Malcolm Nance just criticized Cassidy Hutchinson for

[rzemanfl]

sitting on information in order to sell a book. This was on Stephanie Miller's show. He is wrong. No one had the need-to-know Rudi put his hand on her fanny, her father was a jerk, etc. If information did not come out in all her testimony under oath in many settings, she was not obligated to volunteer it. I hope Malcolm will change his tune.

[Autumn]

1. I think it may have been a good thing for the J6 committe to know Trump chanted Hang Mike Pence.

[mucifer]

2. Yup

[rzemanfl]

5. We don't know that they didn't.

Salon suggests they did. (This from elsewhere on this board).

On Edit-Via Yahoo-https://news.yahoo.com/hutchinson-trump-took-part-hang-170716484.html

[Autumn]

23. That says it's from her book. The committe heard that Trump demonstrated support for chants,

not that he was chanting Hang Mike Pence.

[rzemanfl]

29. According to the article, the committee knew this information from other sources.

It was not a secret. She was answering questions from the committee.

[Autumn]

39. But not from her. She saved that for her book.

The Jan. 6 select committee has heard testimony indicating that then-President Donald Trump — after rioters who swarmed the Capitol began chanting “hang Mike Pence” — expressed support for hanging his vice president according to three people familiar with the matter.

There's a wee difference in expressing support for the rioters chanting Hang Mike Pence and gleefully chanting along with them Hang Mike Pence.

That would have been news

https://news.yahoo.com/hutchinson-trump-took-part-hang-170716484.html

scroll down to the 2nd story

[thesquanderer]

125. I'm not sure how much of what you typed there is a quote, and from where? (n/t)

[Autumn]

139. Fixed it. Link is now there and fixed the excerpt.

This is also in the 2nd story.

In her 356-page book, published Tuesday, Hutchinson puts forth several previously unheard claims,

[thesquanderer]

143. re: "In her book, Hutchinson puts forth several previously unheard claims"

Yes, the article says that, but then they listed 5... and none of them were anything that would have been relevant to the J6 committee. Interesting article, though.

As for whether "there's a wee difference in expressing support for the rioters chanting Hang Mike Pence and gleefully chanting along with them Hang Mike Pence," -- in terms of the purpose of the J6 committee, is there really a substantive difference between "expressing support for those chanting 'hang Mike Pence' vs. chanting it along with them? At any rate, it sounds like she didn't clearly hear that, all she heard him say was the word "hang." (Not that, in hindsight, it could have meant anything else!) I wonder what other corroboration the committee may have of all of this from behind closed doors as well. And related, whether any question they asked of her would have made the "hang" answer relevant. I guess my feeling is, I'm not seeing where she necessarily withheld anything that really should have been in her testimony, and I'm willing to give benefit of doubt.

[Autumn]

146. I never give any republican the benefit of the doubt. She still supported Trump, that alone

tells me all I need to know about her. She lied to the J6 committee and admitted it.

[orleans]

154. when did she admit she lied? i heard her say she omitted things but i didn't hear her say she lied

i saw three of her interviews
maybe i got distracted a couple times, but i don't recall she admitted lying

[Autumn]

160. She said I don't recall and I don't remember many times when she did remember.

She didn't want to make Trump look bad. That is her admitting she did lie.

[MayReasonRule]

158. Yep, Cassidy Hutchinson Used To Be A Republican Nat-C Fascist, She Still Is But She Used To Be Too

One is either pregnant or one is not.
One is either a fascist or one is not.

Put a pig in a dress and adorn it with lipstick. It's still a pig.

Those that support the same are the same.
Cassidy is the same. She just happens to be wearing lipstick.

[SomewhereInTheMiddle]

161. One is either pregnant or one is not...

But that is a state of being that invariably changes over time.

One might question whether a person, particularly a young person, might change their political views over time, especially if they experience a bad outcome from following those views.

That does not change the facts of their previous actions. They still have to take responsibility for those.

But I am of the opinion that views, even fundamental political views, can change over time.

If not, what is the point of talking about politics at all. If everyone is born with a political view, and it will never vary over the entire course of their life, then political debate is meaningless.

In this case I am not specifically referring to Ms Hutchinson. I have not listened to her testimony, watched her interviews, nor read her book. I have no opinion on her.

Just responding to a general comment with a general question and opinion.

[MayReasonRule]

164. ...Views, Even Fundamental Political Views, Can Change Over Time.

History demonstrates that the more things change the more they tend towards remaining the same. Most changes are first order iterations that only pay lip-service towards substantive second order change.

Some individuals do indeed escape the banality of their inculcated malevolent delusions. They are few and far between.

I count myself, my wife and our daughter as being among those fortunate few. We were inculcated from birth within the Abrahamic blood cults of "Christ'. We were reared as nationalist "Christians".

Today our "god" is reason and our "savior" is doubt. It was only through doubt that we embraced reason.
Which is why we say that we've been beat to hell then lifted out, odd to say both times by doubt.

When we rejected doubt we embraced delusion, as we embraced doubt we embraced reality's reason.
Here's to the individual under discussion making that transition.
Things are always as they are and rarely as I'd have them to be. Hence, I'm not gonna' hold my breath waiting for her transformation into a reasoned individual.

[obamanut2012]

57. How do you know she didn't tell them that?

[Autumn]

72. I would think that would have been made public. At least I hope it would since some of her

testimony was public. Trump chanting hang Mike Pence is a bug fucking deal. Especially in an impeachment trial.

[we can do it]

3. Rock on Malcolm.

[flying_wahini]

4. So many men he could have criticized for sitting on info but he chose her? Hmmm .

Is it biting the hand that feeds you syndrome?

[Solomon]

98. How do you know how many he's criticized. or not?

[pnwmom]

156. Which male Republican book authors has he criticized? nt

[bigtree]

6. she initially stonewalled investigators on the advice of her Trump counsel

...still her decision to withhold evidence until the point she decided to drop the Trump attorney and get a public defender.

How much time passed in the interim? What really prompted her change of heart? Were SC investigators pressuring her at that time, presenting her with evidence of her own actions and threatening to treat her as a hostile witness?

It doesn't make sense for the onetime Trump loyalist to be regarded as anything but a reluctant witness, at least in the time she was giving investigators incomplete info.

[rzemanfl]

7. She was not writing a book then. n/t

[bigtree]

9. are you sure?

...she didn't have a book deal, but was she writing a book at the time?

I'd think so, having written two, myself. It takes more than a minute.

[rzemanfl]

20. No, I am not totally sure.

I wonder what the title would have been at that point My Lies to a Congressional Committee? Or, Gee Whiz, I Just Remembered All This Stuff!

[Raven123]

8. I'm betting she thought about the fate of Michael Cohen and realized her personal risk

[bigtree]

10. that too

...many witnesses caved after watching the SC prosecute.

[gab13by13]

13. Huh,

I am totally lost. I must have brain damage. If it weren't for Cassidy Hutchinson's J6 testimony there most likely wouldn't be a Jack Smith. Her testimony embarrassed DOJ into finally investigating Trump.

Maybe my memory is shot?

For the record, it was another Republican, Liz Cheney, who sat down with Cassidy and convinced her to go public, It wasn't anyone from DOJ who pressured her, DOJ wasn't even looking into Trump.

[ariadne0614]

34. If you're lost, so am I. n/t

[bigtree]

44. she initially had a Trump lawyer who she eventually ditched

WaPo:

"In her September testimony, Hutchinson described struggling with the opposing forces at play: her belief that she did not tell the truth in her first two interviews —"

"DID NOT TELL THE TRUTH IN HER FIRST TWO INTERVIEWS."

[obnoxiousdrunk]

68. +1. N/T

[Fiendish Thingy]

71. It appears your memory is indeed faulty.

While Hutchinson’s testimony was indeed significant, your claim that it “embarrassed DOJ into finally investigating Trump” is false, with no evidence to support it.

DOJ began investigating Trump in the weeks following Garland and Monaco’s confirmations (actually preliminary investigations had begun before that). Very Little information about the investigations became public knowledge for months, or even a year or more, but now we know a lot more than we did in 2021-early 2022.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

100. "Her testimony embarrassed DOJ into finally investigating Trump."

Regurgitating that debunked opinion piece over and over doesn't make it true.

That's not how law enforcement works. "Oh I'm so embarrassed! Let's start a real probe to save face!"

She studied Watergate ....? What a load.

[emulatorloo]

27. WATCH: Aide who revealed Nixon recordings sends message to Cassidy Hutchinson

Spend a little time to listen to her talk about being inspired by Butterfield and finding the courage to do the right thing.

[ariadne0614]

35. Thank you!

[Ocelot II]

42. Even Butterfield didn't reveal the existence of the tapes until he had to testify

to the Senate committee, but he told the truth because he knew he had to and it was the right thing to do. That testimony is what finally brought Nixon down. He was a Republican who worked for Nixon. So if we follow the reasoning of some other posters relating to Cassidy Hutchinson, we must also hate Butterfield because he was a Republican and all Republicans are bad, and why did he work for bad Nixon in the first place, and why didn't he tell anybody about the tapes when he first knew about them instead of having to have it dragged out of him by the committee? The only similarly bad thing Butterfield didn't do is write a book, at least not until much later, but he wasn't an out of work, broke 24-year-old. I don't know if Butterfield ever got death threats, but even Nixon's goons weren't as brainlessly violent as TFG's goons.

[MadameButterfly]

55. All the President's Men essentially ended with the discovery of the tapes

which they learned about from Alexander Butterfield. It's because of Woodward and Bernstein that he even testified. You can call him a reluctant witness for not coming forward earlier. But with the reporters, and the commitee, he told the truth.

[CTyankee]

61. I agree. I'm old enough to remember it that way.

[bigtree]

54. I'm stuck on the fact that she initially lied twice to investigators to protect Trump

...and I'm loath to give the benefit of the doubt to her because I doubt she decided to tell the truth willingly.

I'm certain prosecutors pressured her to the point where she knew she couldn't sustain her lies any longer, and saw an opportunity to save herself and aggrandize herself off of the whole thing in the process.

I don't think she has a divine right to make big money, nor do I believe it's some virtue to profit off of a corrupt WH she, at least initially, defended.

[Ocelot II]

69. She lied because the Trump lawyer told her to.

She had no money to pay an independent lawyer, and there were veiled threats and promises.

"If you want to know at the end, we'll let you know, but we're not telling people where funding is coming from right now," she said he told her. "Don't worry, we're taking care of you. Like, you're never going to get a bill for this, so if that's what you're worried about."

She also told the committee that Passantino had told her that it was fine to deflect certain questions by simply saying she did not recall, according to the transcript.

She described efforts by the lawyer to shape her testimony, telling her after one practice session not to read "anything about this on the internet."

"He said, 'Again, Cass, like, just trust me on this. I'm your lawyer. I know what's best for you. The less you remember, the better. Don't read anything to try to jog your memory. Don't try to put together timelines,"' she described him as saying. https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/12/22/cassidy-hutchinson-january-6-trump-lawyer

[bigtree]

74. that doesn't make her a hero, it makes her a perjurer protecting Trump

...she's not a child.

She made the decision, herself, on what to tell investigators, no matter what advice she was given.

That's such a lame excuse, and it's just disgusting that she can't take responsibility for her own conduct without trying to make it look like she was forced to lie.

And I'm not going to give a lot of credence to what she wrote in her own defense. I can think for myself, and I'm not prone to gaslighting.

[wryter2000]

144. Malcolm missed the boat on this one

That young woman isn’t faking anything

[inthewind21]

11. He's spot on

She's an opportunist. And clearly, it's paying off for her.

[gab13by13]

16. She looked at the opportunity to get death threats

and said, I'm all in for that.

Would you have the courage to take on Trump and his Nazi Magats?

It was reported in Mitt Romney's book that the reason Republican Senators didn't vote to indict Trump was because they were afraid for their safety and the safety of their families.

[Ocelot II]

19. I'm getting pretty pissed off at some of these people dragging on her,

and I'm wondering whether how many of them would be ready to face up to the likelihood of harassment and death threats if they spoke out. I don't know if I could have done it, and certainly not when I was only 24. It took massive cojones to do what she did, and I suspect a fair amount of the proceeds of her book will be used to pay for security.

[gab13by13]

31. In my younger days I spoke truth to power

protecting the pristine watershed in our small town, people wanted to strip for coal and frac for gas on our watershed. I got elected to brough council because I spoke out at a council meeting. Let me tell you, in my small town, I got death threats, and a goon squad sat right behind my chair at every council meeting. I did not back down because I had the townspeople backing me up just like we need to back up what Cassidy Hutchinson did. I only got a small taste of what she must be going through.

[Trust_Reality]

106. Thank you for this.

[obamanut2012]

58. I am, too

Especially people on here.

[bigtree]

70. when the FBI questions you, you tell them the truth

...not half truths, or incomplete truths, the whole truth.

Not doing so is perjury. Cassidy Hutichinson was initially willing to perjure herself to protect Trump, two different occasions when questioned by investigators, by her own admission.

That wouldn't have gone unnoticed by investigators and they more than likely told her they intended to treat her as a hostile witness if she didn't come clean.

Her good girl act today is rich, given her past behavior.

Heaping scorn on those who refuse to give a Trump loyalist who lied under threat or prosecution to protect Trump AFTER Jan.6 is a curious position to take on a Democratic board, given how difficult it's been to bring Trump to this point of actual charges and how much support for that people here have expressed for yers and years now.

I'd think there would be a little more consideration for actual Democrats defending justice in response to the absolute unchecked lawlessness of the Trump WH Hutchinson, the unabashed republican, served with enthusiasm and commitment, until she didn't.

But here we are with scorn heaped on good people here for telling the truth about her.

[Ocelot II]

73. ALL of the people who testified against TFG at the 1/6 hearing were Republicans.

I guess we can throw out their testimony because of that? There wouldn't have been a report that went to DoJ and there probably wouldn't have been a special prosecutor or multiple criminal charges against Trump without all those Republicans, and especially Cassidy Hutchinson, and Nixon wouldn't have resigned but for Republican WH employees Butterfield and Dean, but never mind them, they are Republicans and we should only ever believe honest Democrats like Bob Menendez.

[bigtree]

81. no needs to laud republicans who decide to tell the truth

Last edited Wed Sep 27, 2023, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

...it's their own obligation.

The consequence for lying is prosecution. The attorneys whose testimony forms the base of the charges were coerced by prosecutors, and then the courts who stripped their privilege and ordered them to testify.

Anyone looking on either decided to resist the FBI, or protect their freedom by telling the truth.

I'm more than certain that was Hutchinson's primary motivation, as well. It didn't happen in a vacuum. Her recanting came after questioning, not before.

It's not courageous, it's the same self-preservation that had Hutchinson calculating at the start to follow the Trump lawyers and withhold information from the FBI.


What's more likely? Republicans telling the truth because they think Dems will go easy on their past, or republicans telling the truth because they see people getting prosectued for lying?

[Ocelot II]

82. Same with Alexander Butterfield and John Dean, then.

[bigtree]

84. why so obtuse

...are you aware that John Dean initially advised Nixon to coverup? Is that insignificant to you that he was Nixon's close aide, involved in much more of that WH than just folding to protect his freedom in the end?

John Dean is a good man who has distinguished himself since then, but that was 1972. My attitude then was that he'd BETTER tell the truth. I didn't feel any need to develop some affinity for Dean. I saw the entire Nixon WH as a sham. We were protesting the war.

"I hated to be the guy who had to tell of the Watergate tapes, Butterfield says."

Really?

"I hated to be the guy who had to tell about the tapes. But I saw these guys I really liked and admired going off to jail."

Really.

[Ocelot II]

89. I watched the hearings too, and I know what Dean and Butterfield did

both before and after they testified. And I was also protesting the war. But I see no point in dragging on someone who tells the truth, regardless of their motivation. Some people keep lying, hoping the truth won't come out. Stellar Democrat Bob Menendez comes to mind, along with a fair number of Trump cronies who are still lying.

[bigtree]

90. she's not so much being dragged

...as much as her defenders won't tolerate ANY mention of her past affiliations, her lying to investigators to protect Trump, or her continued affiliation and identification with a party which would welcome Trump back to the WH in a heartbeat.

The scorn heaped on good Democrats for pointing these things out, all the while defending this former Trump loyalist, is just amazing in its elevation of this republican over Democratic voices and opinion.

Maybe people here should take more heed of what stalwart Democrats are saying, instead of trashing them to defend this erstwhile Trumper.

[Trust_Reality]

120. And when the President of the United States tells you (even indirectly) to

experience a bit of poor memory...

[LiberalFighter]

95. Especially when she might have to face insurrectionists that could have taken her life.

[Trust_Reality]

112. She found herself in the middle of the "family", that is, the Trump led mobster family.

I'm glad she is still alive.

[moniss]

111. So many people claiming what they

would have done may never have faced the question of extreme personal sacrifice in order to do the right thing or going along in order to protect a paycheck etc.

[ariadne0614]

37. +1 n/t

[MadameButterfly]

65. if this is our attitude toward the people

who have come forward and told the truth, at risk to their lives, how do we expect others to come forward?

It's ok to benefit from doing the right thing. She was inspired by Butterfield's book, and her book might inspire another 50 years down the road. Artists, writers create art about, politicans speak of, issues they care about--and they also expect to get paid. Need to get paid to keep doing the work. It isn't one or the other.

I don't begrudge her the benefits of her role in all this, nor blame her for having to go through a process to get there.
She was after all a Maga, not a DUer. She challenged her whole world when she did this.

[bigtree]

86. I'll tell you how

...you prosecute the perjurers.

That'll send them running to tell the truth to investigators.

[MadameButterfly]

129. hard to do if people like Cassidy don't come forward

so you know who is perjuring themselves. And you'll never get as much out of someone from threats like that as from someone like her who has a conscience and really wants to help.

[bigtree]

130. mollycoddling republicans to get them to tell the truth?

...you think they care one bit if Democrats praise them?

What do you believe is more likely to induce republicans to tell the truth to investigators?

Democrats praising Hutchinson, or the threat of a perjury conviction?

[LiberalFighter]

97. She was dealing with something she never thought would happen.

If she knew she would be put in that position she might never have worked in the federal govt.

I would rather have more like her in the federal government than people like Trump or Mark Meadows.

[peachpit24]

124. Truth

I'm glad she helped with the truth, but I have no respect for any woman that enabled Trump all those years. She knew what he was and how he talked about women, even during the campaign. But she still liked being around him.

[MadameButterfly]

128. she was very young

at that age most people are heavily influenced by their parents' politics. Her Dad was an avid Trumper who was angry when she wanted a non-Trump lawyer.

She was likely surround by Maga-world and wasn't as aware of his downside as we Duers are, or as enlightened about how women should be treated.

She worked in the White House for less than a year.

[peachpit24]

145. Truth

I imagine she went to college. She wasn't a child. He told everyone what he was. I have 2 daughters and 3 college age grand daughters. I can't imagine wanting them around someone like him because of politics.

[AntivaxHunters]

12. She's a Republican grifter

Just like ALL Republicans are.

[gab13by13]

14. She is an American hero who should get the most credit

if our democracy is preserved.

[inthewind21]

15. Not even close

But, to each their own.

[gab13by13]

18. Do you have any experience speaking truth to power

and then getting death threats for doing the right thing? I did, and let me tell you I spent many sleepless nights, yes, I got death threats.

Unless you have been there you haven't a clue.

[inthewind21]

25. You

have no clue about me. So you can dispense with the holier than though BS.

[Trust_Reality]

116. I'm getting the impression there are quite a few disrupters on this site these days.

[Paladin]

163. It does have kind of a 2016 feel to it, doesn't it?

Pretty damn sad...

[obamanut2012]

60. Yes, she is

[MorbidButterflyTat]

103. But...but...

...isn't she just so pretty?

White Knight Syndrome. It's real.

[AntivaxHunters]

26. No she's not

She's an opportunist who opposes the right's of women like me. She's fascist trash who is at odds with her boss & some of the people who surround him.

[ariadne0614]

38. She's right up there, for sure.

[Snooper9]

83. ROFLMAO

[yardwork]

88. What?! Really?!

No.

[Ocelot II]

17. Would you have had the guts, at the age of 24, to do what she did, knowing how vindictive Trump is?

People who criticize him get death threats. She had to go into hiding, FFS! Are all whistleblowers suspect if they write about their experiences? Do you hate Alexander Butterfield and John Dean, too, who blew open the whole Watergate plot? Have you even noticed that all the people who've been testifying against Trump are Republicans?

[gab13by13]

21. Trump has no legal defense to prove his innocence in court

so he has to trash witnesses' character. There seems to be a boat load of people here helping him out.

[arthritisR_US]

30. In this thread the only responses I applaud

whole heartedly have been yours, thank you!

[gab13by13]

32. I am waiting to get alerted on.

[arthritisR_US]

62. If they are, it will be a petty move only.

[calimary]

101. There are some things that need to be said.

I’m still stuck on her statements about having a crush on him. At least she finally came around, on that part, anyway.

[Ocelot II]

151. I suspect that "crush" had something to do with the fact

that her father had the same kind of personality, per her book. Some daddy issues there - she may have become accustomed to crude, dominant men like her father and Trump. Amateur psychology, sure, but people accustomed to authoritarian types seem to be attracted in some way to him.

[calimary]

152. I'm no expert either, but how ANYBODY could have a "daddy issue"

about trump is hard to imagine! AllI’ve got is “ICK!”

[Ocelot II]

153. Eww, me either, but his own kids obviously do.

[Ocelot II]

33. Isn't that something? People on DU using the same language against her

and other witnesses that TFG uses. WTF? Why is she being dragged for telling the truth? Alexander Butterfield worked for Nixon and he didn't tell anybody about the secret tapes until he had to testify to the Senate committee, but he told the truth because he knew he had to. His testimony is what finally brought Nixon down. But I guess we have to hate him too because he was a Republican and he didn't tell anybody about the tapes until he had to testify.

[ariadne0614]

40. +1 n/t

[inthewind21]

22. Oh please

And, I wouldn't have needed guts, I would have had better sense than to work for the likes of Trump in the first place. But hey, if you want to view grafter republicans as "Great American Hero's" knock yourself out. And yes, I noticed the rats are running for high ground. Have you ever noticed that none did until their asses were on the line and they were in legal jeopardy? Now there's some profiles in courage! But hey, buy my book!

[Beaverhausen]

45. If it wasn't for her testimony I don't think Jack Smith would have opened his investigation

She put herself in danger by testifying and again now with her book.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

108. Oh that's hilarious!

She put herself in danger with her book??

Seems like she could have used a pseudonym and not splashed herself all over the media hawking trashy gossip if it was so very dangerous.

Hoo boy!

[Beaverhausen]

121. A pseudonym?

are you high? Who would have taken that seriously?

Yeah, I get that she still claims to be a republican but I'm guessing you missed her interview with Maddow the other night when she said what all other republicans should be saying about how the party should stop being the party of trump.

Supposedly other republicans in congress also hate trump but none of them have the courage to stand up to him the way she is.

But go on and think what you want about her.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

131. Thanks, I will

You said she put herself in "danger" with her book. Obviously the lure of best selling riches outweighed her fear of danger.

And I remember not so long ago, a book titled, "A Warning," by "Anonymous, A Senior t**** Administration Official."

https://www.amazon.com/Warning/dp/1538718464/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3V3QN6HDZ9ZTK&keywords=anonymous&qid=1695840379&s=books&sprefix=anonymous%2Cstripbooks%2C142&sr=1-2

It has close to 11,000 ratings on Amazon. So there's your answer to who would have taken it seriously, especially since she is apparently now in danger.

No, I'm not high at the moment but I wish I was.

[obamanut2012]

59. No, she isn't

[MorbidButterflyTat]

102. +1

[Autumn]

140. You got that right. Some of the same people lauding her will trash AOC when she does something

they don't like.

[JI7]

24. I don't think right now is the time to criticize her

we need to focus on Trump and making sure he doesn't get into office again plus all the other things he needs to be held accountable for.

I think the time to focus on her and others is when this problem has gone away and we can look back and discuss these things.

Right now what she says needs to be heard .

[ariadne0614]

28. Wild speculation is rampant on this thread.

I wonder how many speculators watched all three MSNBC interviews (Rachel, Lawrence, and MJ) from beginning to end. Call me credulous, but in my heart I grok an awesome evolutionary leap in one so young. She’s the first to admit she’s still working on her own culpability.

As much as I love Malcolm, I wish he’d done his homework on this one, but he was probably busy helping to save Ukraine and democracy in other ways.

[gab13by13]

43. She even apologized for being a part of the J6 insurrection.

She said that she will live with that the rest of her life.

[ariadne0614]

53. Exactly

After watching her interviews, it’s impossible to imagine casting the first stone. Looking in the mirror would be intolerable.

[True Dough]

36. I wonder if she has a political career in mind?

I wouldn't be surprised. She wouldn't get elected in 2024 because there are still too many wackadoodles pulling the strings in the ReThuglican party. But if they can ever get back on a track veering towards being somewhat sane, someone like Hutchinson could emerge as a new generation of leadership. That may not be a bad thing.

[gab13by13]

41. I have one last thing to say

Trump's lawyers will say many of the same things that have been said here in defense of Trump. She was just a grifter out to make money from writing a book. She was fucking near broke when she testified, no job, behind in payments, put the white jacket she wore testifying before the J6 committee on her credit card. Yeah, the only person from Trump's White House who had the guts to stand up to him and she gets bashed at DU.

I am done, carry on.

[rzemanfl]

46. I would rec this response if I could. I think that is a DU4 feature. n/t

[Ocelot II]

47. That's exactly what the Trumpers are already saying about her.

Grifter, liar, opportunist. I'm embarrassed for DU.

[ariadne0614]

51. Me too--if only Malcolm had done his homework. It isn't like him to be so careless.

I see a big pile of dirty laundry that needs attention. Over and out.

[bigtree]

50. accusing people who disagree with you of some kind of similarity to Trump defenders

...is really the last refuge of folks without an argument or defense.

She stood up LATE, and LIED to investigators at least TWO TIMES before she decided to tell the truth. That's perjury, and she was more than likely advised of that by the SC prosecutors and changed her tune because of that pressure.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who lied to protect Trump at least two times at the risk of perjury charges is really something. I won't say what.

WaPo:

"In her September testimony, Hutchinson described struggling with the opposing forces at play: her belief that she did not tell the truth in her first two interviews —"

"DID NOT TELL THE TRUTH IN HER FIRST TWO INTERVIEWS."

[Ocelot II]

52. The lawyer Trump hired for her instructed her to lie.

According to the J6 report, “the lawyer had advised the witness that the witness could, in certain circumstances, tell the Committee that she did not recall facts when she actually did recall them.”

“When the witness raised concerns with her lawyer about that approach,” according to the summary, the lawyer said, “They don’t know what you know, [witness]. They don’t know that you can recall some of these things. So you saying ‘I don’t recall’ is an entirely acceptable response to this.”

“The lawyer instructed the client about a particular issue that would cast a bad light on President Trump: ‘No, no, no, no, no. We don’t want to go there. We don’t want to talk about that,’” the report said.

[bigtree]

56. she's either a delicate flower or a rock

...according to her defenders.

"In her September testimony, Hutchinson described struggling with the opposing forces at play: her belief that she did not tell the truth in her first two interviews — which had been conducted in February and March — versus her fear of the repercussions that would ensue from what she called “Trump world” if she testified more candidly."

Not exactly a profile in courage, at least initially.

I'm pretty much done with lauding republicans for telling the truth, what most people do without hesitation.

She also feared investigators, because of her lies.

[Autumn]

75. So she made a choice to willingly lie. Too bad she wasn't sworn in to tell the truth of what she

knew about the man the committee was investigating.

[ProfessorGAC]

141. You've Mentioned That Multiple Times

I don't see how that is a defense.
Nearly everyone knows that lying to investigators is a terrible idea and would not follow said advice, unless:
• They as dumb as a box of rocks, or;
• They were a true believer looking for any way to protect the target.
Neither of those seems admirable.
She ADMITS she lied. That is not in dispute. The truth telling apeears to have begun after the subpoena. Not wanting to perjure one's self doesn't strike me as a profile in courage.

[Ocelot II]

148. And I'll mention it once again. The specific lie she was instructed to tell

was that she didn't remember certain things that she did remember, and that is what she said at her taped 1/6 depositions. She voluntarily came forward and testified to the committee, this time live, after consulting with a non-Trump lawyer who opened a back-channel with Liz Cheney, and after a conversation with Alexander Butterfield. She would never have had to testify to the committee again because it's almost impossible to challenge the lie that she didn't remember things, but she volunteered to testify live, not because she was subpoenaed or was concerned about perjury.

[ProfessorGAC]

150. And We Disagree

You are still proferring an opinion. I did the same. They are in conflict.
And, I'll leave it at that.

[obamanut2012]

63. 100% agree with you --the attacks against her here are shocking

I guess I should have figured it would happen, but Jesus.

And, I 100% think without her testimony during Prime Time on live TV, we would not have Jack Smith.

[housecat]

109. So far she has been good, and there is no evidence to the contrary. Let her be.

[librechik]

162. well said. But I believe young folks under 30 don't always know

what their political stripe is yet. Her history was Republican, but this godawful experience could change her mind eventually.


She has no reason to apologize for selling her book with a juicy detail about a vile creature like Giuliani. Even if that was the intent (unproved)

And as others have pointed out, we don't know if the J6 committee was told this earlier. They had a lot on their plate.

[ALBliberal]

48. I have high regard for her. She's courageous. What if

she hadn’t spoken up? Where would we be? And now she’s slammed from the right and the left.

[MontanaMama]

49. I'm willing to see how this plays out

and watch what Cassidy Hutchinson does next. I give her a lot of credit for breaking ranks with the fascists and telling the truth. I also believe that without her, we wouldn’t have gotten Jack Smith. At 24 years old, she showed a lot of courage and strength especially with her dad working against her and advising her against her own best interests. That’s hard stuff. I don’t think I would have done that at her young age.

I’d like to think that when we know better, we should do better and maybe she is doing just that. I don’t think she should be drawn and quartered at this point. Why can’t we give credit where it is due?

[obamanut2012]

64. Well said, Mama

[Bayard]

67. I agree

Even if she faltered at first, she ultimately did the right thing and opened a big floodgate. I know when I was 24, I was still trying to figure out which way was up. Of course she didn't want to come forward initially. trump and his goons are vicious.

I'm betting it wasn't her idea to write a book. Someone came to her and said--here's how to be less broke. When all this was going on, she couldn't even pay her rent.

[MontanaMama]

76. Yes.

I would be willing to bet she is not hirable in politics at this time. Rethugs see her as a traitor and Dems don’t trust her. She has a right to find a way to pay rent without working at a friggin’ Walmart.

When I heard what a jerk her father is, it tugged at my heart. My dad was my hero. He was my North Star and he modeled integrity every day. It has to be incredibly painful to have a father like hers.

[emulatorloo]

93. Thanks Mama.

[MayReasonRule]

157. Credit Where Credit Is Due: Hutchinson Is An Accessory Before & After The Fact

Hutchinson has reiterated that she still considers herself a Republican in the mold of Senator Mitt Romney and Ronald Reagan.

The G.O.P. is fascist through and through. Nat-C or Nazi no matter the name their evil depravity's always the same. Those that support the same are the same. To be a registered Republican is to be a registered fascist.

Hutchinson is a registered Republican, hence Hutchinson is a registered fascist.
I laud reasoned progressives. Hutchinson is neither. Hutchinson is an opportunist positioning herself as a key player within the delusional maelstrom of America's fascist party.

Hutchinson aided and abetted fascism before, during the commission of, and after the fact.
Grasping her pearls while remaining a fascist does not lend credence to her soundness of mind, nor her humanity.

TLDR: Cassidy Hutchinson used to be a Nat-C Fascist Republican, she still is but she used to be too...

[MontanaMama]

165. I respectfully disagree.

We shall see where this and she goes from here.

[MayReasonRule]

166. Here's To Me Being 100% Wrong Regarding Hutchinson!!

Second order changes are extraordinarily rare. Perhaps she's always been doubtful and is in process of embracing that doubt. In that rare and peculiar case she is indeed on a path towards reason.

May it be so!!!

[Caliman73]

66. What will Malcolm Nance's criticism affect in the long run?

I am not understanding this argument about "not criticizing Hutchinson" or "not recognizing that she is a hero". I certainly understand the reaction to people who are "all or nothing" on the situation. I don't understand however, why anyone that criticizes some aspect of the situation is "wrong".

People are complicated and sometimes they make the wrong choices for seemingly right reasons. Sometimes they make the right choices for the wrong reasons. It is okay to criticize people based on information that is available. Not all criticism is bad.

George Washington is in a consensus of historians, one of the best Presidents in US History and set the model for what a President should be and do. He was also a slave owner and by many accounts, did some real dickish things. He can be both. He can be seen as the Hero of the Revolutionary War, and a jerk who wanted vast swaths of land on which he could continue to have a plantation and own people.

As long as the criticism has some sort of validity, it needs to be dealt with. I didn't hear the criticism so I can't say whether it was reasonable, but Nance is typically not unreasonable in his framing of a situation.

[The Grand Illuminist]

77. Hutchinson is still esoterically evil.

Last edited Wed Sep 27, 2023, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Unlike Trump who is both esoterically and exoterically evil.

[Ocelot II]

78. What does that even mean?

[Celerity]

115. They misspelt 'esoterically' ?

[The Grand Illuminist]

142. My bad.

Damn spellcheckers.

[obamanut2012]

80. OMG she is not evil

Good lord, this place sometimes.

[Ocelot II]

85. Really!

It's devolved to a completely us vs. them, Manichaean mentality according to which all Republicans are Evil and all Democrats are Good. No Democrats ever do anything bad; no Republicans ever do anything good. All Democrats will go to Heaven and all Republicans are consigned to the fires of Hell. If you ever worked for a Republican politician, no matter how briefly, you are irredeemably evil and anything you ever do afterwards will not wash away your mortal sin. You are beyond redemption. If you try to mend the errors of your evil ways by confessing to the authorities it doesn't matter because you should have done it voluntarily a long time ago. I cast you out, unclean spirit, along with every Satanic power of the enemy, every specter from hell, and all your fell companions! Or something like that.

Seriously, this is nuts. I'm going to go buy her book now.

[emulatorloo]

91. Yeah. Excoriating witnesses who testify against Trump and are helping Smith and Willis

build airtight cases against him makes zero sense to me. Does half of DU wish they had shut up and let Trump get away with it?

Decided to get her book as well. Something good to read while taking a little break. Hoping her security detail is strong.

[bigtree]

92. no, I want truth

...I don't believe in lauding republicans, erstwhile Trump loyalists, for protecting their hides and telling the truth.

I also don't believe we need to mollycoddle them into telling investigators the truth. That's what we have perjury laws for.

And people expressing their opinions isn't doing jack shit against ANY prosecution of Trump.

[obamanut2012]

104. Well said, and guess what?

My wife and I put our names on the waiting list at the Library instead of buying a Kindle copy. I just bought a Kindle copy because of this odd vitriol directed at someone who did the right thing. She is a kid from Virginia who did not go to a prestige college, nor has a "prestige" family, and who had an abusive, MAGA dad. And who was treated badly by her employers.

If in ten years she is working for Ted Cruz as a non-college intern, then yes. But I am betting she goes the way of Nicole Wallace.

Oh, and without her testimony, I firmly believe we wouldn't be talking about Jack Smith right now.

[Doc Sportello]

107. Well said

Would the J6 committee have been as compelling without Cheney and Kinzinger on it? No, but some here have this more Democratic than thou attitude they lay on anyone who isn't pure enough for them. That's not how politics works. Nicolle Wallace has done a great job taking on dump but you still get posters her who attack her for "giving us Palin" as one wrote. I guess they never read Game Change or saw the series. She didn't even vote for McCain because Palin was on the ticket! But she's still evil, according to some.

[housecat]

110. This isn't even a debate. It is indeed nuts.

[Celerity]

127. Hear hear!

I would make one slight modification.

Some of the ones you describe here:

Manichaean mentality according to which all Republicans are Evil and all Democrats are Good. No Democrats ever do anything bad; no Republicans ever do anything good. All Democrats will go to Heaven and all Republicans are consigned to the fires of Hell.

do make exceptions to that rule when it comes to Sanderite/Squad types, and the Rethugs in Dems clothing (who were actual Rethugs and/or were or still are pushing RW shites ometimes) who slate them and/or run against those progs.

The progs are bad and the ex Rethugs are now the good guys, who saw the evil of their ways (and previous party label).

Archetypal example of all that is the 2020 AOC primary against the oh so problematic centre to centre right ex Rethug/new Dem Michelle Caruso-Cabrera, who just months before was still flogging her RW claptrap book advocating for the abolishment of multiple federal agencies and cabinet level departments, along with the privitisation of Social Security, etc etc.

The types I am describing were all over that race, sliding from AOC challenger to AOC challenger (remember the mighty Badrun Khan, who was surely going to rid us of that troublesome AOC?, lololol) until coalescing behind MCC. Many predicted the imminent destruction of AOC at the hands of their newfound proggy-slayer champion, MCC, but alas, AOC crushed her 74.6 per cent to 18.2 per cent.

I am sure some tears of frustration and moderate rage were shed by the anti AOC crowd that night.

I raise a glass of condolence...

Skål!

[housecat]

117. Why are some critics so positive about things we really do not know yet. Give her a chance.

[Recycle_Guru]

79. Namce should stick to national security matters

[yardwork]

87. I can't think of anything more national security related than J6.

Maybe your post was sarcasm?

[Recycle_Guru]

119. He is dissing a low level Trump staffer who came forward to testify

better targets than that for him

[MorbidButterflyTat]

132. Hello?

She was the aide to Mark Meadows, t****'s chief of staff!

Low level staffer, NO.

Funny, tho, someone so young given such responsibility. I wonder why. Hmmm.

[LiberalFighter]

94. I agree. It is also up to the Jan 6 committee to figure out questions needed to ask.

Personally, I think the committee did a good job and got what was needed.

[drray23]

96. I will just point out that she is a die hard republican.

She was all in on the Trump policies and administration until it
became untenable and there actually could be consequences.

Typical republican who is devoid of any empathy until and unless it affects them. She admitted that she admired Trump, still think highly of Meadows, etc.

So apparently, January 6th was a bridge too far. However, Trump separating babies from their immigrant parents, insulting disabled people, abusing women, naming judges on the supreme court who later overturned Roe vs Wade and a myriad of other well-known things that occurred before she was at the white house was just fine for her.


She is a smart young woman, it's evident in the interviews. She realized that she could take advantage of this situation, get out of legal jeopardy, write a book and make millions.

[wryter2000]

99. If she hadn't given her testimony to the J6 committee

He'd be right, but Malcolm is just wrong on this.

[SunSeeker]

123. +1

[llashram]

105. as ms Hutchinson

is still a committed Republican, I applaud her testimony and making the talk show-pseudo-news cycle to help everyone understand the mindset of the coup plotters. I still would NOT trust her choice of the vote if or when DeSantis makes a comeback and becomes the nominee of the rethug Party.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

113. White Knight Syndrome

is real.

[elleng]

114. Sorry to hear this from Malcolm Nance,

whose points of view I've respected until now.

[Liberal In Texas]

122. I respect him more than this woman who still professes to be a repub.

Someone should ask her her views on freedom of choice or gerrymandering or gun control, just to name a few, and lets see if everyone still thinks she's some icon to admire.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

133. Yes

[MOMFUDSKI]

118. Butterfield accidentally told the truth because he had

to answer a question. Cassidy didn’t know that using an attorney paid for by orange guy wasn’t smart. And Woodward knew EXACTLY what he was holding back for his book which caused the death of how many people? It is all about priorities.

[aggiesal]

126. I believe if news worthy activity is withheld for a book, ...

then that's a problem.
Saw this with Bob Woodward when he withheld that Pendejo45 admitted that Covid was serious during an interview, but then Pendejo45 decided to politicized Covid and claiming that it was similar to the flu.
About 6-9 months later, Woodward revealed this information. How many people died between finding out and releasing this info?

So yes, if Cassidy Hutchinson withheld pertinent info, then reveals it in a book, criticism is warranted.

[rzemanfl]

138. Two things-

1) Once she decided against "not recalling" she was responding to questions under oath. She did not control the questions.
2) The only pertinent thing I've seen in this thread that people think was withheld was the hanging comments from Drumpf, which the committee had some information about from other sources. They could have asked, and maybe did, but not on national TV.

If someone finds something significant in her book no one knew about, or she lied about under oath my view will change.

[aggiesal]

149. So I didn't accuse her of anything ...

All I said was, IF news worthy activity is withheld for a book, then that's a problem.
... if Cassidy Hutchinson withheld pertinent info, then reveals it in a book, criticism is warranted.

I haven't read her book, so I don't know if she did any of this.
If Malcolm Nance believes Cassidy Hutchinson was sitting on information in order to sell a book, he should lay his cards on the table.

[Trust_Reality]

134. I'm very disappointed to see so many cynical comments and perspectives on this thread.

How about a little understanding?

Her father became a rabid MAGA. What was he before Trump, he the father who would have guided and influenced her early years?

She has claimed to be a Republican dating back to the Reagan era. That was before she was born. So who indoctrinated her? Obviously it would have been her future MAGA father.

She was interested in public service in the political arena. Career advancement opportunities can bend the career arc of a person away from the original goal. Her job opportunities were very prestigious, especially for such a young woman. Many people do not realize their career, or life, is off track until they have a mid-life crisis.

She was working in an arena of power hungry men and Trump's mobster mentality. Furthermore, Trump is a master con man. At least a third, perhaps almost half of the entire country have been conned by him - "love him!"

Her parents have been divorced for quite some time. It appears her mother is the special support person in her life. In fact, there was a time when her mother called her and told her to turn on Lawrence O'Donnell.

The man from the Nixon era who, under questioning about the existence of tape recordings, was extremely hesitant to tell the truth, long pause. Source: video clip. She read his book three times (in a matter of hours, I think) as she was trying to deal with her honor(truth) versus loyalty dilemma.

More personal, I favored Nixon as I reached voting age. I grew up. My wife has two cousins who were talking a couple of years ago. Carol asked Sid, "Why are you a Republican?" Sid: "I don't know, I just always have been."

I think we all know that Hillary worked on the campaign of Barry Goldwater, a then far right Republican.

For God's sake, give Cassidy a break.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

135. Sorry

[obamanut2012]

136. What is that supposed to mean?

[obamanut2012]

137. Well said, and 100% agree

Guess who the first pols I voted for? Reagan, Jesse Helms, and Howard Coble. I had no idea about politics, and listened to my then very wingnut Dad. I grew an independent brain very soon after, and my dad did about 2o years later.

[Torchlight]

147. I'm just glad she came through.

I'm not very good good at pinpointing motivation from people I've never met, so I can't really speak with authority as to why she did or did not do it earlier or later.

[MayReasonRule]

159. Rats Jump From Sinking Ship - More At Five...

[ecstatic]

155. Change his tune? um... no. It's his opinion. He doesn't have to change anything

Listen, I applaud and appreciate Cassidy coming forward because clearly it takes a certain type of person to get the attention of the American people... But let's be clear: Cassidy worked for the most incompetent, hateful, despicable troll in recent American history, and she did this, not as a child, but as a grown, college-educated woman.