Watch out for attempts to divide progressives on social media (including DU)

[jmbar2]

Malign entities were very active in helping tRump win the 2016 election by fomenting divisions between Americans on social media. It is likely to be happening again.

I am seeing on a variety of media, posts that try to stir up antagonism between generations, targeting younger generations to resent boomers. There's a lot of that on Reddit right now. It comes in waves.

Shit-stirrers may be engaging in well-known propaganda technique called "Reflexive Control" to try to create a generational split on the left ahead of elections.

The end goal for these efforts is to trigger emotional reactions and drive people to ideological extremes, making it nearly impossible to build a consensus. The Russians also hope those who are not driven to extreme positions will throw up their hands in frustration and check out. The result is political paralysis.

Here's a notional example: Suppose you and a neighbor agree that your property taxes are too high, but disagree on issues related to sensitive topics like race relations or immigration. You start seeing online memes focusing on extreme views on these topics. Those memes evoke strong reactions, painting the issue as a battle between two extremes. You begin thinking of your neighbor based on this false dichotomy. The neighbor becomes one of “them” rather than a person with whom you had some commonality. After all, it's difficult to agree on most anything when you and your neighbor view each other as racist or anti-American.

...

Their focus is to gin people up to be against one another regardless of their identity or political beliefs. That's why Russia tries to infiltrate groups of both Black Lives Matter and white nationalists online.

https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/07/how-you-can-fight-russias-plans-to-troll-americans.html

We have one raging thread already on DU today that is pretty suspect. Please read the article above. It explains how such infighting weakens us.

We need a strong coalition of all generations of progressives to fight the attempts to destroy democracy, both from within our borders, and from outside.

[elleng]

1. Good idea.

I sure as heck hesitated.

[Maru Kitteh]

2. Agreed! As I said on another thread, we need each other and not in a team-building, bullshit touchy-feely

kinda way either. We need each other. Our mutual survival depends upon it.

[oregonjen]

3. Thank you for posting this

Stronger together!

[Chi67]

4. Yep

I saw it too. It didn’t work.

[live love laugh]

5. The age-ism is rife on TikTok. Biden's a big target 🎯.

[Nixie]

6. I've seen a screed here against posters that is used in exactly the

way your links describe. Hmmm.

[sheshe2]

20. Nixie!

I have missed you.

I didn't post on that other thread, it pissed me off. At first I thought the OP was a GenX only to find out they are in their 60's and said WE are old and in the way. Wow. Guess we should just step aside.

No more talk about surgeries, loss of loved ones or home care for the elderly...which is something GenX is going to be going through in the future.

Fact:
Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It.

[Nixie]

32. Hi she! I have missed you, too.

I saw that thread and my hunches about how it was promoted turns out to be right as I look at the contributions. Sour grapes again it looks like. It's just amazing that the voices of voters through elections are ignored in place of angst over a reality based website. And some of those young voters keep getting....younger, lol, hmmm.

Always good to see you, she!

[Cha]

64. Aloha she.. is that the

Thread that talks about primarying Pres Biden?

Mahalo!💙🇺🇸🌊🐬

[sheshe2]

68. This.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218298873

Yikes...

Cha

[Cha]

69. TY! I'm on my phone

Now so I can’t link to a specific post but #190 seems to sum it up nicely.

💜🌊🐬🕊️🇺🇸

[sheshe2]

72. I went back to read it.

Yes, it sums it up nicely.

[Cha]

73. I figured you would 😎

Mahalo 💙🇺🇸🌊

[Cha]

65. Aloha to you too Nixie and

Mahalo!💙🇺🇸🌊🐬

[Nixie]

80. Aloha to you too, Cha!

Good to see you.

[Cha]

81. Yes, as always..

Love to see you, Nix 😊💙🌊🇺🇸🐬💜❤️💚🍀

[byronius]

7. So relevant.

[iemanja]

8. We certainly saw that in 2016

and look where it got us.

[gab13by13]

9. Aegism and polls that are used for propaganda.

Democrats are mauling Magats in special elections and overperforming in the vast majority of those elections.

Joseph Biden, best president in my lifetime.

[wnylib]

25. Besides ageism threads, posting polls, defeatist views, and

calls for replacing Biden on the Dem ticket are another divisive tactic.

We've been seeing a lot of those kinds of posts and threads lately. Often they are not regular participants on DU.

Regarding defeatist views, I don't mean the concerns that most of us feel about the current threat to democracy or the possibility for violence from the right. We all feel down sometimes about the state of affairs, and are concerned. Defeatist posts and threads are different. They create hopelessness that can paralyze people from voting or getting involved in elections.

[iemanja]

63. Posting polls

No where in the post above does it say news should be censored to protect the vulnerable.

I myself don't post polls, but I see the constant refrain that every single poll known to humankind is rigged. It's laughable.

[wnylib]

67. I would consider such comments about

every poll being rigged to be absurd. But I have not seen such posts.

Nobody is promoting censorship of posts, although we do have such a thing on DU, but only for trolls. I have pointed out that some posts are more credible than others. I think I can make that point without being censored for saying it.

I agree with several other posters that polls at this stage are meaningless since the elections are several months away and a lot can change before then. So I do wonder why people bother to post them. I think I am allowed to be skeptical without being censored for it.

[iemanja]

74. I disagree with your assertion

that posting polls is troll-like.

[Celerity]

85. +1

[phylny]

33. I just decided to trash the word "poll" here on DU.

[msfiddlestix]

39. Great idea! I forgot about that feature. Thanks for the reminder!

[emulatorloo]

10. Kick&Rec

[jmbar2]

11. See also this PBS story on the Russian Troll Farm

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/russias-troll-factory-impersonates-americans-to-sow-political-chaos

[JHB]

12. There are points of division and always have been....

...which makes is especially important to "chill out" when something from the "other faction" surfaces.

Engage with people online, but keep a firewall.

Impact the people you can, discard the people you can't.

[calimary]

23. Good advice.

[Recycle_Guru]

13. yes--very obvious. keep our heads about us and VOTE

[calimary]

24. More good advice!

Just don’t forget to VOTE!!!

They can’t take that away from us - until they can. Which means WE have to make damn sure they can’t.

And don’t.

And WON’T.

[sheshe2]

14. "We need a strong coalition of all generations"

That is a fact.

One generation alone will not solve this, listen to your elders who lived it and we must learn from our young ones who must survive. We need to do this together.

Seems to me the other OP doesn't understand that we as elders have children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews etc that we care about. We have done what we could to make a better future.

They are one person
They are two alone
They are three together
They are for each other

[msfiddlestix]

40. Perfectly stated!

[sheshe2]

70. Thank you, msfiddlestix!

[PatrickforB]

15. Always somebody ready to pound in wedges. You bet. Take a close look at

my signature line, please!

[Snarkoleptic]

16. The GOP machine is flush with cash and can afford massive investment promoting reich wing causes.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/22/politics/dark-money-donation-conservative-group-invs/index.html

A new group led by a prominent conservative lawyer has received $1.6 billion from one donor – the largest single contribution to a politically focused nonprofit that’s ever been made public, and a fortune that could be used to fuel right-wing interests.

The nonprofit, Marble Freedom Trust, received the contribution in the form of stock and then funneled more than $200 million to other conservative organizations last year, a tax form CNN obtained from the IRS shows.

[jmbar2]

19. Hadn't heard of them - thanks for the link

Think of all the good that could be done with that much money.

[calimary]

28. It's a shame that the word "freedom" has been so badly co-opted.

And by organizations that do anything BUT advocate for freedom, especially freedom of thought and expression. The "freedom" crazies are the ones who are banning books, turning back the clock on women's rights and gay and trans rights, and more.

VERY discouraging turn our country's taken. But it's up to us to REMAIN VIGILANT, AND CLEAR-EYED. And NOT to be take-in by something that sounds harmless but is exactly the opposite. They often have "America" and "Family" and other key words in their titles - to fool you and suck you in. "Heritage Foundation" is another one. Doesn't that sound good and high-'n'-mighty and devoted to all good things that we can all agree on, or American history or some such thing? Shit! Guess again!!! Nothing but various packs of wolves in sheep's clothing.

DO NOT be taken in. That old cliche rings true yet again: I"f it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." I'd add "undoubtedly" to it, also.

[PurgedVoter]

17. This thread seems fine, but soon similar threads will end up being devisive

Expect calls to unity to start getting ugly and in effect be divisive.

Also expect respected voices to get sucked into it. Keep tolerant and try not to alienate with anger folk you normally would agree with. There is a snare for all of us and as the targeting activates our own particular buttons, it will be easy to see things we disagree with in things that were not what was said or meant.

My personal web pages are being hit hard with Russian spam. The attacks are already ramping up.

[jmbar2]

18. Thank you for posting

One of the most effective ways to combat disinformation is to let people know that it's happening. Once you are aware, it becomes easier to stay out of it.

I hope they are all getting extra rations of potatoes for their hard work.

[Recycle_Guru]

30. calls to unity behind our incumbent Democratic president shouldn't get ugly unless

some have a problem with such an obviously correct position to take as a Democratic site.

[betsuni]

21. K&R

[PortTack]

22. Point well taken.. I see it everyday including here. Don't accept it, don't spread it by reading

Or posting to it, here or elsewhere.

[Hekate]

26. I wish I could KnR this multiple times. TY for creating this as an OP...

That other thread is horribly divisive.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

57. Hard to believe that other thread wasn't taken out by a jury.

Should have been alerted on for violating ToS about as many times as it now has replies. THAT is what troubles me.

[Hekate]

94. Somewhere around the 400 mark I alerted on 2 posters. AFAIK they are still there. SMH

[Recycle_Guru]

93. I continue to Kick it along with other threads

and resist the urge to reply to trolls and their latest doom and gloom polls

[Iggo]

27. Know it when you see it.

Young versus old (this year’s most popular version). Rich versus poor. POC versus white. POC vs POC. Whatever. But it’s always Dem versus Dem, never a mention of our actual political adversaries, the fucking MAGA’s.

So like I said, know it when you see it, try not to take the bait. And even if you do take the bait at first, recognize it and back out of it. Don’t dig in. I’m not just talking to you all. I’m talking to myself, too. In fact, especially…lol. I fall for it, too. But we can’t afford to fight each other. So let’s not.

[brush]

29. There was a post earlier today doing just that...

Last edited Mon Sep 25, 2023, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

bashing boomers. It's pretty obvious what the agenda is as DUers, no matter what cohort, wouldn't be here if they aren't PROGRESSIVE.

That's why we're here so, and of course to promote Democrats and help them win elections. Generation wars is silly and not the reason to come here.

[mopinko]

35. unless u get paid by the post.

they’re here. trust me on this.

[brush]

46. I had to fix a typo in my post. It was "were" progressive to "weren't progressive.'t

That fix give the original intent of my post.

But anyway, there are a few generation warriors trolling here, but I think most here are center left to far left, which I would label both progressive as opposed to center right on to extreme right magats.

Other wise, who has time to just be trolling DU all day? That generation war/ok boomer bs from 3-4 years ago has mostly been gone for the site for a while except for occasional flare ups.

[ananda]

31. When I saw the DU thread, I was really surprised.

I just ignored it.

[Recycle_Guru]

44. yeah--I refused to feed that beast but saw it had over 300 replies

there are slightly unstable people who actually get delight doing this stuff just to try destroying our morale.

They actually treat themselves as commandos who are fighting behind enemy lines to see how long they can sow discord before they are banned or FFR

[mopinko]

34. ya know, i forget what the initial event was, but for a minute there were "mom" groups popping up

might have been george floyd. maybe someone remembers.

anyway, a friend of mine started a fb group in my hood, trying to plan a protest. went from 0- hundreds of members in a couple days. omg did it go haywire fast. ppl crying about it being all white ladies. not in the group, just the handful of admins.
i tried to tell them they were trolls, and that they needed to block the shit stirrers, but free speech and all that. white guilt? i dunno. but they got played like a baby grand.
ended up shutting it down about a week later.

there is no effort too small to attract these assholes. i live in a kinda hippy hotbed that has attracted trolls from jump street. it’s always the same.
we rly need to school ourselves on this shit, and not rise to the bait.

[intheflow]

36. Talking about generational differences

is NOT the same as trying to cause division. I mean, it COULD be, but I honestly don’t see any of the DU posts being about that. The fact that some older folks feel like they’re being attacked by young people here is not indicative of anything other than their own feelings, probably more tied to their impending and inescapable mortality.

Generation gaps are real, and when has ignoring reality ever been a good thing for society?

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

41. But the post being referenced today was pointing fingers

and insulted "older folks", and was horribly misinformed

The climate crisis is NOW and I think young people want to see politically engaged older people talk about THAT not trivial things like Senate clothing or other minutiae. Yet climate discussions are rare and young climate change activists are referred to as terrorists or stupid and selfish here.

Believe me, those attitudes will not gain you one single vote from young people.

People need to stop being so judgmental and narcissistic.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18298873

[Recycle_Guru]

45. that is a very bad take and I wish you would delete it

[Nixie]

47. Oh dear. 👎🏻. "impending and inescapable mortality" yeah, just

like 82-year-old Bernie Sanders on down the line. Some people even die in their 20’s or 30’s. I remember the death proclamations from another election that was lost but we’re still here. Maybe pick something other than death to base your future anticipated success on?

[betsuni]

86. Heh, thank you.

[Nixie]

89. Thank you for also keeping it real!

[SYFROYH]

37. Have the Olive Garden threads started up again?

[msfiddlestix]

38. HUGE REC for this one. I'm seeing it too, right here.

I'm sure it's going to get mighty worse in the coming months. Confusion and angst. The Polling posts are not helping. I don't read them, but it's a constant thing to have to ignore.

But ignore I do, just the same

[Initech]

42. There's going to be lots of attempts to gaslight the primaries.

We have to remain vigilant. There's way too much at stake and we can't let these scumbags win.

[milestogo]

43. Some shit-stirrers are long time DUers

who think their shit doesn't stink. I put them on ignore.

[Maraya1969]

48. Cannot remember the topic, but it was a good idea

For the Dems for the next election. And then someone posted “it won’t work“ I asked this person why do you say things like that and he just kept insisting that it was the right thing to say. I think that person was trying to divide us and trying to get us to not use that idea. Why would you say something like “it won’t work“ to somebody’s idea?

I blocked this person and then I just unblocked this person because I wanted to see the thread however, I’m on my phone and don’t know how to do a search on here. I wish I had reported him so other people could’ve looked at what he said.

[Happy Hoosier]

49. Always remember....

That Putin specialized in fomenting internal dissent during his time in the KGB. This is his expertise.

[Sympthsical]

50. I don't think inquisitions need encouragement

Weeding out phantom heretics for sport is already kind of exhausting and distracts from matters at hand. Not everyone can be Poirot.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

66. I just finished watching all 70 or so Poirot episodes

on Britbox. Awesome show.

[stuck in the middle]

76. The Witch Hunt in Cartagena- History of Cartagena

I don't think inquisitions need encouragement

[Hekate]

51. Kick for a new day

[Recycle_Guru]

52. goong to keep kicking this one so it stays above that other trashy thread

stoking generational conflict on DU

[jmbar2]

54. thank you!

[Chi67]

62. Thank you too!

That thread was terrible, and also not true.

[debm55]

77. Why wasn;t it taken down?

[NCIndie]

53. Demccrats create their own divides. Outside influences have a different agenda

The divisions between the Clinton and Obama factions were pretty strong, but the clashes between the Bernie and Hillary groups were epic. We needed no help to shred each other.

Outside influences exist, but their ultimate goal is not to get Trump (or anyone else) elected but to create distrust in the basic institutions. Such as convincing 30%+ of the population that the election in 2020 (or 2000) was stolen. Hating Joe Biden won't motivate anyone to storm the Capitol; convincing them that the election was rigged was plenty of motivation. What fraction of the DU population believes that the Republicans are rigging elections through intimidation, disenfranchisement, and gerrymandering?

Yeah, I think that they outside influences are real, and we are easy marks.

[ancianita]

55. K & R

[BumRushDaShow]

56. I rarely use this but...

Like clockwork... every "election season" the shit-stirring starts, sleepers awaken that only post during election times and then go back to sleep, and so on.

We need to focus on "our backyard" and make sure that we can get as many Democrats elected in municipal, county, and state elections as we can because that is what is going on right now - literally this November (neither the President nor Congress are up for election this year).

[jmbar2]

58. Thank you

I know we've said it before, but this time really is different. Our democracy is hanging on by a thread. There are more of us than them, but it won't matter if we don't turn out at every level.

Thanks for the rec!

[betsuni]

87. +1

[Recycle_Guru]

59. kicking again

[megapuzzler]

60. I completely agree!

I've seen this too. There is no reason why progressive young and old would be against each other. I do think the alleged generation gap is being contrived.

[Aussie105]

61. When someone starts a thread posing a problem . . .

A problem you didn't think existed in the first place . . .

Ask yourself this:

Is it really a problem?
Do you agree it is a problem?
Were you aware that it is a problem?
Are the 'logical consequences' of the problem, as put forward, if true, logically acceptable?
What is the reason behind starting such a thread?
What does the poster hope to achieve with this thread?

I never got past the first question in that thread - I don't know the age of any poster, nor does anyone know my age.

Seriously, I ask you - am I 21 or 81? For that matter, what gender am I? What is my skin color?
What is my socio-economic status? Am I rich or just scraping by?

None of those things are evident or important on DU, and anyone who postulates they are, and therein lies a problem, is just a troll.

But that specific poster has plenty of ammo to generate divisiveness - gender, income level, where you live, skin color, etc.
But seriously, that troll could do better, surely?
That effort was too transparent! (Apprentice troll, new to the game, perhaps?)


EDIT: I don't see such threads as a threat.
I see them more as an opportunity to clarify my thinking on a topic, and call BS where I see it.

[Stinky The Clown]

71. The "Boomers Be Bad" bullshit is going on right now, right here in River City.

[mahina]

75. Agreed the thread today is an example of this.

I got sucked in to the drama myself. Great post, thank you. Good reminder.

[Ferrets are Cool]

78. AMEN!!!

[jmbar2]

79. Thank you everyone for the support

This is a great community. Trolls gonna get called out.

[LiberaBlueDem]

82. Caution

In 10 years if DU does not make DU comfortable for youngsters there will be no one here.

[jmbar2]

83. I'm sure they will greatly appreciate your efforts

[LiberaBlueDem]

84. Yes, you are right

And maybe DU will survive?

[Nixie]

88. Isn't there a memoriam page where you can check to see

how DU survived? Waiting for voters to die doesn’t seem like a valid political strategy for “youngsters.” You would need to find replacement voters, it seems. Welcome back!

[herding cats]

90. I've heard that many, many times before and yet DU is still here.

It's amusing how the impending demise of DU is a recurring theme every election cycle. It's always brandied about in recycled verbiage designed to elicit emotions from one group toward another. The groups change depending on what the du jour outrage is that cycle, but the outrage, much like the show, must go on.

[herding cats]

91. Ah, yes. It is that season again, isn't it?

The perennial appearance of the divide and conquer tag teams.

Thank you for the reminder.

[jmbar2]

92. Love the cat gif!

Thanks