[Scrivener7]

67. Because for the first time in history some of them are feeling it, so now it's important.

[Greybnk48]

68. Exactly! Now help is on the way? FFS. n/t

[Scrivener7]

71. In a search for common ground, I think we can all be thankful together and agree that it's good

that the working spouse can no longer toss the stay at home spouse into an asylum for these feelings, as husbands used to be allowed to do with their "melancholic" wives.

[Greybnk48]

100. Well that's one good thing. n/t

[Scrivener7]

101. We've come a long way, baby.

[Greybnk48]

105. LOL! n/t

[obamanut2012]

88. Exactly

Most of this thread is actually making me pretty mad. In even has Incel dating talking points ie misinformation about women.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

104. Yup.

"And don't expect me to pay for your coffee if you don't fuck me on our first meet up!"

Heard it ALL.

[onecaliberal]

54. I am a woman, but was a stay at home for years with a disabled child. I was truly invisible.

I'm sorry this is happening. Resources don't come knocking, you have to ask, just like women have to ask.

[treestar]

55. This is cultural and nation wide

"A Nation of Strangers" is a book I read in the 80s.

It was very lonely for a single woman in a big city. I moved back to where family was. They will always hang out with you!

It's the way this culture just is. Not sure how to fix it. It is due to automobile culture, suburban culture - everyone wants to be free of everyone else. But this is the price of it.

[Marthe48]

59. Along with keeping social skills in use

We all need to find a way to be comfortable with ourselves. Maybe if we found a balance between being solitary and being social, we'd all do better in all sitautions.

It took me a long time to realize I was okay being alone, so I'm not trying to minimize loeliness. I tried to watch The Snow Goose in the 70s and cried all the way through it. Now, I can go for days without seeing or talking to anyone.

[hunter]

66. This article is a pantsload.

See my comment above if it hasn't been hidden.

Fecklessly or not, Reeves is pandering to the aggrieved white male.

Like it or not, we are all in this together and the days when any white guy could get a well paying job at the factory with a high school diploma are not coming back.

Let's concentrate on the stuff that matters, like making sure EVERY job pays a comfortable living wage, and that the unemployed and unemployable are not left behind hungry and homeless.

[obamanut2012]

89. Thank you so much

[Sympthsical]

84. So . . .

This whole topic went exactly as expected.

And those who have gotten really used to centering themselves in everything are the most combative about the discussion even occurring.

Gucci booted feet in the air.

[Scrivener7]

91. "those who have gotten really used to centering themselves in everything"

Come on. You see the irony, right??

[Sympthsical]

92. I see what a person might think it is

If they were of a certain narrow ideological persuasion.

But I see it little different than people swooping in with, "Stop talking about this. All lives matter!"

And not realizing what that looks like to people who do not share in their constant need to dismiss others and re-center the conversation.

I also find it interesting that there is a constant, "What is wrong with men? Why do males behave this way? How do we combat rape culture and abuse and toxicity?"

And the second someone goes, "Let's talk about men's mental health . . ." it's an immediate, "HOW DARE YOU WORRY ABOUT MEN!!!!"

It's like, pick a lane. Do we want to solve problems, or is the hostility the point?

Because I believe in this behavior, the hostility is very much the point.

Look, I don't expect any better. It's just funny to me, because I don't think people understand what it looks like to those who do not share in their very self-involved and hostile views of these things.

[Scrivener7]

94. And where has anyone said, "stop talking about this"?

Who in this thread said, "How do we combat rape culture and abuse and toxicity?"

Who in this thread said, "How dare you worry about men?"

Women have ALWAYS known this is a problem. No one is hostile to the idea of solving it. But men saying, "Hey, this is a problem!" is a lot like someone saying, "Hey, there's this cool new thing called the internet! You should check it out."

Yeah. It's a problem. It's a big fucking problem. It's one that has caused untold misery to untold numbers of people for at least three or four generations now.

And again: "I don't think people understand what it looks like to those who do not share in their very self-involved and hostile views of these things." The monstrous irony of that. We understand. A whole lot better than you.

[Sympthsical]

95. I'm not engaging in this

Life is too short for toxicity.

The disruption and redirection is the point. But for someone to succeed in it, you have to give them permission to redirect you.

I don't. So, I hope people are enjoying whatever they think is being achieved here.

[Scrivener7]

96. Have a lovely evening.

[boston bean]

135. I guess being on the receiving end of it means nothing

to the new comers to the joint/club.

You have kids, they come first. Not second. Your life is to be centered on them.

Does it suck a bunch, yeah sometimes. Women have had a millennia of experience with this. And yeah, the answer for me was the kids came first. And I made the sacrifice because I brought them into this world.

My husband did as well. When I wasn’t there, he was. We did this for each other.

[Scrivener7]

139. I'm finding it interesting that the people who have joined the thread to say, "Here is how

I dealt with this problem" or "maybe this is what is causing the problem" seem to be the ones attracting the most anger.

And there's lots and lots of assertions that things are being said that have been said nowhere in the thread.

And the thing is, I am pretty sure that those misrepresenting what has been said are sincerely certain that they are dead accurate in their take on what has been said.

[NickB79]

98. Post 44 literally said "suck it up"

🤦

[Scrivener7]

99. Again, your reading is a world away from mine. Ilsa shared the difficulties she has

as a mother to a disabled child, which takes this issue of parental loneliness and increases it geometrically.

She lists a number of coping mechanisms for the problem of parental loneliness, probably ones that she has had to use all her life, one of which is "sucking it up." Because sometimes a parent, regardless of gender, DOES have to just suck it up. It's part of the job.

SAH dad needs to consider other options, like volunteering, joining a play group, finding a Mommy's Day Out program, etc, and sucking it up.

This OP was about parental loneliness that men are feeling. Ilsa strikes me as one who knows whereof she speaks on the subject of parental loneliness. And she gave four good suggestions on how to cope. One of which is "sucking it up."

[obamanut2012]

106. You are grossly misreprsenting what Ilsa said

She gave advice, as a mother will a disabled child, how she mentally and emotionally has death with it, and gave several ways she copess, including hobby groups and sucking it up. Because that is what she has to do to be more balanced.

[RobinA]

108. Well Stated

Hostility is exactly the point.

[H2O Man]

110. +1

[Torchlight]

120. OK, I shouldn't have, but your reponse prompted a giggle or two outta me

[H2O Man]

112. Gracious.

My sons were born before the concept of "family leave" took root. Their mother did not get much time off. I had worked two full-time jobs while she was pregnant, and put money aside. This allowed me to be the stay-home parent when they were itty-bitty.

My younger son is in the same position today. He is staying at home with my now one year old grandson. They can afford this, because both parents put money away in preparation.

The very best day care is, by definition, day care. It is not what our species is intended to do. For many people, however, it is the only option. And for most of them, it is mighty expensive. And don't get me wrong -- taking care of little ones is an extremely important job, and should result in meaningful pay.

Since I've never given a shit about the vast majority of people may think about me, I never thought I should get a crew-cut and a three-piece suit and go out and compete with the world while home with the boys. I knew that what I was doing was the most important thing I'd ever do in this lifetime. Luckily, I've always enjoyed doing housework, and their nap-times provided the needed time.

My son lives in a different world than I did. He is intent upon being a perfect father, with zero mistakes. I tell him perfect parents are the ones that do the best that they can, and admit if they make mistakes. Still, he invests a great amount of time studying what is the perfect diet, and knows it is not the baby food one buys in stores.

With my grandson teething, I know there are times he is tired out, just as any mother might be. Since he doesn't live far from me, he is able to stop over most days. Not to brag, but this old bag of bones is pretty darned good at comforting a teething youngster. I tell my boy he can go upstairs and sleep a few hours if he wants. We also talk about parenting. The cost of diapers, what foods the little guy likes best, and on and on.

I've never viewed parenting in the context of a battle of the sexes. It makes me sad to read some of the replies to the OP on this thread.

[hunter]

121. How is parenting in any context not a "Man's Work?"

.

[H2O Man]

129. Interesting question.

I suppose there might be some who would be stumped by it.

[hunter]

130. As a parent and a teacher you have got to be honest.

If you can't do that you fail.

[H2O Man]

142. Right.

I watch my grandson, and he wants to do everything his father does. He loves his mother, too, of course. This summer, when my son would mow my lawn, my grandson and I sat outside and watched him. When we walk by my garage -- me carrying him -- this one-year old wats to hold onto the mower, and push & pull it.

Today when I was playing some Fleetwood Mac and my son walked in the room, he and his little boy locked eyes, and started dancing with the same moves.

Children watch their parents closely. That's how they learn, and we want them to be honest. So we have to be.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

124. They need to do what women do

Someone up thread suggested volunteering at a museum or a charity. Back when I was young, that's what all of the lonely housewives did, the ones who didn't "conform" to gender norms all that well.

These days, it's not as common for women to have other women around them who are stay at home wives. For nearly all of us, our friends work. Even in the burbs, it's common now for a woman to be the only housewife on a block, or even subdivision. So even we need to find things to fill the time and let us be...us.

That's why I will give the one piece of advice I learned from being a stay at home mom when the sprog was very young:

Everyone who's a stay at home parent must carve out a space to be you and do things that are yours and yours alone. That means stuff not related to the house or your kids or even your spouse. Maybe it's leaving the sprogs with the spouse while you play D&D in town for an evening. Or take part in a real-time book club. Or, in my case, be able to go into a room, shut the door, and bang away on my Great American Novel. Maybe it's dropping the kids off with your mum or a sitter to volunteer at a museum or homeless shelter. Or maybe it's getting a book read during nap time.

Whatever it is, you have to carve out that time, and guard it with your life. You can't let anything other than the direst emergency interfere with it. Treat it like a life-or-death need.

Because you will die inside every time you ignore your need to be an adult.

[Jspur]

126. This thread was interesting before it dwelved into the dating crisis

among men. One thing I can say online dating is crap, but I won't get into why it is crap. I will say that I have known a few guys who are womanizers and can get whatever woman they want but they are not happy either. I know this one young guy who I worked with who confessed to me despite being able to easily get women that he's depressed since he doesn't have any male friends, he can confide in which has resulted in him feeling lonely.

As a man having guy friends is equally as important as having a partner.

[hunter]

132. What "dating crisis?"

Aside from clueless young men who refuse to accept (or not) that most everything they've been taught about dating is a lie.

Dear Abby frequently has nicer ways of putting this than I do and I don't think most of her advice would be hidden here.

One hopes...

I'm an especially discriminating person when it comes to my "guy friends."

[Jspur]

143. There is a dating crisis I think people in DU get sensistive about it espescially

women. I'm 40 years old and single but I'm not complaining since I had my fair share of women throughout my youth. I just wasn't committed. From what I have seen women today especially average to ugly looking women are just pickier due to having more choices on dating apps as Tinder whereas in the past they didn't have those choices. Unless you are an attractive looking guy on those apps you will not do well due to women being picky.

Not everybody will end up with a supermodel looking woman, but I do think it's a shame when an average looking man can't even get an average looking woman today. That to me is a crisis when a huge majority of guys around 60 percent are single today in their 20's. That was not the case 20 years ago. There is definitely an imbalance going on today.

[betsuni]

145. "I had my share of women throughout my youth." Oh, you "had" them. What does that mean?

"Average to ugly looking women are just pickier" WTF

DU is OK with this post. Why? WTF.

[Brenda]

146. WTF?

What a pathetic thread of whiny babies.

[betsuni]

147. It's disgusting and still here. DU is fine with it.

[Scrivener7]

148. Oh good. The incel talking point again.

And its so compelling. Because men always pursue women they think are fat and ugly. Looks don't figure into who they pursue at all.

SMDH