The Generation Gap on DU is real

[Brenda]

And it's bothering both sides of the gap. People on both sides feel like they are being mischaracterized and stereotyped.

For young people this place definitely trends "old boomer" with the types of posts and reminiscence threads, lots of incorrect memory posts and the I'm having surgery, etc. type posts.

For old people in this place they have to deal with new slang, new social medias, new social norms, new changes in laws, new tech.

The climate crisis is NOW and I think young people want to see politically engaged older people talk about THAT not trivial things like Senate clothing or other minutiae. Yet climate discussions are rare and young climate change activists are referred to as terrorists or stupid and selfish here.

Believe me, those attitudes will not gain you one single vote from young people.

People need to stop being so judgmental and narcissistic.

We are all in this together.

[MutantAndProud]

1. Agreed.

[marybourg]

2. "People need to stop being so judgmental and narcissistic."

I suggest the application of a mirror to eyes.

[Lunabell]

6. True!

Seems like someone is being ageist.

[hlthe2b]

22. In the most stereotypical and demeaning way possible. Deriding those who have posted about health

or mental wellness or bereavement issues in the many specific subgroups on DU? (None of which is limited to the very old of DU, I might add-- younger posters have health issues, mental wellness issues, and lose people in their lives). Really damned ugly in my book.

[wnylib]

37. Yup. And coming from someone who is not around enough to have a clue to

what the DU atmosphere is.

You can tell that the election season is gearing up. Divisive threads are popping up in the boards.

[intheflow]

274. Poster has been here since 2006.

They probably have a handle on DU culture.

[mercuryblues]

300. I thought

You were going to say another handle on DU.

But then I would have to explain that in my younger years, handle was also defined as a name you used on the CB, or God forbid, a walk-in talkie.

[intheflow]

301. 10-4, Good Buddy!

[mercuryblues]

317. +1

[Bongo Prophet]

326. We haven't been to a walk-in talkie since covid. Mostly takeout or drive-through-talkie these days. n/t

[wnylib]

333. But not regularly.

[intheflow]

355. You don't know that.

It’s not a crime to be a member, read everything, and also post infrequently over 17 years.

[wnylib]

356. Good grief. Who's talking about a crime?

Bit of hyperbole there.

[intheflow]

360. No more so than assuming a low post-count troll.

[wnylib]

362. I do not assume that all low counts indicate a troll.

I place priority on content when I mistrust a post.

Here's a good thread on the subject, especially the post by BComplex.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218300712

[Fla Dem]

458. Maybe, but with only 176 post in 17 years may be an infrequent visitor.

Certainly entitled to her opinions, but may not have a thorough grasp on what has gone on over the years.

[Farmer-Rick]

48. Newbies seem to forget that there are tons of specialized forums

Here on DU. There are grief, farming, gardening, writing, Netflix reviews, atheist, state and many more groups.

I was just thinking how wonderful that we can discuss men's ties and Trump asking his minions to murder the former chairman of the JCS. You cannot always be in outrage mode or you get burned out.

I think if people find someone on a subject they don't like, they should check what forum they are on.

I was once attacked for being too anti religion. I was on the atheist forum. The poster didn't realize he was on the atheist and agnostic forum.

[stuck in the middle]

53. Ha! I was once...

…attacked for being a militant atheist.

I was in the atheist forum, as well.

I was once attacked for being too anti religion. I was on the atheist forum.

[brush]

111. Just as the Dem party is a big tent, so is DU. Ignore...

the naysayers. Continue posting on environometal issues and other issues that zoomers and younger millennials are concerned with. We all heed to hear them.

Just don't insult others by being ageist.

[Farmer-Rick]

433. Yeah, it's a forum for exactly that

[Beartracks]

127. I think I remember comments about the atheist forum incident.

It seems the poster had followed a link of "recent posts" from DU's home page, and didn't realize it took him straight into a specific forum. Probably thought he he was in General Discussion, if anything.

(And no, I wasn't that poster!! )

==============

[msfiddlestix]

204. I find your OP exceedingly inaccurat on all counts. But most especially the bit that any accusation of Climate Terrorists would have been promoted.

That would not see the light of day without being alerted and removed post haste.

[intheflow]

279. Likewise, many people post about their medical problems

in GD, when there are much better places to post about that. I think a lot of long-time members don’t think about the subgroups that often. BTW, original OP has under 1000 posts but has been here since 2006, so not a newcomer, if that’s who you were referring to.

[Farmer-Rick]

434. Yeah, I wasn't really referring to them.

Just a general comment about newbies.

[paleotn]

71. Ha! Exactly!

[Scottie Mom]

73. Wow, I found the OP totally insulting. EOM

[debm55]

190. I agree about the OP causing a division. She is doing exactly what she accuses others of doing.

[wnylib]

210. So did I. Gives the impression of intentionally creating division.

[inthewind21]

359. And then

disappears. Poof

[intheflow]

381. One of their posts was removed so they can't post in the thread any more.

Love the assumptions being made in this thread!

[hlthe2b]

417. Well THAT says something in and of itself.

[intheflow]

435. Right. Because you've never had a post removed.

[hlthe2b]

436. Never on my own created thread.

One might think the OP would want to encourage discussion on their own thread-- unless the point was purely to create disruption/division. In which case, they certainly succeeded.

[stuck in the middle]

437. Posts get hidden all the time.

It’s not all that unusual.

Have you ever badmouthed guns here?

[elleng]

106. Yes, please.

Not happy to see the OP.

[MLAA]

3. I hear you. 💗

We can all stand to be more open to each other and all need to double down on climate change.

[paleotn]

72. Examples of the OP's claims?

I'm looking but can't find anyone here calling activists terrorists.

[MLAA]

98. I've been treated harshly when even softly posting about the benefits to the planet of a plant based diet.

I also mentioned the health benefits. Not by many, mostly ignored the post. But I was surprised by the rancor of one particular response. Today there was a post by a very respected member that closed by encouraging young people to just work harder. With pay growth totally unable to counter rent increases, throw in those who still have school loans yet to be forgiven and I don’t see how just working harder can overcome the challenges, so I am sensitive to younger folks seeing some insensitivity or lack of understanding from us older members.

[paleotn]

121. I agree with you. Sorry about that, but one response here and there does not a trend make.

Lots of opinions on this site but I think you'll find that the majority of us get it and agree with you on all the points you listed. I certainly do. Some of the younger engineers I work with are saddled with so much student debt it ought to be a crime. It shouldn't be this way.

[MLAA]

196. I finished Engineering school in 82 with only $6,000 of student loans and that was when

in state college was affordable.

[Stargazer99]

131. As an 82 yr old I stand with the young

maybe in earlier years working hard worked but it does not most of the time now

[MLAA]

198. It's important, but it just isn't enough these days.

[peacebuzzard]

189. I have to agree with you; I have seen certain comments get harshly ridiculed

no mercy, man. no understanding.. It is an addiction, I think. I love cooking light. I was so happy with my new stove at Christmas. And two new sinks in the kitchen. I love to cook light, primarily vegetables, power smoothies, pasta, beans. LOL. I had a roommate in NY that placed a slab of something dripping blood all over my yogurts. This was years ago. I turned in my notice that week.
One must have their own kitchen to eat right (and no carnivore roomies)

[MLAA]

195. Thanks for your reply!

[pnwmom]

257. You saw "a post." That doesn't make it representative of anyone other than that person. nt

[ShazzieB]

337. Exactly.

[elleng]

4. We are all in this together,

and I don't understand 'generation gap' problems here.

Don't like that some of us have had surgery???

[treestar]

202. Yes, and boomers care about the environment

my father would say he was glad he was in the twilight with all the problems the world faced. I was able to convince him that it did matter to him what his grandchildren faced. He quit saying that.

We may be gone and it won't be our problem, but most of us still care, because there are children/nephews and other young people we love.

[elleng]

206. Yes we do care,

A LOT.

[Tree Lady]

5. I think its a great start that Joe is creating

American Climate Corps. I am older and the environment has always been my top priority.

I think what you might be finding though is many of us myself included have worked many years on many campaigns and are ready for a new group of younger democrat activists to keep the fight going and put in some new energy.

My husband is not political and after 25 years of being together I promised him I would step back and not be as involved. I care, I vote. I talk to those I think I can influence, I do my part of not wasting resources.

[Brenda]

15. Thanks for all you have done Tree Lady!

but I think you missed my point.

[Tree Lady]

20. If your point is to accept young people

and talk more about their issues I guess its up to the young to do that. At our age our issues are a bit different like keeping SS and medicare going.

I can imagine it feels a bit too much on our side because polls we have taken have shown we have more older folks here although many of us started much younger, I started on this site in my mid 40's.

[Hekate]

80. It's amazing how the years pile up if you stick around. I recall my shock when I realized

…that a group I had always identified as being maybe late-middle-aged — that is DU — had aged as I had aged. People were admitting to being in their 70s and 80s — when the heck did that happen? Well, it happened when I crossed the line into the 70s myself.

[peacebuzzard]

7. Important to open up to the serious side.

What the younger generations are concerned about is exactly that, climate change, school shootings, and individual rights. They want to know if they are going to survive and be able to live well. I have met many who are not getting married or having children because of concern about where this whole planet is headed and whether there will be a decent life at the end of the road.

[jaxexpat]

44. You have outlined issues which were top of my list at 21 years...in 1973..

Nothing changes except the age of the observer. Passion, especially for political issues, is an item which becomes more of a rerun experience with the passage of time. Because there are always those who would support a return to the bliss of feudalism.

[peacebuzzard]

183. You know Jaxexpat, same here...

I was a devastated 1st yr college student back in 72; sure that everything was on the precipice. I wasn't wrong. It has gone way over the cliff at this point. Back in 72 the Amazon was getting sacked of butterflies, birds, everything that could be caught easily for a few bucks. The jungle, it was remote but I saw things I will never forget... I went back to that area again in 83 and it had progressed for the worse. Today it is burned out. smoldering. How do you stop the corporations and their bulldozers? We weren't wrong; we were right but it was bigger than us. And the majority could not understand. There was a saying: The riches of the jungle are forever. Greed did it in. The Natives have been killed and chased off or forced to become civilized.
It is plain as day now. Al Gore was right. We had a tiny window of opportunity. It is hard to face the facts, but I think that tiny window is gone. Gone with the butterflies.

[sammythecat]

447. +1 n/t

[H2O Man]

158. Well said!

[MineralMan]

403. I'm 78 years old. I decided not to have children in

1965. For the very reasons you mentioned. How about that? And I didn't.

Don't assume,

[peacebuzzard]

406. You know MM, I decided the same in the 70s

And, I knew this planet was going to struggle. Back then, it was called population explosion.
It was explained to my 5th grade class very somberly by a Franciscan nun.
I never forgot that lesson. Ever since it has been validated in too many forms.

[MineralMan]

412. Some of us did that. Others do not.

For me, it's just a fact. I mention it only when people say that boomers did nothing about issues. Not so. It is what it is.

[brooklynite]

8. Tell me: is this a "generational" comment?

"I don't like people who complain about topics other people aren't discussing, rather than discuss the topic itself."

If you want people to discuss climate change, how about starting a thread that discusses climate change?

[Igel]

169. That's about my take.

It's like a book or movie review that boils down to, "It's not the book or movie that I think should have been written. Therefore it's wrong and I'm going to give it a bad review. Okay, class, stick to the topic you've been assigned."

[Lunabell]

9. We're all concerned about the same things.

If younger Democrats don't want to read about "trivial things", I'm sure they're savvy enough to use the scroll down feature and not read the posts.

[Ferrets are Cool]

10. I don't say what you see.

[Srkdqltr]

11. I really think most people on DU, young or old are behind doing something about climate.

Mist of us have been behind activism.

As DU is a well rounded site people will talk about everything. We here are not all alike. I would bet that most here are worried about the climate.

Us oldsters have been talking about it since your grands were your age

Talk about judgmental.

[stuck in the middle]

12. The Who - My Generation

[Seeking Serenity]

139. My ex used to elucidate about the historic and influential nature

Of John Entwistle's bass guitar solo from that song

[peacebuzzard]

409. that was a fun flashback!

[Sympthsical]

13. I had a thought about book banning the other day

And how we spend so much time on that cultural slapfight at present.

No one's asking if kids could read the books anyway.

Education in general just isn't discussed. Student loans get the full "Bootstraps!" treatment. Childhood education goes almost unmentioned. A recent thread about Baltimore blew up because people do not want to talk about that at all (because certain people involved in education are one of our core constituencies, I imagine).

I wonder if it's because I'm in my 40s now and have watched and supervised niece and nephew's education in the public schools in recent years. I got an eyeful of what Covid lockdowns did to education and development. I see it everyday in college. My classmates are just not where they should be. I had an hour long conversation with the head of admissions for a nursing school on Friday, and the gist of it was her going, "You should see these applications. They are . . . something."

It's not going well.

But if some right-wing bozo bans a novel in Podunk, North Dakota, we can talk about that all week long.

I keep wondering, is it just because people don't have young kids in school anymore, so they don't see just what happened to an entire generation of children during Covid?

There's just this entire silence around education. And if you bring it up, they'll blame someone. Sure, but if you look at the major cities, funding, and who's in political control . . . someone has to do some answering eventually.

Which is also probably why no attention is paid. We kind of own a lot of these problems and don't want to take accountability for it.

[Hekate]

90. I'm confused. Are you talking about DU's attention to these issues? Elucidate, please.

[Sympthsical]

125. It's almost never discussed here

And my question/theory is whether or not an older demographic doesn't have kids in school and isn't directly interacting with the system as often as Millennials or Xers currently are as parents. So it isn't really foremost in mind the way other daily issues are.

Plus, culture wars are just way easier to talk about. It's zero effort. You just stick a flag in a position and call it a day. Education is a much more complex topic.

The MSM doesn't really discuss it much either, which I find curious.

If an entire generation is getting screwed up developmentally and educationally, that would kind of be an important topic, right?

But it doesn't really seem to be. Instead it's article #42 this week about a crazy person in Idaho who doesn't like Goosebumps or whatever.

[Hekate]

208. You may have noticed that DU is not the MSM, nor are we terribly impressed with them

Here’s a thing you may have missed in your alienation: the war against Fascism and Naziism and the Axis was very present in the consciousness of the country when we, the Olde Boomers, were children. For those with a mind to absorb these lessons, they were around us in abundance. How else did you imagine we learned to recognize these abominations when they showed up here?

How can you imagine that the issues we have known all our lives are not still with us each day in 2023? I find that curious indeed.
Book burnings — my mom’s high school classmates included a Jewish refugee who witnessed first hand that horror in Germany. Photos abounded…
I’ve been conscious of overpopulation since at least 1970, over 50 years, and as a result, I determined to have 2 and only 2 children, and so it was.
I’ve been conscious of the importance of fresh water to the islands of the Pacific since, say, 1961, middle school, when my Science teacher described the lens of underground fresh water floating above the waters of the sea in our Hawai’ian islands. So fragile.
I studied what were then the Trust Territories of the Pacific in the 1960s, another remnant of our parents’ late war, and contemplate the utter fragility of the existence of Micronesia, the tiny islands and atolls — and decades later when the first signs appeared of the rising seas my heart broke for the coming extinguishment of cultures that had existed for millennia.

Nothing is wasted. Nothing is forgotten. You want something posted — post it. If you don’t want it to sink too fast, do a few self-kicks. If you really want it to hang around, pick a forum other than GD.

But don’t blame the rest of us for failing to make every post one of your choosing.

[betsuni]

209. +1

[Sympthsical]

211. Yeah, this is just illustrating the problem

In great abundance.

Freedom fighting in pajamas isn't a thing.

[Hekate]

230. This illustrates why I try not to engage with you. Where were you when I was marching

… with the Veterans for Peace trying to prevent a war, educating our town, creating a virtual graveyard of the fallen in the sands by a heavily trafficked tourist wharf? Where were you in my 13 years on the County Affirmative Action Commission, trying to achieve parity in the employment practices of my county’s largest employer?

Couldn’t do that in pajamas.

We all have a history here. Bye-bye.

[betsuni]

233. +1

[Sympthsical]

284. It's simple.

When asking about a generational problem that needs addressing, and the response is "Everything's Nazis" the explanation is there. We could solve problems. But cosplay is more interesting.

Fine. We all have hobbies. But there's no conversation to be had, because the problems aren't as important as the narrative we tell ourselves.

[hlthe2b]

263. You accuse others here of being nothing but "freedom fighters in pajamas" or keyboard activists?

Then why are you here doing the same? ---not to mention that many of us have ACTION-based causes that we actively participate in real life. No, I am not posting on DU CONCURRENTLY while working with the youngest people in my state to fight back against the latest (and upcoming) attempt to ban abortion in my state, or to prevent the roll-back of gun control measures ACTIVELY fought for and successfully won after the many mass shootings in my state, nor to prevent oil drilling in the National Parks or on old growth forest land. But ALL of those things have been part of my time off DU and in real life. But, even if they were not and perhaps CAN NOT be for all other DUers, do you really think sharing information and educating others about issues, or sharing strategies is not worthwhile?

What are YOU doing in real life to make a difference? Do you bother to ask other DUers what they are currently doing (as well as what they have done in the past) towards the many critical issues facing us--of which climate change is clearly at a crisis level, but so too is saving our democracy and basic rights and yes, so too is addressing our educational system... ) ?

Every one of us has long-term priority concerns. But we also have emergent concerns--whether it be health or job or family or other that sometimes take priority over a given day's global issues. That does not mean we care any less with respect to the latter. The abysmal comment made in the OP that suggested the presence of comments posted in the many many small focused subgroups about physical health, mental health, cooking, DIY home repair, pets, or anything else validates an opinion that DU is full of old people who don't care about climate change OR education or the most important issues facing the youngest among us, is just wrong. If you are determined to believe to the contrary, there is not much I can likely say to convince you otherwise. Still, if you are convinced of this very negative take on DU, that leaves little reason to be here, is there?

[Sympthsical]

289. Let me ask you a question

If you really thought it's the 1930s - that Nazis are everywhere - and that this is justification for hyperfocusing perpetually on culture war items. If it was your rationale and earnest belief that we're on the cusp of a Fourth Reich incoming.

Would you spend so much time on social media? Because I wouldn't. That's a pretty crazy serious thing we should all be out there putting our lives and livelihoods on the line to counter. We talk game, let's go.

But people aren't doing that.

So maybe - just maybe - there is a bit of exaggeration and hyperbole happening. A little narrative. A little feeding into self-image. And maybe it's really easy to do this rather than act in accordance to the threats being advertised in such a way as to render the argument earnest.

I don't make grandiose arguments about how I'm a warrior for the end times. I'm trying to make my corner of the world better. Whether it's getting into it with my neighbors over providing more housing for people in our city, dealing with the kids' education system, going back to school to go into medicine so I feel like I'm helping more people, delivering boxes to the food bank on weekends because people are hungry, and all the little, less advertised things.

I do not hang around going, "I'm pretty much just like my grandfather who was at Normandy. Twitter, man. It's practically the trenches."

Because that? Would lack so much self-awareness, we'd have to get zombie Einstein to write new equations for how to pull people out of it.

I wasn't the one who started that train of thought. @ the person who did.

[hlthe2b]

407. I'm going to ignore this tirade as I have NOT advocated "doing nothing but respond to culture wars

So, I do not have a clue what you think you are accusing others of, but it is ridiculous. So, I'd suggest some self-reflection.

[WhiteTara]

325. You don't like us much, it seems

My first demonstration was in 1969 and I never stopped. I joined the Committee of our local Party and have worked inside politics since the 80s. So, what are you doing these days when you change out of your pajamas?

It wasn't my choice to age, but I'm learning to move into the unknown with grace and humor. Good luck with your own aging, it comes to us all should we be lucky enough to live through all that life sends our way.

[sheshe2]

231. Oh Snap!

+1000

[Hekate]

232. Oh Sistah

[sheshe2]

237. Back at ya.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

173. COVID is not the only factor in kids being behind

Most people here have not been in uni both in the "old days" and recently.

I have.

I saw the papers of my mid-2010s classmates, because one of the "new" things in uni education is to have students do the work of English profs--er, "peer review" each other's drafts for English classes, or to work in "groups" (bane of my existence) in other ones. That's why I know how few of them can write a simple sentence. The vast majority of my classmates were all but clueless about the basics of grammar and mechanics. I had to explain what a dangling participle was--to an honors high school graduate! Bloody hell, she didn't know what a participle was in the first place, never mind that it could dangle!

By the way that was in a "regular" English class. I have to make that distinction these days, because now many colleges have other than regular classes. At the local community college system where I live, I saw an article that close to half of all their students need at least one remedial class in English or maths (or both) before they can attend the regular classes. What I found the most appalling? That these colleges teach ***three*** levels of remedial classes for English and maths. Now if what I saw in a "regular" English class was appalling, imagine what a level 1 remedial class's proficiency looks like.

Call me old, but I remember when K-12 school was the "remedial" learning. You couldn't gain admission even to community colleges in the 70s without having English and maths proficiency enough to know how to capitalize a bloody sentence at the beginning.

That so many of my peers didn't know even rudimentary grammar and mechanics, that close to half of all students in my local community college system need at least one remedial class for English or math (or both) before they can attend regular survey courses in those subjects?

That's the sign of a K-12 education system in shambles...and that was the case, long before COVID.

[Sympthsical]

186. I'm back in school after 20 years

First degree in early 00's and I've been back for a little over two years now to become a nurse practitioner.

It's insane how different my English courses were vs. what is happening now. As you said, English is just not a thing. Complete thoughts and sentences. Complex ideas. Being able to make an argument.

However, there is also a marked difference in socialization. The ability to talk to one another, work together in a cooperative environment, speak during class to any meaningful degree, express original thoughts and synthesize material.

There is a thought I've heard from more than one of my current professors who think people maybe should have been held back a grade after Covid lockdowns. It became rapidly clear that very little learning was taking place remotely. As someone who supervised my nieces and nephews during that, I can say will the full authority of experience that a lot of their teachers absolutely checked the fuck out during that. Neat little mini-vacation for them. And I am still pissed about it. There were some stellar teachers during that, but they were not in the majority.

You can't just not teach kids then send them off to college, and yet that seems to be what we have just done.

And we're not even discussing what's going on with younger kids and the developmental delays. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

[ecstatic]

268. The same thing that attracts you to DU might also be a cause of frustration.

What I like about DU is there is a required level of respect that I haven't seen anywhere else on the web. For example, if you were to discuss politics on Reddit, the tone is a lot more hostile and harsh. You have to put up with very rightwing, sexist, racist and generally nasty individuals as well as individuals on our side who might express themselves in offensive ways (like the op).

That said, there are a lot of "not forbidden but forbidden" topics here. Guns and religion are tucked away in the subscription forums, but there are other topics that are super touchy for many here and therefore cannot really be discussed.

Education is one of those topics. Or at least was. Years ago, whenever the topic of education came up, people would go into defensive mode immediately and were ready to pounce on anyone who even appeared to be questioning teachers or teaching methods or curriculum. At least that was my interpretation. Things may have changed post-covid and now that school boards are being taken over by book-banning maggots. It could be that longer-term members are already conditioned to not bring education up and the newer members aren't bringing it up either. I haven't seen the Baltimore thread.

As far as the response to student loans, I think the majority sentiment was positive. There were a few shortsighted naysayers and a lot who were happy, even if they also said they wished theirs could have been forgiven too. What I've said in those threads is every group has their come up eventually. For some it will be the student loans, for some it was a major tax break, or ongoing tax break, or pandemic loan, etc. For me, it was when my county gave underwater homeowners mortgage grants. That made such a huge difference and I have a lot of equity now.

As far as climate change topics, after reading further into this thread, I think the op may have been referring to the sarcastic replies received when vegetarians /vegans blame meat eaters or insist that conversion is the only solution to climate change. In my opinion, that's an unrealistic way of starting the conversation. I think everyone here is 100% aware of climate related issues. If we keep the discussion centered on where we have common ground, I don't think there'd be a problem. But starting the conversation with demands that people go vegetarian is not going to gain a lot of traction anywhere. And obviously, PETA isn't well received here either because of some of the tactics used. Had the op been more specific, everyone would have been on the same page and able to respond to the actual grievance.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

288. I beleive the Baltimore thread was mine

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218294615

Not a single student was proficient in math. Not one student

[mahina]

307. I was just thinking about this too, and recall a peace tactic

Based on the principle that the aggressor defines the context of the battle. I think that’s why we keep hearing about this boundary-pushing lunatics banning books.

What would that look like on our side?

[Celerity]

335. +1

[BootinUp]

14. lots of incorrect memory posts? lol.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. Nothing Says "We're All In This Together" Like....

...veiled references to dementia.
The OP should be filed under "Oh, Brother!"

[hlthe2b]

26. Indeed...

[highplainsdem]

162. +1,000,000

[Igel]

170. The young have perfect memories.

They forget nothing.

Just look at how they do on tests--there's all the evidence you need.

[Iggo]

16. Most of us old folks remember when it was us on the other end.

[intheflow]

383. And yet so many seem to have forgotten!

[Iggo]

402. Yeah, but the kids think it's new.

Which is the way it’s always been. Don’t get mad about it.

[NowISeetheLight]

17. What I Like About DU

I sometimes see opinions I may not agree with, however I'm willing to listen. Just as when I post opinion others may not agree with, I feel they are opening to listening. I'm always open to learning something new and changing my mind. I've seen that countless times from others too.

I like to think of DU as a true melting pot of open thought, reason, and common sense. Information comes in, and we absorb it. We figure it out. In the end, we may not agree, but we respect. We're not like RepubQcans who are all or nothing. We realize we are a community.

We take the BEST PARTS of each of us. We all give weak parts, too. But we are OPEN MINDED. Most of all, WE CARE about other human beings. That is what separates us from the "I got mine screw everyone else" RepubQcans.

DU is what is GOOD about America and humanity.

[Upthevibe]

155. NowISeetheLight...........

Beautifully stated.....

[stuck in the middle]

18. More amused than bothered here.

Some cultural clashes are to be expected between groups of people who grew up at different times, in different places, and who have different experiences.

It actually illustrates rather common features of life in ways that most of us can relate to, as pretty much everybody has had experiences with different generations in their families and neighborhoods.

[usonian]

21. Divisive?

Some of us grew up with John Kennedy, Martin Luther King and so many young and dynamic leaders.

We fought for civil rights, against a war staged by oligarchs and felt a genuine genocide going on against young people and African Americans. Many lost their lives in the struggle, and we saw the slaughter of John and Robert Kennedy, Dr. King, Emmett Till, Medgar Evers, Addie Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson and Cynthia Wesley, James Earl Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Henry Schwerner, Viola Liuzzo, and many others.

I am on fucking fire when I see nazi scum trying to undo civil rights, push misogynist crap and a gospel of hate.

I challenge youth to have the resolve and energy, yes energy to stamp out decades of troglodyte scum blinded by race hate.

¥ou're as old as you think.

[keopeli]

34. Don't forget the deliberate "let them die" genocide of countless people with AIDS.

[usonian]

50. Let me count the ways!

The fascist playbook. Unite the cult by demonizing this group, that group ...

Whitewash history or obliterate it.

We don't forget and we don't forgive.

We do remember individuals, and I shortened that list, but we forget thousands and millions who suffered and died from power trips and hate-mongering.

[Hope22]

277. It was true with AIDS and Covid....

Seniors were dispensable. I thought we were going to be locked at home forever. The young continued to gather and move about the world because they were told only only the oldsters would die. The seniors stayed home, vaccinated when available and masked when out in public. The goal was to slow the spread and stop the mutations. I feel like the over 50’s kept an awful situation from becoming an even darker disaster!

[keopeli]

354. You're right. The 50+ folks kept Covid from being MUCH worse.

[AntivaxHunters]

149. You challenge young people to stamp out troglodyte scum?

Black Block.
End of story.

[nevergiveup]

23. Bring on all the young folks.

I am turning 80 next year and I love them all.

[Tree Lady]

216. Feel the same way

Can't wait for a bunch of new young leaders. We have some already and could use many more!

I am 67 but since all of us had kids early I am a great gramma to two little boys 2 & 6 months.

[boston bean]

24. Hello Brenda. Very insulting to older people.

And I am sorry but if the young generation can’t understand gluing one’s feet or hand to cement or concrete isn’t helping or blame others for pointing it out, I don’t know what else to tell them but to grow up.

They ain’t got the only say.

[Brenda]

33. Hello boston bean.

I did not say anything insulting to older people.

BTW, I'm 64.

Those people are gluing their hands to get attention to the CLIMATE CHAOS just like Quảng Đức

[JI7]

41. How is gluing their hands going to stop climates change ?

[Think. Again.]

56. How was marching across the Pettus Bridge...

...going to assure Civil Rights?

[JI7]

64. lol, great comparison. Dealing with climate change involves changes in lifestyle

One of the biggest being to cut down on meat and people have a more vegan diet.

Are these people advocating ban on beef ?

[Think. Again.]

109. Yes.

[hlthe2b]

88. Ahh, another newb who has no grasp of history, no understanding of that which came before, yet

believes they know all.

[Think. Again.]

99. And you believe...

...you know how old I am.

[hlthe2b]

105. I don't care how old you are. That is the difference.

[pazzyanne]

153. Some "newbs" are new to this forum.

For example, I consider myself a "newb" who came here in 2017. I turned 80 three months ago. I stayed because I learn so much from those who post here.

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or at eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young."
Henry Ford

[inthewind21]

361. You didn't

seriously just ask that. Oy Vey!

[Think. Again.]

368. Sure did....

...to point out that protest actions may seem unrelated to the cause being persued but can still be effective actions, which was being questioned by the post it was a reply to.

[reACTIONary]

203. How is sitting down at a lunch counter..

.... going to stop racism ?

[betsuni]

207. "As the Jackson Free Press reported, John Salter, a professor at Tougaloo College, was sitting

with his three Black students -- Anne Moody, Pearlena Lewis, and Memphis Moody -- at the 'Whites Only' lunch counter in Woolworth's. Nobody would serve them. This was 1963.

"'The police officers were watching just a few feet away while these thugs were kicking this young Black guy. Kicking him in the face. Finally they broke it up and arrested Norman and someone else. Anne was pulled from her seat, as was Pearlena, but they fought their way back to the counter. John Salter was struck down by a punch, leaving Anne and Pearlena, at the counter. They were smeared with ketchup, mustard, sugar, anything that was on the counter. They sat and faced the front.' They did not take [the] advice to 'curse, scream, and name-call.' They were exceedingly civil, and their actions were unbelievably powerful.'

"'But anger is not a strategy. Sometimes it's a trap.'"

Steven Stoft, "Ripped Apart"

The American public supported the civil rights movement because of this approach.

[paleotn]

78. "I did not say anything insulting to older people."

You're kidding, right? Right? This post and yours at the top of the thread. The dissonance is deafening.

[Tarc]

84. Lol, no

The "gluing their hands" crowd are delusional. That is the beginning and the end of it.

[Think. Again.]

87. Got YOU to remember them though.

[Tarc]

430. Remember them as foolish, yes

And not a single thought for the specifics f their "protest".

[Think. Again.]

432. Yeah...that's right...

...nobody remembers they were denouncing fossil fuels and concerned about the climate.

Nope. No one. Certainly not you of course. You didn't even know that's what they were there for, did ya?

Nope, it was to protest fine art, wasn't it. They were mad that people put glass in front of fine art, weren't they?

And absolutely nobody is still engaged, tonight, months after their 20 minute protest against protective glass, absolutely nobody is still engaged in a discussion about their action, nope, absolutely nobody.

Certainly not you, that's for sure.

[Tarc]

444. Thank you for affirming that I'm Right

Your ilk is helpful.

[Think. Again.]

446. (did I REALLY need the sarcasm emoji for that???)

[debm55]

223. you are free to post about items conditions that interest you. But you come across as self righteous

Last edited Mon Sep 25, 2023, 08:29 PM - Edit history (2)

I looked up some of your other posts and you are the same--looking to pick a fight with others.

[anciano]

25. Interesting post ....

First, I am an "old boomer" and occasionally find some of the reminiscent postings quite enjoyable to read. But although each of us has a personal list of priorities for our individual lives, I do agree that the climate crisis needs to be a top priority collective issue for us all, because if we don't get the climate situation under control, then ultimately nothing else is going to matter.

[Duppers]

38. Indeed! 👍

"if we don't get the climate situation under control, then ultimately nothing else is going to matter"


A few of us have been saying this and have been criticized for saying that the planet can only support so many people.
Humans are causing our climate crisis.

[mcar]

27. This site wouldn't exist without us Boomers

Good gad.

[onecaliberal]

39. I know right. Not sure we will be better off. 🤦🏼‍♀️

[Croney]

28. Send not to ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.

It might be hard to imagine now, but surgery could be in your future. Someone here will listen to your story and you will be grateful.

[NoMoreRepugs]

29. I'm a geezer and all in on the younger voter leading the way.

[MOMFUDSKI]

30. We oldies can certainly learn from youngies.

That street goes both ways. Us oldies hit the streets and stopped a war and gained womens’ rights. I would like to see a little more fire in the youngies than I am seeing. I would still be out in the streets if my old body could carry me there. Change is more difficult to accomplish via phones/computers. We are all in this together but some of us are just plain unable to participate with bullhorns now.

[pazzyanne]

159. + 1 nt

[JI7]

31. Young people didn't support Jay Inslee

who was the best on environmental issues.

And not sure which "activists" you are referring to but they aren't much of activists or even care about there issue if they are upset someone said something mean.

And posting on DU doesn't make one an activist .

[bottomofthehill]

46. Thank you for noting.

Some of my favorite keyboard commandos reside here at DU. I come to learn from others, not just to blindly agree. There is plenty of room to my left, but much more to my right. I am by far the furthest to the left of the people that work in my space. I must admit, some of the things I read here make me scratch my head. As I said I don’t always agree but I try to understand. What we need is a LOT more understanding.

[DFW]

151. I was an early supporter of Jay's presidential run

I talked to him for about half an hour in April of 2019, and decided this guy and I are on the same page. So, of course, my bad luck held and Jay’s campaign fizzled out almost before it started. I developed a few theories as to how the campaign would shake out, but stated no personal preferences other than that I would never support any Senator for the nomination who had publicly urged Al Franken to resign in 2017. This meant no Booker, Warren, Gillibrand, Sanders or Harris. I would, of course support our nominee, regardless of my personal preferences.

But I supported Jay precisely due to his stance on the environment. His state is about 6000 miles from where I live, but when people in a country where few private residences have air conditioners, including mine, complain of it being too hot to sleep, something’s wrong with the world, and we all knew what. At least we now have a president who cares, although Democratic presidents since Jimmy Carter have been stuck with tackling damage control from the Republican administration that preceded them. This has hindered every one, to varying degrees.

As for DU, especially when discussing SUCH a diverse group of people, with such varied backgrounds, I find that broad, stereotypical generalizations tend to be of about as much value as a Tucker Carlson rant: entertaining, in an Andy Borowitz sort of way, but nothing I feel touches me, was directed at me, or is something I’ll remember a week from now.

[betsuni]

175. +1

[Hekate]

213. +1

[TygrBright]

32. Only partly guilty as charged...

Yup, as an old boomer, I do bring my long years of experience to my participation. I'm trying to provide some perspective, I guess. And yeah, honestly, I DO remember how much it used to grate on me when the "old Lefties" of my youth did the same thing. People still alive who'd sat in a cold plant in Detroit to win rights for auto workers. People who still had their IWW cards. People who'd been actually blacklisted in the 1950s, or were married to, or knew people who had.

Their perspectives were the perspectives of a generation before mine. How relevant could they be? (Spoiler - a lot, actually, but I didn't know that at the time.) They did not understand my generation's existential crisis of civil rights for people other than male caucasians, and keeping from being sent to be blown to hell in a fetid jungle for the benefit of... whatever. Their refusal to act in solidarity with us led, in my mind, to the disasters of the Chicago Democratic Convention in 1968, that started the downhill slide that led to Nixon.

I do actually see things somewhat differently now. What I'd tell my younger self, had I the chance, would be "It's more complicated than that. Experience does matter because yes, history rhymes. So be patient with them. They're not always right but they're not necessarily wrong. And they're hella better than what we're ALL trying to oppose."

BUT - I do also actually appreciate, even like, sometimes love learning about the new slang, the new tech, the new perspectives that shape younger generations' reality.

And I do absolutely agree with you that the existential crises of the younger generations - climate change, massive economic inequities that threaten democracy, the fast-receding "American Dream" that puts the prosperity of earlier generations further and further out of reach - are the issues of our time. The issues that will shape the future of our children, our grandchildren, and our planet.

Each generation has to learn the hard way what does, and does not, work to both achieve change and make it into a new and lasting reality. My generation brought both the moral power of nonviolence and the political power of violence to the streets in pursuit of justice and equality and survival. Some of the changes we fought for lasted. Some did not. Some turned out to be dragons teeth we'd sown to our regret. Some still make me proud to have been a participant in bringing them forth.

We DO have your backs. You are our children, our grandchildren, the future of all we fight for and care about, then and now.

Keep demanding the respect owed you, both for who you are and for what you are doing. That's part of the process, too. You have it, in measure you may not always perceive, from all of us who know we're leaving you with this horrid mess and we didn't do nearly enough to prevent it.

But also, please remember we're cranky old farts with aches and pains and an awareness different than yours, and extend us a measure of patience in return.

Above all, you see... we love you.

Never forget that.

You are our hope.

And you are a better legacy that we deserve.

respectfully,
Bright

[bahboo]

102. I wish I could recommend this to infinity...

so clearly and artfully stated. Summed up exactly how I feel.....but way, way better....

[pazzyanne]

163. Excellent!!! nt

[druidity33]

267. Can't wait to recommend replies on DU4! nt.

[mahina]

312. OP is 64

Your reply is beautiful.

Aloha.

[Unwind Your Mind]

331. Oh Bright, so beautifully said

From my Gen X perspective, I do appreciate you

[BigOleDummy]

342. Its replies like this..

... that keep me from posting more often. Perfect and encapsulates what I'd like to be able to say but can 't always find the words for.

[Unwind Your Mind]

440. Same

So often, I have a thought but someone else has already said it and better than I could

[LiberaBlueDem]

35. Boomers will not solve climate crisis

We created it! But we will not take the blame.

As for DU, yeah, it's a bit self--centered and cliqueish. We boomers have ours, well, you know the rest.

All I can say is ""Sorry kids"" the world as we knew it will not exist for you. Gone are the birds, clean and bountiful waters and the woods we boomers grew up with.

[Cetacea]

112. Boomers weren't responsible for the Climate Crises. That's on the so-called Greatest Generation

Any hope of saving earth ended with Reagan, as did any hope of a truly blue social/economic structure. The Left never recovered.
If you voted for Reagan then you can blame yourself.
Boomers were marching in the streets and getting killed.
No need to list all of the things they accomplished.

[Voltaire2]

363. Boomers have been governing since Clinton.

At what point does blame get assigned? It’s been 30 years. It’s been so long that we are getting to old and younger generations are taking over.

[pnwmom]

373. The progressive Boomers on DU shouldn't be blamed for actions taken by Republican Boomers

that we strongly opposed.

All progressives/liberals/Democrats of all ages should stand together now

[Voltaire2]

410. The thing about a generation is that it is an set of people grouped by age.

So it really doesn't matter if you, a boomer, don't associate with some subset of boomers. It is the generation as a whole that is 'the character' of the generation. As a whole, during our time in power, we are leaving the world we inherited in a drastically worse state. We own this. We can't blame our parents anymore, mostly our parents are dead.

[pnwmom]

415. The thing about a generation is that it is an ARBITRARY grouping of people by age.

People in the Boomer generation born in the 40's had a very different experience than those born in the 60's.

The people who were fighting the same battles in the 60's, 70's and 80's that have led to today shouldn't be blamed because of the particular set of years they happened to be born in.

But you can say anything you want about the "Boomer generation." That doesn't mean those claims apply to the particular group of Boomers that are on DU. It's just insulting to suggest that.

[Voltaire2]

422. Sure.

Yes of course the subset of boomers on du is likely not identical in its average characteristics compared to those same averages in the entire set of boomers. It is certainly less trumpy But also it does share a lot of the same qualities.

None of that changes the fact that the boomer generation has been in power now for three decades and it has not been a good run.

[brush]

150. Boomers started the environmental movement with "Earth Day"...

in the '60s, along with the anti-war demonstrations, were participants in the civil rights movement, social activism and on and on.

Would love to see that commitment to activism in the younger generations.

[LiberaBlueDem]

156. It is amazing what a minority can do

Like you said we did a lot.
I'd like to see us boomers do it again.
But what I see in the real world is more big pickups, more big houses and more business.
Latest vote totals show a majority of boomers voted for trump in 2020.
And the majority of young voted for Biden.

[brush]

165. By majority what do you mean? 53-47, 57-43%?

DU is full of boomers who didn't become what we protested against. Tons of us voted for Biden, Hillary, Obama, Kerry, Gore and on and on back.

IMO it's a mischaracterization to insinuate most boomers voted for trump...especially in 2020 because he lost. Remember, boomers vote heavily, many younger cohorts don't. I say Biden's win was helped by boomer voters.

The fact that we're on DU talking about the many boomers here still active in politics is a testament to the above.

[pnwmom]

371. Right, a majority of boomers did vote for Trump. But you've been dumping on progressive Boomers

here on DU, who can't stand him and are trying to fight him.

[Voltaire2]

411. Perhaps, although it was also probably people a bit older.

But for sure we have been the generation in power while the global system of civilization destroyed the environment by doing essentially nothing to transition the system to a low growth sustainable system.

So we can pat ourselves on the back for 'Earth Day', while the planet slips past +1.5c.

[brush]

414. The civil rights leaders, yes, but the majority of activest...

were college age activists/demonstrators, now boomers, and many of them did not sell out to become what they protested against.

We see in that quite often in poster sentiment on DU.

[brush]

416. I say we can pat ourselves on the back as environmental.....

consciousness began with the progressive boomers. And most people with critical thinking skills know climate change is the result of accumulated human activity of carbon burning fuel usage over centuries, not just the period when you say boomers were in power...insinuating that boomers are solely responsible for +1.5c.

That includes the many centuries of wood and coal burning for fuel, the carbon belching steel furnaces, open trash burning, rail and auto exhausts and on and on without any thought of environmental consequences.

[Voltaire2]

420. No it did not start with boomers

We learned from our wiser elders, we did not invent environmentalism. Thoreau and Muir were back in the 1800s. Rachel Carson was absolutely not a boomer. These founders of GreenPeace, Jim Bohlen (1926), Irving Stowe (1915), Dorothy Stowe (1920) were not boomers. Paul Watson (1950), as far as I can tell, was the only boomer among them.

And we've been the generation in power for 30 years. We are presiding over a global catastrophe of unprecedented scale that we could have averted, or at least we could have seriously tried to avert. But we didn't, and the buck stops with us. At least we could take responsibility for the mess we are leaving behind.

[brush]

424. Ridiculous. Progressive boomers/Earth Day made environmental consciousness...

something that heavy smoking and gas-guzzling, heavy exhausts generating vast majorities of the greatest and previous cohorts who had no concern or idea of, become aware of, because of the activism of their children and grandchildren.

And as far as +1.5c, that's, like I said, an accumulation of centuries of human activity of generating, burning and releasing fossil fuel pollution into the atmosphere/greenhouse effect (generally acknowledged by scientists), not just during the so-called time boomers were allegedly "in charge."

How silly.

[Hekate]

224. Good gravy. Where were you when we started the environmental movement?

[Mariana]

229. They weren't here yet.

However, they were here to see the majority of Boomers vote for Trump, after he promised to do away with various environmental protection measures. Then they saw him do exactly that.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/25/politics/trump-environmental-rollbacks-list/index.html

[sheshe2]

242. Where in the article does it state that a majority of boomers voted for trump?

[ProfessorGAC]

353. Maybe Not In That Article, But...

...it's an accurate statement.
Here's a Pew report that shows the '16, '18, & '20 elections.
You'll have to scroll down a few pages to a heading that says:
.

Young voters were a strong group for the Democrats, but less so than in 2018

There you will see Boomers went for TFG 50 to 46 in '16 & 51-48 in '20.
That said, The Silent Generation went for TFG by WAY more.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/

[SCantiGOP]

36. A 70 year old agrees with you

I would be thrilled to never see another cat pic, surgery discussion, or request on how to change the remote batteries.
Keep The Lounge for frivolity, and everything else should be current content that impacts our political condition and future trends.

[Mossfern]

367. This is the General Discussion Forum

I thought we could talk about anything.
There are several specific topic forums.

Please explain what topics are not included in "General."

[SCantiGOP]

378. There are specific categories

For animals and health and most everything else discussed here.

[Mossfern]

385. Yes, I acknowledged that

so what is meant by General Discussion and what is appropriate subject matter for it?

What if someone has a medical question and wants to pose it to a larger population, reaching those who don't regularly post in the Health forum?

[jmbar2]

40. Most US environmental protection regulations were put in place by boomers...

and we support all efforts to address the very threatening reality of climate change.

...but I digress.

I am seeing on a variety of media, posts that try to stir up antagonism between generations, targeting younger generations to resent boomers. There's a lot of that on Reddit right now. It comes in waves.

In some cases, I suspect that malign entities may be engaging in well-known propaganda technique called "Reflexive Control" to try to create a generational split on the left ahead of elections.

My apologies to the OP if this is not you. However, for all the folks on here with defective memories, this is how it works.

The end goal for these efforts is to trigger emotional reactions and drive people to ideological extremes, making it nearly impossible to build a consensus. The Russians also hope those who are not driven to extreme positions will throw up their hands in frustration and check out. The result is political paralysis.

Here's a notional example: Suppose you and a neighbor agree that your property taxes are too high, but disagree on issues related to sensitive topics like race relations or immigration. You start seeing online memes focusing on extreme views on these topics. Those memes evoke strong reactions, painting the issue as a battle between two extremes. You begin thinking of your neighbor based on this false dichotomy. The neighbor becomes one of “them” rather than a person with whom you had some commonality. After all, it's difficult to agree on most anything when you and your neighbor view each other as racist or anti-American.

...
Their focus is to gin people up to be against one another regardless of their identity or political beliefs. That's why Russia tries to infiltrate groups of both Black Lives Matter and white nationalists online.

Just a thought. Again, apologies if this is not your intent, but it does happen.

https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/07/how-you-can-fight-russias-plans-to-troll-americans.html

[LiberaBlueDem]

55. Been fighting the boomers and their denial of reality for years

Good to see youngsters calling them out for their sins.

[Generic Brad]

113. Boomers make up the largest homeless demographic in the country

If you're going to paint us with a broad brush, you're missing the true picture.

[AntivaxHunters]

441. Incorrect. Young voters are largest unsheltered population

[link:https://caufsociety.com/who-is-homeless/#:~:text=The%20homeless%20population%20is%20composed,it%20at%20once%20each%20year.|]

[pnwmom]

248. You think all Boomers are the same? People like Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump

are the same?

You think it's a sin for the progressive Democrats on this site to have gotten to know each other over the years, and to discuss a wide range of topics besides climate change?

I don't know what you're doing on this site, really, though you claim to be a "LiberalBlueDem."

[betsuni]

256. +1

[Hekate]

445. +2

[appalachiablue]

123. +1 Efforts to divide generations for 2024, I recently saw 2 boomers & millennials headlines.

[oregonjen]

144. This deserves its own thread

Division is the plan. And with this whole thread, there’s a lot of it.

[jmbar2]

214. Thanks - done!

That OP was very skilled in starting a raging battle, with some help from others. Very suspect. Similar to what I'm seeing on Reddit.

[betsuni]

180. +1

[Nixie]

215. +1

“environmental protections put in place by boomers.”

Amen. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge or mention Al Gore and what he offered as President some 23 years ago is not in any position to lecture about climate change.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

291. Just to add it's not just the Russians

but the internet and social media creates these bubbles that encourages division by selectively reaffirming whatever you personally believe.

..and it's all done voluntarily

[mahina]

338. This is a great post

Thank you. I hope you post it later as an OP.

[malaise]

42. Great OP

I’m siding with the youth - succession planning is the only path to continuity. The future belongs to the young folks.

[Baitball Blogger]

43. We can learn from each other.

As a late baby boomer I see both sides. I tend to side with the younger generations. But I also don’t care when either side gets completely dismissive of the other’s experience. If we could have stopped the negative changes, we would have. You will face the same obstacles we did. The main advantage today is that we can work with each other to reach our common goals.

[kacekwl]

45. I don't mind being called a Bommer

or not understanding current slang. I know how to use a rotory phone and can operate a record player and VCR. So there's that Dude.

[keopeli]

47. This is one of the most divisive posts I've ever seen on DU. That "gap" is only real in your mind.

Every Democrat is welcome here. Plus, we don't wear our age on our sleeve (profile) generally.

Little kids have surgery, too.

I have never seen a DU post that is outright dismissive of climate change. In fact, it's just the opposite.

"New slang"? "New social media"? "New social norms"? "New laws"? "New tech"? What the heck does this even mean? If anything, we DUers help people who ask for assistance with these things. And we don't care how old the people asking/answering are!

What is an "old boomer type of post?" A "reminiscence thread" is awesome, young or old! Who here does not want to learn from folks with first-hand experience?

Don't even get me started on "incorrect memory posts".

DU has some of the best written essays, perspectives, opinions, commentary, etc. When I read any of these awesome posts, all I can think of is how fortunate we are to have such talent being shared freely among each other. I have never once, after reading an awesome discussion, asked myself, "I wonder how old the OP is?" Not once. You know why? Because I don't care.

If Jimmy Carter posted tomorrow about our housing crisis and Habitat for Humanity, it would not enter my mind to consider why he failed to say anything about climate change, much less that he's 99 after all, so he must not care what is happening to the planet.

My suggestion is to open yourself up to the panoply of different voices, opinions, and experiences here and, if you have a passion, share it with us. We will support you and encourage you. Explore the many topical discussion boards here. There is something for everyone. Most of all, lift each other up. That is model behavior on DU and we all need it during these challenging times.

PS - Don't forget to enjoy and share some cat posts, too, just for fun!

[LiberaBlueDem]

51. We are in a crisis

Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2023, 07:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Jimmy Carter warned us 40 years ago that we would have this crisis and I have seen many DU posts saying he was full of it.

It is disrespectful to talk down to the young since they see the crisis and so many of us still ignoring the reality.

[hlthe2b]

59. If you truly believe that you know NOTHING.

[LiberaBlueDem]

62. Know nothing?

You say that because I am a newby, or are you just mad?

[hlthe2b]

67. I say that because you show you clearly know NO history and simply stereotype everyone else.

It appears that your motivation is merely to call out everyone older than you--including progressive older Democrats of DU, and to be disruptive and divisive. If that is the case, you have succeeded with this post.

[LiberaBlueDem]

75. Jimmy Carter was my hero

I am an older boomer! I know history

And I am a real tree-hugger. Water warrior and Earth Firster!

[hlthe2b]

82. So, ONLY YOU are? You assume none of the rest of us are and simply come to scold us all.

That high horse you are sitting on is an illusion. You owe some apologies all the way around here or perhaps it is you who do not belong.

[Think. Again.]

89. I did NOT...

...see ANY of that in LiberaBlueDem's post!

[hlthe2b]

92. There is a lot you don't see and a lot of history and even current events you apparently don't know

either--give your downstream posts. I know you won't read my sigline and if you did it would likely mean nothing to you. But maybe one day...

[Think. Again.]

103. Wow...

...you pretend to know a lot about me.

[hlthe2b]

107. You have told us a lot about yourself through your ill-informed attitudes and attacks on many here.

who are not your enemy. Many here have worked to lay the groundwork for what lies ahead if we are to succeed. So, continue being accusatory and throwing unearned blame at others here who you have no idea what they have done the past year, the past decade, or throughout a very long life. That includes a lot of activists of every generation outside DU as well.

[Think. Again.]

108. You consider...

...my defense of climate action, and intolerance of climate action slow-walking an attack?

[hlthe2b]

110. Your accusations towards the many here you don't know is just that.

Sad, generally sad that you can't see beyond yourself.

[Think. Again.]

116. I invite you to...

...send me quotes of things I've written, in context, that you consider 'attacks' or 'accusations'.

You can send them privately to my mailbox if you prefer.

I honestly don't know what you are talking about.

I have stood firm against B.S., but I have NOT attacked or accused.

Edit to add: My entire journal is wide open, have at it.

[hlthe2b]

122. Such divisiveness is not worth mine or anyone's further time and none here are deserving of your

accusatory, yet fully ill-informed tone. I have no idea why you are even here if you think we are all so horrible and unconcerned about climate change or anything else. WAKE UP! This is a forum literally comprised of activists on any number of progressive/democratic issues--regardless of generation/age. If you bothered to learn about what others are doing here, you might learn that and quite a bit more.

[Think. Again.]

129. Classic cop out.

[hlthe2b]

143. Classic belligerence towards others who very likely welcomed you to DU when you first registered.

Yet, your accusations make it clear you think WE are all the enemy in your mind. Given that, there is no way anyone here should put up with that from you or anyone else. If you have such disrespect for this forum, for others on posting here--regardless of age, specific interest, or background and are unwilling to inform yourself about them before making accusations against DU as a whole-- I honestly think you might question why you are here. Was it you who stated you believed the march across the Pettus Bridge had nothing to do with the success of the civil rights movement? (Or perhaps another of the throng that seems to want to divide on this thread...) My gawd. Read a history book or even google a few things now and then...

[Think. Again.]

145. Again...

...you might want to check my journal.

None of what you are accusing me of is real.

Also, if you go back just a few posts on this thread, you'll see that it is you who is attacking me.

[Hekate]

228. THANK YOU

Why are they even here? Did the bat signal go up tonight? While they’re wailing and gnashing their teeth over how DU is nothing but Boomers and shame on us for being old and stupid and cliquish — well, somehow they’ve managed to collect nearly 300 replies from all us people who don’t care.
Oy

[LiberaBlueDem]

94. Heh, thanks Again

Seems some are mad about the climate crisis but not in the same way we are?

[Think. Again.]

137. Yep...

...and they think bullying still works.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

60. Please

links?

[GP6971]

63. Did you take a wrong turn somewhere?

[JI7]

65. They aren't seeing any crisis if they are complaining about people being mean

Dealing with climate change involves changes in lifestyle.

[LiberaBlueDem]

81. Yep. Change in lifestyle

I've done just that. Easier the older I get and the more I know and see what is happening to the planet.

Boomers should all be cutting back, but I don't see them doing so. And even here they get upset when they are called out.

[Mossfern]

370. What is your evidence

that "Boomers" (sorry, I hate that term) are not cutting back?
Honest question. Also, what does "cutting back" look like?

And if indeed we are not cutting back on whatever, what is your evidence that younger generations as a population, not activists, are?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

388. Yes

I'd like to know what "easy" changes in lifestyle have been made, as well. You'd think someone so concerned about it would enlighten the rest of us slackers.

I'm sensing socks with all the high fiving and atta boys going on.

[keopeli]

100. Who is talking down to the young? Who here on DU is "ignoring the reality"?

I remember Carter's warnings very well. But, you may have missed my point about context in reference to Carter.

Why is there a generalization being made that DU members that are members of the Baby Boomer generation are "still ignoring the reality?"

[LiberaBlueDem]

118. Many on DU are not ignoring

But in the real world, ignorance is very strongly infecting.

Still, some on DU are acting like there is no crisis even tho Biden has said we are in a crisis.

As for the personal stuff, it is best to not get personal here, eh?

[keopeli]

218. Okay, now I agree, definitely. It was the suggestion that DU is ignoring the climate I took poorly.

And, yes, there are exceptions here on DU, too, sadly.

Thank you, LiberaBlueDem.

Yes, the personal stuff does not belong here, to put it mildly.

Be well!

[sinkingfeeling]

152. Please provide just one of the 'many DU posts' saying Jimmy Carter was full of it.

I read DU daily and can't recall such a post.

[betsuni]

188. No, there were not any DU posts saying Carter was "full of it."

[thucythucy]

194. "...I have seen many DU posts saying he--" President Carter--"was full of it."

Please refer us to some of these posts saying President Carter "was full of it" for warning us about the environmental crisis we were lurching into by burning fossil fuels.

I'd define "many" in this context as at least a half dozen. So it should be easy for you to find some of these.

Personally, I've only ever seen posts on DU that are highly appreciative of what President Carter tried to accomplish during his years in office--and afterwards.

But if there are "many" here saying "he was full of it" I'd like to see some examples, so I can rebut such a nonsensical idea.

[sheshe2]

243. Link or slink.

You can use 'advanced search' to find all those posts. Have at it!

[pnwmom]

250. I've been here a lot longer than you have and I've seen nothing but praise for Jimmy Carter.

And I've never read anyone say on DU that climate change isn't real and isn't threatening the planet.

[betsuni]

258. +1

[ShazzieB]

395. Same here.

I've never seen any posts about Carter here at DU that weren't highly laudatory, at least not recently. What I have seen here are loads of posts about the climate crisis that indicate a high level of awareness and concern about climate change. Same thing with a lot of other issues, like the upsurge in persecution (I don't know what else to call it) of the LGBTQ+ community, the assault on reproductive rights, and YES, book banning, to name just a few examples. Oh, I almost forgot to mention gun violence and racism, didn't I? And voter suppression and other ways that the Right are hacking away at the roots of our Democratic system. And, and, and, and.

I could go on and on, but who wants to read a laundry list. The point here is that I see discussion of all sorts of issues, including climate change here at DU. The idea that no one here cares about it is absolutely absurd, afaic.

It's true that we talk about lots of things other than politics here, especially in the Lounge and in the various forums. That is something I enjoy and appreciate about DU. This is not just a political forum; it's a real community and has been longer than a lot of us (including me) have been here. If someone disapproves of that, they don't have to participate in those topics. Personally, I enjoy hanging out with people who share my concerns about the state of this country, whether we're talking politcs, sharing cat pics, supporting each other through health problems and personal losses, or just having a laugh. If there's something wrong with that, the I guess there must be something wrong with me.

[Cetacea]

457. +1

Same

[MorbidButterflyTat]

57. +1

[Croney]

58. Good post.

[keopeli]

120. How kind of you to respond to my opinion. Thank you. I'm sorry you seem to have completely missed

the point in what I was trying to express. Some people are fond of 'name-calling', though I am not among them. It doesn't help explain or clarify what you are trying to say. In fact, it does just the opposite. I try very hard to avoid name-calling. After all, I don't know the first thing about you. I am able to read, though, which is why I responded to your OP.

I doubt engaging with you further will benefit either of us. As such, I'm just going to decline to address this matter further with you. I hope you understand.

I hope the rest of the day goes well for you and leads to a fantastic week ahead!

All the best!

[BComplex]

200. I second your post, Keopeli. There's no call for that kind of post.

And it's just blatantly untrue.

"Yet climate discussions are rare and young climate change activists are referred to as terrorists or stupid and selfish here."

I have never heard any DUer refer to a climate change activist as a "terrorist" or "stupid" or "selfish". Totally the opposite.

I would request that the original poster link some threads where actual DUers did this, and somehow did not get themselves banned, or their posts tossed.

[keopeli]

219. Thank you, BComplex. I found the comments not only untrue, but offensive.

[LiberaBlueDem]

52. Wolf is at the door

No maybe

Boomers are ignoring the wolf. Same as it ever was.

[sinkingfeeling]

161. You do realize 'Boomers' are not the only demographic on DU, in the Democratic Party, or

in the country. I certainly am not buying fossil fuel driven mammoth pickup trucks nor buying things made by slave labor on Shein or using Amazon/Walmart. As an older person, my impact on the climate continues to decline, so I refuse to accept that we have ignored the problems 'as ever'.

[Think. Again.]

74. Excuse my disagreement....

...but, that type of post-- the type of post that promotes doing nothing to inhibit the effects of CO2 emissions because:

"it's too late! Give up and build a boat!"

Is exactly the kind of climate change anti-action rhetoric that realllllly should not be tolerated at this extremely important moment in time.

The more we do right now to decrease CO2 emissions, the very much less suffering we will be bringing to the next generations.

[LiberaBlueDem]

86. That would require action

Action that overcomes the ignorance.

It could happen, but I am losing faith.

[Think. Again.]

96. I absolutely agree...

...and I give My Deepest Gratitude to ALL Those who call for ACTION.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

298. Here on DU?!?!

anti-action rhetoric that realllllly should not be tolerated

Are you suggesting booting a DU member based on their opinion because it doesn't match yours, or generally speaking?

I mean, I really like the climate group at DKos, and even they say, for example, that it's too late to stop glacial melt in Antarctica (global sea rise) AND 1.5 degrees are baked in already - and it isn't an opinion piece either. They post hard science...

It doesn't mean we "give up", but accept the science (and reality of the situation), and shift gears to what you can control and meaningfully impact.

[Think. Again.]

316. my post clearly...

...does NOT suggest "booting a DU member based on their opinion because it doesn't match yours, or generally speaking?" Please refrain from adding meaning to my words that I did not express.

Also, the post I replied to did not advocate for prioritizing action (which I would have agreed with), instead it implied we should stop all efforts to decrease the coming damages of climate change and to focus solely on adaptation to the worst of those damages.

I stand by my statement that advocating for no actions to be taken to decrease the effects of climate change should not be tolerated and instead should be challenged.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

318. Fair enough

[MusicLikeDirt]

76. That dog hunts and it hunts well

At what post count does one become all knowing and wise enough to rudely discount the ideas and opinions of low post count subhumans? Is there a caste system? Hazing? Initiation?

As the youngs would say: "that is cringe AF."

OP's commentary didn't sound like a lecture at all.

[JoseBalow]

172. Lurk moar, n00b!

[intheflow]

295. OP's been here since 2006.

Not a newbie, just doesn’t post much. But please, go on with your baseless assumptions.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

54. Sounds serious.

[LoisB]

61. Interesting take. I'm an "old boomer" who doesn't see what you see on DU. I see a group of

people from varied walks of life who are compassionate, funny, talented, well-read, politically savvy, intelligent, artistic, etc. and I have no idea if they are boomers or Gen-Z (unless they say so) and it doesn't really matter. Everyone has something important to say even if it isn't important to you. I have never seen a post here that refers to climate activists as "terrorists or stupid and selfish". I have taught my now adult grandchildren about climate change but I'm not one who is going to glue my hands to anything or chain myself to a tree... and speaking only for myself, I am neither judgmental nor narcissistic. Perhaps you should be a little less judgmental.

My opinion only

[AKwannabe]

128. This

☝️

[gay texan]

66. Im a gen x

Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2023, 08:11 PM - Edit history (2)

I was denied a certian aspect of my life becsuse of Reagan.
If i came out in my fucking northeast texas hell in the 1980's id be fucking dead at this point. Newer generations have ZERO idea the fear i went through. If i slipped up in my act, i was dead. I dated the "ugly chicks" to keep up apperances. I couldnt get an erection because i was gay. To the "ugly chicks" parents i was a catch. I had to fucking play games.

If i was found out, my corpse would have been floating in the Red River. It was a matter of survival...

All i wanted was a boyfriend. I have that now but i fucking wasted 30 years of my life

Let that sink in. 30 fucking years. There were two men in my life, one black, one asian. Both of them i could have spent the rest of my life with. I was entirely too scared to make the first move. Love at first sight...

Both of them perfect, denied because of republican bullshit


I want future generations to have it beter..

You are here because of the groundwork weve laid. Show some respect and continue the fight

[keopeli]

222. Bravo! From a fellow Gen X gay texan traveller. I confirm everything you said, only it was worse!

[Hekate]

255. Best line: "Show some respect & continue the fight."

[Hekate]

68. Okay, if you say so. When DU was founded, I recall a group of experienced resisters...

With the installation of BushCheney into the presidency by the SCOTUS, we were facing a national crisis. When 9-11 occurred, the crisis ratcheted up, as the PNAC crew took advantage of the opportunity to ram us into an oil war.

A lot of us were in what I think of as robust middle age at the time. There were some very young people here as well, and iirc they were welcomed and we shared what we knew about resisting fascism in these times. We brought a ton of experience to the table.

But you know what happens when you add a quarter-century to the young? They become middle aged, and have the concerns of the middle aged. And what happens when you add those same years to the middle aged? They become old and have the concerns of the old — like illness and death.

It doesn’t mean we have forgotten about the world and the country, about the environment and democracy. Where have you ever gotten that idea? We talk about these things all the time, and all of us are politically active to one degree or another to this very day, as we have been all our lives.

By all means bring in a coterie of high school and college age kids. We don’t bite, but we also don’t handle people with kid gloves in a serious debate. We have our TOS and don’t tolerate the trollery that goes on in a lot of places on the internet — I mean the misogyny and racism and anti-semitism that are so popular elsewhere will get called out.

If they want a special forum to talk about issues they think only they comprehend, I’m sure that can be accommodated under the usual DU rules.

As for calling young climate activists terrorists, I guess it depends on what they choose to do. Destroying priceless works of art to make a statement is as stupid when a white European or American kid does it as when Isis and the Taliban do it. Mm?

[Think. Again.]

79. Luckily...

....they don't consider random pieces of common protective glass to be priceless works of art (as you seem to).

[Hekate]

83. Yup. Isis and the Taliban agree with you, as they blow up 5,000 year old creations

Assholes that they are. Not you of course, you would never do such a thing.

[Think. Again.]

93. Smearing removable paint on common glass.

Say it with me...

They. Smeared. Removable. Paint. On. Common. Glass.

[Mossfern]

387. How effective is smearing removable paint

on protective glass helping the cause of the climate crisis?
IMHO those actions bring attention to the people doing the action more than the actual crisis itself.

BTW, I'm 75 years old and have been an avid environmental activist for several decades.
My political involvement started with the Eugene McCarthy campaign in 1968, before I was allowed to vote because the voting age was 21 at that time......hmmmm, another thing we do nothing "Boomers" rectified.

[Think. Again.]

391. As an activist...

...(and THANK YOU!) you understand how important it is to draw public attention to the cause you are concerned with.

Obviously, since we here in this small online community are STILL discussing their action months after it happened, these activists that pretended to damage a valuable painting were extremely successful in capturing the media's attention.

And yes, everyone who knows about their action also knows that they are climate and environmental activists specifically, so yes, they succeeded in the goal of bring widespread attention to their cause by smearing a piece of glass with removable paint.

Well done!

[mopinko]

130. will pitt was in his late 20's.

still worked part time as a bouncer.
i was already middle age, but there were a lot of young folks, including the lads that started this place.
silly op.

[Hekate]

217. Exactly! The DU Founders were quite young, and Will Pitt was a great asset here, ...

I remember we had a lot of younger folks. They are all middle aged themselves by now, and I trust are doing good work wherever they are.

[Rhiannon12866]

247. I remember posting celebratory threads from two regular DUers when they graduated from high school

Going on two decades ago.

[Hekate]

253. Our DU community has a lot to be proud of. I remember those young people...

Makes me wonder why some of last night’s posters want to hang around at all if they find us so lacking in worth. Or maybe they just drop in to chum the water a bit to see what bites. My bad for rising to the bait.

[Rhiannon12866]

254. And I shouldn't have

Kicked this thread. But I was quite friendly with both of those younger DUers. And they contributed as much as anyone here.

[Tree Lady]

343. I met Will in SF a bunch of us

from DU met up at a pub I think it was when we were working on the Kerry campaign. I was mid 40's as you said Will was younger. I think most who came were 30's and 40's.

[COL Mustard]

459. I was on here back then.

I didn’t fit in then, so I left and came back a couple of times, but over those 20+ years my thoughts and opinions have certainly changed.

I’m so glad to have been welcomed when I came back the last time, and I’m distressed to see what people I used to think were mainstream have become. It’s frightening, and we have to keep fighting the good fight.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I used to be a reliable Republican voter, until Sarah Palin came on the scene and my former party veered wildly to the right. I would never again vote for any Republican except for a few who’ve completely repudiated x45. And even then, it would be a hard vote for me. They’ve gone so far off the rails that I don’t agree with almost anything they say. (Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while.)

[Hekate]

460. I hope you are glad you came back, Col. Mustard

[COL Mustard]

461. Absolutely!!!

The people here are very embracing, unlike that other place I used to belong to.

Also, some significant changes in my life have made me more tolerant and accepting of people with different views than I was back then.

❤️💕

[paleotn]

69. Climate discussions are rare?

Is that joke? Terrorists? Got an example of that?

[MOMFUDSKI]

70. Now THAT was a great convo

around our DU kitchen table!

[AKwannabe]

136. Oh it ain't over yet

MOMFUDSKI

It ain’t over.

The OP is very divisive. I will even review the rules. It will continue to generate much more debate and convo. I am still thinking about my own response as I peruse the responses so far.

You said a mouthful. Made me Lol

[tavernier]

85. Dear Brenda

I recently had surgery and posted on DU to thank this family of friends for their support. That is something we do well, like family. We also support our causes with time and deeds and money. We are pro climate because we have grandkids, pro women and gay and people of color rights because we believe us all to be equal. We are also pro science because although most of us have an important spiritual side, we accept that the earth isn’t flat, people didn’t ride on dinosaurs, and vaccines are legitimate.

We are all “old boomers” to kids… they won’t read our Shakespearean blatherings, nor any from fox or cnn or msnbc. But they Will Smell The Shit (because there is So Much of it) and they will eventually go for the clover.

[AKwannabe]

138. This is my official thread winner!

Well said DU friend, well said!

Your kindness is an aura. I see it!

[tavernier]

148. You are very kind!

(Mom, is that you?)

[hlthe2b]

157. +++

[c-rational]

386. Well said. +++

[Collimator]

91. I agree, we ARE all in this together.

Everyone has a right to be heard and to know that their concerns have merit. Let's leave all this divisiveness behind and focus on what we all have in common. . . a bone-deep, instinctive, gut-level gag-reflex at the very sight of Ted Cruz.

[ShazzieB]

398. LOLOL!

Great punchline!

[KPN]

95. Hear hear!

Well said. Thank you for articulating that in such cordial but frank fashion.

[lastlib]

97. Let this be our guide:

&pp=ygUhdGVhY2ggeW91ciBjaGlsZHJlbiBjcm9zYnkgc3RpbGxz

[stuck in the middle]

244. Love it!

[vercetti2021]

101. I'm 33

But I enjoy the wisdom and insight from older Democrats that have been through alot of our nations history. It helped me become more grounded in politics than be super left wing like I was when I was younger.

[hlthe2b]

160. That is a very mature attitude vercetti. I choose to believe that OP & some posts are the anomaly

and that most DUers recognize the common goals across generations and backgrounds--as well as the history and experience that can be invaluable to share. Yesterday's activists (of which there are many) set at least an initial path for today.

[SouthernDem4ever]

104. Wow! Never saw this coming.

I don't remember anyone here dissing climate change activists - as a matter of fact I am relieved that younger people are taking up that issue and bringing attention to it. The older generation has definitely failed at fixing many climate issues, as much as many of us would have liked. Keeping the discussion front and center and making it louder than the morons at Fux Nooze and other places that just disregard and make excuses pr denials for what fossil fuels use has done to our planet is the only way to change things. Also voting against politicians that are beholden to that industry is the other way to affect change and I have been gratified to see it actually happening. We all need to keep the momentum going where possible. Change can seem too incremental and frustrating at times but we keep plugging away. Don't discount the small victories just because the big ones haven't happened yet.

[ancianita]

114. Cool. This boomer gives monthly to David Hogg's SuperPAC, donates to Maxwell Frost,

Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2023, 10:07 PM - Edit history (1)

has donated to Gen Z and Gen X candidates over the last couple of cycles; and at least three or four years ago, posted a lengthy three-part series on Climate.

From 2 days ago:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017864999

3 days ago:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017865511
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017864903

July:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218129389

June:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016354304

This site has an Archives List right below the front page videos. Click the years and month letters to check on how far back the climate posts go.

This site has a search box on the upper right of the front page. You can type "Climate" into it and then see all the recent posted threads I linked above.

If you haven't seen enough on climate from the above front page source sections, or if the front page shows other forums' interests that are too gender gappish for you -- then you've revealed that you need to lurk and learn some more.
So maybe you can set an example for not being judgmental and narcissistic.

Well duh, the gender gap on DU is real. Gender gaps have always existed in a big tent party like this one.

And yeah, we're all in this together -- probably more than you know.

[appalachiablue]

185. ++

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

302. How is there a gap anyway?

I mean, I read posts all the time from all age ranges. I'm an X-er, so sure there are a fewer number of us in demographics, but really, I don't see a gap as the OP says...

Just in the OP's little world - there's something to be said about being impassioned with little worldly knowledge versus being pragmatic with age.

[ancianita]

311. Right. Operating under the Democratic Party big tent, there's little to no gap in political goals.

[sky_masterson]

115. Get off my Lawn!

Why back in my day we had Dial up, and Netscape. You kids and your "Dying Planet" we are leaving you need to just Suck it up buttercup!!! ((Kidding of course)) (57 FYI)

[Snooper9]

290. Um, you were already 29 or 30 when you first got dial-up LOL

nt

[yaesu]

117. I've been trying to learn all I can about gen y and z

Their terminology and their feelings about politics in general. Overall, especially gen z, may be the most empathetic generation this country ever produced. I respect and admire them. This country will be in good hands if democracy isn't pulled out from under them.

[liberal N proud]

124. Old guy here and I welcome viewpoints from the younger generations

Hope they realize as well that there are unique issues that only older people are concerned about, but they should pay attention as it will effect them as well if they are lucky enough to become older.

We all need each other.

[housecat]

329. And we can all learn from each other. Age is not a category or topic

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

126. If you are over 25 and still living with your parents/grandparents, GET A HAIRCUT, GET A JOB!

Turn off the video games and move outta the basement, life is tough.

[AKwannabe]

142. ...

[Celerity]

191. de-rec nt

[solara]

287. Yikes! Shanti

I'm an old broad, but comments like this post give me the major squeems.

Was this meant to be sarcastic? "Get a haircut, get a job"?

Geez

[intheflow]

299. Wow, I hope you forgot the sarcasm smiley here.

[stuck in the middle]

304. Signs

If you are over 25 and still living with your parents/grandparents, GET A HAIRCUT, GET A JOB!
Turn off the video games and move outta the basement, life is tough.

[Voltaire2]

364. Wow.

‘Get a haircut get a job’ was precisely what was yelled at boomers when they were young and rebellious. I suppose you might have been consciously ironic?

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

390. LOL What we got here is old people lamenting the youngin generation, old as time, lol

[Xavier Breath]

132. K & R.

[brush]

133. Just as the Dem party is a big tent, so is DU. Ignore...

Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2023, 09:27 PM - Edit history (2)

the naysayers. Continue posting on environometal/climate issues, student loan forgiveness and other issues that zoomers and younger millennials are concerned with. We all need to hear them.

Just don't insult others by being ageist.

[William769]

134. I wish I could un recommend this. nt

[c-rational]

135. Agreed, and the younger generation has the most to loose and the most misery to suffer

because of our climate mismanagement. It also dawned on me recently that the climate crisis is not due to a technical issue that cannot be solved, nor for economic reasons. It is not being solved due to a lack of political will. Younger generation, vote like you are members of AARP. If we win and win big, we can accomplish anything. Stop focusing on problems, focus on what you want, and VOTE.

[inthewind21]

374. Exactly!

[LudwigPastorius]

140. "...young climate change activists are referred to as terrorists or stupid and selfish here."

Some examples of this would be nice, because I must have missed those threads.

[ecstatic]

141. be the change you want to see. If you want climate OPs, post climate OPs

I'm not a boomer. I'm borderline GenX/Millenial but I come here to vent, react to live events and celebrate wins. I've learned a lot along the way though.

I will say that your tone was a little harsh, so maybe work on that. You can't lump everyone together like that.

[AKwannabe]

174. Agree!

Heartily!



Be the change you want to see

I said it differently in my response. Wish I would have thought of this. Poster says her age in one reply and I believe poster should know this saying based on that. With only 857 posts I am wondering how many were about climate action on any scale.

[Silent3]

146. There's a fair amount of climate change discussion here

I think the only reason there isn't more is that, at a certain point, it would become too much preaching to the choir. We only need to discuss news events related to climate change, and the merits of various approaches to solving the problem. We don't need to spend a lot of effort convincing people how important the issue is.

It's also a false dilemma to speak as if discussion of the Senate dress code, or any other matter, is displacing other important subjects. There is plenty of bandwidth here for many topics.

Finally, I don't think making young people feel welcome here requires complete tolerance of anything that anyone who is a self-proclaimed climate activist might do in the name of advancing their cause.

[Locrian]

147. one of the best and most needed post ever -nt

[AKwannabe]

178. Can't agree

I think it SUCKS.

See post 171 for further explanation

[H2O Man]

154. Recommended.

I agree. And I'm by far the oldest person on DU, I suspect. I do post about the environment, but pretty much everyone ignores any and everything I say. But that's not important.

What is important is exactly what you note -- the divides even within a relatively mono-Democratic community. It reflects the on-going divides in our society.

[H2O Man]

167. After reading the numerous responses,

I think the OP is of real value.

[JoseBalow]

184. Are you talking to yourself again, grandpa?

I kid!

[H2O Man]

192. Yes.

In general, I'm the only one who ever reads what I post on DU. More, I'm the only one who responds to my posts, but generally only when I am in the mood to argue. (grin)

I do see several opportunities for meaningful discussions here on the thread -- though not on my comments! -- but no one has taken advantage of those opportunities. Although they might offer common ground, they are either overlooked or ignored. And that is a shame, a terrible shame that reflects the biggest danger to Democratic Party victories in 2024.

[JoseBalow]

351. I catch myself

talking to myself sometimes (I don't count talking to the TV or bad drivers, though maybe I should).

I'm OK with it, but my family might start to worry if my mumblings become full-blown arguments!

Usually when I'm interested enough to read a comment thread, I will read everyone's posts in it, to take in different perspectives and see where the discussion leads. I don't always add a comment - I just recently started posting, after a long period of just lurking - but if you've commented, I've probably read it.

So thank you for your views, they are seen and appreciated, even if they might not always be acknowledged.

[H2O Man]

357. My father used

to say that I could start a heated argument in an empty room. I told him he was wrong, of course.

If time permits, I plan to writesomething that I had hoped others would point out -- if not focus upon -- in the above discussion. A lot depends upon how tired I am after watching my grandson this afternoon! Amazing how much energy as one year old has!

[OneGrassRoot]

283. +1 n/t

[Voltaire2]

365. Some of us cherish your posts

[hay rick]

164. Unrec...

Shit-stirring is another long-standing tradition on DU. OP claims boomers are hostile to climate change activism and Gens Y and Z are snowflakes who can't scroll past posts that they find uninteresting.

Silent Generation gets up from nap to sputter bullshit. Thanks for your concern.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

305. Agreed... "the gap" assumes there are no X'ers here either

[Autumn]

166. If old people see climate activists as "terrorists or stupid and selfish", you young people are

doing something right. This old lady says it's your world now. Take control and do whatever you have to do.

[jcgoldie]

168. I'm with you Autumn

If gluing yourself to the stadium makes people even mention climate change on the 6 oclock news then we all need to take our turn.

[hlthe2b]

187. This is a community for Democrats--not for the "two parties."

Important to keep in mind...

[OAITW r.2.0]

176. Reality is real!

We were here first!

[mahina]

177. I'm thankful we have young people here considering we started 20 + years ago

Without young people there's no future, with them there is every possibility. I do what I do for their futures, not mine.

Those of us who are around then (I lurked from Jan 21 2001) are 2 decades + years older than we were then. Anyway, how else can we be divided against each other?

Gay versus straight versus bi
Men versus women versus nonbinary
Regionally, north versus south
East versus west
Moderate versus progressive
Bondes versus redheads versus brown versus black versus gray hair
Urban versus rural versus suburban
Vegan versus omnivores
Cat people versus dog people


This is fun… not

[sheshe2]

197. +1

[Celerity]

246. There are hardly any regular posters here under 30, and even moving the range up to 40

yields a small, small number, in terms of the ratios.

I am 26, soon 27, and I can't recall someone younger than me being a regular poster. I am a Millennial (actually I self identify as a Zillennial, we are a micro gen born 1992/3 to 1998), barely, as I missed being Gen Z by less than 2 and a half months. I know of no Gen Z regular posters here. Surely there must be some, but they remain unknown to me. There are posters here I have seen and mer here who are younger than me, but none are regular contributers that I know of.

I have tried for years to get my social set, my age cohort (18-34) to come here. Dozens and dozens, from all over the globe, including many US dwelling (and non US dwelling) Americans I met whilst reading for my MBA in Los Angeles, or met in London, or now, Stockholm. I have talked about this for years. Almost to a person they all have said thanks but no thanks at the end of the day, and usually have referred to the constant (and make no mistake, it is unfortunately constant to a degree, there are (and were) posts on this thread to show this) youth bashing and constant diminution of the issues impacting us from certain quarters. Go peruse some of the student loan debt threads, for instance, to see that.

I am very close to leaving DU myself (I really am, it has been building for some time) but it is not at all solely because of the age gap, although I do admit that it does play a small part, just not remotely the main one, and certainly it is not at all universal. I am, and always have been, open to learning from people much older than myself. I have met many wonderful older people here, and throughout my life.

Sorry for the fairly negative post, but it most definitely is my perceived reality.

Cheers

Cel

[betsuni]

249. So what? Why would anyone freak out about an online group?

Why does DU trigger people? "Youth bashing" LOL LOL LOL. Just find an online group you like. Why obsess about DU? Democratic Underground doesn't mean bashing Democrats, doesn't mean the Democratic Party should be replaced by populists who hate Teh Establishment.

[Celerity]

251. I'm hardly obessing over it, and I don't need you to tell me what what online groups I should choose

[Celerity]

261. Because I feel as though I have something to offer and because I learn many things here.

Why are you worried about why I am still here after 5 plus years?

What's up with the gatekeeping attempts?

[Tree Lady]

345. I hope you stay but would understand

feeling lonely here without more young. I started here mid 40's and now mid 60's. It has changed but like you said in the beginning I have learned so much from older folks when I found my way here.

I wish DU felt more comfortable to the young as we need new activists in the fight.

[OneGrassRoot]

352. Agree, and we learn so much from them too. n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

349. This short interaction reveals a lot, imo.

I hear what you are saying Celerity. As I noted in another comment, DU can be perceived by new people of any age as rather cliquish. Hell, I've been here for ages and I think it's cliquish...lol.

One difference that MAY be generational (I don't know, perhaps you can enlighten me...aging Gen-Xer here) is that many long-time DUers view this as a community first and foremost, which is why you often see posts that are more personal in nature. They see it as a community as much as, if not more than, it being a discussion forum, which I think understandably could explain the sometimes protective and defensive vibes new members pick up on. I didn't take offense at this OP whatsoever but obviously many others did, and this thread mirrors similar ones over time. People also get testier and more impatient around election years because trolls have historically invaded then, with an agenda to disrupt.

Do you think younger people long for that sense of online community, or is the preference simply a space where one can share and learn and have thoughtful, serious political and current event discussions? Maybe you are able to find online community on other platforms? DU and many DUers have been here a long time, so those histories can come with baggage and assumptions which can derail sincere conversations with newer members.

Personally, at this point in time I long for more of a focus on serious discussion and what I judge to be serious news about serious issues.

Depending on the topic, you can pretty much rely on certain people chiming in in opposition to the OP. If it gains traction, the opposition makes the thread explode but takes away from the intent of the OP.

Meh, it's all quite frustrating, everywhere...lol. I'm going to check out more political subreddits and peruse those to see how it compares as far as that more focused discussion. If DU groups got more eyeballs, that would work well, but nearly everything gets posted in GD which means it's not only hard to gain traction but it's hard to find posts that are of interest to me (and the body of the post is in keeping with the subject line...lol).

These are simply my personal observations in case they might elucidate the "vibe" here.

[debm55]

425. I will miss you Celerity. But you have to do what is right for you.

[Celerity]

429. I have not, as of this moment in time, made my decision to leave.

I just am, I do admit, feeling more than a wee bit ground down. Perhaps I just take a bit of break, like I did years ago.

[debm55]

431. Thank you. I am glad to hear that.

[AllyCat]

269. I hope you don't leave! I love your posts.

I’m sorry you are made to feel unwelcome here.

The student loan issue made me mad as well. I’m in my 50s and STILL paying. Had to block many a DUer for saying we didn’t deserve relief.

Our youth are our future and we would not be on the upswing politically without them!

[Celerity]

281. An American classmate of mine's (at one of my unis in the UK) father just had 128K usd in student

loan debt completely wiped clean via one of Biden's new programmes. The majority of his balance (from undergrad and postgrad uni) was due to interest (which is just outrageous IMHO, but that was wiped as well). He is also in his fifties.

He was in an income driven repayment plan for years, and in complete forbearance for the last 15 or so years due to a series of serious health issues.

https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/repayment/plans

[AllyCat]

286. Beautiful! Great news for him!!

[mahina]

297. We're fighting for student loan forgiveness

It only makes sense for the whole of society if student debt isn’t crushing people, but you do you!

I have been fighting to stop fossil fuel use, radically reduce my own and my community’s consumption, and convert to renewables since my 2nd year in college. It is existential.

I scroll past stuff that doesnt interest me.

As far as I’m aware, there is no search function available on mobile and I don’t have a PC so how about you send me a couple of links that you are referring to and I’ll read them. I don’t know how you discern anyone’s age if you don’t ask each individual how old they are and I don’t imagine most people would share that information.

Aside from student loan debt what issues are important to you?

[Celerity]

313. There has been more than a little pushback to it from certain quarters here on DU, pushback

which has at times unfortunately devolved into some pretty problematic anti younger folk framing and posturing. Student loans are hardly the only subject that has brought forth similar stances.

There are many many good older people here who aid in trying to tamp that down, but in terms of actual younger (let's say 35 or even 40yo and under) people, we just are not present on the board to any remotely significant degree.

Wed Feb 26, 2020 (I am not even in the under 25yo group now, as this poll was 3 and half years ago)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213017831

[Celerity]

322. You expanded your reply to me via 2 further edits as I typed. I only replied to the first short one

you asked

Aside from student loan debt what issues are important to you?

Here is a large record of my OPs

https://www.democraticunderground.com/~Celerity

[mahina]

344. I don't see much there about the climate or student debt.

Or anything really.

Yes I did expand on my post. I had some more to say.

Cheers, bye now.

[Celerity]

396. over 5,000 OPs of mine and you claim

I don't see much there about the climate or student debt.

Or anything really.

Journal Archives

https://www.democraticunderground.com/~Celerity

2023 (963)

September (108)
August (127)
July (124)
June (126)
May (90)
April (111)
March (116)
February (99)
January (72)

2022 (1655)

December (148)
November (133)
October (104)
September (104)
August (119)
July (186)
June (104)
May (145)
April (166)
March (169)
February (154)
January (155)

2021 (1055)

December (134)
November (159)
October (141)
September (75)
August (79)
July (56)
May (77)
April (83)
March (91)
February (94)
January (100)

2020 (955)

December (5)
November (78)
October (105)
September (69)
August (81)
July (74)
June (84)
May (130)
April (130)
March (154)
February (62)

2019 (448)

December (9)
November (32)
October (84)
September (42)
August (36)
July (52)
June (58)
May (53)
April (59)
March (21)
February (5)
January (2)

2018 (17)

December (4)
November (11)
October (1)
July (1)


random samples of thousands

[jcgoldie]

321. I hope you won't leave, Celerity

I enjoy reading your consistently progressive ideas here.

[pnwmom]

340. Thank you for your posts here, Celerity. Student loan debt is a very important issue,

I agree. And so is the ability of young people to be able to get into the housing market and eventually, if they want, be able to buy a house. The economics for young people today are so much worse than they were for their parents.

I'm wondering if part of the reason more young people don't post here is because they post mostly with their phones? Is this site accessible to typing on a phone, as opposed to a laptop or pad? Or is that not an issue. If you have any suggestions for changes on DU4 that would be helpful, I hope you pass that along.

Thank you so much for being a voice here and I hope you will stay!

[waterwatcher123]

179. Brenda, I think the salient point is to not stereotype to the degree possible.

I do not post often as my attention seems to spread thin on the incredible array of good articles posted here (appreciate the articles). However, I did notice that someone posted a comment in a response referring to "lonely boomers" who respond to political polls. Whether it was intended or not, the comment seemed like a mean way to refer to a remarkably diverse group of people. All of us have to be practice being a bit more understanding of how words impact everyone and appreciate the diversity that exists in every age group.

There are plenty of environmentally aware and active people here and elsewhere. When I started working for a state environmental agency, there were older local leaders who were just giants in the field. One man, who lost a leg to diabetes, could absolutely take apart a whole room of cheerleaders for some crazy development project (and there were plenty). His sister was the author of the Clean Indoor Air Act in Minnesota and his family also donated a huge chunk of land to the public on Lake Superior. This man and his friends were also involved behind the scenes to protect the Boundary Waters and to create Voyagers National Park (it took a village). There has been no one since he passed who has demonstrated anywhere near the gravitas and skill of this one man and his band of compatriots. He was successful because he was a ravenous reader, wrote constantly, and commented through official channels (legal processes), showed up at meetings, spoke truth to power, and was relentless.

I have been interested and involved in climate change ever since we were required to draft a paper on global warming for an environmental policy class in graduate school in the late 1980s. It was astounding what existed in the literature in the 1980s about CO2 levels and trends. Unfortunately, the leaders who raised concerns about climate change were mocked and dismissed as quacks. Even when climate change became widely acknowledged by the scientific community, no one really wanted to address lifestyle since it required a wholesale recognition that our consumption habitats were leading to environmental ruin. Unfortunately, Americans are extremely poor when it comes to the prevention of problems. We could have adapted the Precautionary Approach to environmental policy like the Europeans (prove it is safe and sustainable before acting). However, there are few examples of laws and programs in the United States that are anything other than a reaction to a problem. Climate change is following the same pattern, although with far more significant implications.

As you well know, any action to address climate requires a host of actions. The most significant one is what lands on your plate every day. Reducing the consumption of animal products is the single most important action anyone can take. There are a myriad of other actions that can be taken that squarely rest on reducing or changing our overall consumption patterns (fossil fuels, plastics, land, etc.). It is also important to speak up in every legal process available (where permits or projects are proposed, financed, etc.), to demand that projects recognize climate change impacts and do their part to reduce or reverse impacts. A blog post or comment is not the equivalent of a legal comment. So, priority must be given to legal processes.

My suggestion is to keep talking about climate change and the moral imperative we all share to address it. It is unconscionable from my point of view to accept anything less. We are not the only living things on this planet that matter. It is hard to fathom how anyone can accept the idea that Polar bears are going to be a footnote in history, or that thousands of animals, birds, and insects will disappear forever.

[appalachiablue]

182. My OP of Sept. 20, Biden Unveiling The American Climate Corps. There was no news

coverage of this other than NPR that I noticed, and I scan throughout the day. This surprised me but I knew it reflects a lot of US media influence from the powerful fossil fuel industry, corporations and the right.

The new Climate Corps was a major step forward although smaller in size than many had hoped, and I rushed to post the story. People here are very aware of the crisis we are in, I don't know how anyone could think otherwise esp. given the large number of articles posted regularly in the Environment & Energy section as well as other groups.

(Proud to say I've seen Jimmy Carter 3 times, the first when he debated Ford in 1976).

Regarding the 'geezer posts' about health matters, surgery, etc., attacks on John Fetterman's attire and other topics that seem trivial, I'd say lighten up some. It doesn't mean members are ignoring or minimizing the state of emergency facing life on the planet esp. for younger generations.

The young are already coping with hardships brought on by 40 years of Reaganomics, and I'm profoundly concerned for their welfare and the future. We must continue to fight for awareness and action and stay united. Democrats take the massive issue of the climate crisis very seriously.
-----------
- Biden Is Unveiling The American Climate Corps, A Program With Echoes of The New Deal: NPR. Wed., Sep 20, 2023, 10:09 PM, https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016363966

[H2O Man]

193. Thank you!

[treestar]

199. everyone's votes are needed

when I was young, I did not make my vote hostage to anything. I knew it was my vote.

I did not demand to be heard more than any other voter. None of us did.

We were not inherently more valuable than older voters.

Yet the older boomers had an effect. Because they protested. They never suggested they'd withhold their votes and let the conservatives win. They knew what their own interests were.

[betsuni]

221. +1

[Maru Kitteh]

201. We are weighted pretty heavily to an older demo, but I value immensely younger contributors.

I'm not really in the middle of the Demo for the party, but I think I'm pretty much in the middle of our demo as a gen Xer.


I think it's really good for all of us to be amongst each other. We need each other, and I don't just mean that in the bullshit, team-building, touchy-feely way - I mean we freaking need each other. None of us can afford to ignore each other. Our collective survival depends on it.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

205. And you know that climate change is the #1 issue

For all young people...how?

I have a Millennial sprog married to another Millennial. I'll be happy to tell you their political priorities:

1. LGBT+ issues. Bisexual married to bisexual. Yeah, I can see them caring a great deal about anything related to that.
2. Women's rights. DIL received a STEM PhD in 2017. Let's say that getting it and then working in her field as a woman have been...eye-opening experiences, for both of them.
3. Religious freedom issues for non-christians.
4. Healthcare reform. My son's best friend is dying because he needs a new kidney to replace the transplant he got at 18--but a match is proving beyond difficult to find. Did I mention that this friend has had to live impoverished ever since the first surgery, to continue getting the medical care he needs? Gee, maybe that would make you a bit concerned about health care in this country, too.
5. Student loans. You did see that PhD up there, right? Think it came for free?
6. Other economic issues. Like how to save for the future when out-of-control rent, insurance, car payments and so on eat up so much of what they earn, despite the considerable earning oomph that PhD provides.

These are the things that the sprog and his circle talk about, although the priorities can change by individual. Still, that list was pretty much standard for them, and also for most of my college classmates who were even younger. The younger kids talked most often about student loans and outrageous housing costs in our area. Nothing else came close.

Climate change isn't something any of them have talked about very much. They mention it enough that I'd put it in the Top 10 of political concerns, but few of them have it exceeding the list above.

I don't know all of the young people out there...but those people I mention are all young people. And you did presume to speak for them. I know from hard experience that young people have quite a dim view of old people doing that. You might even say it's something they despise.

By the way, disliking politicians fussing over work attire rather than more important issues isn't limited to young people. We old people don't like it, either, but you act like wanting to talk about the attire is something universal for us.

Thanks for the mindless ageism.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

310. Well said

[Polybius]

212. I'm in the middle, a Gen Xer that isn't thrilled with both generations (before and after) mine

[Tree Lady]

220. Lol the daughter I get along with the best

is a Gen X. But she is also the only republican in the family. She makes a lot of money and is convinced that voting R will help her save taxes.

We don't talk politics because we started to have problems when we did a few years ago.

She is the kid who likes to hike with me and do yoga. And follows some of the same people I do in being mindful.

I did try to tell her that she is lucky she lives in CA because she could have died in a red state now when she had a tubal pregnancy about ten years ago and got a d/c because of it. Saved her life.

But people vote where they are at the moment and now she is paying very high taxes because of not owning a home. So no write offs with good income.

[betsuni]

225. "Believe me, those attitudes will not gain you one single vote from young people."

What's THAT supposed to mean? If young people would rather have Republicans in charge, their choice.

At least the OP didn't call DUers "shut-ins" who sometimes manage to make it down to the bingo hall, post photos of sour-faced church ladies to try to make DU women members mad. So there's that.

[sheshe2]

236. Ha

[MorbidButterflyTat]

392. "Then we'll hold our breath

til we turn blue! So there!"

[JI7]

226. The generation thing is bs anyways because old non whites vote democratic more than young whites

[betsuni]

235. +1

[Sky Jewels]

227. I'm a somewhat older person (late 50s) BUT

I side with the younger people on most issues. My sympathies and my love are with Gen Z. Maybe because I have Gen Z kids and know the shitty hand young people have been dealt. Also, my age cohort sucks (yes, in general, many exceptions, blah blah). My classmates were The Reagan Youth. Think Alex P. Keaton. Yech.

[Skittles]

238. I see plenty of references to climate change here

not sure what you are talking about

we talk about ALL KINDS OF THINGS here

[gab13by13]

239. Old Fogie Thom Hartmann just wrote an article

with a concrete suggestion to deal with climate change, stop giving the fossil fuel industry 600 billion dollars a year,

Young and old can agree to that.

[pnwmom]

240. So? The Boomers on DU are in an age group that predominantly votes Republican AND YET

we are your allies. Your strong allies. It hasn't been easy for us to watch this country sliding into autocracy, and we're doing our best to stop that.

We agree with you about climate change, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, equal employment opportunity, student debt issues and so much more. And most of all we are united in the need to stop Trump from ever regaining power. We all know that your generation and the next ones will be the ones to suffer most if we don't succeed.

But many of us have been together here for decades, and we care about each other. So if we have some discussions you're not interested in, then just skip over them.

[qwlauren35]

241. Brenda, I hear you.

You're new to DU, and I sense that you are frustrated with what you see here.

Please realize that this is a community that has existed for over 20 years, starting when Bush beat Gore. A lot of people here have developed strong, meaningful friendships. So, you're going to see that. A lot of people have been politically active for decades, and have concerns other than Climate Change. So you're going to see that. Sometimes people just want to vent, and feel that this is a safe space.

It all comes from being a community.

I ABSOLUTELY believe that DU has a strong Baby Boomer community, and this can turn off younger generations. It would be impossible for all of DU to pivot and focus on the issues of today's young people when some of those issues are so distant from our reality. The issues of today's young people do not simply erase all of the other issues that Democrats care about.

Maybe we need Gen X and Gen Z and Millennial forums which are safe spaces for people facing the problems of their generation, at the same time that the issues are discussed in the "General Discussion" forum.

And maybe DU needs to advertise!

[hlthe2b]

264. I get what you are attempting but suggesting the older here are not concerned with climate change

and environment or that the Boomers have not been involved in these issues for decades is so ludicrous that I don't know where to start. While I detest Richard Nixon, it was during his term-- the 1970s-- that activists managed to successfully lobby for the creation of the EPA. Ever heard of acid rain? The fact that environmental interventions have been implemented such that that is no longer the biggest environmental threat we face speaks to the decades of activism--as does the regulation of nuclear power plants, air and water pollution, and yes the efforts we are trying to preserve and extend around CO2 emissions and reverse global warming.

To suggest that even the oldest generations on DU or elsewhere have not been active in environment and climate change, but rather this is a "new issue" that only the youngest among us herald or fight for is so ludicrous that I can only assume there is a low level of understanding and education on the issue, or some here are intentionally trying to divide us. As the 2024 election approaches, there will be more reason to be cautious about the latter. TRUTH.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

393. "Silent Spring"

by Rachel Carson. Very important work and very influential.

[hlthe2b]

408. Absolutely!

[MrsCoffee]

245. Unrec.

Hardly an all in this together post ffs.

[Trueblue Texan]

259. Is anyone here running for office?

If they are, Brenda is correct that climate change is an issue we should discuss more, and one especially important to the youth vote.

Brenda, have you started any discussions about climate? Sounds like it would be welcome by the youth as well as "old boomers" like me on this site. Many of us have children and grandchildren we are concerned about that will have to survive on this planet long after we are gone.

Given that this site is diverse, I think all kinds of discussions are appropriate, particularly ones already being discussed in the media because those discussions are already causing bias in the general population. We need to discuss those here, whether young people find them interesting or not.

There are a lot of subjects that are pertinent to one population or the other, but we are all connected in some way or the other: some of us are raising the children of our children; some of us may be caregiving a grandparent or parent. All the issues affect all of us in some way.

If you feel there are not enough posts about a given subject, I hope you will post about it.

[Takket]

260. This is DU. it's a political forum

There are hundreds of threads here every day. On hundreds of topics. If you are upset about what is or is not discussed here then maybe you should try a different forum specific to the cause you want to discuss.

But there is no one single issue big enough to dominate DU. nor should there be. As the saying goes we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[LuckyCharms]

262. I don't like this post.

There's something coming through in your choice of words that is grating.

You mention that people need to stop being judgmental and narcissistic, yet...

[OneGrassRoot]

265. I hear you and have had similar observations...

I'm an older Gen-X'er, btw.

Several thoughts:

1. As someone who has been here a LONG time, things have certainly changed on this message board over the years, which is to be expected. I think many long-time DUers may have gotten a bit lax in where they post things. To me, there are many posts that should be in the Lounge, not GD. GD definitely moves quickly, and the more posts, the harder it is to gain traction. (For those seeking help, that's different, though I've long advocated for a separate group specifically for this purpose.)

2. Speaking of groups, it's unfortunate that groups aren't utilized more. It's a Catch-22: people who are passionate about certain issues want that dedicated space but getting eyeballs there, versus the collective eyeballs on GD, is really hard. That's been a longstanding challenge.

3. There have always been and I suspect always will be people who harp on certain issues, for or against. There are some topics which inevitably get a lot of immediate pushback and it can feel really harsh, especially if someone is fairly new here and don't understand the longstanding member dynamics. In that respect I really feel for the younger people, or simply newer people, trying to establish themselves here. It can feel very clique-ish. This thread is indicative of this...lol. That said, there is always the expected influx of trolls around election years, so that doesn't help.

Meh, no solutions, merely observations.

[hlthe2b]

266. Brenda, while you have seemingly left your own thread rather than respond to the many comments...

and while I've had some difficulty ignoring your ugly comments suggesting the oldest here are merely senile or solely worried about their own personal issues while you simultaneously proclaim that "people need to stop being so judgmental and narcissistic" and that "we are all in this together," I'm actually going to respond on this post in keeping with the latter sentiment. (I likewise will apologize for that very long run-on sentence).

But to the assumptions/accusations that this board is overwhelmingly not concerned with climate change or the environment, or are just "keyboard warriors in pajamas" or any of the other implied (or specific claims in the thread), let me just say this. You seem singularly unaware of the history of environmental activism and the efforts of boomers (and others) to address it over the past 50 years, including the creation of EPA under intense lobbying of (believe it or not) the Nixon administration. Thus to suggest the older here are not concerned with the environment and climate change--have never been activists on the issue is so ludicrous that I don't know where to start. Ever heard of acid rain? The fact that environmental interventions have been implemented such that that is no longer the biggest environmental threat we face speaks to the decades of activism--as does the regulation of nuclear power plants, air and water pollution, and yes the efforts we are trying to preserve and extend around CO2 emissions and reverse global warming. Past activism has laid the groundwork that the youngest among us will have to adopt/change/reprioritize to go into the future. That is your calling. But, you have not been left with nothing--no place to start.

As to what you perceive on DU, every one of us has long-term priority concerns. But we also have emergent concerns--whether it be health or job or family or other that sometimes take priority over a given day's global issues. That does not mean we care any less with respect to the latter. The abysmal comment made in the OP that suggested the presence of comments posted in the many many small focused subgroups about physical health, mental health, cooking, DIY home repair, pets, or anything else validates an opinion that DU is full of old people who don't care about climate change OR education or the most important issues facing the youngest among us, is just wrong. Those subforums were created to serve the interests and needs of a very wide population of posters here as well as to create areas where issues like the environment, global warming, CO2 emissions, new technology to avoid further ocean pollution, etc., etc can be discussed in detail, if only among a singularly committed audience. By contrast, GD is the main forum where the ongoing, critical issues with major updates are posted-- (albeit there is competition for continued attention given all the other ongoing critical issues, like gun control, abortion, civil rights, voting rights, and the concerted efforts on the RW to dismantle democracy in favor of autocracy, fascism, or theocracy).

But to suggest that even the oldest generations on DU or elsewhere have not been active in environment and climate change, but rather this is a "new issue" that only the youngest among us herald or fight for is so demonstrably wrong that I can only assume there is a low level of understanding and education on the issue, or some here are intentionally trying to divide us. The fact is that while you may resent the suspicions some have raised, as the 2024 election approaches, there will be more reason for many on DU to be cautious about the latter. DU has been the recipient of such divisive campaigns in the past--even a post-election cyber attack that took down the entire website. TRUTH. Many of us were here then and we remember.

So, perhaps you will return to this thread, read the comments, and reflect. The one thing I do agree with you on is that "we are all in this together." Indeed we are.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

314. I wish this could be it's own post

[AntivaxHunters]

271. I very much agree with you A LOT

There's definitely a generation gap on here big time.

I post anything about trans people & it gets only a couple likes. It truly amazes me given what's happening all across across the country with trans people. That's a HUGE issue among young voters. Gigantic! I post the same thing on Twitter or BlueSky & it gets a ton of likes & shares. There's a disconnect happening there.

I shared some of my artwork that I worked very hard on, spent countless hours creating. It was Halloween themed as Halloween is coming & featured our lawmakers in DC, both Democrats & Republicans. And what happens? It gets hidden because someone was offended by it. Think about that for a moment. My artwork was literally censored. Artwork. Halloween artwork. Never in my life would I have thought on a forum for Democrats would my artwork be censored. "That's too violent!" Have you never heard of the Walking Fucking Dead?

Young people today are very much to the left of a lot of people on here. They see Capitalism as the root of every problem today & prefer Socialism over it. They don't want $20,000 of student loan debt erased. No, they demand it ALL be erased. They're concerned about their LGBTQIA friends. They want climate change combatted & that includes banning things like fracking entirely. They want single payer healthcare with Medicare For All. They want $22/hr living wages. And they want the police abolished.

If you want to really see young voters in action, go to Reddit because there is where they all are along with Twitter. Check out forums like -

r/climate
r/environment
r/Socialism
r/healthcare
r/student loans

Things over the next decade are going to change drastically for the better. Young voters are now the largest voting bloc & they're very left, politically engaged, politically involved, & they are royally pissed with all the conservative bullshit. The future of our party is damn bright!

[AntivaxHunters]

273. Did you read everything I said?

Our future as a political party is frickin' awesome!
Young people are going to make everything better. And I can't wait! 😀

[tritsofme]

275. It sounds like the lack of interest in your posts and inability to abide by TOS is a you problem

Not a DU problem. Maybe they are just not as compelling as you imagine?

[AntivaxHunters]

293. You just proved my point

Discussions about trans people being legislated out of existence aren't "interesting"?

Thank you very much for proving my point how there's a generation gap.

[tritsofme]

303. I didn't see the posts you reference, so there was no opportunity for me to ignore them.

I have however seen plenty of robust discussions here on the topics you mention.

The fact that your particular posts did not generate much interest would seem to be evidence of little more than a lack of compelling content coming from you.

[OneGrassRoot]

282. I like Reddit...

I like how the subreddits with a specific focus get a lot of interaction. If the groups here could gain more traction some of these complaints could be lessened.

[AntivaxHunters]

294. That would be a great start

Along with loosening some of the restrictions like how you can't criticize without being alerted on

[intheflow]

276. OMG, the Boomers on this thread who are offended!

This OP bashes no one and sums up the age gap well, imo. Cue the fogies: “What?! Young people don’t want to hear about my gall bladder surgery on a political discussion board? Those young pups are so rude!”

My dudes: way to prove the OP’s point!

[MusicLikeDirt]

280. Amen.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

397. "Cue the fogies"?

Who's offended?

Who's forcing young people or anyone else to waste their precious time on DU, when twitter and reddit are where the dudes are?

So............reading reddit is more productive and serves young people better than reading DU.

Cue the spoiled brats.

[highplainsdem]

278. Brenda, you're complaining that "climate discussions are rare" - but you've been on DU

since 2006 and haven't started very many threads about climate.

In fact, when I checked the Environment group, your latest OP had you NOT posting about the climate, but complaining about others posting news stories there, which seemed odd.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127168732

I would like to post parts of a very serious interview

with a climatologist whom I know personally.

But I know it will get lost due to a lot of Reuters posts.

You posted that last Friday.

You didn't post excerpts from the interview.

And you might've discouraged anyone who read your OP from posting news on the environment there. Which could hardly have been more counterproductive in that group.

And then you posted here to complain there aren't enough discussions of the environment, and to blame it on a generation gap, starting a very divisive thread.

?????????

[dalton99a]

292. +1. And there has been a crap ton of climate-related threads in this forum

[SunSeeker]

334. And most, if not all, sink like a rock. nt

[Recycle_Guru]

309. very good catch

[tritsofme]

320. Yikes, makes this OP even more ridiculous, something I didn't think possible.

[debm55]

346. Yes, where is Brenda?

[highplainsdem]

379. Her most recent post was 10 minutes after my post here, and apparently a

response to it...but she posted it as a reply to the thread in the Environment group that I linked to and quoted.

Here's that distant response:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127168732#post4

4. Replying to my own post because I cannot edit it for some reason.

I reread the interview with Dr. Thompson I would like to post and it says I am not allowed to reprint it without their permission. I'm going to try to get permission.

I just noticed that in the last few weeks there have been so many quick hit posts from MSM that it almost felt like this Group was being spammed.

I did not intend for there to be less posting here.

[debm55]

427. So everyone is against the environment. Even the Environment group?

[Kingofalldems]

384. Boom!

[hamsterjill]

296. I'll soon be 65.

Does this count? This was my thread on the climate crisis.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218256498

There are exceptions to every rule when you try to lump imperfect humans into neat categories. Yes there are generational differences and yes we all certainly need to work together.

[Ziggysmom]

308. Me, too! 65 next August. As an IT Analyst, I work with tons of young folks, recent college

grads. I think I don't experience ageism at work because they desperately need my knowledge.
Plus, I mostly work from home, so most people I deal with have no idea how old I am.

My mind feels like I'm still 25..... then I look in the mirror and wonder who that stranger is staring back at me LOL. GENERALLY the older DU crowd is pretty up to date on all current events and trends. I totally agree with your post on the climate crisis. We need to start calling it that - a CRISIS - and not climate change.

[hamsterjill]

324. Oh I hear you on that mirror.

I notice my age only when I see my reflection, and occasionally when I’m trying to do something that’s really physical like lifting something heavy. I don’t quite have the strength that I once did…but I’m trying to work on keeping what I have.

I think it’s mostly attitude. Like you I work remotely for the most part and that keeps me up on a lot of the technical stuff. I’m no expert but I can do what I need to do usually.

The climate crisis is in my opinion the greatest challenge facing mankind, and we are losing the battle. It makes me fearful for what’s to come and it makes me sad that my species is so eager to destroy things. I am hopeful that some young minds can find solutions. I’m waiting…

Have a great Monday!!!

[dalton99a]

306. Ok. Auto-trash "surgery" and "Medicare" and skip the "How Do I Turn On the Computer" threads

Seriously there are not many of those

[mercuryblues]

315. It seems to me like you are the one

Trying to be divisive, blaming and condescending to people by insulting their health problems.

At least you're equal opportunity by belittling the younger members usage af slang and abbreviations.

Your concern is duly noted.

[ShazzieB]

405. I meant to comment on this earlier.

But I let it go because I was too busy trying to read all the posts.

Trying to be divisive, blaming and condescending to people by insulting their health problems.

Yes, the op was the one doing that ☝, and it struck me as both ageist and ableist. Yes, the older we get, the more health problems we're likely to have, but people of all ages can have serious illnesses or injuries requiring medical attention, even *gasp* surgery. Shame on those of us who aren't 100% healthy and able-bodied and have the audaci to want to talk shout it here, I guess! .

[mercuryblues]

419. exactly.

When I mentioned my problems here, I not only got support but was able to offer advice to several members much at various ages going through almost the same thing.

In return, I get to shock my kids with knowing current musicians and lingo.

[orthoclad]

319. A generational divide is

another divide-and-conquer tool of the oligarchy.

Yes, there are different perspectives with different ages, and the tension between them helps drive society, but I agree that we need to stay focused on the fact that our living environment is being destroyed in the service of greed and power.

There's a correlation between poverty, pollution, climate change, and this top curve:


from the Congressional Budget Office

[dalton99a]

323. +1

[Bernardo de La Paz]

327. Gap, but not a disconnect. Constantly bridged, though present. . . . nt

[housecat]

328. DU has the same rules for everyone. They also have enough topics to cover just about everything one

wants to discuss. Don't mess with perfection.

[housecat]

330. The last line is really the point

[calimary]

332. Well, I've got kids and grandkids, so the climate crisis is my prime concern anymore.

I think about it all the time. Especially every time I’m outside.

EVERY time.

[IronLionZion]

336. Probably also the time of day of posts

Retired DUers are more likely to have free time during the day and be watching TV. I like the posts where they say "did you see what so and so just said" as if everyone else is watching the same thing. Younger DUers might use more social media. I cut the cord on TV service 8 years ago.

I found DU while I was a college student 20 years ago. I was looking for like-minded folks opposing the Iraq war. There are different issues at stake these days. AI is the new H1B these days. "they're stealing our jobs" sounds pretty stupid during labor shortage.

I keep hoping younger generations will finally defeat the NRA and pass some sensible gun reforms. They're the ones who grew up with mass shootings. Shootings were still rare and shocking when I was in school. It's a regular occurrence now.

[sellitman]

339. I refuse to be judgemental

That's why I'm leaving this alone.

Cheers!

[GreenWave]

341. Here's a youngster singing to the oldsters...

Remember,

[Pluvious]

347. This is an important discussion, glad you brought it up

Different generations have many challenges, perspectives and priorities

It would be impossible to all mesh in perfect synchronicity

A good start is to just keep this in mind

[boston bean]

348. I am sure there is plenty of room in GD for anyone to post about climate

and community/friendship, advice, exploits, requests for help.

Carry on with this divisive crap I guess.

For young people to join and post we need to silence seniors? No thank you.

[NNadir]

350. Most of here at DU are old folks, in my opinion.

I am old myself.

On a purely technical level, my generation, as a whole, has nothing to say on climate change. We drove it; we caused it, muttering stale rhetoric all the time, and this stale rhetoric is still being muttered with no result.

Muttering the same thing over and over and over and over again, while paying zero attention to the results is conservative and has nothing to do with being dynamic and open to reality.

Things are getting worse faster than they were 20 years ago, when I joined DU.

People lie, to themselves and to each other, but numbers don't lie:

In the 20th century, using the weekly numbers available at the Mauna Loa Carbon Dioxide Observatory, it took from 1975 (the week of May 25, when the weekly data started being posted), when the CO2 concentration was 334.1 ppm to the week of March 8, 1991, when the concentration was 357.89 ppm to rise by as much as it has in the last ten years (see below). That is 15 years and 9 months.

Note that these increases took place during the time my generation came of age, took control of world. We got worse:

We've seen readings of 424 ppm, ppm concentrations of the dangerous fossil fuel waste carbon dioxide in the atmosphere this May, just 10 years after we first saw readings of 400 ppm, the week beginning May 5, 2013 to be precise. (This May we peaked at 424.64, the week of May 28, 2023, after breaking 424 ppm (424.07 ppm, April 23, 2023).

When I joined DU, in November of 2002, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the planetary atmosphere was 377.76 ppm. Last week, as we approach the annual minimum, the numbers posted at the Observatory were 418.33 ppm:

Week beginning on September 17, 2023: 418.33 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 415.65 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 393.79 ppm
Last updated: September 25, 2023

Trends in Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

By reference to the annual data at the observatory, we can see that it took 22 years from 1959 to 1981 for the CO2 concentrations to rise as much as it rose between March of 2013 and May of 2023.

Who, exactly, do we think we're kidding?

Nothing of our rhetoric worked; nothing is working, and as for this chanting: Once again, it's conservative, since not much about it has changed. It's still a reactionary effort to return to the early 19th century and make energy dependent on the weather, of all things, at precisely the same point we destabilized the weather completely.

As a result, the planet burned all through the Northern Hemisphere Summer of 2023. Surely what is left to burn will start do so in the summer of 2024 and summers beyond, until everything that can burn is burned.

My son, at age 24, is working on a Ph.D. in nuclear engineering, I'm proud to say, is on the front lines of fighting climate change, as are the young people who are his colleagues, many explicitly working with him because of climate issues. They care. I'm sure he'd agree that, since we have a spectacular record of doing nothing, most of us old folks should just get out of the way with our silly bourgeois rhetoric, our irrational fear, and our selective attention.

My generation, for the most part, to repeat again, has almost nothing of importance to say at this point. All we have done is to consume like drunk sailors and vilify practical engineering that might have helped. It is a crime against the future that the rising generations will have to clean up our mess, vast wilderness land areas destroyed or severely damaged to make industrial parks for our reactionary affectations, all the best ores depleted, vast ecosystems on the verge of collapse, the atmosphere and the seas on the verge of collapse, the land sea and even the air soaked with plastic.

And we want to lecture on the environment? Really?

Rather than pontificate about the environment, E&E, Ennui and Excuses, we would have been better off if we'd opened science books and had respect for science and scientists.

In my opinion, we don't.

Indeed, we should have had some respect for the young and indeed for all future generations. That was not to be.

Personally I am impressed with the young generation now rising. They are thinking anew. They will be a great generation, as all generations left with the legacy of disastrous generations must be.

I often close my posts in this space with the following statement, with which I'll close again.

History will not forgive us; nor should it.

[megapuzzler]

358. Any generation gap is exacerbated by posts like this.

"People on both sides feel like they are being mischaracterized and stereotyped." Then you proceed to mischaracterize and stereotype both young and old. I've seen memes and articles on other social media of millennials supposedly disparaging boomers, and boomers supposedly disparaging millennials, and it all seems quite contrived to me, almost as if someone is trying to drive a wedge between the generations. I know quite a few from all generations, and none of them look down at each other because of an age gap.

BTW, I've never seen ANYONE refer to climate change activists here as "terrorists or stupid and selfish," and I read DU daily. Do you have a link?

[Act_of_Reparation]

366. DU can be very hostile towards young people.

I don't think anyone really gives a shit about people describing their health problems. What's going to turn young people off to this site is the blaming young people for lost elections, the persistent and willful refusal to acknowledge issues young people face, and the naked contempt for their lifestyles and priorities.

[waterwatcher123]

389. You can pretty easily skip posts about someone's health crisis.

I completely get that young people are not interested in discussions about someone's health care crisis. However, the fact that someone even trusts everyone enough to post about their health problems shows a level of trust with the audience. These posts and responses show what it means to have empathy for the frailties that become more acute as a person ages.

Many of us are quite aware that young people saved the last two elections (the 2020 and 2022 national elections). So, most of us are grateful you are discerning enough to know the issues and vote for a progressive future (it is hard in an era of misinformation). We have two young sons ourselves who could not be further apart politically. Our older son (25) votes the same way we do for the most politically progressive candidates on the ballot. Our younger son is influenced by his friends to vote for independent or conservative candidates.

The attempt to divide people by age is a strategy of the monied interests (corporate interests) in this country and elsewhere who do not want to pay taxes, support environmental action or even defend democracy (which is most definitely under threat right now). I heard my entire life that Social Security (SS) was going broke and would not be around for retirees. It was a corporate campaign message designed to convince a broad audience that they could achieve greater returns on their retirement accounts by turning SS over to private interests (unfortunately, not everyone is a good investor). The same thing is going on today suggesting that nothing can be done about carbon emissions or climate change. Steel yourself - refuse to accept and believe these messages. If you can be convinced that nothing can be done, then the battle is 2/3rds of the way over. Instead, refuse to accept these messages as inevitable.

Keep up the good fight and be patient. As my colleagues at work used to say (worked for an environmental agency), you are in it for the long haul.

[ProfessorPlum]

369. there are great people in all generations, as well as rotten people

i'll find my allies in making the world a kinder, safer, better place for people among all ages, wherever I can find them.

[Iggo]

372. The attempts to divide us are real.

Don’t fall for it.

[Caliman73]

375. There is definitely an age, and thus priority gap.

People at different stages of life, and who grew up with different technologies and different customs are not going to use the same tools, language, or have the same priorities.

People can definitely get defensive about their actions, their life experiences, etc... It goes both ways.


I am curious about a statement you made regarding "climate change". Which young climate activists are being called "terrorists"?

If you are talking about people who deface the Mona Lisa or other art work to get attention for climate change. I wouldn't call them "terrorists" I would call them stupid for doing something that will bring about attention to them for being destructive and NOT AT ALL for climate change.

Blow up an oil tanker (don't!) or damage property of Exxon (I am obligated to say ... don't) to bring attention to climate change. Certainly some will still call you a terrorist, as terrorism is the use of violence and destruction to incite fear in order to push a political agenda. Damaging the property of polluters however, makes sense and may garner SOME support rather than just pissing people off by damaging cultural iconography.

The generation gap has always existed. Younger people tend toward direct actions, and may be seen as being rash rather than engaging in the system we have for making political change. While young people voted in greater numbers recently, there is still a pitifully low percentage of eligible young voters (18-25) that vote in elections, run for office, etc.. I also know that young people tend to think that electoralism brings no real change (and there is definitely truth to that idea), especially when money from the wealthiest people is given to both major parties and they are lobbied to exempt certain industries, groups, etc... from meaningful change. When the average House race is costing millions of dollars, the average Senate race 10's to 100's of millions, and the Presidency upwards of a billion or more.

Human beings are wired to see the world from their own experiences. You are right that we should take time to try to see it from the perspective of other people. That TOO works both ways.

[Model35mech]

376. Culture: Those things about our lives and societies that pass down generation to generation

If its coming down generation to generation, it tracks thru history. Not long ago, Fukuyama said History was ending. I suppose then that something similar can be said for culture.

Should culture continue to evolve; to be or not to be? That could be a question. Look at the fine messes it's laid upon us!

And is ending, how so? Will the 'End Of Culture' come when the experienced quit sharing it, or when what is shared is refused to be considered? If for no greater value than it's preservation, so that answers to "What the hell were they thinking?" can be uncovered?

The Past really has tremendous value and power in the Future, one could say with much truth that the Past greatly influences the Future. Yet, it's pretty clear that those in the Present mostly control what is shared from the Past.

But whose past is shared? It depends on perspective, and perspective is a product of personal and socialized experience. It influences what we notice and think of as valuable. Two generations living in the same time will have somewhat different perspectives of how the past has taken them here and dropped yet unsolved challenges before them, and where now sets between the past and present.

Differing generational perspective guarantees differences in those generations' anticipation/apprehensions of now and the future.

But differences may not need to be a wall between generations, or a guarantee of inter-generational angst.

[ellisonz]

377. This thread is a train wreck.

Can someone help me pay my student loans?

[Martin68]

380. I'm 71 and I constantly post about the threat of climate change, Black Lives Matter (they

still do!), support for LGBTQ issues, support for students' freedom to read books on all topics, etc, etc. I don't post about personal health issues, and I have never made a complaint about anybody's slang. I do offer my experience and memories in support of understanding our current situation. The history of politics since Nixon purposefully divided this country is important to understand, just as the true history of African Americans is necessary to understand the current situation. Generation gaps always exist, but I see no reason we can't all accept what each of us has to offer the conversation. Being judgmental and narcissistic never helped anybody. I guess I haven't seen enough of that on DU to understand the charge that's being made.

[Conjuay]

382. Okay, Brenda,

You are right. We get lost in the day to day nonsense and forget the real monster in the room.
I appreciate people like you who try to keep us focused.

Thanks.

[Bonx]

399. The gap between the fifty somethings and the seventy somethings?

I wonder what % of DU is under 50. Maybe 5%

[MyMission]

400. I've also heard that from young Dems outside DU

I know a number of younger Democrats, 20's and 30's, who feel as you do. Younger people have more energy, longer vision, and are more willing to establish new protocols and norms, and reject the status quo when it is not working.

I think back to the last presidential election and the primaries. There were so many good candidates, but in the end we chose Biden, the status quo. He had the experience and connections that were deemed most important to defeat tfg. But Bernie had a big following, and yet he was not so well received here on DU. Kamala had a following, but many here didn't "like" her as much as other candidates. Some want to discuss alternative candidates now, and I've suggested we do that in terms of after Biden, not instead of.

I understand younger people are becoming more involved, and want to see younger people representing them, and the issues that are important and essential. And I'm delighted that the next generations are stepping up. They will increase our voting numbers, and impact the direction our country will go next. I'm hoping for far left! (But I dropped out of grad school, ABD, and worked for Greenpeace when Raygun was reelected.)

Even here on DU, trolls aside, we see wide range of opinions. Look at the responses this post has had!

[EarnestPutz]

401. 400 responses!!! We have a winner, ladies and gentleman!! Great post!! I'm a boomer.

[appleannie1]

404. I don't agree with the poster.

I am 80 years old and one of my biggest worries is what is going to happen to my grandchildren, great grandchildren and great great grandchildren if we don't do more about climate change. Three of them are LGBTQ members and worry how divided the nation has become in that area also. I have seen and responded to many posts about those subjects and know that many older people on here have also reposted. This community welcomes all ages. After all, we too were young once and do care about the future. One of the best things about DU is we can all share our lives and thoughts on issues. Not everyone agrees but that too is simply being part of the human family.
When any of us are ill or have lost a loved one, and you can be any age for that to happen, just knowing there are other people that care can help immensely and helping people get through trying times is a good thing.

[boston bean]

426. Thank you appleannie! Very wonderfully stated!

[MineralMan]

413. LOL!

That is all.

[ShazzieB]

418. Still no examples of young climate change activists being referred to as terrorists?

Yet climate discussions are rare and young climate change activists are referred to as terrorists or stupid and selfish here.

If anyone at DU is calling young climate change activists terrorists or defaming them in other ways, I for one would really like to know the details. Since repeated requests for examples have not produced any, no one else has confirmed seeing this, and I've never seen anything like it myself, I'm having trouble taking this claim with anything other than a very large grain of salt.

That is all.

[MineralMan]

421. That Has Never Happened.

Simple.

[ShazzieB]

423. I'm sure you're right!

[Think. Again.]

439. See post 438 below.

[Think. Again.]

438. Just a note...

...one strong example of climate activists being defamed and talked badly about here on DU is a rather long discussion from back in Oct 22 after 2 young activist threw soup onto a piece of glass in London:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217251734

I know that this same type of vitriol against young climate activists came from some members of DU after young American climate activists made people have to wait before a tennis game could be watched:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18255960

And earlier this year DU had a very long and angry thread dedicated to young activists who smeared paint on YET ANOTHER PIECE OF GLASS(!)

The point these activists are doing a very good job of expressing is that a large portion of the public value certain pieces of glass and watching tennis games on schedule much more than they value our only life-support system, and yes, those activists do get treated very badly here in DU.

The article in the thread linked below article might explain why the public in general, and some folks here at DU, do indeed show hate for these young activists:

MEET THE SHADOWY NETWORK VILIFYING CLIMATE ACTIVISTS

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127168359

[AntivaxHunters]

442. I remember reading that & just shaking my head

There's a real disconnect

[ShazzieB]

443. Thanks for these.

I was aware that there have been threads at DU criticizing climate protests like these. I was and still am unconvinced that any DUers have called them terrorists, and that was what I (and I believe others) have questioned.

I didn’t see any examples of that in the thread you posted, but I see that one of them quotes extensively from an article about a German politician describing them that way. I think its possible the op saw that thread and the idea of climate activists being called terrorists got mixed up with their impressions of the general negativity and they forgot who actually called them that. That sort of thing has happened to me more than once, and I know I've avoided some howlers only by carefully double-checking what I'd read.

The op made some valid points, imo, but unfortunately they did it in a way that caused some of us oldsters feel attacked and respond accordingly, which caused the whole thread to get derailed. I'm sorry that happened; but I also understand why a lot of folks, including myself, reacted the way we did.

I feel like I've learned something from this. I hope a lot of us have, including the op.

[Celerity]

448. thanks for posting this, that thread was a true shitshow

here is a sample of what was said

a poster listed some of the replies

[hlthe2b]

449. Bullshit on that. The concern was the tactic, not the cause. Putting priceless art at risk most

people with any degree of appreciation for the rare treasures of the art world would find to be offensive, even while they more than likely would support the cause behind it as I have every reason to believe is the case here (this shows no evidence to the contrary). THAT was what was being discussed. It is an abysmal misrepresentation to suggest the issue was to vilify climate activists and their cause. Tactics matter. So does truth.

[Think. Again.]

450. There was no risk...

...of such a monetarily-valuable painting being harmed in that extremely well-funded institution.

You should know that.

[hlthe2b]

451. No. It is not clear at all that was the case. Or that they were content to stop with throwing paint.

Given this attitude I have to wonder. Had you lived through the civil rights movement, I have to wonder if you'd be convinced to remain non-violent. There are smart tactics. Winning tactics. And there are the impulsive and cause-damaging tactics that simply show recklessness and disregard for everyone else and every other issue.

And when you point to those who question those tactics and reframe it as though those speaking out were instead espousing opposition to climate change and the environment--that is beyond misleading. It is not true.

[Think. Again.]

452. Of course it's the case....

...every piece of art in that museum is extremely well protected from harm.

They don't just hang them on the wall and hope people don't damage them.

You're being a little silly.

[hlthe2b]

453. No. And your misstating the nature of that opposition to the tactics...

shows a level of deception that should be tolerated. I hope you grow up some day because these kinds of tactics that you favor and defend will not end well nor will it help the cause. If you care about uniting as much support and efforts toward climate change and the environment, you need to acknowledge and build on that which has come before--rather than dividing those trying to make a difference. One day, I think you will come to realize that and regret this kind of attitude.

[Think. Again.]

454. The "tactics" worked...beautifully...

...even here on this one website, we are STILL discussing their demonstration.

[hlthe2b]

455. Not at all. I refuse not to correct the record and I will likewise point you

Last edited Thu Sep 28, 2023, 07:04 PM - Edit history (2)

to a much wider read, far more participated thread. Perhaps you might learn something.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18303617

I challenge you to try to unite and stop the divisive resentful posts. DU has a 22 year history of uniting people of all ages. I should hope you'd want to foster that if you really care about any number of critical causes. Respectful interaction, rather than offensive accusations will help you and a few others on this thread more than you might think.

Oh, and acts of vandalism toward irreplaceable art (whether you think they will be damaged or not) is criminal. Just like shooting a gun, confident that you will "miss" at someone's head. These are childish, self-damaging disespectful tactics. And illegal. You would do well to learn that.

[Think. Again.]

456. My journal is entirely open...

...I challenge YOU to find one example, in context, of me making an offensive accusation to anyone.

I stand firm against B.S., some B.S.ers don't like that.